Holding question

[Tipo83]

Hi, I have had very little experience in flying in the US, and the method for applying holding patterns to instrument approaches is totally reversed to what I am used to. For example, in the below picture, can someone clarify for me what the procedure for completing the approach would be if arriving from Bonham? My FMS tells me that it will proceed to MAJOR, then fly the procedure turn? How exactly do you reverse at MAJOR to get outbound on the approach then? The hold is orientated inbound, when I thought it would be orientated outbound? How would I fly this approaching from the south?

Many thanks, and sorry for such a basic question.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/416/holdq.jpg

[kaptn]

I haven't used an FMS for an approach procedure yet, but as long as you'll be flying inbound from bonham, you will have to do a direct entry at MAJOR. If you're flying HDG 153° , then Using your VOR or HSI tune the bearing to 176° and when the neadle is centered, fly the 176 heading. with the ADF, you can estimate your time distance from MAjor (not essential I think, because you will have to correct your holding paterns legs once you fly outbound on HDG 356°
If you'll be flying from the south, which is the case of the missed approached procedure I guess, then you'll have to make the direct entry again.
hope that helps

Source : AGI.

[sekmeth]

If you'll be flying from the south, which is the case of the missed approached procedure I guess, then you'll have to make the direct entry again.
A south entry would be a paralell entry? Agree with the rest

[Trolle]

kaptn is correct with the direct entry at MAJOR; any entry is fine, just stay on the protected side.

I don't see an arrival from the south, but another from the west. The entry would be a parallel if coming from that direction. However, if there was an entry from the south it would not require a course reversal, and you would merely proceed to the procedure turn.

[Tinstaafl]

From BONHAM track to MAJOR and do the procedure entry. Once outbound in the hold make an intercept to capture the outbound track of the approach. Make sure you start timing passing abeam MAJOR. Start the procedure turn at 10 DME (or equivalent time).

Some interesting differences for IAPs in the US:

* The US doesn't usually specify timings for outbounds for the initial/intermediate leg. The general requirement is to stay within 10nm. It's the pilot's job to figure out a way to make that happen.

* Holding patterns are supposed to be flown to make good the holding time on the *inbound* leg. End result is timing outbound & inbound then comparing the two. Adjust the outbound timing next time around to try to bring the next inbound leg closer to the specified hold timing.

* Every missed approach hold I've seen is oriented arse about ie the inbound track is opposite the arrival direction, forcing a Sector 2/Teardrop or Sector 1/Parallel entry.

* Holds over an approach beacon or IAF are also often reversed (like the one in this topic). Usually you can either extend the outbound leg of the hold and then turn inbound to intercept final, or 'slide over' from the outbound hold to intercept the outbound track of the approach. Wonder why they don't flip the hold so that it's on the other side of the beacon, with its inbound track now aligned with the initial track of the approach?

* Unlike Oz, sector entries aren't depicted on the charts. You have to work them out yourself.

* Standard procedure is to be vectored to intercept final close to the FAF. You won't be advised that this is the plan. Caught me out when I converted to an FAA ATP in the mid-'90s, trying to work out why my expected intercept at the IAF was going awry.

later...something else I just thought of

* I've never seen a teardrop NDB or VOR approach in the US. They're all reciprocal track procedures with 45/180 reversal.

* ...and speaking of reversals: I don't think I've seen any reversals that depict an 80/260 turn. Haven't seen anyone fly them here either. I've had several curious comments when I've done an 80/260.

[Snapper1959]

Flying from Bonham, direct entry to the hold is correct. At the gate point in the hold flying outbound turn right to intercept the NDB and track 356. If the ILS is tuned and centred you can check track on the ILS back beam. The plate is badly laid out so not sure if there is a co-loccated DME to check distance so may have to be timed.

[Tipo83]

Thanks Tnistaffl/Snapper, that is exactly the info I was after. I still don't understand why they dont orientate the hold the other way though. Very strange. I also cant find anything in the AIM that states this procedure.

Is there a sector to the south that I can proceed directly outbound from? Or should you always enter the hold and then "step over"

So ATC is anticipating me to do this "step over" procedure when cleared for the appch then?

Cheers all.

[Tinstaafl]

Provided I wasn't being vectored, then from the south within +/-30 deg of the outbound I'd track directly over MAJOR and start timing (if no DME) for the 10 nm procedure turn. If outside the 30 deg arcs then I'd either do the sector entry for the MAJOR hold or track via CASH to MAJOR and then direct outbound.

The presumption in the US is vector for final. Once put into a suitable intercept position the instruction would be something like "Cleared for KABC Rwy 18 ILS approach. Maintain 2000' until established on the LOC". At some point you would also be told to contact TWR 118.0" OR given cancellation instructions and then released to the CTAF frequency.

If you want the whole procedure you would have to tell ATC that you want the full approach, how you want to get there eg pilot intepreted or vector to a position, and if you want to enter the hold. In the hold and ready to do the approach tell ATC & they'll clear you for the approach. At that point you can slide over to the outbound track from outbound in the hold.

[Tipo83]

Thanks mate :ok: