880 tonight = No FO. Let's keep it that way

[No-Wai]

I urge all you guys: stand the line. Don'y be tempted by their offers.

Signed,

An army of One.

[bogie30]

Oh dear! Another G day wasted..

[tiger321]

We are so short of crew it's beyond a joke.

880 went with an STC (ex-STC?) as relief.

709 stole the FO from 412. The 412 flight is crewless with a few hours to go before departure.

I'm sure there is a whole heap more too. Who would want to be a Crew controller for this place?

I know it's there trainset but they have a strange way of running it!

[pasa001]

They called me tonight and I'm already at 90Hours they must be desperate!!!

[smilingknife]

This afternoon, they left 3 messages on my phone asking for help.......unfortunately I was not able to oblige and I am on just over 94 hours due to reserve earlier this week.

It seems that goodwill has well and truly dried up all round.

Desperate times indeed!

Now.......about those pay negotiations which should have been settled 5 years ago.

[Bograt]

Landed this evening, CC msg "can you help and do XXX?" Pretty sure I would have been close to discretion before arriving there (haven't checked yet though) and done myself out of FDP hours for next month!

"Cannot..."

[superfrozo]

So the company gets out of jail free again... thanks to an AOA member no less. <Sigh>

Way to go :ugh:

Once again we show how aviation eats its young.

[Bograt]

So the company gets out of jail free again... thanks to an AOA member no less. <Sigh>

Way to go :ugh:

Edit: Beaten by ^^^...

[tiger321]

And the helper turns out to be a very vocal AOA member who also happens to have helped out on his G the day before!! I could understand it if he was in overtime but a quick peruse of his roster shows he is nowhere near.

What are you tring to prove AL!! Not getting on with the missus?

[broadband circuit]

So the company gets out of jail free again... thanks to an AOA member no less. <Sigh>


Well, a quick check of Screw Direct, and the master roster shows that the FO who ended up on 412 last night was on reserve.

*note: remember that 412 departs after midnight, so the "flight date" is the next day.

Once again, the company had reserve coverage, but were trying to use G day workers. I can only imagine what good overtime the FO will get for this. Must be way into the big multipliers because the real time roster has an immediate PX back to HK on the same jet. Either that or this is the 6th work day in a row, and the PX is to comply with 1 in 7.

This is the danger of "name & shame". Sometimes there's more to it than we see.

[superfrozo]

BC - you're absolutely right re: dangers of name & shame... but my post was in reference to the OP's topic, namely 880 and it's G-day "FO" (AOA STC?!?).

It's mind-bottling that this should happen, and if (when??) our pay negotiations go nowhere, we as a collective can look to examples such as this and say with complete confidence that it's our own damn vault.

Clearly we are willing to help out this caring company. Just remember, it's the same company that demanded SLS due "financial hardship", makes record (approx $2BN USD!?) profits a year later then has the gall to only give back 90% of the SLS to its captains... The very ones that then turn around and say "thank you sir, may I have another and can I help you out of the rostering bind that YOU created?"

Meanwhile, the 49ers have their compensation (oh wait - no, the "caring company" is appealing that decision) and the SOs/FOs are receiving their duly entitled BPP (oh wait, no they're not - the caring company is appealing that SO Labour Tribunal finding as well).

Brings a tear to my eye, in fact, I think I'll phone them now and see if I can help the poor buggers out.

:yuk:

[Johnny Drama]

The other danger.... if you keep going with this thread they may simply block the master roster, crew lists etc. from view. :ugh:

Assuming anyone who could block them, gives a s**t what you think.

Vocal AOA members helping out.....sums up the whole story really:sad:

[boxjockey]

I don't understand. If the company calls you, why do you answer? It always rings 27** on my phone, doesn't do the same on yours? Just let it go to voicemail, even if you are on reserve. Listen to the message. If on reserve, figure out the legalities, then call them back with a plan. This is the only way any of us should handle calls from crewcontrol.

box

[CokeZero]

Didn't know that we are using CC at the moment?

Personal preference perhaps? Until AOA come out with it - then anything goes. If I was at 99 hours and they wanted me to do a LAX or LHR then HELL Yes.

I'm all for CC but at the moment - anything goes

[kmagyoyo]

Power to you mate but I have sh!t to do on my LIMITED days off which doesn't involve the use of the word 'check'

Get a hobby.

[smilingknife]

Iron Skillet

You are absolutely spot on.

