Who you believe "invented" the airplane?

[AeroBoero]

This need to start somewhere and here it goes ; just want some opinions here of my Brazilians mates and other people!

Here is the One Million (half to you in Brazil!) Question :

Who invented the airplane?

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The Wright Brothers in 1903 ?

Santos Dumont in 1906 ?
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Please no heated coments. Just a simple plain question , to verify in which one does the genaral people (down there) believe.

For the ones that haven't ever heard of the second one , Santos Dumont , here goes a little story (inacurate , but gives a good understanding)

The Americans says that teh Wright Brothers invented , or better , made the first flight in 1903 in North Carolina.
The Brazilians (and some of the French for that matter) , believe that the "father of aviation" was/is Santos Dumont.

The point here is that , in 1906 , he lifted , flew and landed what we know today as an airplane. Had self propulsion (no need to be "catapulted" , controls like todays crafts (altough it was a little odd in design) so it took-off , flew for some time (very short) and landed again. That was the 14-Bis. Untill that time , no other project similar to that one was presented or made public (as far as I know , so please correct me if I'm wrong). That flight was recorded , by the "Aeroclub de France"(?), was filmed too and had a great crowd watching it.

I know the americans will not even think about others than the Wright Bros. as the fathers of aviation. But I'm sure some of them already heard what I just wrote over that. And in the frankly , I'm just glad that we have the airplane today or I would be on ships today.. :)(my second option in life).

So please , I would like to hear some opinions , and nothing like "go f*** your self , or , loonie". Just an opinion , that's all.

So let's the debate begin!

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[Tor]

Who's the Wright brothers? Ellehammer invented the aeroplane :) :) :)

Tor

[Tor]

No seriously don't you think Santos Dumont's work was based on the knowledge achieved by the Wright brothers?

Tor

[Oldlearner]

Richard Pearse. Flew about end of March 1903 9 months before Wright brothers

from the book "The Riddle of Richard Pearse" book by Gordon Ogilvie published by AH & AW Reed Ltd 1973

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[AeroBoero]

Oldlearner ;
I didn't know about that one.
But apparently , there was another "flight" made before the Wright Bros. In Romenia , the date I can't tell (maybe someone knows this one) , two guys named Traian Vuia and Aurel Vlaicu , they have made a flight with "heavier tha air" and self propulsion craft. I don't know more than this. Any one can help here.

I not trying to disconsider the Wrights , but would be nice to know some history. For me is good already that we have the airplane today.

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[3holer]

AeroBoero

Don't believe them. Santos Dumont did it.
Everybody knows that.

[Purple Twilight]

My memory fails me but I am sure I have read about a chap who flew an 'aircraft' in the late 1880s and that there were plans afoot in the States to recognise this individual as the true father of aviation. Unlike the Wright Brothers, the flight was not captured on film. It happened in Saundersfoot, South Western Wales.

[Panama Jack]

Every country has their ego trip. When I lived in Canada and was an Air Cadet, we were taught that the first airplane flight was Alexander Graham Bell in Badeck, Nova Scotia. Nothing was ever said about the Wright Brothers. Then again, most folks in the U.S. think the Wright Brothers were the first to fly. They were of course predecessed by Otto Lillienthal (gliders) and he, by the Montgolfier Bros. (balloons)

[Grizzly Bare]

The question of who actually made the first controlled, powered, heavier than air flight will never be settled. Almost every country has at least one backyard inventor who independantly built a flying machine.
The Wright Flyer may have been crude, but the Wright´s get credit as being the first to make a commercial success out of their machine.

[AeroBoero]

Grizzly Bare ;

I know what you mean. Somehow it appears that there are a lot more "inventors" that I had ever imagined there would be. But the question of who marketed the inventions is really the "hot spot" I think.
The Wright Bros. in 1906 were still stucked with the "catapult" system. After Santos Dumont flying in Paris ( with a craft that could take-off , fly and land indenpently from any external help - read catapult).
Just to show the creative mind of the Brazilian - he was the one who "invented" the pulse watch. Nobody know that...but is just to show that he was a full time "nerd".
But his nature didn't help with "securing" the plane "invention" (at least the marketing of it).
But as always ; I cant be more happy that we HAVE airplanes - independantly of whom was the "first".



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[Grizzly Bare]

Just curious that like many other inventions and developments the airplane was simultaneously developed in many places. Remember Bell and Grey were attempting to patent the telephone independantly at exactly the same time. Maybe the aeroplane was just fated to exist, and it was inevitable that we´d end up as the luckiest men on earth.

[big buddah]

my votes in for:

Richard Pearse.

Who are the Wright brothers?

[Grizzly Bare]

Yes, he flew with ailerons before the Wrights had got airborne with wing-warping, but how did he contribute to enabling us to fly rather than have to work?

[big buddah]

well if they used ailerons first they help me not work!!

[AtRisk]

Yes, there were many flights that took place before the Wright Brothers. The "first flight" that they accomplished was a flight in an aircraft that was 100% propelled by a mechanical device (engine) all other flights had been made with gliders, peddles, flapping wings etc. Their was the first successful mechanical flight. Just to clarify that the statement "first flight" has a different meaning when you put the aspect of mechanical flight which is the primary form of flight today is the form of propulsion the Wright Brothers used....an engine

[Grizzly Bare]

No AtRisk, the Wright´s were not the first to attain controlled, engine powered flight. They were the first to develop it further and commercialise it. As Big Buddah mentions Richard Pearce from New Zealand, he flew in a controlled (with ailerons), powered heavier than air flying machine before the Wright´s, but then did nohing with his invention.

[Zed-K]

my vote is for Richard Pearce, not only did he build and fly the aircraft, he also made the engine himself, with apparently no outside help.

but then again, i guess i am biased :)

[big buddah]

boys I think we should go back to our forum we might get in a fight here?

[Grizzly Bare]

Always good to have muttonlovers over here.