R44 crashed - 4 heavily injured

[Flying Bull]

Translated with babelfish
from Übersetzung für http://www.westfalen-blatt.de/start.php?id=43123&artikel=reg (http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.westfalen-blatt.de%2Fstart.php%3Fid%3D43123%26artikel%3Dreg&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen)
Orinal: Zeitung Westfalen-Blatt : Startseite (http://www.westfalen-blatt.de/start.php?id=43123&artikel=reg)
Altenbeken (stock). DSDS star Anna Maria Carpenter (21) made of guessing mountain (circle Gütersloh) was injured yesterday against 17.30 o'clock with a helicopter crash in Altenbeken (circle Paderborn) lethal.
The helicopter was in the approach on the area of the region Disco” cow intoxication “. The machine touched treetops, fell and bored themselves into a dirt road. On board the charter plane of the Tpy R 4,4 Ravell II were except Carpenter its manager Alexander Frömelt, Dominik mud of the organizer of the” Ballermann Award 2010 “and the pilot.
All four passengers were brought according to fire-brigade with lethal injuries into hospitals. After the misfortune the award of the” Ballermann Award “was called off in the Disco” cow intoxication “.

[thechopper]

This translation is complete and utter nonsense.:ugh::ugh:

The facts according to the German paper are, that a R44 crashed;
1 pax with life-threatening injuries
3 pax seriously injured.
Why on earth the German names have also been translated into English seems to be a problem of the translation program used.

Very sad accident; but shows the limitations of translation programs and their
"willy-nilly" use. :yuk:

[Brilliant Stuff]

If you read it in Google Chrome it gets translated proper.

[eivissa]

http://www.nw-news.de/_em_daten/_nw/2010/10/24/101024_1855_anna_maria_zimmermann15.jpg

[md 600 driver]

The chopper

The r 44 only has 3 pax and 1 pilot was this a r 66

[Camp Freddie]

The r 44 only has 3 pax and 1 pilot was this a r 66

in the photo it says R44 on the side

[JimBall]

Yes the signwriting "R44" is a clue. So is the fact that there are only 2 seats in the rear cabin.

Oh and then there's the fact that the R66 was only due to get FAA certification on Oct 22.

[WestWind1950]

1 pilot, 3 passengers

One of the passengers, 6th place winner of Germany's "American Idol" show (DSDS=Deutchland Sucht den Superstar) suffer life threatening injuries. She was to perform at a local discothek and was flying there with her manager and sound technition. The pilot managed to crawl out of the damaged heli on his own.

That's the news from this morning's paper and TV news. I'm at work so I can't pass on any links.

Such translations like the one above should NEVER be used for such news! :=

[ILblog]

Well hope, that EASA (witch is in fact German company for employment of thousands byrocrats) will not use this case and will not prohibit landing of helis in private sites or off airport.

Was this landing legal? I have heard that there are strict conditions how to land off airport in Germany?

[Spunk]

Video of the crash ... Bb-y7vtw9Z0

:eek::ugh:

Rumours say that it was a private pilot flying... on a commercial pax transport.:=

In that case, dear ILblog, it was illegal.

[Flying Bull]

Sorry for using the translation program :sad:

When I read about the accident I started to open the thread.
Then, suddenly my girlfriend started to attract my attention...
I had the urgent need of shuting down the computer almost instantly - so i had no time for a proper translation and just used babalefish, without checking. :sad:
Sorry for that - next time I´ll cancel the thread and won´t start one, until I have some undisturbed time :E

Greetings Flying Bull

P.S. From the video - so much space for an safe approach...

[AdamFrisch]

Looks like VRS, no? Probably runs out of right pedal in attempt to pull more power, which makes it gently spin left before impact.

It looks to me like the tail rotor (or rather tail boom) strike is only incidental and secondary to the main cause (VRS).

I do hope they all pull through and survive.

[mickjoebill]

Looks like their was little or no fuel spill.

R44s are now fitted with a fuel bladder it will be interesting to keep a record of fuel cell effectiveness in this type of crash and compare stats with accidents where aircraft were destroyed by fire after similar landing phase survivable impacts.

As to cause of injuries in this case, a F1 type lightweigth carbon fiber passenger cell that could frag away from gearbox and engine in a prang has my vote for light helicopters.
Still working on a way to deflect blades from the cabin:hmm:

Mickjoebill

[skadi]

They took off in Oerlinghausen, just 14 nm NW of the crash site Altenbeken and that day was pretty windy with sometimes severe gusts from southwesterly directions.

skadi

[tecpilot]

One more serious accident on an obvious commercial flight, but flown by an inexperienced private pilot in Germany.

That's the new business. The starlet got some offers for the flight, but choosed the private cause he was the cheapest. No pity. Thats the world we live. While the AOC holders struggling with the CAA slings around their necks, the privates get the flights under silence by the CAA.

Yep, we need more of such accidents to have a change. Go forward!

[MartinCh]

Regardless of the information floating around that the PIC was actually PPL, it's about the TONS OF SPACE that wasn't used and according to 'handy' crash video, proper off-airport technique wasn't exactly applied. The picture here, also shows plenty area. The wind direction could have been considered accordingly.

http://www.westfalen-blatt.de/webdesk/user/pix/thumbnails/25_hubi_internet_220x0.jpg

Video shows approach roughly from the side of space (and bit from the other side) in the background on the picture, considering the person taking the vid was on the other side of wreckage. No reasonable off-airport procedure suitable for this site in my quite limited knowledge. Hovering OGE, that height, that space, 4 persons in R44.. :ugh: No need for vertical in and out.

Sad people got badly hurt in this one (I blame it partially on R44 crashworthiness). I bet the pilot now considers new career path, since he'd be fairly infamous among the schools/operators and the insurance stuff will kick in.

[tecpilot]

No sweet, in his real life he runs a greater non-aviation company. Better he goes back to private flying than offering flights.

Bet that will be an interesting insurance file. Starlets are expensive.

[rotorrookie]

One more serious accident on an obvious commercial flight, but flown by an inexperienced private pilot in Germany.

That's the new business. The starlet got some offers for the flight, but choosed the private cause he was the cheapest. No pity. Thats the world we live. While the AOC holders struggling with the CAA slings around their necks, the privates get the flights under silence by the CAA.