Some people just don't get it.

They are waiting for a directive........FFS do they need a directive from the AOA to breathe!

[BEKOL Magic]

You won't change the system - the company will always get their way. Unions don't work in Hong Kong, hasn't that already been established?! It's how it's worked here for years - love it or leave it.

You will never see executives in Hong Kong kowtowing to staff demands. It just isn't in their fibre to do it and I doubt the thought would have even crossed their minds.

Look at the state of the industry in the US lads, the world will follow soon enough.

Whatever it takes to get an increase in Earnings per Share, no matter who gets shafted :}

[Ex Cathedra]

Im sorry but Im looking in from the outside here. Which Airline is this ?


If you don't know, you're doing ok... ;)


You won't change the system - the company will always get their way.


The morale being? Just give up and break out the K-Y?
You're also inevitably going to die one day. Why not just shorten your misery and throw yourself off the roof or something?

Or is that your reasonable excuse for working Gs?

[SloppyJoe]

The cabin crew seem to get their own way often enough. Funny how it does actually work if a group is united.

[411A]

Funny how it does actually work if a group is united.
Which is exactly why it will not work for the FD crew at CX...they can't get their collective act together.

[1200firm]

Can we have some more of those stickers to paste around the flight deck,etc. (It used to drive Richard Gear crazy.)

[crwjerk]

748 on 4th (jnb) NOV has 3 crew only. Relief taken off and put on Standby

[geh065]

You won't change the system - the company will always get their way. Unions don't work in Hong Kong, hasn't that already been established?! It's how it's worked here for years - love it or leave it.

You will never see executives in Hong Kong kowtowing to staff demands. It just isn't in their fibre to do it and I doubt the thought would have even crossed their minds.

Actually you are wrong. It is just that WE can't get it right. Staff unions of company like Watsons Water and some other local companies have gone on strike before and basically got what they wanted. Remember when the construction workers in HK all stopped working a while back? They got pretty much the pay rises they all demanded.

[BEKOL Magic]

Ex Cathedra,

The morale being? Just give up and break out the K-Y?
You're also inevitably going to die one day. Why not just shorten your misery and throw yourself off the roof or something?

Or is that your reasonable excuse for working Gs?The thought had never crossed my mind (read below, life has never been better); it sounds like you're getting close to it though. With all effort and no outcome, it mustn't be easy.

You may not realise it but you're already putting that KY to good use. Any sign of goodwill from management recently? It doesn't look like they're in any despair. In fact, they're profiting!

This year, I realised aviation isn't a market where one could prosper any more (unless you're an executive of course). I jumped ship and I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back. I decided to put my tertiary education to good use and the transition has been surprisingly smooth. Now I can fly on holidays for pleasure and not have to worry about being exploited any more. The best part is actually the extra time at home (not getting over jet lag).

I do regret that commercial aviation, especially in HK, has changed for the worse over the past 10-20 years.

The market is on the up and I know my bonus is looking good this year :ok:

gotcha :E

geh065,
Good point, I will withdraw my judgement on Unions in HK and just narrow it down to airline union(s) in the SAR.

Although, the people working for those companies in HK were on a pittance and needed the increased wage to survive which it seems is why the unions did achieve something.

Also, with a company of Cathay's diverse range of pilot contracts - ie expats (a scale, b scale), CEPs, previous LEPs - it is a gargantuan task to ask everyone to rally together when each group wants something different. Even worse when there is mistrust and often bad feeling between the ranks. Divide and conquer! :ugh:

Good luck with that.

BEKOL Magic

[Neptunus Rex]

The original term was 'divide and rule (divide ut regnes) as practised by Julius Caesar and other Roman leaders. CX was actually having a small recruiting problem in the late 80's until the 'Dispute' down under threw up a swag of newly-redundant experienced jet pilots.

Then the introduction of basings and B Scale salaries proved more successful than management could believe, division was established and it has all gone downhill since. The rulers will push as hard as they can until they meet resistance, then they will back off a little, but no more than they think they have to.

Capiche?

[SweepTheLeg]

Actually you are wrong. It is just that WE can't get it right. Staff unions of company like Watsons Water and some other local companies have gone on strike before and basically got what they wanted. Remember when the construction workers in HK all stopped working a while back? They got pretty much the pay rises they all demanded.


