Hong Kong vs Singapore living

[Get-a-raise]

I have a friend trying to decide whether to go to SQ or CX, one of the deciding factor is of course the general living conditions of Hong Kong and Singapore. Having lived in both cities, I have broken down a list of pros and cons for both cities:

Pros that Hong Kong and Singapore share:

1. Reliable and convenient public transportation
2. Relatively low crime rate
3. Wide usage of English

Pros for Singapore over Hong Kong:
1. Superior urban landscaping: more greenery in Singapore.
2. Less pollution (although they can also get pretty bad smog from the Indonesian forest fires)
3. Relatively more friendly and relax people(i.e. less aggressive drivers, relatively slower pace of life)
4. Easy access to beaches in neighbouring SEA for a quick get-away.

Cons for Hong Kong:
1. Ever-worsening pollution (the no.1 issue for most here)
2. Sky-rocketing real estate prices
3. More rude and less considerate people (far more aggressive drivers in Hong Kong with liberal use of cantonese profanties: i.e-Diu lay low mou-Don't ask me what that means-if you live in HK long enough, you should know, hehehe)
4. Higher stress from fast pace of life

Pros for Hong Kong over Singapore:
1. Stronger rule of law and more freedoms
2. Being a larger city then Singapore: more things to do and see
3. More vibrant city: people here maybe more surly, but they are also more quick-thinking and gives the city's a energy that is missing in Singapore.
4. More hiking trails: The city may be a dense concrete jungle in places, but it has more country parks to hike on, funny enough, the transition is more abrupt then Singapore: HK is either a concrete city without a shred of grass but if you move to the hill above that, it's a very "wild" jungle, with all sort of critters running about. Wheras Singapore's greenery is very much "managed" and artificial.

Cons for Singapore:
1. A benign form of dictatorship: The gov has a paternalistic "I know what's best for you" attitude with censorship and more limited freedoms compared to Hong Kong. As a pilot, and expat in general, this won't impact you in your daily life. But, watch out if you want to openly criticize the Singaporean gov. Ironically, HK which is not offcially a democracy, has relatively more freedoms then a nominal democracy like Singapore.
2. Artificial and stale feel: the city can be a bit boring, it can feel like a disneyland. It dosen't have that sense of "realness" you get in Hong Kong.
3. Smaller then Hong Kong: Less things to do and see
4. People there are friendlier but they lack the creative and flexible thinking and subversiveness that I sometimes see in certain Hong Kong people.

Whew, that's what I think for both Singapore and Hong Kong, do you guys have anything else to add in this comparison? Ultimately, it may come down to polluton (and of course the ususal pay and benefit issues etc)

[crwjerk]

Cons for both.......
Crappy pay and conditions which will continue downward. ( In this industry anyway )

By the way, i heard that a CX cadet has recently left CX for SQ. What jobs are they offering? ( he was a senior F/O )......

[411A]

Crappy pay and conditions which will continue downward. ( In this industry anyway )



Yup, guaranteed....except for management, of course.:ok:

[parabellum]

A not insignificant consideration will be the respective jobs, HKG v. SIN.

Any details?

[Flying Clog]

"..they lack the creative and flexible thinking and subversiveness that I sometimes see in certain Hong Kong people."

Are you having a giraffe?

Don't you mean - CANNOOTTTT

and endless :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[CodyBlade]

Cons for Singapore:

Very expensive city.Compare ISS schools fees.

Not as well connected as HK, very inconvenient if you dnt own car.

Are you sure u can stomach the Sin psyche [peruse South asian for details]
i.e ''correct,correct lah'' can be heard from the sim..

Detrioation of middle class std of living.Extreem overcrowding 1m new citizens in 8 months.:Burmese,phinoys,PRC,all types ppl from indian sub-con.

Hk used to mass crowd,Sin when congested ppl start shouting and fighting.

Locals very disgruntled lot.They want their ''Old Singapore back''.

Food crappy now,cooked by cheap PRC labour.

Not much to do during weekends.Unless u like Casinos.

Very stratified living;Expats,new citizens,locals don't mix


Pro:Bali is 2:35hrs away.Lots of SPGs.

[parabellum]

Not as well connected as HK, very inconvenient if you dnt own car.


You don't need a car, public transport and taxis are cheap and plentiful.

[Dan Winterland]

Chilli crab vs hairy crab!

[Max Reheat]

Parabellum,

I hope you are talking about HKG ref the transport. SIN transport sucks! Full stop.
SIN taxis and their surcharges have ruined it as a mode of transport. No taxi lah from 2300 til 0001 cos of the surcharge lah. No taxis in the city cos they are all at the casino waiting to charge a surcharge lah.

To cap it all I got in a cab at last month's Grand Prix and after 200m when I told the driver I knew he was going the wrong way he shat himself and then pretended not to know where I was going... an MRT station.

On top of all this Mrs Reheat is a Singaporean and agrees with everything that has been written so far.

But add on to that SQ staff travel is the pits compared to CX's which is the pit's when viewed against the indusrty average and you'll start to get an idea.

