Training - Employment figures

[laakdown]

I have read so much on this forum about FR and EZY about how the pay stinks, no job security etc but am still undecided about these companies. My friends brother works for them and although didnt like being sent to Faro he made captain last month after 4 years, is on 90k a year and even said he loved it as a FO based in Liverpool for the past 4 years.
This leads me to believe that maybe its not such a bad route to get into the airline industry and that maybe just being a bit of a bitch for a few years wouldnt be so bad if it leads to a job with BA / Virgin where the long term T's and Cs and more upwardly mobile.
So for me the big question / risk is how many people pay the 30k for the TR and then get released after 6 months? Surely this is the most important thing regarding FR and yet i cant find an answer to it anywhere on this site.
Is there anyone here who has concrete information about numbers of people who pay for the course but either fail it and get no experience or are released after 6 months with some very expensive and relatively useless training under their belt?
(I assume 6 months line training wouldnt be enough to land you much of a job after)

[v6g]

But that's the nature of a glamour career, whether it's perseived or otherwise.

I don't doubt your story of a 4-years-in guy who's on 90K, but for every one of him there's likely hundreds of equally-trained equally-able others who paid the same money working in McD's or as instructors on a fraction of the money.

It's the stories like your friends who keep the whole show going, in my opinion. It's the same in acting - for every Brad Pitt there's thousands of others working for peanuts. It also applies to drug dealers - for every super-rich heroin dealer living in a mansion and having expensive cars in his driveway, there are thousands of others standing on street corners making only $100 profit a day and having to do business with crackheads.

Journalism is another example.

The problem is that a few years ago, the combination of cheap money and cheap oil led to phenomal growth in the airline industry, meaning that someone plonking down 70K+ for their training could realistically expect to be a captain four years down the line. But those days are gone, and won't be coming back anytime soon - even when the rest of the economy has reverted to normal.

There's a reason why both Easyjet and Ryanair are planning on paying dividends to their shareholders instead of buying new planes - the market has matured and is now saturated.

They know that.

The flight schools also know it. But they're not going to tell anyone.

This all means that the massive expansion in the training industry is going to continue to pump out way more pilots than can be comfortably absorbed and the lack of growth across the industry means that although there will still be stories of people 4 years in making 90K, there'll become fewer and farther between.

[james1013]

V6G nice post, spot on.

I'm chasing the dream whilst living the nightmare as a flight instructor (financial nightmare that is, instructing is fab from a job satisfaction point of view).

However things are picking up so I'm hoping to move up in the world and my McD's application is in! (I think they do free uniforms and the rating on fryer and cash register is paid by them, bonus!)

[laakdown]

I disagree the airline industry is not saturated, we've just been through the worst recession in living memory and the industry is in the ****, but its cyclical and were coming out of it. BA have just announced they're hiring, emirates and etihad and hiring loads of pilots from ryanair and others, ryanair have just ordered new planes, flybe have opened their cadet scheme and Jet2 and Thomson are hiring in september next year. And those are just the ones a small wannabee like me knows about.

Anyway that wasnt what i was asking at all, I wanted to know how much of a risk it is paying for the type rating and 6 months line training with Ryainair and Easyjet? I asked if anyone has concrete figures about the number of people that get the ultimate screw over by paying the $30k + and leaving after 6 months?
I was just using my friend as an example of someone it has worked out for, not fooling myself that every single person who does flight training ends up like him

[SupaMach]

Have you told Thomson they're going to recruit next September? I'm sure they'd love to be able to know in that much detail, so far in advance!!

Jet2 are recruiting currently.

Haven't heard of any Ryanair orders..


Anyway, Ryanair is not a 6 month contract. You sign it for 5 years and have to pay to get out.

easyJet is not a 6 month either.. though it depends when you join. Look at it more as a "one season" contract initially. Most to Oct 2011 at the moment, so 12 months for those starting now.

I doubt you will find any figures of how many get the boot. It isn't in their interests to publish them. Theres a lot of going into things blind these days, and it is all a big gamble. The training in the first place with someone like OAA is a gamble.. but for the lucky ones, it has paid off.

Good luck & be careful of viewing things with rose tinted glasses. The market isn't saturated, but it is certainly hard to get your foot on the first rung of the ladder.

[hollingworthp]

It wasn't too long ago that you found numerous postings on here claiming FR is/was a ratings factory and was out to profit on the ratings fee alone by cutting their Brookfield FO's after 6 months. I think that is what laakdown is referring to. If that is or ever did happen, you would expect at least a few if not 100's of bitter resentful postings on here all about it. I don't recall seeing 1 such post in the last few years.

[laakdown]

That is what im referring to thank you hollingworth. I just need to know whether its likely i would be paying for a long term job or a 6 month contract.
I dont know why ryanair would want to hide these figures, being the busiest airline in Europe i doubt skimming a few k off the top of the cost of training is a major revenue stream for them, and a success rate of 80% + would surely attract more people to apply for them increasing their talent pool

[SupaMach]

Fair enough.

Though I think 95% of grads I know have applied to FR. I don't think they need to attract more!