Totally agree with you Tecpilot, all the new demands and fees in the name of safety that authorities are laying up on small operators is making us incompatible, giving those PPL jockey’s a break.
Dam bureaucrats’ that do not know **** about aviation and aviation safety.
However, this crash looks like typical settling with power

[Gordy]

However, this crash looks like typical settling with power

Agreed, but NOT VRS.

They are different...one is aerodynamic as in VRS...the other, which I believe is the case here, is where he had too much rate of descent and not enough altitude above the ground and power to arrest it. In the video he clearly did not arrest the rate of descent prior to coming to the hover and descending below the point of no return....classic bad off airport approach.

[skadi]

His approach is completely baffling, any PPL pilot is trained in the dangers of VRS and how to execute a confined landing.

If there was a strong wind as Skadi suggests then perhaps he was on final from over the trees so that he was facing into wind, that's if he checked the wind direction at his destination. Even still he slowed right down for some reason, doesn't make any sense to me...

Has anyone heard his statement?

The rescue helicopter, which landed some minutes after the crash, had almost the same approach direction ( i assume in the wind ), but lower.
So why he didnt made a longer circle for a better landing? From my view this was a kamikaze approach.

skadi

[ILblog]

I think this accident could be avoided if off airport landigs would be legal in germany, and helicopters pilots would have a chance to train it.

Half of my landings in my training was off airport. But I am not from Germany.

[Torquetalk]

I think this accident could be avoided if off airport landigs would be legal in germany, and helicopters pilots would have a chance to train it.


To be honest I think this is irrelevant. Most flight schools in Germany have a special permission to carry out training off-airfield to cover syllabus exercises like this.

This is about the fundamentals of what is and what isn’t a safe approach. Steep approaches should be taught along with their hazards; along with limited power; and over-pitching; and approaching an off-field site with particular caution. An accident like this simply need not happen: it shows either lack of training or a lack of judgement. Or both.

4-up in an R44 coming in like that: completely inept. You are almost certain to run out of power and over-pitch. And if it turns out the pilot was PPL and carrying fare-paying passengers I hope he goes to jail.

[GoodGrief]

Go to jail? In Germany?
Just claim a bad childhood and you get away with everything.:ugh:

But I'd hope so, too.

[LadyGrey]

Go to jail? In Germany?Yes!

Just claim a bad childhood and you get away with everythingNo!

@GoodGrief....what an incredible stupid comment...

[WestWind1950]

if the name given in the news was right, he is the owner of a commercial company. But it IS being investigated whether he was qualified or not. The best is to just wait for the official reports.

The 3 injured have left the hospital, the female singer is now stable but still in an artificial coma.

[lelebebbel]

So why he didnt made a longer circle for a better landing? From my view this was a kamikaze approach.
My guess would be that he simply misjudged the approach, or his distance from the landing site. Ended up too high, too fast, and then too embarrassed to admit it and do a go-around. Tried to force it to the ground at a very steep angle, and succeeded, kind of..
That would be a typical beginner pilots error.

I wasn't there of course, and I have no idea if this was even a low time pilot. So, let's not take this too far and wait for the official report instead.

[Never in Balance]

The other question that has not been raised is why he was making a left hand orbit/approach into landing (landing site out off the front pax window)
Rule #1 when possible always do a an orbit/approach with the landing area on your PIC side of the a/c when coming into a Confined/"off airport landing". In this case a right hand orbit. This may have given him a better judegment of the landing area!!!

[Dantruck]

Guys...Guys!

Having a passing interest in all things German and/or R44 I've been watching this thread for a few days. That shouldn't mean anything except you're all now making my head spin, not to mention making me feel very old indeed. Stop it!

For a start, too many here think AAIB-type investigation is based on what they imagine, rather than what happened. Worse, what they think is derived from 10 seconds of almost nothingness from You Tube. Gawd help us!

Speak, by all means, if you KNOW something. Contribute something interesting or otherwise meaningful if you HAVE GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE. But desist, please, if your only input is based on what your befuddled brain imagines might have happened having just arrived home from your local hostelry.

I myself, have just achieved the latter, but at least I still have the imagination to wonder why the internet's greatest contribution to a recordable accident is why so many feel qualified to expound so much horseradish to so few. Please don't ask me to identify the exact nonsense posted above. If you cannot see it for yourself you are not a rotorhead - at least not one your instructor should admit too - and my answer would likely be wasted.

Like I say, Pprune is at least one of the better sites where rotorheads can debate. All are welcome in my book, but for pity's sake have something meaningful to say, please. Don'y just enter and empty your bladder.

Mr Mod...am I wrong?

Fellow contributors...am I wrong?

Otherwise people, what's the point?

Dan

PS: And do spare me all the 'this is a rumour network' drivel. If you want to attempt to chastise me feel free, but at least honour my age by doing it with gusto.

[PP-H]

Dantruck agree with u 100%......

And is it just my imagination in the video or what?
It sounds like the RRPM is dropping just before impact is made with ground, VRS or over pitching?

[Spunk]

Ok, back to the facts:

Fact 1: The R44 Raven II helicopter belongs to a company called HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH (http://www.heli-life.de)
The owner of the company / aircraft is the involved pilot.

Fact 2: Heli Life International GmbH does NOT hold an AOC.

Fact 3: The above aircraft is operated under the AOC of Aero Heli International GmbH & Co. KG.

Fact 4: The pilot / owner holds a private pilot licence PPL(H) since 2007/2008.

Fact 5: At present HELI-LIFE INTERNATIONAL GmbH has no commercial pilot on the payroll. Maybe some freelance pilot.

Fact 6: Prior this flight the pilot conducted a sightseeing trip / pleasure flight for compensation with three passengers on board. The flight ended in front of the fuel pumps.

FQG0ETxjV58


The aircraft was refuelled at the pumps and took of for the discussed flight. How much fuel was on board? I don’t know.

Fact 7: Distance to be flown: 14 NM (one way) from airfield Oeringhausen to Altenbeken.

Fact 8: 4 persons on board.

Fact 9: The pilot intended to make an off airport landing which, in general, is not allowed for private pilots.

Fact 10: Wind at day of crash out of 250-10 kts

Fact 11: At the very end the pilot turns to the NE (downwind) at low to no forward airspeed and starts settling down rapidly.