The South China Morning Post
Unions push for bigger pay rises
Anita Lam
Updated on Nov 01, 2010
Unions are pressing for larger pay rises in the coming year after a study found profits at some of the city's key employers increased sixfold in the first six months from a year ago.
The Confederation of Trade Unions and a dozen of its affiliates, including cabin crew and pilots from Cathay Pacific, demanded a 7 per cent pay rise - more than double the 2.5 to 3.5 per cent proposed by the Employers' Federation.

Mung Siu-tat, of the CTU, said that for most companies a 7 per cent pay rise for staff would amount to less than 6 per cent of their profits.

Cathay Pacific topped the list of the most profitable companies in the first half, according to the CTU study. Earnings at New World Development, Sun Hung Kai Properties, Hang Lung Properties and Swire Pacific doubled or tripled in the first six months, the CTU said.

But Cathay posted profit of HK$70 billion in the first half - more than six times the HK$921 million it made in the same period last year.

"It's all lies if employers continue to blame small pay rises on economic uncertainties. They made so much money but will only give their staff the crumbs - this will only lead to more labour disputes," Mung said.

The Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association, Cathay's pilots' union, is seeking members' views on work-to-rule action in the run-up to Christmas and the Lunar New Year holidays if the airline does not yield to their demand for pay rises averaging 30 per cent over the next three years.

"It will cost just HK$8 more for each ticket - less than a coffee's worth at McDonald's," John Findlay, the association's assistant general secretary, said.

Bus drivers, delivery workers, security guards, school cleaners and telecommunications workers are all demanding the 7 per cent pay rise. Watson's bottled water delivery workers threatened industrial action if their demands were not met.

Lee Cheuk-yan, legislator and the CTU's founder, said it was a reasonable request. Lee said the gross domestic product of the city's workforce per capita rose 4.5 per cent this year, and with an inflation rate of 2 to 3 per cent a year, workers should be offered a 7.1 per cent pay rise.

The union said it would step up its campaign in the next two months to raise awareness among low-paid workers of their rights in case employers tried to cut benefits to cancel out pay rises.

Cafe de Coral came under fire last month after offering staff a pay rise of more than 10 per cent but then withdrawing free meals, which ultimately reduced their monthly salaries.

[carl baker]

'This year, I realised aviation isn't a market where one could prosper any more (unless you're an executive of course). I jumped ship and I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back.

Good point, I will withdraw my judgement on Unions in HK and just narrow it down to airline union(s) in the SAR.'


Never looked back but still surf the airline pilot forum? And Airline Union in HKG - you forget that the FAU/ FAA and DPA seem to have represented their members quite well to CX etc.

Or are you just here to slag people off. Were you even a AoA member?

[Ex Cathedra]

Or are you just here to slag people off.

No. He turned into a banker out of his love for money and his lack of self esteem and humanism.

Now he is just back here with a holier than thou condescending attitude to try and drown his regret whenever he sees an aircraft fly by the window of his nice 60th floor office.

BEKOL, we worship you. You're the man.

I work for an investment bank now and have never looked back.


Haven't you now?
Or is Bloomeberg.com down?


With all effort and no outcome, it mustn't be easy.



You mean being at home, not answering the phone? Yes, real hard.

[BEKOL Magic]

I expected you to have better form than resorting to ad hominem attacks, Ex Cathedra. :{ At least do something to progress your argument. :ugh:. This is the sort of logic that is used between union members often to a damaging extent. Have a go at the person, not the issue.

Haven't you now?
Or is Bloomeberg.com down?Just because I left the industry doesn't mean I don't still have a passion for aviation. It also doesn't mean I'm not a little empathetic for the friends I left behind. I decided to cut my losses and start anew, following my other passions (no not money :}: finance and economics). Believe it or not, it is possible.

As I said, on holiday I do often indulge in private flying (FLYING being the key term, rather than fiddling with an FMC). Not a bad hobby either ;)

No regrets here.

To each his own...

[MrClaus]

I agree with bartholomewrose. I too worked G days when I first joined, totally unaware of the effect it was having until I was properly educated. I also got screwed. I suspect this is more an issue of educating our fellow pilots than some kind of 'name and shame' campaign.

[Ex Cathedra]

At least do something to progress your argument.


I'm sorry. What argument?

The subject of the thread was closed in post 18 as far as I'm concerned. I'm just still struggling to understand the reason behind your snobbish, defeatist and futile initial post.

And after basically telling us to 'give up, you're all screwed', you still define yourself as: "empathetic to the friends I left behind".
:hmm:

So no argument either on your career change. You really have what it takes to be a banker...

