Working Pilot after being Dispatcher

[SU-Dispatcher]

Hello everybody ..

Is it possible to work in an airline as a pilot after working for a while as a flight dispatcher ?? in another way , may the airlines give flight dispatchers the practical flying training to be pilots or they must go for schools courses ???

[CFPlnr]

Yep, I know of two ex QF dispatchers that are now QF pilots

[SU-GCM]

Looking at Your location which is also mine I would say forget about it

Dispatchers barely find jobs and already there is enough pilots in the market

Feel free to PM me if you would like would be interested to hear more about you

[SU-Dispatcher]

CFPlnr .. Thank you so much for replying :)

SU-GCM , Thank you at 1st for replying .. I got the certification from e.a.a on 14 OCT 2010 and i have not apply for the license exam yet .. I heard that Egypt Air will publish for dispatcher jobs on the next Jan or Feb .. but i would like to chat with you about somethings .. if you don't mind , Really i need help ! .

[SU-GCM]

Good Luck SU-Dispatcher

Check your PM

[JB007]

I did Crewing for quite a few years before going flying, a lot of the airlines I worked for were very supportive, I managed to get a bit of simulator time and good advice.

But I think they were the good old days...:rolleyes:

[lander66]

I think you might be on your own like anyone else who wants to be a pilot. I think you will still have to pay for your own training, the only difference is that you are more likely to have better contacts for the airline and will therefore have a better chance of succeeding in actually getting a job when qualified. I myself am thinking of going down this route simply to get valuable airport experience and to make a few useful contacts whilst earning to get my licenses!

[Iamsosmrt]

Dispatch is a career, just like being a pilot. It is not a foot in the door job when your career has stalled. Please do not take a dispatchers job if you do not want it.

We do not like being lied to before we hire you. We do not want to hear how you dream about flying and a desk job is beneath you after we hire you. We do not like training you for 6 months then watching all that hard work walk out the door once you get sniff of the cockpit. We do not like working all the extra hours to cover for you when you are gone. We don't want to start the whole process over again with another guy who swears he dosen't want to be a pilot.

you guys have absolutly no idea how many good people you screw over just to get your foot in the door.:ugh:

[Janu]

If you want to be a pilot then I think a job as cabin-crew might be a better way forward.

[desertopsguy]

If I get a CV that suggests the applicant is trying to get a foot in the door to go flying then the CV goes in the trash... Nothing wrong with folks who one day aspire to become pilots. I'm talking about the ones who come straight out of flight school with the shiny new frozen ATPL's who pretend that they want to be dispatchers and once in the door they then spend half their time badgering the chief pilot, head of training, VP Flt Ops or anyone else who will listen. They can be a huge waste of your time and the very second an opportunity pops up they are gone.

I much prefer to give the breaks to someone who likes ops. Keeps my trash can less full too :E

Speaking of which...I know of some vacancies in DXB for GCAA licence holders (ONLY)...total package is 2,000 USD / month.

PM for info.

[SloppyJoe]

We run (maybe ran) a program where people from other parts of the airline could apply for pilot jobs, if they passed the medical and other tests they went through the cadet scheme funded by the company and became second officers. Have flown with a couple of FOs who were cabin crew and did this.

[CFPlnr]

[QUOTE]f I get a CV that suggests the applicant is trying to get a foot in the door to go flying then the CV goes in the trash... Nothing wrong with folks who one day aspire to become pilots. I'm talking about the ones who come straight out of flight school with the shiny new frozen ATPL's who pretend that they want to be dispatchers and once in the door they then spend half their time badgering the chief pilot, head of training, VP Flt Ops or anyone else who will listen. They can be a huge waste of your time and the very second an opportunity pops up they are gone.

I much prefer to give the breaks to someone who likes ops. Keeps my trash can less full too

Speaking of which...I know of some vacancies in DXB for GCAA licence holders (ONLY)...total package is 2,000 USD / month.

PM for info./QUOTE]

A bit hard on em there DOG, you can hardly blame anyone really when all that's on offer is 2Kusd/mth.....!!!!

[desertopsguy]

No need to shoot the messenger, was just passing on a lead. 2000usd or 1250GBP is not a bad salary for an entry level position in EU UK US or anywhere else for that matter.

[JB007]

DOGs and other actions to wannabe pilots getting feet in the door is pretty standard these days - I remember been interviewed for Crewing and Ops positions and it been seen as a plus point that you had ambitions to fly and a long term career planned...but as I said, those were the good old days I think!