Fact 12: The helicopter crashed.

Make up your own mind. I've made up mine.

[tecpilot]

Now the ship is broken, the paxes are injured, i bet the insurance is lucky, cause it was "a use against the insurance rules", the prosecutor is armed and the accident board is on the run.

Due to a heavy injured starlet all the medias reporting like mad. "Helicopter flying ist dangerous" , "Robinson Helicopters are dangerous". A lot of customers calling and cancelling their helicopter rides. Thanks a lot!

Some months ago an other german R-44 crashed also while transporting paxes with a PPL. No sweet, no change.

[Spunk]

Hear you talking tecpilot. And it was the very same AOC holding company being involved: AeroHeli.

For the rest of us: in the mentioned accident the PPL pilot flew into the tower building due to fogging windows (according to the pilot) after picking up some pedestrian on a nearby field to show the way to the airfield. The pilot wasn't able to find the airfield due to this years heavy snow falls :=

[ReverseFlight]

Some months ago an other german R-44 crashed also while transporting paxes with a PPL.

Yeah, it like saying "some years ago another german R-44 crashed while 4 instructors experimented with low-G mast bumping" (true story).

No, don't blame it on german helicopter pilots. Accidents often occur due to bad judgement, not lack of experience. We all suffer from bad judgement from time to time, but the intelligent ones learn from it.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured.

[Spunk]

ReverseFlight, I'm aware of the accident you are talking about (HFS). However I guess that Tecpilot `s point is that once more it was a private pilot doing commercial pax transport, a situation the national aviation authorities here in Germany are well aware of but don't do anything against it.

It's got nothing to do with our nationality but with the fact that on the one hand side the LBA maltreats the AOC holders but on the other hand doesn't do **** when it comes to private pilots conducting commercial work.:yuk:

So Tecpilots comment / comparison was definetly appropriate.

Same problem in other European countries?

[lelebebbel]

Same problem in other countries, not just in EU.

[Torquetalk]

Germany probably has particular problems with prosecuting such cases because the are different authorities with different juristictions. The LBA regulates commercial air transport and commercial licensing, the counties regulate PPL and flight instruction. As the flight was by a PPL holder and the company didn´t have an AOC, it isn´t their area of juristiction, nicht wahr?

On the other hand the county authorities authorise the strangest things sometimes: such as pleasure flying events by private pilots. For example. PPL with <100 TT, 30 hours on-type doing such an event. Barking mad.

[Spunk]

it isn´t their area of juristiction
That's exactly their (LBA) way of argueing. "Private pilot is non of our business". Might be true but what if an aircraft operated by an AOC-holder is involved? What if the private pilot is conducting commercial air transport? And finally: What is if we are talking about aviation SAFETY and the LBA is aware of the situation (which they are). Isn't it their responsibility to do something against this grievance?

the counties regulate PPL
Also true. But their answer is: "This is commercial air transport, that's non of our business. Go and complain with the LBA..."

But what am I complaining about. I have to prepare tons of paper for the upcoming audit conducted by the LBA.

[eivissa]

As a PPL you are allowed to offer pleasure flights (no cost sharing, but actual money earning) on airfield events like flight shows/open days and so on. As far as I know that is the only exception for PPL holders in Germany.

[Spunk]

@simondlh
When you say Pleasure Flight do you mean getting paid to take tourists up?


In Germany they call it non-commercial flights for compensation. As a private pilot you are allowed to fly around and get paid for it as long as you don't do it on a commercial basis.
Commercial basis starts when you start placing advertisement for what you do.

[madman1145]

Same problem in Denmark, we have our share of cowboys as well :suspect: ..

Personally it doesn't bother me much, if a PPL pilot give someone they have just met a tour of the sky and that pax for instance cover the full cost of that flight, despite the rules (in Denmark) says they have to be close friend or family to do that. As long as it just happen a few times a year for that PPL pilot and its done in good spirit. It could just be a genuine gesture to someone showing an interest in aviation on the local airfield, and it would be sad to see new stricter laws prohibit such enthusiasm.

But when they land within city limit without permit of the landowner and which they are not allowed to according to the CAA, when they move pax around they don't know well too often (maybe even earn on it) and some of them even advertise it (seen it happen in a local newspaper and face-book), then it bothers me. Then I report them to the authorities. Then I want them hanged out to dry.
Have reported those kinds a couple of times and I bet I will have to do it again since some of them just don't get it the first time.

Unfortunately, the CAA don't have many tools in this area beside giving a serious talk to that individual. The cowboy nearly have to put people life's in danger, before they can do more than that. Sadly.

- madman

[WestWind1950]

The State authorities in Germany do care that PPL's don't go flying around for pay as if they were commercial. The problem is finding out about them. Such companies as the one mentioned in this accident have great homepages, but they are actually just "travel agency's" and are NOT allowed to do the flying themselves! No AOC, no commercial flying. There are many such sites online. But no way can the authorities spend time surfing the internet.... they depend on "tattle-tales"... and even then it's almost impossible to catch them in the act, so to speak.

Flights with friends from certified airfields (no off field!) with small compensation (no financial gain) can only be conducted if the aircraft has no more then 4 seats. The flights can NOT be advertised or offered publically.

There's a huge problem among the balloonists... official companies getting too much "competition" from non-commercial PPL's. But try to catch them! It's almost impossible. :ugh:

[Torquetalk]

Westwind,

Your points about detection and resources are right, but I think you may have a little too much faith in the judgement of the RPs in issuing approvals, and the ethics of pilots in using them.

Off-airfield approvals can and are issued to private pilots. And some of those pilots conduct pleasure flights. And some of them collect money. More money than it costs to conduct the flights.

Btw. anyone have any further information on the circumstances of the incident with the R44 summer 2009 - the one that hit a plane at an airshow?

[ReverseFlight]

Hi Spunk, I fully appreciate your views. The point I was making is that it is sometimes difficult to draw commonality between accidents especially when we don't know the full facts of this latest one.

I am also aware of several accidents in the Asia-Pacific region where PPL-piloted joy flights have ended up in bent metal and physical injury. I believe there should technically be no competency difference between PPLs and CPLs but flight trainers and regulators often have a more relaxed approach towards PPLs, which IMHO is wrong.

