Converting ICAO to JAA?

[pilot.90]

Hello guys ,

any advice about converting ICAO CPL/IR to JAA license ? i contact Oxford aviation but the cost was high .


thank you

[INNflight]

The cost is high.

Depending on how much experience you have the process varies.

If you are low time, you will have to do all 14 ATPL written exams and a CPL / IR checkride, including any retraining to get you up to scratch, as much as the school thinks you need.

Probably will cost some 10-18K Euros, from my own experience.

[Bealzebub]

ICAO do not issue licences, so which country or supranational authority did issue it? Each country then sets its own requirements for conversion or validation.

[pilot.90]

My license issued from Canada and my total flying hours is 200.

[Whirlygig]

Each country then sets its own requirements for conversion or validation.True, but it does not depend from which country the licence being converted is issed, therefore, to state an ICAO licence is valid; the JAA method of converting is the same no matter whether FAA, Canadian, Aussie etc.

14 ATPL exams, hours required for CPL training, min 15 hours for IR plus tests.

Cheers

Whirls

[Bealzebub]

Not necessarily so, whirlygig.

From the ICAO website:
Any pilot who wishes to fly on an aircraft registered in a State other than the one that has issued the licence, needs to obtain an authorization from the State of Registry. This authorization is generally given by the State of Registry through a validation or a conversion of the foreign licence. In general, the validation process is used for short-term authorization while the conversion process is used for longer-term authorization.

Validation of a foreign licence

When a State validates a foreign licence, it recognizes it as valid for use on aircraft on its own registry. The Convention on International Civil Aviation and its Annex 1 do not contain specific requirements for the validation of licences beyond establishing the principle and the fact that the validity of a validation, cannot be extended beyond the validity of the supporting licence. As a result, conditions under which validation is granted vary from State to State. It depends on the level of privileges required and on the origin of the licence. It is generally easy to obtain a validation for VFR private flights, but more stringent rules may exist for professional licences. The applicant may be required to get additional training and/or to take new exams.

Conversion of a foreign licence
As an alternative to validate a foreign licence, a State may issue a licence that is based on the foreign licence held by the applicant. In doing so, the Licensing Authority accepts the fact that holding a foreign licence is an acceptable way to demonstrate compliance with its own national licensing regulation. The conditions for the conversion are generally similar to that of a validation.

[Whirlygig]

Fair enough but that's the ICAO website and not JAA to which the OP refers. There are exceptions for pilots with thousands of hours etc but, in the main, 14 exams, CPL hours as required and 15 hours Instrument instruction plus tests.

Cheers

Whirls

[INNflight]

Not true Whirly, it's down to the countries. In Switzerland, for example, the amount of retraining is not specified but to be determined by the flt school.

Still, the process is anything but cheap, anything but fast and makes no sense unless you have the right to live & work in Europe.

[Mungaloid]

For the low time guys is the 15 hrs for an IR a JAA requirment or is that UK CAA minimum requirement? Does it vary between each JAA member state? Just wondering since its possible to do the CPL in one state, and then the IR under the authority of a different state. If that's true you could do the CPL test in the UK, then hop over to ABC where there is no minimum requirement.

[Mungaloid]

I think my question was just answered, thanks INNflight.

[Whirlygig]

In Switzerland, for example, the amount of retraining is not specified but to be determined by the flt school.Is that for the IR or CPL?

But, in Switzerland, do the conversion requirements differ depending on where the licence being converted is held?

Cheers

Whirls

[INNflight]

For both afaik. The needed retraining is to be determined by the flight school until the student is up to scratch for the flight test.

As for whether it differs where the license to be converted from was issued, I have no info on that. At least for a FAA ticket it was like that with me. Think that's the case for all ICAO-issued licenses though.

It's not much of an issue though I guess as not many low-houred guys will be ready for the JAA test in JAA environment under 10hrs of training.

[pilotchute]

Just a quick question in regards to conversion. I remember seeing it written somewhere that convert to the then JAA ATPL you could bypass the 14 exams if you had command on a/c over 150t with and ICAO ATPL? Was that the case or was I imagining it? If it was the case can you still do it now with the whole EASA thing?

I have tried to find it on the CAA website but no luck!