[CokeZero]

iron and smiling

If you do the math then you will see that even getting called out at 84 hours off reserve is cheaper than my option of taking a flight at 99 overtime.

so who wins?

and we are not in cc! so it is the same situation we have been for the last 8 years - until we are then so what?

[EXEZY]

Bekol, at least we can go to work and live with ourselves, hope you get off on the investment banking track record, fraudclosure, now thats something to be proud of.
The investment banking ethos is probably why CX is paying less and less, the elite get everything and we fight for the scraps. Banking practices, asset and bubble formations, drive a stake in the heart of pilots renumeration, CX have ample excuses to cut this and reduce that, in the event of the financial crisis which is an ever present threat.

[BEKOL Magic]

I'm just still struggling to understand the reason behind your snobbish, defeatist and futile initial post.you still define yourself as: "empathetic to the friends I left behind". I do empathise insofar as I understand the rationale for putting up a fight, despite the flawed logic. In disputing management you're assuming that you're trying to barter with someone who actually cares about something other than their own end of year bonus. As soon as you realise that to them you are nothing more than a unit of labour, everything will be clear. :ok:

Breaking out the KY wouldn't be a bad idea. Otherwise, when the reality hits, it won't just be your head that's hurting. The mighty dollar always comes out on top in HK. Surprise, surprise, that is capitalism for you.


Edit: EXEZY - I don't do any of that stuff. The organisation I work for specialises in M&A and ECM, and therefore doesn't have anything to do with the derivatives or dodgy mortgage deals. I was sure to steer away from that :=

[iMad]

following my other passions (no not money : finance and economics).

Gee really? Passionate about finance and not the money? Man did you wet your bed when you were 15 dreaming about all those numbers looking at a screen? Didn't know that was even possible but hey I bet you donate all that extra salary while writing that paper to get you the Nobel Prize....:D

[EXEZY]

Guest Post: U.S. Financial Markets: The Well Has Been Poisoned (Anger of the Honest Part II) | zero hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gues-post-us-financial-markets-well-has-been-poisoned-anger-honest-part-ii)

Zerohedge, above, is my one stop shop for whenever I need to pin down the fraud and moral hazard in the finance world, don't need an MBA to understand ponzi scheme. As long as helicopter Ben Bernanke keeps printing his trillions, bankers are happy, never mind Joe Bloggs losing his house in Arkansas, due to fraudulent mortgage backed securities. Lets just do another round of QE2 shall we and wipe out more of those bad debts from the balance sheet of JPMorgan et al, that should do it, never mind the fact the US dollar is going to hell in a hand basket and that we'll be facing hyper inflation down the gun barrell in a matter of a few years, knocking millions of your 600 square foot dream flat in Sheung Shat. The universe will catch up with these criminals soon enough.

P.S. Cover your shorts boys, this one is about to get nasty!

Rosenberg On The Revenue-Less, And Now Margin-Less, Recovery | zero hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rosenberg-revenue-less-and-now-margin-less-recovery)

[patheticrew]

no cn to moscow tomorlo either

[tiger321]

......and the previously mentioned JNB (749) tonight goes for nothing less than a............ GDO payment! :{

Man we are bad at looking after ourselves!

[Harbour Dweller]

Moscow went to a Fleet Office Capt instead of his office days.

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

......and the previously mentioned JNB (749) tonight (4 NOVEMBER) goes for nothing less than a............ GDO payment!
Perhaps someone can send this ASS-HOLE!! some AOA updates as to why working on a G is taboo, seeing that he resigned from the union some time ago.

[treboryelk]

crikey...he even had to give up an through the nigt shanghai freighter flight AND a paris return to do 749. but those freighter flights are so cool!

[superfrozo]

Waddya know, 880 is missing an FO again tonight.

Let's see if we've learnt anything lately...

(my guess is no!):ugh:

[SMOC]

Two calls today on a G with about 6hrs between the calls. Someone is working Gs no doubt. :ugh:

[ecuk]

Got called yesterday and wanted a favour for an overnight; didn't have a f/o all day. In the end, they used a f/o on 1st day reserve 11:00-2300 who got called out at 16:30. Ridiculous!

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone got 8Gs plus flights and paid reserves for dec... we'll know by 23:59 tonight.