[WestWind1950]

Torquetalk, I know of one State that allows that (Baden-Würtemburg) but generally it is not allowed and permission not given to private pilots. There may, of course, be other exceptions ......

[Spunk]

The State authorities in Germany do care that PPL's don't go flying around for pay as if they were commercial. The problem is finding out about them.

Sorry, WestWind1950 but I definetly have to disagree. We reported PPL pilots with exactly the same constellation (homepage advertisement as if they were Lufthansa, aircraft on someone elses AOC etc...).

Examples:

Heli-Life (http://www.heli-life.de/)
CityCopter (http://www.citycopter.de/)
Harz Helicopter (http://harz-helicopter.de/)

And don't forget all those autogyro "companies" doing aerial filming and photography.

As said before: Neither RP nor LBA felt responsible.

Flights with friends from certified airfields (no off field!) with small compensation (no financial gain) can only be conducted if the aircraft has no more then 4 seats. The flights can NOT be advertised or offered publically.


That's the way it should be but that ain't reality as was proven once more in that particular case.

But no way can the authorities spend time surfing the internet

And again, from personal experience I know that that's exactly what they do. A photo taken on a Saturday morning showed up on the internet on Sunday. Monday morning we received a phone call from the authority and were facing a "hearing" based on the mentioned photo. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them even contributes to this thread.

Sorry Westwind, you are totally right with your quote about the regulatory framework but just because the law says it's not allowed doesn't mean that it's not done.

[WestWind1950]

Sorry Westwind, you are totally right with your quote about the regulatory framework but just because the law says it's not allowed doesn't mean that it's not done.

Oh, I realise that. Just because you're not allowed to drive faster then 50 km in the town, doesn't mean it doesn't happen for sure. But, unless there's a radar gun to catch you, you get away with it. The same with private pilots doing (illegal) commercial flights. But then, one gets caught, like the guy in this story, and wham.... he REALLY pays for it! Sometimes I wonder if those jerks really realise the consequences? :ugh:

[Dantruck]

Just back from my local bar here in Torre Del Mar, southern Spain, at 19:40 ETC and several beers worse for wear. Please excuse any typos therefore...

Ref my post number 30:

PP-L: I understand what you mean about the YouTube audio, but my very point is that the internet is a 'zero quality' source for anything truly important (PPrune included...if you are guessing at the degree of 'truly'.) Video-audio sequencing is not fixed. Others here can no doubt speak with more authority on that particular subject, but are we prepared to condemn the pilot, even in part, on such questionable internet evidence? I for one will add it to my bank of knowledge and consider it later, perhaps when I have had the chance to view the original video tapre... you see my point, I hope.

'simondlh': 'Natural to discuss'...yes...you are correct. But you and I will only truly learn something if it is based on fact, knowledge or first-hand experience. My point is that guesswork, or similar, leads low time pilots down a wrong and therefore dangerous path. Therein lies my very problem. To 'discuss' is good. To guess is bad...bad in more ways than you or I can imagine. For what you and I guess, too many others on this thing we call the internet, take as fact.

Now, if I can discern so little whilst half cut (drunk ,etc) what's wrong with the rest of this community?

Off to bed now...Mrs Dantruck is waiting...you understand:ok:

[Morane]

Only Prelim Info about this accident August 2009.

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_005/nn_223968/DE/Publikationen/Bulletins/2009/Bulletin2009-08,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Bulletin2009-08.pdf

Joe

[Torquetalk]

Thanks Morane.

[ReverseFlight]

What difference does it make whether they are a PPL or CPL?

None whatsoever. I was trying to restrict my discussion to PPLs as per Spunk's comments. As I said, there should technically be no competency difference between PPLs and CPLs.

[madman1145]

So any further news about this crash ?
Any official report out yet, preliminary and/or final ?
Has the pilot been crucified or were all the papers in order ?

- madman

[Spunk]

final report (http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_005/nn_223968/DE/Publikationen/Bulletins/2010/Bulletin2010-10,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Bulletin2010-10.pdf)

You have to scroll down to page 35 and knowledge of german language is helpfull.

Summary:

Pilot: 50 years old, PPL(H) (first issue 04.01.2008), total flight experience of 325 hours (all on type)

Aircraft: R 44 Raven II, YOM 2008, S/N 12138, TOM in Oerlinghausen: 1.100 KG, ACTT: 353 hours

MET at Paderborn-Lippstadt (EDLP) @ 27 km away: cavok, wind 250-6kts with reported showers in the vicinity of crash scene, in gusts wind could increase to 25 kts, light to moderate turbulences in showers

Landing spot: parking area in front of disco respectively grass area was approved by the local aviation authority for a private flight
(see picture in report for details)

additional information:

The pilot is the general manager of the company (with limited liability) being the owner of the aircraft. The company was offering flight training as well as commercial passenger and cargo transportation. The company neither held an AOC nor a permission according to §20 LuftVG for commercial flights.
On their web site the company pointed out that all of the commercial flights are conducted in cooperationby an AOC holder. This AOC holder was the holder of the aircraft.
On June 18th, 2010 the LBA requested the AOC holder to revise the situation at the branch office in Oerlinghausen as there was no longera field executive nor a commercial pilot on scene. After that the AOC-holder closed the branch office as of July 5th, 2010 .
The owner of the aircraft charged for the flight. The invoice was paid up front.

Reason for crash: VRS combined with LTE

[[email protected]]

It doesn't look like VRS at all - it does look like an approach towards a high hover without enough power - engine tops out, Nr reduces, aircraft descends, pilot pulls more lever, Nr decays...................smash.

It is possible he didn't anticipate the reduction in the wind effect behind the trees or turbulence affected him - either way he didn't have enough power to do what he was trying to with the helicopter.

Guess what decaying Nr does to yaw control - - LTE

You have to be descending at least half and more like three quarters of your downwash speed which, on a robbie, is probably in excess of 1000fpm to get into VRS - then you have to be very slow and then you have to pull lots of lever.

Robinsons are not exactly renowned for their excess power with pax on board. Running out of power is not VRS.

