Help! I don't know what to take!!

[Hannah222]

Ok, Im in year 11 at school and desperately want to be a pilot. Since my birthday in June I've done 4 hours flying and am going again this month. I joined air cadets and I've also started reading the aviaton law book and the flying training book. I went to look around sixth form today and am wondering the type of subjects proffesional pilots have taken that have helped them to get their job. Obviously I'm going to do maths and physics a-level but I have two more choices. I was thinking french and electronics but the teacher there didn't seem to think french would help with the pilot idea nor did he think i was serious (as im a girl i think!) So...what subjects should I take or do french and electronics sound good? My mum isn't much help- she laughed as soon as I said pilot to the maths teacher and dad has no idea- he didn't do a levels. Sorry its so long but I would like help- the careers people at school aren't pilots like you guys (and girls!!) are haha also I'm predicted pretty much straight a* for the end of this year so I don' think I should find the subjects impossible! Thanks again xx

[Jimmy5]

Hi Hannah. In my opinion the best advice is simply to do subjects you're going to enjoy. In reality you'll never have to use mathematics much beyond GCSE anyway and the other technical subjects involved in triaining arn't too in depth there is just a lot to learn. I think a language is a fantastic idea, always helps to be flexible when looking for work. You seem to know what you want to do so do the subjects you'll have fun with, give yourself a back up plan and keep the pilot study going as much as poss throughout your A-Levels.

Best of luck.

[redsnail]

Do subjects that you enjoy and are likely to succeed in.

I didn't do my schooling here so I am sure someone who's familiar with the system will answer.

Maths is useful.
Physics as well, but don't sweat it if you haven't selected it.
French language is very useful, especially flying in France and North Africa...

[Dignerf]

I've started my PPL lessons and have so far done 35 hours, so unfortunately my experience is limited!

At A-level I did Maths, Physics, Biology and, for the first year, Computing. I then did a degree in Maths.

I would say that out of all my subjects, A-Level Physics has been by far the most useful. The Mathematics you study at A level reaches far beyond what a pilot is required to do, (you're not exactly going to be sat in your cockpit trying to figure out a very difficult Mathematical equation). That said, I would still recommend doing Maths if that's what you fancy. The more Mathematically fluent you are, the better!

As for French, I was under the impression that all communication done in Aviation is in English. If this is not the case then I bow to superior knowledge!

As for anything else, you will be required to learn it as part of your pilot examinations anyway, so what you choose at A level isn't overly important!

Hope that helps

[paco]

"As for French, I was under the impression that all communication done in Aviation is in English. If this is not the case then I bow to superior knowledge!"


To everyone else in aviation, yes, but not necessarily to customers! Only 21% of the world speaks English. I would say do the French, then Spanish will come easier later on (just add an o to the end of each word :)). As long as you're doing physics, maths/electronics are not as important.

A cheap upgrade for a low hour pilot is a second or even a third language. I know one senior pilot who speaks 6 languages and is never out of work.

Phil

[G SXTY]

Hannah – you have come to the right place to ask these questions. Teachers and careers advisers generally have zero knowledge of what's involved in becoming a commercial pilot – apart from perhaps entry requirements for the occasional sponsorship schemes.

I did A-level physics, and found the experience very useful when studying for my ATPL theory exams. It's not vital, and you could certainly get by without it – just nice to have under your belt. I failed A-level maths, which matters not, as the maths you'll use in the flight deck is barely GCSE level. Seriously – simple adding and subtracting, and the three times table – that's about it. In fact, most of the technical / academic knowledge required is around GCSE level. Believe it or not, of the subjects you mention, French would probably be the most practical use in everyday airline operations. Many of us fly into regional French airfields where the ground staff speak very limited English, not to mention half your passengers who can't understand a word. And French is most certainly an aviation language, and is widely used on the radio across the Channel. Controllers will speak English to non French pilots, but can and will converse in French with their countrymen. For self preservation as much as anything else, it's nice to know the French for "takeoff" and "land" when you're about to taxy across an active runway at Paris CDG . . . :ooh:

As others have said, the best bet is to choose subjects you enjoy and are likely to do well at. When you're starting your career, without much life or work experience to talk about, academic grades are one of the few ways of differentiating between CVs.

And as for laughing at the idea of a 'girl' learning to fly – yeah, right. My female PPL instructor was (is) one of the most professional instructors I have ever met. Nearly 10% of the pilots at my airline are women, and if you're good enough to jump all the hoops and get through training, you're good enough to fly an airliner. End of story.

Best of luck with the A-levels.

[redsnail]

Not all coms is in English.
In France, even going into LFPG you'll hear French just as commonly as English. Very very annoying for SA.

If you fly into a regional French field, as G-SXTY has said, nearly all the coms will be in French with the broken English spoken to you.

North Africa is very similar. French is their main aviation language, followed by English.

English is not the only ICAO language.

[punk666]

I wouldnt waste your time with A-levels try and do a Btec course in aerospace engineering or just engineering in general.

Its a good back up plan and the knowledge you get from it is very useful.