The industry as a whole now is 'cut-throat and ruthless...'

[SU-Dispatcher]

at 1st ..Thank you all for your posts & reply , but before you talk about someone, you should know this person very well .. Instead of talking rudely without any minimum knowledge of this person !! ..

I don't want to be pilot for the brilliant suit or a social respect ( just as you think ) , because every respective job beams its respect to others , and people can respect you for your attitude and brain not for your job !! I'm not as your unconscious mind told you , no .. I'm so great inside and i believe of that so deeply , because you don't know who I'm well , how i think about it ,what are my plans , or just : YOU cannot read my mind !!

There are members replied on my post so positively , and others replied so negatively , it's at end represents how your unconscious mind think about the life , and specially about this topic , Sorry kind man , you're the person who will suffer more and more by your negative thinking and you will fight the world to record a tiny point of success , because you already think negatively about everything goes into your life .. with deeply sadness i feel sorry for you ..

I'm now talking to the positive persons ( Ignoring negatives ) .. I wanted to be one day a pilot , it was like a dream .. and when I spent so many time on Microsoft Flight Simulator and IVAO , I read a lot about aviation , not just to be a pilot .. but i read about ATC , mechanical studies of aircraft , Cabin crew work .. just because i love the aviation generally ( That's why i told you negatives that you don't know me well ! - I know you'll try to read this now , just to satisfy your ego :bored: ) .. and because I'm not rich , but i have the ambition .. i cannot study flying , and I think maybe being a dispatcher become a step to fly ..

In the worst-case , after i got a Dispatcher job i can pay for a Pilot Licenses ..

At end , I was about to ignore replying because your negative words won't break my determination and insistence , but Positive people who replied must receive my respect and thanks ..

So thank you so much for helping me ..

Best regards to all

[polarbearjim]

I am currently a dispatcher and training to be a Pilot. The pay isn't always what it should be but I have found it to be valuable in many other ways. I applied for the job because when I started flying I met quite a few others just getting their first flying jobs who had been dispatchers beforehand. My employers had no problems with me wanting to fly. I didn't keep it a secret. Earning the money to pay for training means I am not going to shoot of straight away and they have got a good few years of someone working for them who is keen to get involved, learn new things and who actually enjoys the job which can't be said for everyone working in aviation. You'll also find that in this industry it's very much who you know. Working in operations means you are very well placed to get to know the sort of people who could help you. It also means you will gain experience in things like flight planning, weight and balance and the way the industry is organised which will give you a head start on your atpls and help you settle into an airline pilot job easier.

[SU-Dispatcher]

polarbearjim (http://www.pprune.org/members/182517-polarbearjim) :)

Thank you so much .. and so i do , i think working in operations section of the aviation industry would help making many useful relations ,pilots , ground crew , cabin crew , managers of the firm , etc .. that can help any flying lover to change his/her career ..

Best Regards dude

[Iamsosmrt]

If a few of us sound negetive in our response it is not because we are negetive people. It is because we are trying advance and enjoy a career in aviation just like you. We are not dreaming of life in the cockpit or working toward a pilot position. We resent to fact that so many others in the industry (pilot wannabes, pilots, managment) seem to think that our jobs are so unimportant that they can be filled with pilots looking to get a foot in the door and willling to work for nothing. You pilot's bring your willingness to undercut each other into my carreer choice and force wages down for me, creating revolving door positions, endless retraining and yet you expect me to be positive about it!!!

It's all about you. Never thinking about the effects of your actions on others.

[SU-Dispatcher]

Every job , every industry is important in our life , even a poor cleaner man .. he has a role in the life , a big role ..

I don't look at a Dispatcher or an Airline Pilot as a job , I'm looking at them as a role in the life .. & who told you that dispatchers are not important , Sorry .. he/she is illiterate what's the role of the dispatcher !! .. because flight dispatching is the heart of any airline ..

Maybe you understood me wrong , and I did so .. anyway Good luck for you too , & thank you for your posting .. :)

Mohamed Sayed

[desertopsguy]

Try reading it again...this time without the charged emotion.


Nothing wrong with folks who one day aspire to become pilots. I'm talking about the ones who come straight out of flight school with the shiny new frozen ATPL's who pretend that they want to be dispatchers...

