Are you looking for an airline job

[Shortflyer]

Hi All

I read a thread on here 4 years ago about peoples T's & C's, and in a similar vein thought it would be good (after the reported 1500 applications for BA Cityflyer) to have a similar idea of the numbers looking for that first airline job. I was quite shocked by the level of experience not getting an assessment.
And i dont need any ribbing by those with jobs about my level of experience etc.. thanks!

Intergrated course
250 hrs
recent IR renewal
MCC and JOC.:sad:

[flylogan]

Hi Shortflyer,

If you dont mind me asking, who did you complete your integrated course with? The reason i ask is because i am currently trying to pick an FTO.

Thanks,
Fly Logan

[Shortflyer]

oh well yet again one tries to have a useful thread without subject creep and a plonker comes along to ruin it before it even got started.:D

[Callsign Kilo]

It would be very difficult to gauge how many CPL holders are awaiting their first opportunity. I mean, where do you start? With JAR, or EASA, there are countless numbers of commercial licenses issued through the various European authorities. I would say the vast majority of these are issued in combination with a ME IR. I would probably hazard a fairly even guess that most of these license holders will likely hold a MCC certificate. But who, if anyone, makes a record of CPL holders using their licenses to fly commercial aircraft for a living? (note, for a living!)

I know this does not relate specifically to your question, however you can see the difficulty faced with actually gauging how many CPL holders are still awaiting their first opportunity. There will always be those who are happy to share the fact that they haven't had a sniff of anything, however others will be more reluctant. Some will have previously failed an assessment or an interview, whilst others may have failed a TR, base training or line training. These people are out there, however you try and get them to be open about their situation. No one likes to talk about failures. Additionally, there will be those who will have let ratings lapse; whilst there will be others who have simply given up altogether. It would be interesting to know of the numbers, however I doubt we could ever find out?

[Shortflyer]

OMG another plonker!:ugh:

Listen the ba cityflyer thread had lots of people willing to share their situation who were hopefull of being called for an assessment. The T's and C's thread ran for months and gave alot of pay and conditions hrs etc information to those that wanted to read it.

So in a brave last ditch attempt, if you have the right to live and work in europe, have the neccessary license irrespective of your past and shoe size, and are looking for an airline job, in order to gain an insight to the numbers experience etc of those looking, please can you post your:

Hrs TT
HRs PIC
MCC JOC
any ratings etc

This may help those considering training in reaching a decision on whether to bother or not!

[justanotherstat]

Believe you'd get a better response in the wannabees section:ok:

I have an airline job but always looking to 'further my career', therefore

4000 Multi crew EFIS TP
2200 PIC
LTC

[CoiledString]

Shortflyer, you are never going to get close to a realistic figure with this method.
Are you hoping every person looking for a job is on pprune?.......................... Are you looking just for the currently unemployed people, or jobseekers who currently fly outside of an airline too? (I currently fly a Bizjet and am looking for an airline job)
Look for CAA license issues over the last couple of years maybe (they used to publish them)?

Might be better to have people make an educated guess at a figure.

Anyway......
4400TTish
1200PIC
EFIS/Jet type

[73addict]

Shortflyer, firstly I don't see the need to berate people by insulting them. There are always useless replies posted and are best ignored as we can all read and ignore them. Rise above it. :oh:
Anyway about your thread there have been many experience levels expressed on the cityflyer, BA and Jet2 threads. It would appear that there are certainly a large number of guys out there looking for jobs but obviously not all of them will be currently unemployed. As a cadet/newly qualified low hour your best bet seems to be Ryanair, Easy and Flybe as they all favour new recruits over experienced.
I know you are specifically looking for replies by unemployed job seekers so, I was working for Viking until recently and my experience is >3000TT with approx 2700 on the 737. I subsequently can tell you at least 40 odd experienced 737 chaps are looking for alternate employment there (although prob not all). BA are reported to have received over 1400 applications in 7 days for their recent drive (experienced). Jet2 over 2000 and counting for their current recruitment that includes rated/non-rated/experienced/low hours. Hazard a guess for Cityflyer.
Anyway hope this is somewhat useful and wish you and all other low houred people all the best in finding your first airline position.

[Callsign Kilo]

OMG another plonker!

Ohh well, so much for answering a thread to another hopeful, looking for that first break whilst he or she is trying to gauge who and what they are up against. Last time I'll be doing that.

So why don't you listen then (or is that part of your problem in the search for that ever elusive first break?) Your initial posting requested information relating to people looking for their first job. I gave you my opinion to why you may find it difficult to get an accurate figure. I won't apologise for not doing my research into the open honesty that is available in the BA Cityflyer thread - to be quite blunt, I have no interest and in the interests of clarity, I didn't for one minute perceive that your thread was Cityflyer specific. However, I am always interested in a balanced response in any thread. Not the 'ribbing' that I just received from some 250hr wonder. Plonker heh? The irony of it all!

And to conclude, if you are looking an answer to whether people should invest in training. My answer would be no, especially if they demonstrate an attitude as remarkable as your own.

[justanotherstat]

Callsign Kilo is quite right!!

And again if you are indeed looking for numbers of people looking for their first job then re-post in the wannabees section.

[PAPI-74]

The irony is, with over 3000TT myself - as have some of you guys - shortflyer has got the same chances as possibly everyone else. Sickening I know, but an unfortunate fact. I have given up 2nd guessing the machine that is Airline HR, but just hope that they keep to the old tried and tested methods of a balanced level of experience.

We all know utter garden gnomes who get jammy jobs that shouldn't be there. All we can do is hope that HR know what they are doing when fire out the PFO letters.
What the glossy adverts from the Integrated Schools won’t mention, is that unless you want to spend another 35k - after the 80+ they have mugged you for - you had better take a ticket, get a comfy chair and wait. Paying far too much for your training does not allow you to barge in and be rude.

CoiledString - why the change to the airlines?

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/James_Drummond/gardengnome.jpg

[Mr Man]

Thank god there are wannabees like shortflyer out there.............gives the ones with manners a bit of a chance.......unless he has a major change in attitude I hope he never ends up sat next to me!

[RB311]

And back in the days where selection, other than by financial status, still had a roll to play he would not have got this far...

[RVR800]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Flight%20Crew%20Licensing%20Transactions%20April%202009%20to %20March%202010.pdf

The CAA gave the CPL to 1,287 Aeroplane pilots in 2009/10 according to the
above....

Amazingly high numbers in a recession....

[CoiledString]

You have to take your hat off to FTO marketing.......... or is it chortle at people parting with 60K+ without doing any research.

[VJW]

Hi guys

I'm a little surprised at the attitude of the initial poster, but I'll put this down to frustration as to not being able to find the first job soon (ish) after training. Perhaps this would have been better on the wanabee section.

My tuppence worth, having worked in PLD for 4 years prior to joining my current airline, the amount of CPL's issued last year, minus the amount of jobs going for the year would give you the best guess as to the answer you're after. Of course, you have to minus a % that don't use their licences for the airlines, and instead go on to instructing etc. Again take off a % for the jobs available filled by some of the many experienced pilots made redundant during the recession and you'll come up with a ball park figure.

I'd hazard a guess at least around 500 fresh cadets a year, coming out of flight school and unable to find a job.

Could also be worth calling your training provide, and I'd bet my yearly salary it was oxford, just how many cadets they have coming back per year to renew the IR. That'd give you a nice % when you compare it to how many cadets actually went through their course the year before.

All the best in finding that first job, and try and wind your neck in a bit, as the majority of people on here, post to help -

VJW