[BlueWhiteSky]

I took the time and modified a auto translation of the accident report to a more readable format. Some interesting details are not mentioned in the summary a few posts earlier. Like low rotor rpm warning.
I omitted the basic description of the R44 and did not alter the references at the end which are revering to FAA publications

[BlueWhiteSky]

Ok something missing here it is

Circumstances

Events and flight course

Within the scope of an arrangement of a discothek the pilot flew with three passengers in a
helicopter Robinson R 44 Raven II from the airfield Oerlinghausen to the approx. 14 NM away located off airport landing area in the vicinity of the village Altenbeken. At the landing site the helicopter was expected from several persons.

The approach approx. 17:27 (local time) was filmed by a spectator. According this movie
the helicopter flew over the planned land surface and then turned in a left turn to a kind of base leg and an other left turn to an approx. HDG 030 degrees . After the first turn the fwd speed decreased
and the helicopter slowly lost height. In the last turn the helicopter had problems to maintain a coordinated turn to change direction to the left. The helicopters nose yawed to the right into the wind. After the turn the helicopter fell with almost no fwd speed to ground.
At this stage the helicopter made a full rotation (clockwise) around its vertical axis to the right hit trees and impacted the ground.
According to the pilot he could not land on the planned landing field, the parking lot of the disco, because it was already occupied with people and cars.. Therefore, he wanted to fly over the area first of all to find out about the local circumstances. According his statements he flew parallel to a farm road field-concentric in 200 – 300 ft above the powerlines in the area. While turning to the left in the direction farm road he heard the horn of the main rotor-speed warning and the helicopter lost height. He had the feeling of a " stall without advance warning “.
The helicopter came to rest lying on the left side. Three persons where able to leave the wreckage on there own althrough seriously injured. One seriously injured passanger had to be rescued by rescue teams from the wreck.

Information to persons

the 50-year-old pilot was in the possession of a private pilot license for helicopter (PPL (H)) acc. JAR-FCL, first issued on 04.01.2008, valid until 18.02.2015, with type rating for R44, valid until 08.02.2011 and night rating . He held a medical class 2 valid to 13.04.2011. The total and type experience acc. to his logbook and technical records of the helicopters based at Oerlinhausen airfield was approx. 325 hours.

Information to the airplane

The accident helicopter, construction year 2008, had the serial no. 12138. The DOW amounted to 704 kg and to the takeoff mass in Oerlinghausen approx. 1 100 kg.
The last airworthines certificate was issued on 13.05.2010 at a TT of 288 hours. At the time of the accident the helicopter had a total time of approx. 353 hours.

Meteorological information

The METAR of the airport Paderborn-Lippstadt (EDLP) approx. 27 km away stated at the accident time visibility of more than 10 kms, wind from 250 degrees with 6 kt, no clouds below 5,000 ft GND and a temperature of 5 °C with a dew point of 2 °C. The atmospheric pressure (QNH) amounted to 1 010 hPa.
After recordings of the German weather service partial showers appeared in the area Altenbeken. In the vicinity of the showers the wind could increase to gusts up to approx. 25 kt. The in general westerly wind could have tuned in shower proximity approx. 20 ° to the right and it was to be calculated with lighter to moderate turbulence in shower proximity.
Navigation

Navigation support aboard the helicopter there was a Flymap L. The flight was carried out with support of the GPS.

Radio traffic

After the take off in Oerlinghausen no radio traffic was led.

Information to the airfield

as an outside landing field a meadow or a parking lot had been planned northeast of the village Altenbeken, in the immediate proximity of a discothek. (see attachment) the outside landing for a private flight had been applied at the responsible civil aviation authority and had been approved by this under restrictions.

Flight data recording

the helicopter was not equipped with a Flight Data recorder (FDR) or cockpit Voice recorder (CVR). These recording devices were not required.
During the flight photos were made by a passenger. These admitted conclusions about flight course, airspeed and height as well as achievement data of the engine during cruise flight.
An evaluation of the Flymap L was not possible. Because the flight from the system was not recognized as concluded, the data were not stored permanently and got lost with the loss of electrical power in the scene of the accident.

Scene of the accident and findings in the airplane

the scene of the accident was approx. 800 northeast of the village Altenbeken in the westerly edge of a group of trees on a street. (see attachment) the helicopter lay on the left the rear rose in the trees. Around the tail rotor a phone cable was wrapped. In the flight controls no evidence was found of a pre damage. The tanks were damaged, fuel ran out. The helicopter was rescued and afterwards examined. On this occasion, no signs arose for a technical lack.

Fire

there originated no fire.

Additional information

the pilot was manager of a Ltd which was owner of the helicopter.
On the Internet and with advertisement at the airfield the Ltd offered the realization of flight education, personal transports and material transports of all kind. An approval of the Ltd by the civil aviation authority acc. JAR-OPS 3 or the local aviation authority acc. §20 air traffic act for commercial flights did not exist.
On the Internet page of the Ltd it was pointed out to the fact that the commercial flights would be carried out by a cooperation partner. This cooperation partner was an aviation company approved by the civil aviation authority and the registered operator of the helicopter. With a letter dated 18.06.2010 the civil aviation authority requested to clear the situation in the branch office Oerlinghausen because no branch office leader and commercial helicopter pilot where permanently on site. The company canceled the branch office Oerlinghausen with the civil aaviationauthority on the 05.07.2010.
The owner of the helicopter issued a invoice for the flight, which was paid from the customer before the flight.

The manufacturer of the helicopter warns in SN-22 "Always Reduce Rate-Of-Descent Before Reducing Airspeed" about slow land flights with high Sink rate in the Safety Notice. With such a flight it can come to a whirl ring stage (vortex ring state or settling with power).
The American aviation authority (FAA) describes this aerodynamic state in the main rotor in her "Rotorcraft Flying Handbook". On this occasion, it comes in spite of powered rotor on the basis of spreading out whirls at the rotor sheet ends to a high Sink rate which cannot be stopped in spite of achievement supply with the collective shifting lever (Pitch). The FAA describes typical examples in which it can come to a whirl ring stage, among other things with the floating external-half of the ground effect with tail wind.
In general a pilot should try in such a situation to raise the Vorwärtsgeschwindigkeit and to lower the Pitch to leave the whirl ring stage.
Furthermore the FAA describes the phenomenon of "loss of tail rotor effectiveness" (LTE) in "Rotorcraft Flying Handbook" and in the " Advisory Circular 90-95 “.
On this occasion, it comes to an unintentional rotation around the high-level axis against the rotation direction of the main rotor. This can lead to the entire controlling loss over the helicopter. Typical examples of the forming of a LTE are Flü-ge with which high achievement are claimed by the engine and accordingly high forces are required by the rear rotor for the torque balance. Flights external-half of the ground effect with low headway below the transitional impetus, with high flight weight and if necessary tail wind should be avoided according to the FAA not to reach in the danger of a LTE.