As JB007 has said, it is a cut throat and ruthless industry and the fact that young pilots spend so much money training means that they will do anything to make sure that this training does not go to waste. that said, I will not invest any of my company's time and money in training someone else who will leave the moment the cockpit door is open to him.

Good operations people are hard to find and take years to train. The game has changed and alot of money is at stake, efficiency is the order of the day. Someone looking out the window day dreaming does not make an ideal candidate; I have experienced this first hand.

Am not being negative, am being realistic.

P.s...dont feel sorry for me LOL, am having another fantastic day:ok:

All the best...

[cheshireskies]

Can I just add my thoughts to all this chit chat.

I am a dispatcher at Manchester and have absolutely no aspirations to be a pilot.

At the start of this past summer we needed to recruit several dispatchers for the summer season as, with most companies, our work load was about to double if not more. During the application process it became apparent that alot of applicants were indeed frozen ATPL "wannabee pilots".

We actually took a gamble and employed several frozen ATPL lads for the summer season and I must say, and wether it was that we hit lucky or what I dont know, but these guys have been absolutely top top lads and have even ALL been kept on beyond the summer season as our work load allowed us to offer extensions to their contracts. One has since been lucky enough to get a flying job and is now working his notice but the others remain with us and continue to do a great job.

Yes they do all like chatting to the crews and trying to get email addresses for chief pilots, training captains and the like but who can blame them?

And yes if we cant find them they are usually on the flight deck :=

I personally think it was a good idea to employ them as they did apply in the first place and sort of know the industry and I also think it has been a very useful insight they have gleened by working with us. I also believe that when they do styart flying
they will more understand our point of view and give us the respect we deserve which is usually sadly lacking from flight deck today.

cheshireskies

[PW4000]

:ok:Hi,

I did a search on the difference between a Flight Operations Officer & a Flight Dispatcher but can seems to get any info. Could anyone kind enough to share if its 2 different jobs? If so, what are their primary duty & what are the pay scale like for entry level & career progression? Thanks.:ugh:

[JanetFlight]

I've worked couple of years for TAP Air portugal as Flight Dispatcher holding already a commercial pilot licence. They didnt care at all about that. As a pilot i needed to search in another direction..:{

[no sig]

It's easy to generalise about wanna-be-pilots and ops and DOG makes a very valid point. You certainly don't want to hire somebody who's simply set to use ops/dispatch as an entry to a company to get a flying career and isn't going to focus on his job in ops, I've seen that to. On the other hand, people who have completed their ATPL studies bring the right level of technical knowledge into the department and in my experience, have proved to be excellent ops people. In absence of other well qualified and experienced operations people available as candidates, my rule of thumb has been, if they are low hours and I know I'll get two years or so of a wanna-be-pilot in ops/dispatch then I'll hire them, if not then I won't. But, if there are other well qualified and experienced ops candidates, then I would hire them first. Your airline expects you to hire the right people for the job, most qualified, with the best level of experience; they must be able to do the job and most importantly, fit in with the rest of the team.

[SNS3Guppy]

There is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to view the question.

Yes, dispatching is excellent preparation to understanding certain aspects of flying the airplane, every bit as much as learning to fly the airplane is excellent preparation for learning to dispatch. The two are not mutually exclusive.

That said, learning aircraft maintenance is an excellent foundation for learning aircraft systems as a pilot, and to some lesser degree, understanding as a pilot has some measure of application to becoming a mechanic or engineer.

Pilots are required to learn and to do everything that a dispatcher does; learning weather, weight and balance, planning, regulation, performance, and all the other aspects of dispatching a flight are something that is a component of the training that goes into making a pilot. The big difference is that a disaptcher specializes in those functions, while a pilot does not.

Some pilots, specifically airline pilots, all but abandon those functions and may lose a great deal of their connection to planning a flight. Dispatchers do that using charts, graphs, and computers. Pilots outside of the airlines do all those functions as a regular part of their job. If one were to make some imperfect but rough comparison, one might say that the pilot position is somewhat like being a doctor, while the dispatcher is somewhat like being a nurse. The doctor can certainly do what the nurse does, and many do just that...but the nurse may be better at it because it's all the nurse does. It's a specialty.

The relationship between pilot and dispatcher is a more true one than the relationship between a pilot and a mechanic/engineer. All pilots are trained to do what the dispatcher does. In a sense, dispatching is an ATP without the flying. Not all pilots are trained to turn wrenches (few are). What goes into dispatching is what a student pilot learns from the day he begins preparing for his first cross country flight, and is something that he or she will do throughout his or her career as a function of every flight (except airline pilots, who review the work others do...the dispatchers).

