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tyler_durden_80
5th Nov 2010, 01:15
Under Qualified foreign pilots flying Aussie domestic routes, an under-resourced and at breaking point ATC provider, outsourcing the maintaince of domestic carriers to foreign, cheaper options, and key decision makers, such as AJ and co, more focused on the bottom line than anything else. Anyone else see the holes starting to line up...?

Skynews
5th Nov 2010, 01:19
Training, don't forget training.
Less experienced pilots being trained by johny come lately training captain. Take a short look back in history at QF and say Ansett training pilots and there is a marked difference in most airlines/companies today.

I still feel much safer in the back of an aircraft with a big white Roo on it, as long as it is operated by QF.

FoxtrotAlpha18
5th Nov 2010, 03:14
Do you mean Australian Aviation, or Australian aviation...there is a big difference, especially to the publishers of the former!

The Green Goblin
5th Nov 2010, 04:30
What makes me laugh is apparently we are world leaders in the field :ugh:

We have barely any aerospace industry (what little there is is regulated into obscurity).

We have an ineffective regulator.

The mentality seems to be 'why you can't do something', rather than 'how can we help you achieve your goals'.

SOPS
5th Nov 2010, 05:05
Do the words.. Chicken+home+roost..mean anything here?:{

CharlieLimaX-Ray
5th Nov 2010, 05:33
But as long as the public have cheap airfares, everyone is happy!

It is a bit ironic the taxi fare from Tullamarine into the Melbourne CBD in a ten year old clapped out Falcon which is normally driven by an unskilled unwashed migrant, is always dearer than the cheap air fare Sydney to Melbourne, and why does it it cost more to park a car at Sydney Airport for a few days than the airfare!

t_cas
5th Nov 2010, 06:03
And the Melbourne cabbies are going for a 30% payrise. Guess what. They will most likely get it or cry discrimination or something similar!

Artificial Horizon
5th Nov 2010, 06:09
To be honest guys, the more 'under qualified' foreign pilots that come and fly in Australia the better. It may start to dilute this bizzarre 'we do it better than everyone else' attitude that is prominant here. All the foriegn pilots I have flown with here are anything but underqualified unless substantial overseas international jet experience is what is called underqualified.

Most of the trainers I have encountered since my return to Oz are ex-Ansett and certainly are no better than trainers I have encountered elsewhere. Outsourcing is certainly a bad idea and should be stopped and the bloody mess that is Australian ATC and Airspace needs sorting out ASAP.

Mr. Hat
5th Nov 2010, 07:16
But as long as the public have cheap airfares, everyone is happy!

It is a bit ironic the taxi fare from Tullamarine into the Melbourne CBD in a ten year old clapped out Falcon which is normally driven by an unskilled unwashed migrant, is always dearer than the cheap air fare Sydney to Melbourne, and why does it it cost more to park a car at Sydney Airport for a few days than the airfare!

Spot on my words exactly to Mr. Xenophon CharlieLimaXray.


I suspect however that the only changes we will see from the enquiry will be:

1. Increased scrutiny on pilots in simulator sessions.
2. More hoops and more jeopardy.
3. More power to CASA.
4. Populist rubbish that will appease the masses.

The big ticket items like fatigue or the corner we're painting ourselves into will be overlooked.

Today Mr. Joyce scoffed at concerns raised about offshoring of maintenance. Then last night on the 7:30 report he was talking about how Qantas had the most experienced pilots and that this is what made the difference. A week later it'll be how 200 hr pilots are just as safe as a 5000 hour pilot with the same training. Is this man feeling well or is he actually about to have some sort of a breakdown? Call an ambulance.

The truth about this industry will never come out. Its inevitable that something will go bang. Big Business, CASA, and industry power brokers will smother the truth people. Its farcical.

$59 to the Goldie? Spin the wheel - maybe your numbers up.

blow.n.gasket
5th Nov 2010, 08:17
AHH HAA, I see said the blind man.
Is that why passengers are now euphamistically referred to as PUNTERS.:ooh:

Arnold E
5th Nov 2010, 10:18
It is a bit ironic the taxi fare from Tullamarine into the Melbourne CBD in a ten year old clapped out Falcon which is normally driven by an unskilled unwashed migrant, is always dearer than the cheap air fare Sydney to Melbourne, and why does it it cost more to park a car at Sydney Airport for a few days than the airfare!That says it all.:=:=:=
Time to get out of this god forsaken industry
PS. Trouble is I dont know what else to do.:{

mustafagander
5th Nov 2010, 10:52
I think that the Swiss cheese is becoming a type of blue vein cheese and rather smelly.