[ALPHA FLOOR]

What the hell is wrong with you guys? You get your salary on time every month, you are on the cusp of a profit share & possibly 13th month, you work 84 hours per month, get 6 weeks leave per year - I can name many outfits that don't come close to that.

These forums have turned from rumour to venom, sure CX is not the same company it was 10 and its not going to change back to that ever. All I can say is that if you don't like the way CX does business then move on - simple!

AFL OUT :mad:

[SloppyJoe]

You don't get it. We are promised time and time again of improvements usually tied in with us doing something in return such as unpaid leave, nothing ever comes of it, we were promised 25 year housing if we switched contracts, nothing came of it, people are told sign this new contract on reduced terms or get fired, our contract states we will get bypass pay if direct entry are hired above us, never happens, goes to court we win, judge overrules it months later after some obvious payoff. Patterns becoming worse, allowances reducing, hotels getting worse. It is the hollow promises and constant eroding of conditions and lifestyle. Profit share and 13th month is part of our contract, we should not be thankful for this, it is part of the deal we signed up for, they should be thankful for us making it a profitable company!!! How pathetic holding out on publishing the roster, seriously what sort of company does that out of spite?

Yes many outfits are worse but thats why all of us decided to move to HKG and work for CX.

[boxjockey]

Alpha Floored,

"You are the weakest link, GOODBYE!!!!" (literally)

box

[CXChildLabour]

Anyone wanna take a wild guess how 271 (18/11) managed to find enough crew? Glad they excluded us from the 4% payrise, obviously we don't need it according to some.

[Bob Hawke]

It was Alpha Floor?

[Sqwak7700]

Anyone wanna take a wild guess how 271 (18/11) managed to find enough crew? Glad they excluded us from the 4% payrise, obviously we don't need it according to some.


With two G-heroes. One of them an SO, nonetheless. :yuk:

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

With two G-heroes. One of them an SO, nonetheless. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Worst of all - this prick is a FULL member of the AOA!!

Wonder is he was wearing his blue lanyard when he signed on for AMS on his G...amazing!

:D

[Mooseflyer]

Geez, how hard is it to get a clue. We need the modern day version of a "Mugsy and three-fingas" around here. For that matter, the old school version....

[CXChildLabour]

not one but two heay....................F@ck me silly then, the way we are going, management will turn this into a pay CUT and we'll all vote for it!


haven't they done that already with COS08? or do you mean COS11, the one that we were told not allowed to sign if we chose to pass on the "one time offer" 08 last year?

[Dead Head]

Our F/O and S/O cx271 G day heroes are operating 270 Nov 19 with a very astute AOA Captain. I hope that he realizes they are already well rested and won't need much bunk time.
Check your rosters to see if you fly with these guys that are so underworked, they don't need G days to recover

[100% Ng]

Arriving on a G day counts as working on a G in my book. Get with the program boys.

[The Standard]

not to mention:

CX749 15th Nov ( 1 x FO G day callout )
CX749 16th Nov ( 2 x FO G day callout ):ugh:

[larrikan larry]

Muppet SRS initials worked 271/270 leaving on a REQUESTED G Day.
Someone pay this guy a visit.
Initials above-stupid Aussie selfish prick.

[SMOC]

Now I know why I didn't get called out while on reserve @ 84.01 hrs.

Thanks guys :D

[iceman50]

How sad all you brave guys are on anonymous forums trying to name and intimidate people when as yet there is no official CC.

Get a life!:rolleyes:

[SMOC]

Iceman c'mon, everyone knows that working G days screws your fellow pilots out of overtime and they stay on reserve.

Do you seriously have to be in CC to not do this?

Yes I do have a life I enjoy my G days and would prefer to get called out rather than waste time never getting called out, having been rostered 5 weeks of reserve over the last 5 months.

[EXEZY]

Iceman50, keep working your G days then.

[iceman50]

EXEZY

Iceman50, keep working your G days then.

Exactly the reason I posted. I don't work my G days but that is of no consequence to all you loud mouthed protesters who shout away without the facts!:ugh:

[iceman50]

Iron Skillet

So to play devil's advocate. Is it okay for you to get overtime but not for this person to be able to pick 25 hrs HDP, without going into overtime. So he is stealing YOUR money, but you are NOT stealing his as he has not reached 84 hours?:confused:

[SMOC]

Iceman are you serious, devils advocate? if the roster is printed with a reserve block and you go into overtime whos fault is that, we all get an equal share of reserve each calendar year, It's fair, except when people work Gs and cut you out of the system.