Dispatchers have a very special relationship to the flight, however, that isn't at all the same as the doctor/nurse relationship, and that is called Operational Control. In a private operation, the Pilot in Command is generally the first and last authority regarding the conduct of the flight. In a charter operation, a pilot and certain company officers share "operational control" over a flight; the authority to determine if and when the flight is launched, or refused. In an airline, this is also true, but the dispatcher is also an extremely important part of that picture.

In the airline environment (and other areas where dispatchers are used), the dispatcher is the one that sees the big picture. The dispatcher is the one that considers all the possibilities, determines the weather, the fuel load, the payload, the alternates, the overflight, and all the other aspects of the operation, and who formulates it into a comprehensive flight release and flight plan. The pilot simply reviews what has been created to see if the pilot agrees. If the pilot agrees and accepts what's been presented as reasonable, then the pilot operates the flight plan as created by the dispatcher.

Becoming a dispatcher is a good way to get to know flight planning on an intimate level. There's a disconnect between the office-creation aspect of planning a flight, and the field-execution of flying it. There's a big difference between crunching the numbers and knowing that the books say one can complete the flight with X amount of fuel at Y altitude with Z winds. It's entirely a different matter to see dwindling fuel along the way with winds different than forecast, while held down at a different altitude than planned, and to be personally affected by real-world conditions in real time. It's entirely a different matter as well to have to make the decisions using that real data to ensure a successful completion of the flight.

To answer your original question, while you could view becoming a dispatcher as "getting your foot in the door," you must remember that you're learning an entire career track and embarking on it, that is only a part of what you would do as a pilot. This doesn't give you a comprehensive learning of flying, nor does it provide you with a career springboard to become a pilot. Being a disaptcher is a full time job, not really an entry level job with the airline. One can become a dispatcher and work one's entire career as a dispatcher; it's a legitimate career track. Getting one's foot in the door is more like becoming a baggage handler; this can also be a long term job, but is more often a temporary job while someone works their way into another position, or until one finds something "better." Dispatching is not the same.

Bear in mind that as a dispatcher who wants to be a pilot, you still need not only flight training, but flying hours and experience. This is very hard to obtain on a part-time basis (such as working full time as a dispatcher and trying to hold down a flying job on the side). How this impacts you directly will depend on your location and circumstances, but you're going to need to get solid flying experience behind you before anyone will take you seriously as a pilot. Likewise, you're going to have to show some dedication to dispatching, if anyone is going to take you seriously for a dispatch position.

If you're going to fly, then it's a career track all by itself, and the best way to make it happen is to take it on full time, full strength, and be prepared for the starvation, difficulty, and trials that come with it. There are places in the world where one can jump into an airline seat with minimal experience, but obtaining one's bare bones pilot certification while dispatching full time really isn't the way to do it.

I've known a few folks along the way who did what you propose, not only through dispatching but turning wrenches and other avenues, too. In my opinion, it's more difficult and won't allow you to concentrate your energies on flying, if flying is what you want to do. Certainly learning to dispatch isn't going to hurt you; the skills are transferable to flying (just as certain piloting skills are transferable to dispatching. Again, the two aren't mutually exclusive. They are, however different career tracks.

[5552N0426W]

I concur wholeheartedly with no sig.

It should be a part of crew training that all Flight Deck spend at least a couple of shifts in a busy Ops and Crewing Dept to see just what happens. I've found that it helps their understanding of just how difficult and stressful our jobs can be.

Keep the faith
:)

[no sig]

Excellent post SNS3Guppy.

[UKSquiff]

Whilst I understand the opinions raised about people getting a foot in the Door, whilst intending to use it only as a stepping stone to move on..that happens in all industries.
The problem often arises with 'Jobs for the Boys'...where people find it extremely hard to get a foot in the door, due to Jobs being passed down from one person to their mate, their mates Dog etc etc.

I wanted to work in IT originally...got my MCSE (a pretty high qualification in the industry)...but was shafted left, right and centre, wasting my time going to interviews, merely to make up the numbers...because Joe Blogg's mate in admin, wants to fix computers.

I have just turned down a job, working as a manager in a computer shop, to follow my dream of working Airside...I actually felt good about myself, because it has allowed someone else, who probably really wants that job, to get it.