QF into Esp and others??

[shirjoc]

Heard a rumour today that QF had won the tender to fly onto Esp.and other regional W.A.ports.Can anyone tell me what the go is.I have been stuck at Cloudbreak lately and have not been able to follow the news.(nothing to do with an a320 or whatever).Cheers.

[topend3]

no news I have heard, but if QF don't pick up some routes it will be a big surprise, likely that they will be competing over many of these routes however with XR

[shirjoc]

do you reckon that they or anyone for that matter would survive if two (or more) airlines were allowed to compete in most of the smaller ports (such as ESP and others) where the state govt has had a one airline policy to provide some sort of protection for the airline that gets the contract

[Continental-520]

The reality is that QF could take a loss on however many routes it needed to while competing with XR or whoever else until they muscled the competitor(s) out of the market.

After that, once they have the monopoly, they'll make money cause they can jack up the ticket prices to the extent where a typical passenger load from the particular port (such as ESP) will still break even or make money despite it not being so on other routes.

I.e. They (QF) may only break even on a flight from point A to point B with X number of tickets/pax sold at a price of $X. So, since places the WA coast towns are slightly shy on loads, they'll do ridiculously low prices to compete, then jack them up to $1.5X (for example) once they have the monopoly.

Just my opinion......as uninformed as it may be!


520.

[topend3]

I agree with Continental, and there is no way it would appear that a route like ESP with about 50,000 pax a year can support two viable operations.

The big advantage for QF is the lure of FF points and the ability to connect pax through Perth onto other services East, something XR can do but with a lesser extent on DJ...

[Seriously]

There's been nothing about qantas/qantas link getting the coastal contract from the state government, it's a package. ie Albany, Geraldton, Esperance etc all come under the same deal. Skippers have the inland deal, Skywest have the coastal deal. Apart from the fact that Qantas/Qlink aren't even operating turbo-probs in WA yet...:} I know they are apparenlty buying Network but that's still only Braz's until they can get some Dash 8s with defective undercarriage:uhoh: There won't be 2 operators on the same regional turbo-prop route in WA for a long time, not enough market.

[Boomerang_Butt]

And we all saw what happened when Skippers put the Braz and the Dash 8 up against the F50 into Geraldton & Monkey Mia. It didn't work, they didn't get the loads and adios Skippers.

Aside from the routes being a package, hisorically 2 operators don't get enough support for both to keep it viable. (Bearing in mind I think this was before the route networks were tendered for)

[Capt Claret]

And there's not enough traffic to support more than two airlines, Ansett & Australian.

And in about ten years we've lost Ansett and gained Virgin, Jetsar & Tiger.

[Jabawocky]

And Clarrie in real terms VB replaced AN, JQ stole some of QF and any extra volume by JQ and the PussyCat is bugger all, so really only population growth has happened as well as the mix has changed a bit.

The beach has the sand castles moved around a bit and maybe a bit of extra sand.

[Icarus2001]

The statistics do not seem to support your point of view...

http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2008/April/AA030_activity_at_aus_airports.gif

[Mr. Hat]

You think the mighty Q bought Network so they can fly to Nifty?

Only so long you can go before the big boys come to town.

[Continental-520]

Network don't have an ability to do RPT on their AOC. Yet.


520.

[Mr. Hat]

Great 2 hangers and great position. Just like a master chess move just waiting to come off.

[Chadzat]

Tender submission date was extended by a few months for the big Q to dot the i's and cross the t's in time. Hence why it hasn't been announced yet. :=

[topend3]

There's been nothing about qantas/qantas link getting the coastal contract from the state government, it's a package. ie Albany, Geraldton, Esperance etc all come under the same deal. Skippers have the inland deal, Skywest have the coastal deal. Apart from the fact that Qantas/Qlink aren't even operating turbo-probs in WA yet... I know they are apparenlty buying Network but that's still only Braz's until they can get some Dash 8s with defective undercarriage There won't be 2 operators on the same regional turbo-prop route in WA for a long time, not enough market.

Seriously...you must have been hiding under a rock, it's been common knowledge for a while that at least GET, ALH and EPR are going to have competition...

[woolie]

HAHAHA So you think XR doesn't rort the system with there pricing, your kidding yourself. Of course they do because they can. Competion is inevitable, maybe Skywest will just have to lift there game and provide a better service.