HKG every time.

[CodyBlade]

Conectivity in hk is surperb.I can choose ferry,taxi,bus,MTR,maxi bus.Really dnt need car.

Singapore taxi situation is a joke.-pay them surcharge then they drive?wtf?

Between 3-6pm 'changing shift'.
If you wait in a taxi stand in Orchard rd, no taxi will come -yet many empty cabs cruising around.Waiting for $3 call booking.Before midnite all cabs hiding waiting for midnite surcharge to kick in.And if you happen to stay in some loney locale, he will scold you '' i can't get a return fare''.

[Captain Dart]

Hong Kong: dirty and boring

Singapore: clean and boring

[N1 Vibes]

Pros for Hong Kong over Singapore:
1. Stronger rule of law and more freedoms

Not really:

- HKG does not have a full democracy, the Chief Executive of HKG is elected by a group of anonymous 'industry representatives', or fawning Toadies if you will, who only have their companies commercial gain to think of.
(A few years ago 500,000 people marched in protest of no full democracy, that's not bad for a city of 6,000,000 people)

- If Article 23 is finally passed into law, then anything said about the mainland gov, that is deemed to be too hard to swallow by the Chinese Communist Party representative here, will be suppressed and may end in imprisonment - an end to Free Speech

- If you commit a crime and you "Have a good education and are from a good local family" then your sentence will be reduced significantly

- If you are a member of the Legco (Legislative Council) and you're company is trading lots of properties to make a fast buck in this overheating property market and you fail to mention it in your conflict of interests....well the Chief Executive comes to your aide and suggests "it may have slipped your mind to mention it, don't worry".

[Get-a-raise]

I think my friend said it was a F/O position, can't be sure through, since he was vague with the details. I gather he had consider the pay, benefit and seniority issue and is now thinking about the living conditions.

N1 Vibe:I agree the political structure in HK is really skewed to the special interest with mainland connections, but here there is more room for free expressions then in Singapore. That half a million protest would be unimaginable in Singapore, they would have declared martial law and locked them all up, whereas in HK, at least there is a tolerance for it, which is based on legal guarrantees. The independence of the judciary is more respected here then in Singapore. The legal system in Hong Kong has not been used for political persecution as in Singapore. (i.e. The Singapore government is notorious for suing western publications for defamation when they say something slightly negative about them...so much for freedom of speech). Of course, if they do pass Article 23 in HK, all bets are off...

[parabellum]

Max Reheat - I think an expats. perception will vary depending on whether one lives there or just visits!

We lived there and had an account with a reliable taxi company and could get a taxi within ten minutes just about any time, any where at all, we accepted the surcharge as the overall cost was still cheap, a Singaporean often won't do this.

When in Orchard Road at peak time why bother with a taxi at all? The buses are plentiful and a fraction of the cost.

The MRT is designed around the high density housing areas, the CBD and major shopping areas but can still be very useful.

Ever tried getting a taxi in London when it is raining? Alternatively around 18.00 in the city area trying to get to Victoria? "Sorry mate, only going East", illegal, but they do it, if plying for hire they have to accept a fare anywhere within ten miles. Have you used taxis in Sydney or Melbourne lately? You are lucky if the driver speaks English and you don't have to read the map for them!

As a regular visitor to HKG I noticed a huge change for the worse after 1997.

No disrespect to Mrs Re Heat but having flown with Singaporeans for ten years I found that very few of the middle and upper intelligence/academic bracket who weren't in politics or the government had much good to say about Singapore!;)

[duyentranvan]

singapore has alot of sexy office ladies...

[SloppyJoe]

If it is an FO job at SQ then I guess the biggest thing to think about is does he want to be an FO at SQ or join the cadet scheme here at CX as you said he is deciding between CX or SQ. So FO at SQ or 12 months learning to fly in adelaide then 4 years as an SO with CX with no housing! Don't understand what there is to consider as CX are NOT hiring FOs.

[wongsuzie]

It's a free market offering a public service in an open economy why have to resort ot Taxi mafia? They are paid to drive.


Sammyboy's kopitiam forum has moved ~ mrbrown: L'infantile terrible of Singapore ~ www.mrbrown.com :: sgBlogs - Singapore's Blogosphere (http://sgblogs.com/entry/sammyboy-kopitiam-forum-moved/229679)

[Stallone]

SQ takes in DEFO now??

[lathika]

Hi,
I am so fascinated with Hong Kong! I also believe that if one is going to live in another country, then he or she should at least make an effort to learn their language. I read somewhere that to be able to carry on a good conversation with one in "Mandarin Chinese" one should know about 3,000 characters, and about 7,000 characters to read technical books. So, how many characters of "Cantonese" should I learn to be more than comfortable living in Hong Kong? Thank You in advance!

[etops777]

lathika

there are no cantonese words! cantonese is a dialect.