Cheers

[redsnail]

Under the UK system (JAA) if you have 1500 hours in command of an aircraft 30 tonnes or more in primarily international or equivalent operations and a total time of greater than 3,000 hours you could by-pass most of the exams.
However, you would be restricted to G-reg aircraft (UK) only.

Whether that clause is still valid I don't know.

[2close]

I would have thought that the obvious first questions are for pilot.90:

Have you a preference where you want to do your training?

Have you had a Class 1 medical certificate issued yet (by an EASA member state)? - This may limit where you do your training as not all EU member states have embraced EASA Part-FCL yet and may still restrict training to the State of Licence issue.

Is your TC licence a CPL with MEP IR or SEP IR?

Knowing this info would allow anyone to give better advice as to the requirements for conversion.

In any case, if you want to fly EASA aircraft commercially in EU airspace you WILL need to do all 14 theoretical knowledge exams, regardless of experience or ICAO Annex 1 licence held. There are validation routes available for persons holding non-EASA ATPL to fly EASA aircraft commercially for limited periods but a non-EASA ATPL can only be validated for one year (and thereafter extended for a further year - MAXIMUM - but can only be extended if the applicant has commenced a course of study for the theory exams). A validation will only be issued once.

:)

[zondaracer]

i contact Oxford aviation but the cost was high .


It is expensive anywhere you go. It is just that some schools are more expensive than others... Oxford is more expensive than most.
http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/469376-conversion-less-than-5-figures.html

If you want to do your training in the UK, have a look at distance learning through schools like Bristol Groundschool, and look at schools such as BCFT for the flying bit. I have heard of schools in Eastern Europe which cost less, and you could take a look at Aerodynamics Malaga in Spain which has pretty good prices as well.

[portos8]

You will need to do all the 14 ATPL exams. Then it is up to the HT of any EASA certified FTO to decide the amount of training you need for the conversion. Could be 10 - 15 hours only, plus the combined checkride.

[so u think u can fly]

The successful pass of the 14 subjects of the ATPL (A) Theory is the first step. And it is obligatory for everybody, regardless of the applicant's flight experience.
A total of 1.500 hours or more will just allow the applicant to take the exams without registering in an ATO and without a Theoretical Training Course Completion Certificate.

When it comes to flight training, portos8 is absolutely right. EASA regulations leave the flight training at the discretion of the HOT or the CFI of any approved ATO.
However the Skill test for IR training needs to be conducted in an EASA member state and that is why most flight schools propose 15 hours of IR training just for the applicant to become familiar with the country's airspace.

Things are different when it comes to the endorsement of an ICAO Type rating on an EASA license. The 14 subjects of the ATPL(A) Theory are still a prerequisite, but in order for the Type Rating to be endorsed on the license, the applicant needs to have logged 500 hours on type.

As far as I know, the prices of a Conversion Course in Greece range from 8.000 to 10.500 Euros.

[Transsonic2000]

@ pilot.90

what's the purpose of the conversion? If it's about flying commercially in Europe, it only makes sense if you have the residence and work permit. If it's only about having an additional license on your resume and hoping that'll get you a job, then I'd say better spent that money for a type rating!

[zondaracer]

The OP appears to be in Oman. My understand is that for low time guys, JAA licenses are preferred in Oman (I had 1 student from Oman who told me this).

[BillieBob]

EASA regulations leave the flight training at the discretion of the HOT or the CFI of any approved ATO.No, EASA regulations require that the amount of credit shall be determined by the competent authority on the recommendation of an ATO, which is not quite the same thing.

In the case of the IR, the UK CAA has determined that any recommendation of 15 hours or more may be assumed to be acceptable but the full recommendation/approval process will have to be followed in the case of a CPL or FI. Article 8(3) of the Aircrew Regulation refers.

[portos8]

Under EASA the HT recommends the amount of training required to the authority, based on a checkride taken before the training starts. A training program should obviously be based on the skills of an applicant and not be a standard package for everyone where an experienced captain does the same amount of training as a newly minted CPL.
The fact that the UK CAA still insists (if true ) on a minimum of 15 hours of training this would be protectionism and conflicting with EASA regulations as all rules and regulations are uniform for training throughout the EU under EASA. So if you do a conversion do it in a EASA state that respects the rules and regulations of 1178/2011 and bases the training you require on your skill level.