Yes working Gs is stealing off those on reserve who don't get called out it's simple.

If guys are so desperate to work Gs please search the roster and swap with those on reserve!!!!

[CXChildLabour]

I think you have your date wrong. As did the guy the other night about 271?

ok, to be concise and not get the wrong guy grilled by the annoymous general public, 271 (18/11) is the date and number you input for the screw list in screw indirect, hope that fixes your problem about reporting before, during, after, above, below, left, right, center, whatever the date is.

So he is stealing YOUR money, but you are NOT stealing his as he has not reached 84 hours?

No not really, neither is the company stealing your money if they don't offer you a payrise so your salary could keep up with inflation. Nor if they decide to hire more cheap labour and make someone more expensive like iceman redundunt if they can, just a thought, don't blast me, I am a cheaper option afterall.

[boxjockey]

Iceman,

Just keep toeing the company line, they'll take GOOD care of you.

box

[iceman50]

Box

Perhaps you should learn to read and read all posts, before you make stupid comments.

Iron

Why do so many not get it? Ignorance, apathy and greed.To play devils advocate again, you have no greed then wanting overtime when someone has less than 84 hrs HDP?


Child

What are you trying to say?:rolleyes:

[CXDOG]

Lord knows I went thru a keen phase when I joined and did some G day stuff. Thankfully, I have grown out of that!!

Anyway, surely there is justification for working a G day if you will get overtime for it yourself as well as the paltry G day payment?

The couple of times I have agreed to it (a while ago now I might add) I was already at 80+ hours and the extra long-haul work took me into the 100+ category. Is that not fair enough for guys to do that as the company has to pay a handsome premium for your extra services? Maybe some of these guys being 'outed' as lowly G day workers are in that category?

[SMOC]

CXDOG, it still means there is a guy on reserve who would go into 110+ hrs.

No matter how anyone spins it working a G day is the CHEAP option for CX and somebody is not getting as much OT as he could.

[1200firm]

I think I can summarise most of the previous posts on this thread with the following statement;-
"ANYONE WHO WORKS ON A G DAY IS A C**T & IS SHOVING A PINEAPPLE DIRECTLY UP THE BUTT OF THE ENTIRE 2,500+ PILOT GROUP INCLUDING HIMSELF."

1500Smooth

[boxjockey]

Iceman,

I do read, quite well in fact, and your posts just aren't any good. Go work on a G-day so we don't have you detracting from our hate!!! :O

box

[CXChildLabour]

Iceman,

What are you trying to say?

Don't bother, you won't ever understand it, it doesn't come with a sharkfin logo. Now keep flying rubber dog s*it out of Hong Kong on your G days, since you got nothing else better to do with your life quite obviously.

[iceman50]

Child and Box poor little boys!

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

[sorvad]

boxjockey and cxchild labour...you obviously have nothing better to do with your lives than trawling through everyone else's realtime rosters then spouting your vitriol for hours every day on PPRune...oh what an attractive, measured and professional face of the union you put across...

[boxjockey]

Sorvad,

I don't go through anyone's real-time roster but my own, and that is only when there isn't an outstanding crew notification!! Cheers!!

box

[Wing Flex]

CX233 28th Nov. HKG-MXP

Yet another S/O AOA member working on a G day. :ugh:

[C172Driver]

CX233 28th Nov. HKG-MXP

Yet another S/O AOA member working on a G day.

Why the hell are they still working on G-days. It's even more disappointing seeing that it's AOA members- it's disgraceful.

[geh065]

Sunday's two YYZ flights and evening LAX flights are all missing a F/O. Lets see how those pan out.

[sorvad]

quote " a local guy I see, same guys who want me to give up something so they can get housing"

Sydneyman...you just about sum up the selfish hypocritical attitude that prevails on this forum

[CXChildLabour]

sorvad, no need to browse through real-time rosters, crew control does a pretty damn good job in broadcasting which flights to watch out for.


sydneyman, good on you, remained silence the whole time and jump on the local guy right away the first chance you get, that says a lot. please don't turn this into one of those expat vs. local war again, I'm sure there's a lot of expat G day callouts that could be uncovered if you really wanna make the distinction amongst the sinners. Be it expat or local, it's still wrong to screw your mate/colleague over like this.

[broadband circuit]

I'm sure there's a lot of expat G day callouts that could be uncovered if you really wanna make the distinction amongst the sinners.