[hawkerjet]

One thing to consider if you have children is the cost of education. This can whack away a sizeable amount of your paycheck if you don't have this in your contract. More and more operators are abandoning or shrinking the amount given to families who have children.:sad:

[Get-a-raise]

Sloppyjoe-Yeah, that was what I was thinking too, which would seem odd he had to decide between SQ or CX. I suspect my friend is actually going for a management position, which would make more sense. But he isn't forthcoming with the details, I suppose he isn't willing to diverge mangement job details to a pilot like me, some friend eh? hehehe.

Lathika-Mandarin is actually easier to learn then Cantonese. Singaporeans tend to speak Hokkien, which is another Chinese dialect spoken mostly in Fujian and parts of Taiwan. Of course, the Cantonese profanities are the easiest to learn, as you will hear them alot on a daily basis in Hong Kong (i.e. pok gai, diu lay low mou).

[Orangputi]

Hi guys not sure if I am missing something here. However, I travel to Hong Kong a lot and the pollution is not just a worry but alarming! we had the haze here in Singapore last week and there was a lot of discussion about it. I yhought to my self as worse as it was it like hong Kong on a good day. Also it is forrest fires and not industrial pollution.

I am sorry Singapore is a far more superior place to live!

[Get-a-raise]

Orangputi-Yes, pollution is bad in HK and is getting worse. However, I always found HK to be a more interesting place to live, it's not as stale or boring as Singapore can be. HongKongers are a rude lot, but they are not as inflexible and rigid in their thinking as Singaporeans are...which can be a good or bad thing depending on one's circumstances. So Hong Kong is a far more "interesting" place to live!


bartholomewrose-Good point. Although since SQ is owned indirectly by the Singaporean government..so SQ is backed by the power of the state...if I recalled, the the Singaporean gov has directly intervened in several occassions to mediate. Their unions however were far more divided and split by internal divisions, politics and feuding...although both the union and sia now states that their relations are more cordial both within their organization and between them...or so they claim.

But in other more general aspects, HK has greater freedoms..at least you won't get arrested for openly criticizing the gov, which you are liable to do in Singapore. Civil liberties are more protected in HK.

[FutureFO]

I know I'm digging up an old thread but 7 years on, I am facing this decision myself.

My wife and I would like to live and work in Singapore / HK. We have a few friends who live in both and whilst some say singapore is quieter and hk is more lively the rent is apparently very high for HK.

Getting the work may be harder coming from AUS, I was hoping to send the wife over and get a spousal PR as she has a job lined up which would make myself a more viable option for either.

Any thoughts

[parabellum]

Future FO - you should study carefully the employment opportunities in both places.

May have changed but cadet places in SQ were highly contested and open only to Singaporeans and Malays, little or no other work for ex expatriate pilots.

[volare_737]

Interesting - HKE in Hong Kong or Tiger in Singapore ?????
Any thoughts on that ???? Anybody worked for both ?

[flyhardmo]

Anybody worked for both ?

Is anybody that dumb? That's like giving yourself an uppercut.....twice.

[volare_737]

haha !! Funny !!!

[wongsuzie]

There are now more foreigners than Singaporeans -think about that.

Don't expect it to be the 'Miracle island'at once was. It's a horrible place now.



'Foreigners are taking our jobs' complain Singaporeans - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/11205536/Foreigners-are-taking-our-jobs-complain-Singaporeans.html)

[azhkman]

That story is more than two years old, and yet I know that there are plenty of expats that have moved to SG in that time. A friend from SG (local) once told me, that it is not a young Singaporean's dream to lead, but to have a nice uneventful career in a multi-national company. Pilot seems to fit that (mostly).

For aviation, I don't think SQ is an option leaving Jetstar, and Tiger, and I've only met foreign pilots for Jetstar. Who knows about Scoot or Silk.

As for one city or the other. With children, school costs are the same, but in Singapore, local kids cannot attend international school, which means lower or no debentures, and easier to gain a spot. Rent is way cheaper in SG for a good location, food is about the same, alcohol way more expensive in SG, easier to get away for a weekend from SG. HK has better public transport and cheaper taxis and car ownership, but worse to get around in.

Ask yourself, what's important, then that should make the decision for you.

[Foxdeux]

A friend from SG (local) once told me, that it is not a young Singaporean's dream to lead, but to have a nice uneventful career in a multi-national company. Pilot seems to fit that (mostly).

I find that to be true among many asian countries, including Hong Kong. Asians need more balls, like China.

[wongsuzie]

...and all the water coming out of taps is made from re-cycled toilet water.

[Hotroddy]

Why Singapore isn?t the ?low tax? haven everyone raves about | Reuters.com (http://www.reuters.com/video/2011/08/05/why-singapore-isnt-the-low-tax-haven-eve?videoId=218016283&videoChannel=117776&channelName=Johnston%26%2339%3Bs%20Tax%20Cut)

[Hotroddy]

..and all the water coming out of taps is made from re-cycled toilet water.

The price of the re-cycled toilet water coming out of the SIN taps will be expected to go up by 30% by July 2017 as announced in the recent budget speech by the finance minister.