[Mr. Hat]

The 50 will be no match for a Q400 plus frequent flyer points.

[Icarus2001]

Just in case there is any confusion have a read of this...

Aviation Framework (http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/aviation/15829.asp)

The main points are...

■Geraldton will become deregulated;


■Services that are currently supplied through the Coastal Network, Northern Goldfields Network and the Kimberley subsidised air service will be offered through an arrangement of seven route/network configurations.


■There will be limited competition on four protected routes between Perth and Albany, Esperance, Learmonth and Leinster.


■Deeds will be for five years with a mid term review and a possible extension of up to a further five years.

[Capt Claret]

IMHO one is in lala land if one thinks QF has/is/might purchase Network in order to obtain an AOC. Why does QF need another AOC?

I wonder if their interest might be in some airport real estate?

[topend3]

could be on the money claret, as there is not much room left around QF or T3 for some Q400s...

[Swift6]

Shirjoc, the internet at Cloudbreak isn't that bad

[Icarus2001]

Plenty of room on that vast expanse of tarmac in front of what may become Terminal WA. Pretty easy to bus pax across.

[Xeptu]

Just stating the bleeding obvious, of course it's for the buildings, once bought, network will cease to exist and on the issue of room for two operators over the coastal routes, you're right, there isnt. If I were a gambling man as to who survives my money would be on the Q400 as I have no doubt about the outcome. It will be the same as it is against REX over Port Lincoln in South Australia.

[Capn Bloggs]

there is not much room left around QF or T3 for some Q400s...
Not many pens left in the yacht clubs on the Swan either. They better move fast or they'll get stuck in Mindarie! :}

[flyingfox]

My forcast is for a new regional operation for Qantas. Cobham will be the loser with the 717 leaving the fleet. Qantas wouldn't want the staff uproar of buying into Cobham, so a clean sheet of paper would look good for QF in both RPT and mining charter! :uhoh:

[Skynews]

Qantas wouldn't want the staff uproar of buying into Cobham,
why would there be an uproar?

[Icarus2001]

with the 717 leaving the fleet Unlikely as the airframes are leased by QF to 2018.

[topend3]

but i thought Cobham only had an agreement until 2012?

[R.Cruizo]

Correct, the crewing contact with Cobham is due for renewal in 2012. The 717 leases expire around 2017. Another 5 years beyond the crew contract.

[beaver_rotate]

Well with regards to Nick Xenophon's push for a senate inquiry into pilot training, 2 out of his 3 key examples (incidents/accidents) are 2 Cobham B717 incidents.... with the 3rd being the multiple stick-shaker incidents on a QLink Q300... cannot be good for 2012??

[Normasars]

Hey Beaver,

Go fishing somewhere else mate LOL.

Hope all is going well with you and yours.

Norma

[Skynews]

Well with regards to Nick Xenophon's push for a senate inquiry into pilot training, 2 out of his 3 key examples (incidents/accidents) are 2 Cobham B717 incidents.... with the 3rd being the multiple stick-shaker incidents on a QLink Q300

True, and one of his advisors is the man that was heading the Cobham training dept, before during and for a time after the incidents.

Xenophon will have first hand information available re the incidents and there causes.

[beaver_rotate]

Norma

Again... you don't miss a thing! Hope you are well mate, daily pineapples here and the like, say hi to the boys from me and call me when you're here.

BR

[shirjoc]

!9th Nov skywest is awarded the position of the preferred operator for the coastal routes except Geraldton. Albany Esp& others is for skywest for the next 5 years. so I guess that settles that for now...

[Chadzat]

The government sensibly realised that ABA and ESP are too small for 2 mid sized operators. After 12 months of undercutting fares, 1 would have dropped out anyway. Apart from 12 months of cheap flights for residents, there wouldn't have been any appreciable gain from awarding 2 licences.

[Icarus2001]

Checked on the government website and I cannot see an anouncement.

Aviation home (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/aviation/565.asp)

[Mr. Hat]

Geraldton is the money maker and thats gotta hurt. Ouch!

Word is Alliance have muscled in on Telfer. Don't even bother trying to compete with Alliance on charter or qf on regional flying with the Q400 for that matter. You will lose.

