Hands to Flying Stations Buccaneers

[david parry]

Buccaneers are best;) 'VICTORIOUS' RECEIVES NEW STRIKE FORCE - British Pathe (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=44152) NEW PLANES FOR NAVY - British Pathe (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=42412)

[BEagle]

From nearly 50 years ago - when we did things properly......

Whereas now all we can afford are a brace of aircraftless carriers which might one day operate a few single-engined American aircraft.

Personally, I think the RN should have been told "You want the carriers, you take the Harriers. Now. All of them - and all the associated training and support costs!".

[glad rag]

Whereas now all we can afford are a brace of aircraftless carriers

Not from yesterdays news, it won't even be a brace.:(

[Dual ground]

As an ex-crab who has never witnessed fixed wing carrier ops can anyone explain something for me?

It appears that the RN used some sort of cable arrangement to attach the aircraft to the catapult. In some shots it appears that this cable then detached from the aircraft and fell into the sea. Would this be correct? I also notice in the shot of the launch a pile of cables sitting on the deck to the right of the aircraft.

In the footage I've seen of USN launches on the other hand, the catapult seems to engage the nose gear, which seems to me to be a more sensible idea. Is this correct and if so, did the RN persist with their system to the end or did Phantoms operating off RN carriers use a similar system to the US carriers?

[BEagle]

The 'bridles' used to be one-off and fell into the oggin after each launch; however, in later years RN carriers were fitted with Van Zelm 'bridle catchers'.

[Dual ground]

Thanks BEagle. And the USN do employ a different system yes?

If so surely this would of prevented aircraft from the 2 different navies operating off each others decks, not the best situation I would of thought...

[david parry]

The Cables are called strops!! that you can see on the flight deck, and were used on all cat launches , and deposited in Davy Jones locker after take off. They had colour idents painted on the crimp eyelet for different a/c red,blue etc. Tooms also had strop launches. The septics did indeed have a different launch procedure.

[david parry]

Strop catchers were a failure on Carriers, and done away with after, the ships Far East commission, was completed on the Vic and Ark , and never used again:oh:

[RAFEngO74to09]

This is the current way of launching aircraft from USN carriers. A tow bar is connected between the nosewheel leg of the aircraft and the "shuttle" of the catapault.

HowStuffWorks "Catapults and Taking Off from an Aircraft Carrier" (http://science.howstuffworks.com/aircraft-carrier3.htm)

[cliver029]

I was once told that in collecting used strops, shipping back for testing and then re-issueing it was more expensive than just using new ones, yes???

[4Greens]

The US system requires extra weight and strengthening of the nosewheel. Strops work off two spring loaded hooks in the lower fuselage. It was a simple and effective system albeit expensive in strops.

[draken55]

PHANTOMS ON HMS EAGLE - British Pathe (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=46084)

Here is a link to another piece of archive material from 1969 perhaps relevant to the current situation. Why?

At that time we still had three fixed wing carriers but Labour had deemed them surplus as we were pulling back from East of Suez. We could no longer afford to be the Worlds Policeman as a result of the state of our Economy.

With the return of a Conservative Government in June 1970 it was hoped that the run down of the fixed wing carriers would be stopped. It wasn't and Hermes was converted to an LPH with Eagle taken out of service(though quite able to operate the Phantom, Eagle needed some work on it's Jet Blast Deflectors, money that was not made available.)

Ark Royal was allowed to run on to allow time for the Fleet to adjust (SSM's for the surface fleet replacing carrier strike aircraft) but hung on until late 1978 much longer than was intended, suggesting that a fixed wing carrier had a role in a NATO only operating environment. Sea Harrier then performed that role.

In 1971 we had pulled back to the UK bar Malta and Cyprus with "those in the know" confident that fixed wing carriers were no longer required in this new defence context. I wonder what would they have thought had they known we would return to the Middle East less than twenty years later and still be there another two decades on!:(

[Rigga]

Beags said:
"Personally, I think the RN should have been told "You want the carriers, you take the Harriers. Now. All of them - and all the associated training and support costs!"."

...And then you'd count them all out, and...watch them all dissappear due to the cheapest possible tooling, spares, training and maintenance.

Best to get rid while everyone remembers the best of them (and its cheaper).

[6f1]

Rigga at least the FAA would do inspections properly i.e.( wings folding under high G F4,and Buccaneer) and the crews wouldn't whinge about going to war they would do the job they were paid for as the FAA have fought the majority of U.K. actions since the WWII!

[Senior Pilot]

Strop catchers were a failure on Carriers, and done away with after, the ships Far East commission, was completed on the Vic and Ark , and never used again:oh:

Ark had strop catchers until she was de-commissioned. Not sure what you are referring to: the USN had bridle catchers on most of their carriers until the Nimitz class, they seemed to work fairly well :hmm:

[david parry]

SP you are quiet correct, it was the Eagle and Victorious, that i should have said:ouch: Vic had one on the previous commission, on which i served, Eagle was going to have one fitted . Not sure if having the waist cat fitted , in the refit, stopped it being installed???

[david parry]

Vic 62 Port Cat http://www.mcdoa.org.uk/images/HMS%20Victorious%20c1962.jpg

[david parry]

Vic 66 Port cat http://www.barrylockyer.com/vic_leaving_pompey_1966.jpg