I did a Btec course in Aerospace engineering and I learnt alot...for example A-level maths and science, electronics, sheet metal work, and just general aircraft maintenance and inspection.

But if you cant do that then I would try and get a job in the industry, without money you wont be a pilot full stop regardless of the A-levels you have. Before anyone says anything I know itsharsh but lets be realistic.

I would suggest becoming a dispatcher or even cabin crew just so you can get a feel of how things are done on the line and also you will be earning money which is nice plus you will be making friends which can more than likely get you into the right places to get a job.

For example my pilot friend join Qatar as CC and now they have offered him a second officer job even though the requirements for that position is quite high for the average pilot he got it with 250-300 hours.

[stevop21]

Hi Hannah,

I am in a similar position to you but I am in year 12 so just started my A Levels. I am taking maths, physics, geog and spanish. I spoke with a BA pilot who said physics is useful for the ground school however the level of maths you need like many people have already said is very basic but nevertheless the a level is a nice qualification to have under your belt. (next time you are on a flight ask to go into the flightdeck, I have never been refused and the pilots have always been happy to answer my questions) As for the geog and spanish I took these because I enjoyed them the most.
Yeh careers people don't know what they are on about, I found it hard to keep a straight face when one said there are plently of jobs around!!! :ok:

I think the hardest part for us now is getting into the industry. I'm sure you are aware about all these stupid parc and flexicrew contracts for the big airline in orange. We can only hope the industry picks up a bit, but even if it does I still think they are here to stay, as long as they get enough morons our age (in a few years time) willing to fork out 30k for 6 months flying the bus....... We can have a shot at the Cathay and Etihad schemes but the competition is so fierce. One thing I can say for certain is I will not touch P2F and why anyone would is beyond me... they are destroying their own future as they support it, the airlines will keep on doing it, replacing them with cheaper cadets and then they will ahve no where to go. No job and 30k down the drain (+ however much the integrated course was which could well have been funded by a house remorgage) It seems like a vicous circle to me

I am thinking about cabin crew first as you would be able to make some good contacts, as aviation is all about who you know.

Good luck and hope to see you in the skies a few years down the line

Cheers,

Steve

[Piltdown Man]

Here's some negative advice - be prepared to fail. By that I mean, think about what you would do if you couldn't go flying and do that to the very best of your ability. Keep yourself fit. Participate and extra-curicular activities like Scouts, ATC, Dance Clubs, Birdwatching, Football. Read a quality newspaper. As for subject - French, you bet! Also science subjects plus maths and English. Try for University and go to a services recruitment office and pick their brains. At university, join a UAS. On leaving apply for a flying job with one of the services. If you don't get in, you'll be a balanced, mature, well read person who'll be employable. If you do get accepted, well you've done it.

PM

[Hannah222]

haha i wondered how long it would take before someone would mention the negative!! and steve i've never heard of Cathay and Etihad schemes- what are they? im glad you all seem to think french is ok because i did want to take that one but i dropped german in year 9 so I won't be able to do 6 languages haha I wasn't really thinking of university as its so expensive - I'd rather spend the money on a flying course. Yes i think I will speak to a pilot next time were on holiday but I dunno when that will be...shame! I can't find any colleges near me who offer the btec in aerospace engineering but I'll keep looking! Yeah I do lots of after school stuff- piano, guides, rainbows, air cadets, tae-kwon-do and I've done my bronze d of e so that's good. :) I think I've gone off the idea of electronics- it seems really confident and I don't think its going to help me much. Which still leaves me with one more subject to take and i don't think I want to do further maths!! I'm guessing I can choose any as physics and maths are the only really helpful ones. Thanks for your replys xx

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

I think geography would be a good choice as well :8

[Piltdown Man]

I wasn't trying to be funny or negative - just realistic and helpful. I tried.

PM

[BoeingDreamer]

"Piltdown Man" Prepared to fail - don't agree. At 15, there is plenty of time to achieve any goal you wish. Nothing is impossible, and to have in your mind the motto " prepared to fail" is counter productive.

[wiggy]

Interesting opinions, with the benefit of a very old ATPL dare I butt in?

GCSE plus in Maths? Yes. Physics? Yes - . Not necessarily to degree level, but sure as heck makes the ATPL studies easier....and you need to be numerate every day in this job.

Foreign Language? Nice to have, shows a well rounded education, nice to roll out at interview but frankly even if you speak French ( and yes, I do), you would not be using when airborne with a UK Airline, even operating into France/Algeria etc.

Geography? Again nice to have but not needed at all on the flightdeck.

As for Piltdown Man's advice about being prepared to fail, he talks a lot of sense. Not everybody makes it through flying training , so subject to the caveats that you really should do Maths and Physics, pack the rest of your CV with subjects and interests you enjoy and are good at, and make sure you have a backstop should the flying not work out.

[Piltdown Man]

Maybe I was being too subtle - by preparing to fail, you have fully prepared to pass as well. When flying, you make damn sure you have Plan B (and maybe even Plan C) before you commit to Plan A. And good pilots are good at many other things as well. A one song, single track, totally focussed "pilot" is generally a rubbish pilot, a total bore to be with in flight and they are often social pariahs.