Very interested to see who's going to go head to head on the Geraldton route. Will it be

Q400 V Ejet
Q400 V F100
Q400 V F50

My money is on Q400 clearly. Reckon only an ATR would come close to posing a threat.

[Capn Bloggs]

I doubt whether QF will bring over the boats to fly on only one route.

[Going Nowhere]

You'd need at least enough work for 3-4 aircraft to make the start up and moving cost worth it.

There's only 7 Q400's due from Feb 2011, and I think most of those will have found work on the East Coast.

Maybe a few -300's ex East Coast run by Cobham. That's a big maybe though... :confused:

[XRlent320]

I think Skywest's MOU with VB will prevent the Ejet getting a look in, so my prediction is F100 vs 717 to GEL and LEA.

[topend3]

I agree with Bloggs, QF have canned the prop idea in WA. Can't see a couple of daily 717's F100's going into GEL or LEA, those routes even are marginal for two jet operators. Without gas, LEA would only be getting an F50.

[Continental-520]

HAHAHA So you think XR doesn't rort the system with there pricing, your kidding yourself. Of course they do because they can. Competion is inevitable, maybe Skywest will just have to lift there game and provide a better service.

Well, I guess they've got the next 5 years to do that then, don't they? :D

520

[Mr. Hat]

Just can't quite get my head around the alliance VB have with Skywest if this means the Ejet can't go into GEL. What benefit is there then? A strange move by JB. I understand Delta, ANZ, Etihad and the AFL but I don't see what benefit VB would get if they can't do GEL...

Great move by Skywest if its true. VB got trumped on that one!

I though the Q400 would have been the perfect machine for the route. Sounds like it will stay as is.

[XRlent320]

The Q400 is perfect for GEL. LEA is more of a Jet route therefore i don't see QF bringing over the 400 just for GEL. If they had of got ESP and ABA they may have thought about it but with GEL the only route suitable I don't think we'll see them here.

The 717 is already an established operation in WA and LEA will fit in nicely with that network. My thoughts are that sending a 717 to GEL would be just as cheap as setting up a brand new base for the Q400.

VB by signing the MOU with XR have effectively just been granted access to ESP, ABA, GEL, LEA and probably CAR, MJK and Kalbarri too.
That's quite a nice little WA network which can all be booked through the VB website.

There's nothing stopping VB entering the GEL market however with Ejets not suited to that route i dare say that they'll steer clear. Before you all crow about F100's not being suited to the route either you're all correct, an F100 will burn about 1.5 to 2 tonne versus 500kg on the 50. Skywest are only sending jets because the GEL people believe they deserve a Jet otherwise I think XR would be happy to continue with 10 or so F50 flts a day.

[Icarus2001]

Still no announcement, unless someone has found it?

[tasdevil.f27]

Apparently QLink were or are thinking of running a couple of 717's on some routes on the East Coast to take on Virgin once they get business class up and running. LST being one port mentioned. Now whether this would ever happen or not I don't know. I did hear that a few phone calls were made to see what 717 ground equipment would be required at LST.

[topend3]

could be a possibility, as 738 capacity is being earmarked for ZNE and PBO (though doubt the facilities are up for it at PBO)

but surely they would need something to supplement the existing 717 services other than just more 738's and with the likely addition of at least LEA and potentially GET.

[shirjoc]

Check Website "investegate.co.uk" Click on "Company news" Search SKYW and read on. It is a statement from Skywest that it had been awarded the contract. Cheers.

[Icarus2001]

A bit cheeky to announce it if the WA government still have not done so...

Aviation home (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/aviation/565.asp)

Investegate | Company News | Corporate, London Stock Exchange, Regulatory News Headlines Skywest Airlines to extend coastal network (http://www.investegate.co.uk/InvArticle.aspx?id=166758)

[Mr. Hat]

Australian Securities and Investments Commission (http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf)

[shirjoc]

How are u mate .I just clicked on the site u put in your post but i could not find anything dealing with the subject. I am particularly interested in any/all info on this as it could mean a cheaper fare (joking) for me as a FIFO. any info would help. Cheers.

[Chadzat]

All you blokes waiting on news for the government- have you checked was month we are in? Public Servants have been on holidays for 14 days now!! Never to be seen again until January 31st! The Department of Transport website will get updated on Feb 1st. :D