Spot on CXChildLabour. For example the ex-GC member (expat) who helped out last week.


Be it expat or local, it's still wrong to screw your mate/colleague over like this.

Says it all really.

[Beta Light]

The Sheraton Anchorage is full of Captains... all on overtime :ok: Not enough RQ F/O's for the freighters :D

[CXChildLabour]

Jizzmonkey, here's your incoming missile:

READ THE POST HEADING, stop deviating from the topic, if you really wanna discuss about it, go back to the proper post, I'm sure you can find it with a little hard work. While you're at it, blame the locals for delayed command/JFO upgrades, might as well blame them for mandatory COS08 on base, oh and blame them for the payrise you ain't getting cause it wasn't in the contract you signed in the first place.

Speaking of knowing the contract you signed for in the first place, does anyone know if the contract requires answering your phone on G-Day?

[geh065]

Secondly, they signed the contract, why now complain about it? If you want to make EVERYONES contract better, then get housing for the based guys too.

Just like how we signed a contract for the current pay scale but now want more? or like how we signed for 15 year housing and now we want 25 just for ourselves? Lets face it, every single pilot group in the airline is after improvements to their own contracts. Would you really turn down an improvment to your own if it did not include an improvement for the others? Yes the locals want housing but they have always said they do not want it at the expense of expat housing. What more do you want?

[Turbine Kiwi]

I was called by CC yesterday to operate that flight on my G Day, and again today (28th) to operate 880.

Sorry. Busy

[C172Driver]

Simple search reveals tonight CX 880 (28/11/10) lost the S/O. CC found an G-day worker expat F/O tonight- full AOA member too. Very disappointing.

[CXChildLabour]

Jizz,

This was promised by the company for the SLS that we gave them, so again, yes I do feel it is justified.

in case you haven't read any AOA update in the last half year or so, even the union acknowledged that CEP's were promised some sort of housing by the company years ago, just like your 25 years housing. so if you say that is justified, how is CEP housing not justified then? afterall the "promise" came at least 5 if not 10 years before yours.

and guess what, why do you think the company needs to cash in on their "promises" if flights are still getting off the ground? isn't it obvious it would never be the case if not for these sinners bending backwards to help them out?

[SloppyJoe]

Its actually two guys working G's on 880 tonight.

[Wing Flex]

Both the F/O's in question are AOA members. Yet again... :ugh:

Good to see no S/O's made themselves available though. :ok:

[s11max]

I flew with an F/O the other day who was working on a G day. After politely questioning his motive for doing so, I discovered he had in fact given up a few G days in a row.

He expanded on his reasoning by outlining a complicated equation of G, U and Mutual Exchange day usage he and a few other F/Os had formulated which supposedly made him/them more money. He was quite surprised when I explained to him (with documents in front of me) how those processes actually worked and that he/they had penalised themselves for months. Forgetting for a moment the ramifications for the pilot group as a whole.

May I suggest that rather than witch-hunting and name-calling, perhaps a better way forward in the coming months is education. A simple document - along the lines of the AFTL flow charts - could be produced by our association that clearly outlines the financial effects to the individual and the group of G day working.

Oh, and can we consider changing the name of Contract Compliance to something like Company Assistance Program? Think of terms like Climate Change (not Global Warming), Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (not Shell Shock), Customer Service Department (not Complaints Department), Alcohol Awareness Program (not Drunk Tank), the HKAOA (not the CPPTU - Cathay Pacific Pilots Trade Union) and the list goes on. Just a thought.

Lastly, I am on a G day, so why the F#%K am I reading and writing on PPRUNE??? (Quote from my wife)

[Fly747]

Work-to-Rule used to be self explanatory.

[SweepTheLeg]

Its actually two guys working G's on 880 tonight.

I just checked, are you sure it's two? I see one was called off of reserve. As for the other... besides working on his G day, he does cadet interviews as well... team player.

[smilingknife]

Yes SweepTheLeg, the G day worker on 880 on the 28th is a serial offender. Doesn't surprise me at all as its right up his alley to act like that. "I'm on board pull up the gang plank!" Greed is good mentality.

[Ho Hum]

I spoke to the 880 G dayer FO and having been called every day previously and refusing, he was about to start reserve block which meant he couldn't attend a funeral overseas ("not an immediate relative" = no company sympathy, despite the closeness of said deceased) By doing this one sector, they Pxed him straight back and he could attend the funeral. AND it cost the company 5 days of Stby.
Before accepting, he checked and EVERY single standby had been used.
Sometimes, all is not as it seems. Please be careful who's glass roof you stone.