qf 1
5th Nov 2010, 11:01
thats why i got out of the game,dumbing down of my trade,3 redundencys in 20 yrs,shift work,short life expendence of LAME's,i now earn 3 1/2 times as much as i did as a lame and i am my own boss:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Arnold E
5th Nov 2010, 12:00
,i now earn 3 1/2 times as much as i did as a lame and i am my own bosshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Can I get a job with you?:confused:

desmotronic
5th Nov 2010, 15:54
To be honest guys, the more 'under qualified' foreign pilots that come and fly in Australia the better.

Such as yourself no doubt Artificial Horizon. :D

Artificial Horizon
5th Nov 2010, 20:11
Hmmm, I am a Kiwi, so I guess that is foreign! 1500 hours instructing, 2000 hours Dash 8, 4000 hours Airbus of various types split between a few different countries including Australia and New Zealand. Not sure if that makes me underqualified in Oz or not.

I am just a firm believer that a bit of overseas experience helps to give you a differnent point of view and it actually should be welcomed in Australian and New Zealand aviation. Once again I agree with the sentiment of the post, a lot of the processes put in place in Australasia are down right dangerous and are setting 'someone' up to have an accident! The sooner we realise this the better.

chockchucker
5th Nov 2010, 21:55
I am just a firm believer that a bit of overseas experience helps to give you a differnent point of view and it actually should be welcomed in Australian and New Zealand aviation.


Not sure it's the 'experience' that anybody's objecting to here. More the rapid influx of inexperience into RPT flightdecks that concerns people.

stubby jumbo
5th Nov 2010, 22:27
What a great day to be holding the 90th Birthday Bash.

Bet our Ambassador at Large will be fluffing up his pillow at th Park Hyatt at the moment and rolling over when he hears this QF6 news.

No- then he'll get the wakeup call from the charming Ms Worth(less)-ooohhh is my hair in place?

"GET YOUR YANKEE ARSE DOWN HERE NOW....WE HAVE SPIN TO DO !"

This was always going to happen to a once iconic ,proud ,safety obsessed airline. Hudson Fysh must be cringing today.

All staff have witnessed the total disinterest in management towards operational safety and OH&S ......UNLESS its going to make them look good !

I and many of my colleagues have reported serious safety issues to our "management" team -then hear nothing back and worst of all next time when get back on the same kite -the same thing/noise/vibration is happening.

The Tech Crew are the only ones who listen.

Thats why I have given up ...and now only report to CASA via the anonymous email channel (which in itself should tell you something-because if "management" found out we would be keel hauled up Coward street(pardon the pun)

Safety Management by KPI's..... DOES NOT WORK IN THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY:ugh:

Its time to get out. I seriously worry about the Reason Model becoming a reality for QF.........soon:ouch:

Happy Birthday:rolleyes:

Metro man
6th Nov 2010, 06:43
It is a bit ironic the taxi fare from Tullamarine into the Melbourne CBD in a ten year old clapped out Falcon which is normally driven by an unskilled unwashed migrant, is always dearer than the cheap air fare Sydney to Melbourne, and why does it it cost more to park a car at Sydney Airport for a few days than the airfare!

That unskilled, unwashed immigrant is also earning more money than a S/E GA award pilot or a regional turboprop F/O. :ugh:

Jabiman
6th Nov 2010, 07:32
Interestingly, for the price of a taxi licence (half a million dollars) you could buy a twin engine turboprop.

Nautilus Blue
6th Nov 2010, 11:08
Anyone else see the holes starting to line up...?
Yes, particularly when those in charge are hell bent on removing as many slices as possible, and making the holes bigger. On the ATC side I now feel nothing short of significant loss of life will lead to a change for the better. Everything shot of bodies on the ground can be/has been spun, glossed over or just ignored.

kimir
6th Nov 2010, 21:44
Skynews, you wouldn't be geoff thomas would you? If you are you have to be on the Qf payroll after listening to your "expert comments" on the industry. Either that or your after cheap seats between ph and the east coast. Gushing praise makes me sick.:yuk: Aviation "experts" should pull their heads out of the sand and realise that Qantas and particularly those who work for the airline aren't benefitting from the "safest airline in the world" comments. PR and Management at Qf must love this guy. I hope he is being paid well.