[Winnie]

I agree with Mr. Crab here...

The Low rotor RPM HORN/Light will back that statement up, POWER SETTLING rather than VRS.

I guess it was just easier to reach that conclusion. Gotta know what you are doing.

Cheers
H.

[eivissa]

Just for clarification. The report doesnt clearly say LTE or VRS is the reason for this crash. They just mention these issues without further comments if this might have happened.

[Morane]

Hi,

it's not a final report, it's the preliminary report.
It does not state the cause of the accident.
It's just a summary of facts.
The low rpm warning is from the report of the pilot (not confirmed).

Joe

[ReverseFlight]

Looking at the vid, the approach was high and slow right from the start (call it downwind). The tight turn onto base and final would have reduced the vertical component of lift even more.

[Torquetalk]

I also think Crab has it right in terms of cause and effect. Running out of power in an R44 if you are 4-up and approach like that without a headwind is all but inevitable. Completely inept. LTE and "VRS" are secondary symptom of being overpitched. The passengers also reported hearing the low RRPM alarm.

Based on information so far, including the pilot's arrogance and failure to understand that they caused an illegal flight to crash, I sincerely hope he goes to jail.

TT

[Gordy]

Yes Crab is correct....did we not figure all this out on page 2?

Excellent video to use for learning purposes....I love it when things are caught film.

[n5296s]

So as a low-time R44 pilot, I'd like to ask a question here. The R44 is capable of an OGE hover at max gross close to sea level. So what are the circumstances that caused him to run out of power? Was it because he was descending fast as he lost ETL? Or what?

Thanks...

[Aucky]

does anyone know the density altitude on the day?

according to the HOGE chart here (http://www.2dix.com/view/view.php?urllink=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swisshsa.ch%2Fimages%2Fcon tent%2FR44_Raven_II_Checklist_F_6.2.pdf&searchx=R44) the R44 should be able to HOGE at MAUW up to 4500' on a standard day...

There is every chance he is above MAUW, or that the density altitude exceeds the HOGE performance, and that he ran out of power, but equally if he did lose tx lift from the treeline, or was downwind then I wouldn't rule our VRS, as surely his natural 'pull more collective to contain the sink' would have led to overpitch and the droop in Nr, and LTE that crab described? :ooh:

Edit: I accept the ability to HOGE doesn't imply the ability to provide the extra power req'd to contain a rate of descent, but at lower density altitudes it should be possible... Either way it's obviously a badly selected/flown & rushed approach, showing very little concern for limited power and he got caught out :hmm:

[BlueWhiteSky]

Density altitude calculated here density altitude calculator (http://www.pilotfriend.com/calcs/calculators/density.htm)

Density altitude 208 ft.

Village Altenbeken 298 m MSL = 978ft
QNH, Temp, from accident report of Airport EDLP 27 km away.

[delta3]

Look at Aucky's edit.

There is a difference between a static hover requirement and the power requirements in certain dynamics flight profiles.

As a more extreme example of this I'd like to refer the Nick Lappos statement that given sufficient power one can get out of VRS using power. In the given case no such power margins were available.

d3

edit : not implying that this was VRS, I also stand by Crab's summary.

[[email protected]]

Having the power to hover OGE just isn't enough, especially for energetic manoeuvring, you really need to ensure you have an adequate thrust margin. In mil ops, generally a minimum of a 5% thrust margin is what you are looking for and, even if your RFM doesn't have a graph for this, it is easily calculated:

Work out your max weight OGE for your operating area and deduct 5% of that figure to give you an operating weight which will give you a sensible power margin. The correct way (and industry standard I believe) of doing this is to divide your weight by 1.05 but the difference in results between the 2 is small.

For the R44 at Maum of 2500 lbs that would give an operating weight of 2380 lbs (using 1.05) or 2375 lbs (using 5%).

All the above doesn't help when you mishandle the aicraft though.....doh!

[Gordy]

This post is addressed to the ppl's or low timers....with no disrespect meant whatsoever, if you wish to try something and learn from it...:

Based upon Crab's post:

energetic manoeuvring

It will not hurt...honest... Here is a demonstration I would make my students do many years ago:

Put your helicopter in a stabilized hover, (about two feet above the ground). Allow it to stabilize for a minute and note the power required. Now, WITHOUT moving the collective or moving from your spot, make the helicopter settle and "kiss" the skids on the ground.

The way to do it is by "stirring" the cyclic in an "energetic" way. It will give you an appreciation for being "smooth" on the controls.

[WestWind1950]

the official crash report is out, unfortunately only in German (http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_005/nn_223968/DE/Publikationen/Bulletins/2010/Bulletin2010-10,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Bulletin2010-10.pdf) You have to scroll down to page 35.

I would try to give a run-down, but I'm at the office and my boss might stop by :uhoh: I will say, it was a private flight with special permission from the authorities; the designated landing site, a parking lot, had people on it so the pilot had to change is strategy, which then didn't work.

[topendtorque]

As a more extreme example of this I'd like to refer the Nick Lappos statement that given sufficient power one can get out of VRS using power.


did he really say that? That bloke in the blackhawk crash onto the ship had all the power in the world and he just sank faster, didn't he? before he realized and then put the cyclic forward.

certainly the use of a swift flick on the collective will change the nice little formula for VRS that Nick has oft described if you manage to get it in the incipient stage. That's when or even before you first feel that sinking sensation, but immediately thereafter you will be sitting with an over pitched problem. Usually which is beyond the available power to sustain, so, recovery as per cattle truck's definition.

most mustering pilots encounter this little problem somewhere in their early career too close to the ground to lower collective and fly away, if they are lucky and the ground bump is not too hard after perhaps another savage pull on the ol' life saver and with no obstructions for the spinning bits they get to live and learn.

an it's lead with throttle and the engine and rotor RPM should stay together there cattletruck, less you have a very worn out set of belts or roll off too much throttle?