[Sqwak7700]

Excuses excuses. :yuk:

I'm sure there is gonna be all sorts of wild excuses when CC starts. "Oh, my dog ate my published roster and the vet was only open when I got back from this G-day callout which I thought was a reserve day."

[the reo]

I'd love to know how he managed this feat.
Given some stories we get told over the phone I'd be reluctant to believe a one-liner from CC

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

...and also SO (local Hongkie) on tonights (9 Dec) CX 289 to FRA, makes me sick:yuk:

[Liam Gallagher]

The AOA is not in CC. In fact in the recent vote, 3 out 4 members said now is not the time for CC! So what exactly has the FO on 506 done wrong?

I think it's called democracy me old:eek:

[iMad]

omg....look at who one of the FOs is on 289. Lets pray he doesnt know the SOs working a G, otherwise the SO won't be coming back in one piece....

[Cpt. Underpants]

The AOA has a BB where this issue can be discussed ad nauseum

If you want to lose the ability to check the crew list on IntraCx, carry on.

This discussion shouldn't be in the public domain. Wind your necks in lads, please.

[Numero Crunchero]

Guys/gals,
we are NOT in contract compliance at this time. If (when) we are then it is a different story and we appreciate the effort people are putting in researching what is happening as it is peer pressure that will work best to ensure success.

In the meantime, please don't alienate those that don't share the same enthusiasm as you do for personal CC. Wait till it is official.

And when it is official, this is not the forum to discuss this - use the HKAOA forums. If you don't want to publish your name, email the office staff and your identity will be kept anonymous.

cheers
NC

[crwjerk]

checked there was no other standby
I'd love to know how he managed this feat.
Given some stories we get told over the phone I'd be reluctant to believe a one-liner from CC


It's as simple as checking as checking who's on Standby on crew direct.

[tyson744]

All of the tough guys who keep checking crew direct then telling everyone on pp what they have done obviously have no idea what happened in 99. The company can turn that function off with the push of a button and they have done so in the past.

Keep up the good work.

[404 Titan]

Some people here are as dumb as a box of rocks. “WE ARE NOT IN OFFICIAL CONTRACT COMPLIANCE”. What you choose to do is your business but to out people and possibly alienate them when we will need them later on is just plain stupidity. Wind your heads in. And before some rock star accuses me of being a “G” day worker, I haven’t worked a “G” day in five years and I don’t answer my phones on my days off. That is my choice but I don’t go slagging off my work mates because they choose to when there isn’t a directive at this stage from the AOA for Contract Compliance.

[treboryelk]

Could not agree more. Already know of one chap who has thrown his AOA application in the bin for being 'named' on this thread and having his email addresses from crew direct posted (albeit later removed).

[the reo]

:uhoh:
You certainly can check who was rostered on a published roster for reserve.
However if you think you can check realtime who's on standby you need to talk to the non hong kong based crew more often. You might be quite surprised how many "miraculously" have type changes to rostered trips that are hong kong based trips.
e.g.Roster will go something like this
Day 1 Home base to Hong Kong.
Day 2 HKG - Japan
Day 3 Japan - HKG
Day 4 Hkg- regional destination -Hkg.
Day 5 Hkg - Home base
Should the said candidate be approaching or in overtime there often is a miraculous type change and Day 2,3 or 4 (sometimes all 3 days) will be turned into reserve at the Headland (4 hours only per day , because 4 hours is free of credit).
Unless you check everbody's realtime roster I can't see how you will know these guys/girls are on standby, they don't show up via a roster search of reserve codes. The standard roster search with a reserve code also will not show you any Hkg based crew that have had trips "type changed" into reserve. Try it yourself by roster searching reserve codes the next time you are on reserve that wasn't part of your published roster.
So once again the G day worker is most likely working a flight at a cheaper rate than the person who was originally due the overtime.
The company is thinking about the overtime picture with all of the fleets at once, I get the impression that most of us aren't thinking about the picture outside of a single fleet.

p.s. I'm not interested in joining a knife brigade. WE need to work together, not fight amongst ourselves. The longer we fight the more the company giggles.
You do however need to be aware that you are not getting the full information from the company, either in person or from the computer. You are getting the information they want you to have. (a fairly common military intelligence war technique -" provide a partial truth")