But what do I know? Well I've got the job you want...

Nothing is impossible

Not so - we don't live in a fair world and we haven't all been dealt a fair hand of cards. In the UK now we a larger social disparity between the top few per cent and the lower 20%. Thanks to a previous government it is almost impossible to move from the lower social ranks to the higher ones. We were also born unequal, take for example my eldest son. It is most unlikely he'll ever fly due to his eyesight.

Then we have some simple things. Flying training is expensive stuff. I'm not sure of Hannah222's background but unless she can get in excess of £130,000 to fund her dream, a career in flying will probably not happen. She is also unlikely to be sponsored as a cadet unless her English improves. An alternative route would be the the Services. They spend millions on training each one of their pilots. They require a high degree of competence in English, if for no other reason than that is how we communicate. When you are in charge of a vital operational asset, communication is vital. The documentation and briefing packages must also be fully understood, unfortunately even down to the bloody commas! Poor English skills, unless you are rich, means flying is probably impossible. This isn't the X-Factor.

PM

[stevop21]

Hannah, the etihad and cathay cadet schemes are sponsorsed cadet schemes which will enable you to be a pilot, cathay are always accepting applications but etihad accept now and then (there latest period has finished)

Here is a link to the cathay one Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/cadetpilot)

So much info here on pprune for the schemes

Cathay http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/378978-cathay-pacific-cadet-pilot-programme.html

Etihad http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/428263-etihad-international-cadet-programme.html

[Hannah222]

Yeah I thought about geography but i dropped it in year 9 as i didn't like it so probably won't be taking that at a level! Piltdown man- I know it's expensive if I didn't I wouldn't be so fussed about choosing the right subjects if I could pay for it myself. At the moment Im having a lesson a month with money from my paper round as my mum won't "waste" money on lessons. She's so negative about the whole flying thing :( Dad thinks I should be an accountant or work in an office like he and mum do but I don't want to do that- it seems so boring! And, what do you mean about improving my english skills? I'm good at english. Also, I don't want to join the RAF- I'm not that sort of person.
I followed your links and the cathay scheme sounds really good so I asked mum can I go work in Hong Kong and she says "no. Who would let a 20 year old fly planes?" Arghh- she's so annoying!!
The other one says you have to be a UAE national which is no good unless I read it wrong?
As for backups, I'm not sure really. If I was taking electronics maybe an engineer or mechanic but I'm not sure. Preferably it would be something aviation related! Any ideas? x

[stevop21]

Yes, currently is is only UAE nationals but periodically it is opened up internationally, and yes the Cathay scheme does seem good. Although as I have said competition is incredibly fierce. I'm also not an RAF person either!!! I will apply to both of these schemes once I am elegible

[redsnail]

Hannah, contact the BWPA (http://www.bwpa.co.uk/) and GAPAN (http://www.gapan.org/)

I am a member of the BWPA.
They can offer you unbiased advice and there is some financial help available.

[duxfordflyer]

I took german at school and then took (amongst others) Photography a-level which was well worthwhile as it allowed me to have a bit of fun time at college. I dont think it really matters, as long as your maths is alright, just try and get some good grades in whatever you study. I speak german pretty well after working in Austria last year, that will be useful as I understand that the best recruitment chances (within europe) are in germany at present. Good luck!

[lilflyboy262]

Hannah, Im going to do my best to help point you in the right direction. I know its been a bit different for me as I have come from New Zealand, am a male, and have had parents that have supported me all the way since the dream of flying began (Aged 7!)

The main subjects that you will need for any of the cadet courses generally are English, Maths, Physics. Take those and you will have no worries about your applications for them.
In my quest to find work around the world, I found it was very helpful to know another language.
Example, In Namibia they would prefer that you knew German. In Angola, Portugese. In Congo, French.
It would be beneficial for you to learn one.
After that, do whatever you want to do!

Electronics is always a good career move to fall back on as it opens up into a whole world of things like Avionics. If there is something that pops up unexpectedly in your medical, its always nice to still be able to work around your dream.

I would also look at getting a class 1 medical done sometime in the near future. It will pull up any issues with your health before you commit yourself to flying.
The class 1 is only valid for a year, but you also get issued with a class 2, which is valid for 5. It will cover you right up to your Private pilots licence.

If flying is what you really want to do, then you are unfortunately going to have to ignore what your parents think. It is a long road. And it is a hard road. And it might take you years to get there. But just stick at it.
Once you get there, make sure that you don't get disheartened if you can't find a job straight away.
Its not like that where you step straight out into the pointy end of a nice piece of metal.
Im currently bombing around Botswana in C206's building my experience up.

Your obviously a smart girl as you are figuring your way without guidence, have you perhaps asked the local flying school if they could let you work there, sweeping hangers and washing planes, helping with paper work, and in return, being paid with flights?
When there is nothing else to do, ask the instructors if you can sit in on their lectures with other students so you can learn the theory side of flying for free.
If anything, it will help feed the fire to become a pilot when you are stuck on the ground wishing you were up there!


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!