HOGE depends entirely on weight, altitude and OAT, recently did an excercise where a Raven I at 2300lbs would have hovered OGE about 300 feet below where it was sitting firmly fixed to the ground only 1200' above sea level.

the old recip rule of thumb was HIGE MAP+ up to 1" running to normal take off, +2" to +3" normal to steep take, I.E. getting up to setting AS for max angle of sustained climb, +4" to +5" perhaps a vertical, slowly.

in fact you should be able translate with just less that 1/2" more than HIGE from the IGE hover. try it, lotsa people have lost a carton of beer at it. keep the bloody stick still, as gordy says.

The 44 should gain an inch of MAP for every 100 lbs that is thrown off, or pick up 100 lbs extra for every 1' spare for the take off required.

possibly none of which applies to this case.

[BlueWhiteSky]

Dodosim ???

[lelebebbel]

So as a low-time R44 pilot, I'd like to ask a question here. The R44 is capable of an OGE hover at max gross close to sea level. So what are the circumstances that caused him to run out of power? Was it because he was descending fast as he lost ETL? Or what?

Hover OGE? yes.
Stop a high speed vertical (no or almost no airspeed) descent purely with the collective? See the video...

Try this. Take a can of soup, place it on your right hand, and hold it one inch over the table with your arm fully extended. Easy.
Now, with your left hand, lift the can just one inch and drop it back on your right hand -
See if you can keep your hand from hitting the table. Not so easy. Inertia is a powerful force.


If this quote by the pilot:
While turning to the left in the direction farm road he heard the horn of the main rotor-speed warning and the helicopter lost height. He had the feeling of a " stall without advance warning “.
is accurate, he must have missed some pretty important lessons in his training. No Airspeed, high rate of descent, manifold pressure shooting up past the red line, collective approaching the armpit - how many warning signs does one need?

[n5296s]

Thanks everyone for the explanation. Lucky for me (a) I've been taught to be super-careful about VRS and (b) unless there's some dramatic change in my life I'll never be required to land in a tiny clearing at the bottom of a canyon in the middle of a storm, to save someone's life (you can guess how much respect I have for those that do this). But very useful to be aware of!

[Torquetalk]

in fact you should be able translate with just less that 1/2" more than HIGE from the IGE hover.


TET, double the bet and do it without moving the collective at all.

SE, hover power is take-off power (you don't need to pull pitch to accelerate the aircraft); more is nice to have; less is a serious power limitation.

Power limitation training is great fun but the techniques used should be considered desperate measures and not a way to get around being overweight:-

If you can't manage HIGE, a cushion creep take-off is an option: but you are probably overweight for the conditions and a poorly managed approach may leave you red-faced.

If you haven't got the power to manage a cushion creep you might be able to do a running take-off. But you are asking for it if you do, because you will be seriously power-limited on approach.

In this accident, the pilot probably had enough power to manage the entire flight safely; but appears not to have seen a great big trap staring him in the face.

n5296s you are wise to be wary of VRS; some people seem very vague and receive no training in it at all. Personally, I don't think this accident has jack to do with VRS though.

TT

[topendtorque]

Love to, of course esp. the R22 and the R44 are a lot easier than where i was doing the challenge which was in the '47. despite my very best effort, i couldn't get away with less than a barely perceptable lever movement and just a smick over 1/4". That's with shiny blades an all.

Harder on the way back as I was lucky enough to always bring home the carton. heh heh. The thing is when moving away from that ground cushion there always seems to be a gap there wider than the vertical distance available to sink, prior to the tentacles of incipient translation. The idea was that sinking was not allowed. A bit of right T/R usually helped to get past the better students.

A carton of beer was after all, a carton of beer.

So, I always make sure the lesson sinks home from the full power configuration on top a vertical if it will, otherwise chuck a bit of gear off, then always go up a margin to trade off a bit of height say 10 ft. above the obstacles (energy) for translation, and slowly does it or you're back in the obstacles eh.

running T/O I found fairly easy to teach, provided the ground was smoth, and the limited power landing was always much easier than that. just an exercise at arriving at nothing with nothing at the right time. all good fun though.

re the downwards interia here is an execise for :--


dodosim?Google is your friend,


Hover OGE? yes Stop a high speed vertical (no or almost no airspeed) descent purely with the collective? See the video...


Captain Dodo can help you do that.

But if you add cyclic and depending on the wind direction you can also ask Captain Dodo about these two exercises.
1) Position yourself in a stationary hover in your R44, at say 2100lbs AUW at any height above five hundred AGL will do, AC pointing into a wind of say 5 to 10 knots. Swiftly lower the collective and push the cyclic forward simultaneously to dive off altitude. Keep straight with pedals and maintain RPM in the green.
Now after fifty feet or so or a couple of seconds if you have no visual cues, check back on the cyclic to a level attitude. Manipulate the collective and throttle just enough to maintain RPM in the green without applying too much. At the point which will arrive very soon, where vertical descent ceases, check the MAP, should be about 18” or less. Of course from there one would have to then slowly increase the MAP with collective up to the HOGE power required otherwise the A/C will sink.

2) All OK, now do it again with the A/C pointing in the downwind direction. Now tell us the results. After a coffee when your nerves has settled will be fine. Please don't do it for real outside.
cheers tet.

[Sky Bear]

When I was with a company teaching on Robinson's we lost one to over pitching. Lucky for the two guys it was closer to the ground and they survived. The machine was sinking the low RPM horn was on and it just dropped down broke and fell over. It had not been out of its weight limits, density limits or in fact any limit and was mechanically perfect (prior to impact) but still on the face of it the pilot over pitched and crashed.

The cause was tense pilot gripping controls to tight. It was for his level of skill a nervous and challenging landing and in tensing up his grip as he pulled in power near the bottom he over rode the governor preventing it from increasing power. As the horn came on he pulled more power and gripped the lever tighter and the rest was history.

Not saying that this happened in this case simply saying it as a learning point for other newer pilots to learn from. All the calculations about temp, alt weight etc would have changed nothing if the pilot himself is going to limit his power available at an earlier point than the mechanics would.

[topendtorque]

disregard the 18" above, for a 540 of course it would be far less, but i would be keen to hear what the sim does.

saw the video of this event for the first time today, and even tho' it's difficult to read the other illustrations help.

It might appear on the face of it that old mate just descended too quickly, maybe or maybe not he saw a bit of VRS.

As far as LTE is concerned I think that's idle dreaming, pilot froze on the controls is much more likely and forgot about the pedals. Real LTE is savage I.E. SAVAGE

Neither does it look like it ran out of Tail Rotor authority, I.E low rpm, the M/R blades are still straight eh! The engine sound seemed all ok normal RPM until the first whack as well. meaning no overpitching recovery action was taken??

by no stretch of the imagination could this picture demonstrate anything but a gentle A/C rotation. I think Sky Bear might be onto it, yep it just fell onto the ground and broke. albeit from a too fast descent indeed almost downwind as well and possibly with the onset of pucker factor.

[[email protected]]

Real LTE is savage I.E. SAVAGE not when you overpitch gradually as it seems in this case - a gradual reduction in Nr will lead to a gradual reduction in TR thrust and on something as underpowered as a robbie, only a few %Nr can make a large change in TR effectiveness.

Your exercise in transitioning then flaring to the hover into and downwind highlights the nature of flare effect - it is the change in inflow angle that gives the extra rotor thrust into wind - when you are down wind, that change in inflow doesn't happen so no flare effect and an exciting end to the exercise.

[madman1145]

I'm not speculating in what happened, other than the PPL pilot cocked things up from the beginning when he accepted to fly for revenue ..

But would like to point out that the R44 II is no more underpowered in those conditions the crash happened, than many other light turbine helicopters, except if you go well beyond MTOW ..

- madman

[Paul Cantrell]

>not when you overpitch gradually as it seems in this case - a gradual reduction in Nr will lead to a gradual reduction in TR thrust and on something as underpowered as a robbie, only a few %Nr can make a large change in TR effectiveness.

I'm curious how much time you have in R44s? Your comment doesn't sound like the R44 at all. Perhaps you're familiar with the R22 and assume the R44 is similar?

First of all, a machine that will climb at 2,000 ft/min isn't what I would consider underpowered. It certainly has as much excess power at MGW as a 206, and the power is there instantly when you need it. Also, at sea level you generally have 2-3" MP past the 5 minute rating (the 5 minute rating is 1.6 past max continuous). There is a lot of excess power available to get you out of trouble - it's very unlike the R22 in that respect.

On the subject of tail rotors, the R44 tail rotor is tremendously powerful; it's happy to hover in a crosswind even at 90% NR. Drooping a few percent isn't going to seriously impact the amount of thrust the tail rotor can generate. Again, not comparable to the R22 in this respect. I can't remember ever hitting the stops on the R44, even doing hover turns on 20G45 days.

I watched the video, agree it was a screwed up approach, but couldn't see enough of the last few seconds to decide for sure why he crashed except probably the reason a lot of helicopters get crashed - stupidity.

[topendtorque]

Went and found myself a computer with a much better audio, and for sure one can hear the blades overpitching with Nr running down prior to the sound finishing, almost similar to sound of blades in an auto touchdown.

Regardless as to how good the T/R design is it will lose effectivenss / authority once the Nr winds down too far, that appears to be what happened which can be seen (A/C beginning to rotate) in the video and as Crab says.

The most important factor seems to be stupidity for sure. However it may serve as a good illustration for the adage; Never Descend Downwind, whilst Decreasing Airspeed.

The A/C does not have to enter the magic VRS formula it can simply be placed in the position of not having enough power to arrest the rate of sink set up, and bingo, it damm well falls on the ground and gets all broke up.

The power margin in this case is nowhere near enough to be thought of as enough.

Plenty of blokes have done exactly the same thing in similarly configured '47's or Hillers of identical or more power with far less weight and stuffed up into the ground. 2 - 3 inches spare is bugger all, he could have pulled past the redline (probably did) and it still would have been not enough.

That is one of the problems with Frank's automatic governors, half these dudes don't even know that they have overpitched until the bells start ringing, and then they stuff up.

quite sad, it buggered his whole day.

Never Descend Downwind, whilst Decreasing airspeed. He appeared to be turning into the downwind direction.

The three D's - Drinking - Driving - Death.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

A couple of people have alluded to it already, but if you're not used to confined landings the wind shear as you drop below tree line could be a surprise especially if translational lift disappears.

On a general note, passengers who underestimate their weight and bring a load of bags can also make you heavier than intended.

[toptobottom]

passengers who underestimate their weight and bring a load of bags can also make you heavier than intended

Really?!! :eek:

[FairWeatherFlyer]

Even commercial operators/pilots go over PLTOM/STOM by not weighing people, one obvious example and one that i'd imagine the six passengers did not enjoy,

NYC05FA099 (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050617X00808&key=1)

[FairWeatherFlyer]

What difference does it make whether they are a PPL or CPL?


None whatsoever. I was trying to restrict my discussion to PPLs as per Spunk's comments. As I said, there should technically be no competency difference between PPLs and CPLs.

Reviving an old thread, i think that was the wrong question/answer. Ignoring any difference in the syllabus or examination for European or other PPL/CPL, the issue here is public transport -> AOC -> CPL vs PPL which is a different question because of the regulatory framework the operator works in.

Were there any repercussions from the LBA on this private flight?

[lelebebbel]

The 51 year old pilot has now been found guilty and sentenced to 10 months probation for "negligence resulting in physical harm".

The court ruled that the pilot made a too tight turn while looking for a landing spot, and subsequently lost control.
He had failed to secure the planned landing spot, which was blocked by parked cars.

The Pilot was also accused of not having a commercial licence for charter operations and having declared the flight as a private operation to the local authorities.

Mrs. Zimmermann, who is still suffering from the injuries sustained in the crash, appeared as a witness and joint plaintiff.

Source: Ex-"DSDS"-Sängerin Zimmermann: Hubschrauberpilot zu Bewährungsstrafe verurteilt - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Panorama (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leute/0,1518,772484,00.html)

[Spunk]

In some other paper the pilot is quoted:"...There is no doubt that I'm to blame for the accident. But I have done everything to ensure that the helicopter crashed just the way I wanted it to. Where the helicopter crashed is where I wanted it to crash...":eek::eek::eek: