Monarch Airlines

[JASPA]

Hiya folks

Does anybody know if Monarch are recruiting this winter.

[gunka]

Heard about 10 positions going on A320 in Manc. The catch is they want type rated people to go on a permanent but part year contract, probably 8 on 4 off. It's this or they will just call CTC

[Blighty Pilot]

The union will push for a 9 on 3 off contract for 84% pay of a full time F/O. This is still yet to be decided and confirmed but 9 on 3 off sounds like a good option knowing how hard they work at Manch.

In anticipation of it being the next question a FULL TIME F/O starting pay is: £47305.

I therefore make a 9 on 3 off contract worth £39736pa and the 8 on 4 off option is approx £3200pa less.

[Coffin Corner]

If they were/ever to go with non TR pilots do they bond or expect you to pay for it?

[Blighty Pilot]

3 year linear decreasing bond of 18k I think :-s

[WindSheer]

Am I reading that correctly......9 on 3 off.....84% salary.....:confused:

I thought Monarch was one of the 'other' airlines! :eek:

[Desk-pilot]

Can anyone shed any light on the lifestyle per month/week during the 9 months on?

days of per month
Sectors/day
Nightstops
etc.

[Blighty Pilot]

9 months On / 3 months Off

It's different to a part time contract in that you will still be contracted to 90 flying hours per 28 days (100 if you choose to do overtime/day off working payments, DOWP for F/O = £412).

2 Sector days.

F/O Sector pay = £4.15 per Block Hour
PLUS
F/O Duty pay = £2.85 per Duty Hour

3 consecutive early starts as a maximum but this can be split by an 0700 start. An Early Start Duty commences in the period 0500 to 0659 hours local time.

2 consecutive night duties as a maximum. A duty is a Night Duty if any part of that duty falls within the period 0200 to 0459 hours local time.

Variable roster, no fixed pattern. Can expect to do 4 or 5 on with 2 off OR 6 on with 3 off.

If on a day off you have to finish duty by 2100L the night before and cannot start before 0800L the day after. Days off only count towards the monthly 10 days off if they are in blocks of 2 days together.

Basically ZERO nightstops.

[JASPA]

If your in the pool but do not have a rating is there any chance over ctc

[CarbHeatIn]

If I understand correctly, you may end up working 810 hours per year. ( 9 x 90) which is 90% of the legal maximum for 84% of the salary?

That's ignoring any leave; assuming it's 75% of the full time entitlement pro-rata? Are there leave day payments?

[Blighty Pilot]

Here a copy of the current pilots agreement - I think the 8 on 4 off OR 9 on 3 off option will be lifted directed from this:


MONARCH AIRLINES
AGREEMENT TO VARY THE STATEMENT OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT FOR PILOTS TO INCORPORATE ARRANGEMENTS FOR PART-YEAR WORKING
PREAMBLE
1. Part-year working will be on a voluntary basis and provides an opportunity for Pilots to work full-time during the summer months (May to October inclusive) and to take unpaid leave in the winter months. As an incentive for Pilots to take up the scheme, remuneration will be higher than it would be had it been pro-rated according to the duration of part-year leave taken. Additionally, remuneration will be spread evenly throughout the 12 month period, the reduced salary commencing during the first month of part-year leave. The minimum period of working part-year will be 12 months including a complete summer season.
2. There will be five available options:

7 On 5 Off Option comprising a seven month full-time period which will include the months of May to October inclusive and a five month continuous period selected from the months November to April inclusive. Remuneration will be 70% of full-time pay throughout the 12 month period.

8 On 4 Off Option comprising an eight month full-time period which will include the months of May to October inclusive and a four month continuous period selected from the months November to April inclusive. Remuneration will be 77.3% of full-time pay throughout the 12 month period.

9 On 3 Off Option comprising a nine month full-time period which will include the months of May to October inclusive and a three month continuous period selected from the months November to April inclusive. Remuneration will be 84% of full-time pay throughout the 12 month period.

10 On 2 Off Option comprising a ten month full-time period which will include the months of May to October inclusive and a two month continuous period selected from the months November to April inclusive. Remuneration will be 90% of full-time pay throughout the 12 month period.

Alternate month option for Pilots electing to take option (iii) or (iv) above they may also request to split the off period and work alternate month-on month-off. If this option is approved the off months must be selected from November, January and March.


8. LEAVE
(a) Pilots working within the provisions of this Agreement shall be entitled to the following amounts of leave to be taken within the working period of their Part- Year Working Year:

(i) 7 On 5 Off Option:18 Days (ii) 8 On 4 Off Option: 20 Days (iii) 9 On 3 Off Option: 23 Days (iv) 10 On 2 Off Option: 25 Days

(of which 8 shall be in lieu of Bank and Public Holidays), with pay during each year of service, to be taken at such time or times (not being of less than one week's duration each) as may be mutually agreed between the Company and the Pilot, except that at 10 days of this annual leave shall be granted in the summer period, which for the purposes of these conditions shall be from the week commencing the first Saturday in May to the week commencing the second Saturday in October. Leave must be taken in 5 day blocks (with two days off attached to both ends of each block). Days that are left over must be attached to winter leave or can be attached to the start or end of the PYW block. If the Pilot and the Company agree that the Pilot will take one week less summer leave the Pilot will be entitled to take the week and an extra weeks’ leave in the following winter. This extra leave is not a normal entitlement and cannot be carried forward from one leave year to another.

9. PAYMENT DURING SICKNESS OR DISABILITY
Payment during sickness and during disability other than disability arising out of an accident shall be made for the periods laid down in Schedule 'B'. The maximum entitlements to payments of salary during periods of sickness or disablement will include both the working months and the part-year leave months.

UNIFIED ANNUAL SALARY SCALE
Pilots working within the provisions of this Agreement will receive:
(i) 7 On 5 Off Option: 70.0%
(ii) 8 On 4 Off Option: 77.3%
(iii) 9 On 3 Off Option: 84.0%
(iv) 10 On 2 Off Option: 90.0%

of the rates of pay detailed in Schedule A, as amended, appropriate to their Grade,Scale and Rank.

2. FLYING HOURS The salary scales in paragraph 1 above are associated with the following restrictions
on flying hours:
(i) The maximum annual flying hours specified in the Company’s Scheme for the Regulation of Flight Times for Pilots working under the provisions of this Agreement shall be as follows:

(a) 7 On 5 Off Option: 525 hours (b) 8 On 4 Off Option: 600 hours (c) 9 On 3 Off Option: 675 hours (d) 10 On 2 Off Option: 750 hours

(ii) The maximum flying hours per rolling 28 day period specified in the Company's Scheme for the Regulation of Flight Times for Pilots working under the provisions of this Agreement shall be 90 hours. The 90 hour restriction shall not apply to any Pilots who have flown less than 26 sectors in the rolling 28-day period.

3. DAYS OFF AT ASSIGNED OR TEMPORARY BASE
Refer to the Pilot Scheduling Agreement for details of entitlement to Days Off.
During the part-year leave period, the Company will not require the Pilot to undertake any duties, except due to unforeseen circumstances where an unplanned or delayed duty extends beyond the planned start of the part-year leave period. In this event compensating Days Off will be allocated at the end of the part-year leave abutting the leave period, except by mutual agreement with the Pilot.


OTHER MISCELLANEOUS CHANGES

Death in Service Benefit
For all Pilots who are members of the Defined Contribution Pension Scheme or in receipt of the supplementary payment for Pilots aged 55 and over, this will be at the rate of 4 times the annual full-time salary appropriate to the individual’s grade, scale and rank.
For Pilots who commenced permanent employment on or after 1 November 2004 and who are not members of the Defined Contribution Pension Scheme, this will be at the rate of 1 times the annual full-time salary appropriate to the individual’s grade, scale and rank.

Payment for Day Off Working
Pilots are not permitted to nominate days within their part-year leave period as Flexi Days. However, exceptionally the Company may request that a Pilot works within his part-year leave block. In this case for each day worked the Pilot will receive a Day Off Working Payment according to the rules given in the Scheduling Agreement AND a Day Off in lieu in the following working part of the part-leave year.

Part-Year Leave Periods The available part-year leave periods are as follows (all dates inclusive):
1. 7 On 5 Off Option:1 November – 31 March 1 December – 30 April
2. 8 On 4 Off Option:1 November – 28 February 1 December – 31 March 1 January – 30 April
3. 9 On 3 Off Option:1 November – 31 January 1 December – 28 February 1 January – 31 March 1 February – 30 April
4. 10 On 2 Off Option:1 November – 31 December 1 December – 31 January 1 January – 28 February 1 February – 31 March
1 March – 30 April
5. Alternate Months Option
Any Pilot opting for the 9/3 or 10/2 option may request to take the time off in alternate months at the discretion of the Company. The working months must include;December February

[Serenity]

Sounds like some great deals available, much better than many being offered or forced!!

Not sure how impressed management will be with you have published the Current pilots agreement for the world to see!!!

[No Country Members]

Who cares what management thinks, it's an us and them industry, always has been.:E

[Blighty Pilot]

I've only published the bits that will be of interest to the potential new joiners/recruits. There are no secrets in there and nothing that is commercially sensitive.
Like I said earlier I am purely speculating that they will make any recruitment offers on the current PYW options that are in place for the work force.

If the PYW option seems attractive to people who are wishing to apply, and the management get bums on seats under their terms to fly their aircraft then I very much doubt they will mind the information being made available to people.

[SupaMach]

Hey Guys,

Any ideas on the min experience on type that they are looking for?

Regards!

[Blighty Pilot]

The best thing to do is keep an eye out on the website for details. The application form will be electronic and online as the company no longer accepts C.V's.
In the past they have asked for 2500 hours TT or 500 hours on a company aircraft type. I have no idea what the minimum requirements will be this time round.

Good luck as and when - It is a good company to work for and has a fantastic bunch of people to work with.

[SupaMach]

Thank you!

All the best!

[ATC83]

Any full time Monarch pilots on here that can answer the following...

What is the take home pay with everything included/tax deducted?
How long is command in Monarch at the moment?
How long is it until Mixed fleet flying is available?

Thanks

[36050100]

Not sure how impressed management will be with you have published the Current pilots agreement for the world to see!!!

Has anyone ever asked to be supplied with a copy of the Pilots Agreement of an airline they were being interviewed for ?

People ask questions at interview about this or that in the contract. If management thought they were such a great company to work for they could supply this information to the interviewee and save both parties some time.

I suspect however that anyone one asking for such information might be viewed with some suspicion, but why ?

[411A]

Monarch.

During the late 1990's I operated many flights subservice for Monarch with L1011 aircraft, on an as needed basis.

From what I could see of their operations, they were very professional in every respect (especially their dispatch department)...first calss folks.

[Easy Ryder]

MFF??!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

a new joiner now would be waiting over 20-25 yrs to fly mix fleet!

Command 10 (if your lucky) -15yrs (more likely)

Of course this could all change if there was a massive fleet order... wouldn't bet on it though

[ATC83]

haha! I guessed so! Don't suppose you know what the monthly take home pay is in year 1 at all do you (roughly)? I'm talking about say a 70-80hr month as average.

ta

[MANTFS]

There is a new Head of Pilot Management in position now so the interview process may change, it used to be a fairly informal affair.

[Blighty Pilot]

Recruitment isn't the Head of Pilot Managements domain. It used to be Deputy Chief Pilots remit but I understand it now falls under the new Head of Trainings responsibility. The gentleman in question has sat on the top floor for many years and has been involved in recruitment for as long as I can remember. Like most things in Monarch I can't see the process changing over night and the current recruitment is likely to be subject to the previous format.

[JASPA]

So where do folks in the pool stand, starting to drown

[Rarely]

Type of q's asked when I joined spotty M (many years ago) all pointed to one thing- Could I sit in the same office as you for 8 hours and not be bored by you!

Seriously - a lot of recent Management and training posts have been interviewed for and HR have got their claws into them so don't be surprised if reasoning and HR type questions appear this year. So be prepared!

However it goes - good luck, despite some of it's failings (and increasingly intensive rostering) it is still one of the happiest company's to work for.

[Lubeoil]

Sorry chaps. Am I missing something? Seems to be a whole 2 page thread on Monarch recruitment however when I look on their website it states that there is a "recruitment freeze" for pilots. Is there actually any recruitment or is this all speculation?

[Serenity]

What interviews??
No application form to fill out on website, or are you just hoping??

[adwjenk]

Rumour has it that the recruitment has all been done via word of mouth!
The 10 or so pilots they are looking at taking onto the 9/3 contracts, will be type rated pilots, then Ctc cadets if they cannot get enough TR pilots.

I guess it guys and girls who know someone in the company, or happened to send their cv in at the right time, and they are airbus rated! Nothing appeared on the company website, I check nearly every day but nothing has changed in months!

Would give me right nut to work for Monarch in EGCC, but 2200TT and Boeing rated I won't stand a chance!

Congrats and good luck to everyone going for interviews!

[ATC83]

How easy is it to change between bases once you are in Monarch? Also I asked previously, but just wondering what the realistic time to command is at MON

Ta

[ATIS]

Base transfers are usually accomplished after couple of years service. And its usually the CTC guys who are asking for the transfers as they are not given a choice on joining. However as stated above this years intake are going to MAN for sure. Previously on your application form you had two choices to make. My course of 17 people were all assigned their 1st choice. But that was when Monarch was expanding. Which brings me onto the 2nd question. The last person to get a command completed 3yrs service. But as expansion has halted you're looking at 7-10 yrs.

[Captain Spam Can]

doesnt look like there was any recruitment

[MANTFS]

Why do you say that? - I understand some offers went out yesterday!

[partsvn]

Great Airline. Had 16 happy years with them albeit a while back. Long may they continue in their quiet no nonsense fashion.

[Arrestahook]

ATC83, here we go some of your questions answered, take home pay depends on if you pay into the company pension or not. You have to put in 8.3% of your salary to get a 12.5% contribution from the company. If you put in 10% your take home pay in year one would be about £2800 per month depending on how many flights you did. Even working your tits off you will struggle to to break 3k a month.
Time to command and long haul on the 330 is a moveable feast, five years ago guys were getting onto the long haul fleet within 18 months of joining and as previously stated time to command came down to three years. However with the recession no one has been taken on in the last three years or so and combined with the retirement age increasing to 65 it means there is just no movement in the company, the old boys are onto a good thing and no one can blame them for staying. As a result time to command has gone to about 10 years and Mixed fleet flying is anyones guess. This will all change though as when the market picks up there will always be a batch of FO's who will leave for the legacy airlines, the company will get extra aircraft and all of a sudden you're into a phase of expansion. So I'd say keep positive and keep applying. It's still a good place to work, mainly though due to the guys and gals that work there.

[Captain Spam Can]

so i take it nothing was advertised and it was all word of mouth, as ive been checking flight int., MON webste and pprune for weeks!!:\

[Arrestahook]

I suspect it has spam as they've been talking about the 10-12 joining next year for quite some time so I rekkon they've already been selected, vetted and signed on for next spring, hence no obvious recruitment.
But, Monarch is down one aircraft from summer 08 and the existing crews were very stretched this summer, there is no doubt that there aren't really enough pilots to fill the program, there have been a record number of day off payments this year and no end of flights in the peak weeks weren't crewed till the 11th hour. I think the company are waiting to see what the bookings look like for next year before they decide whether they need the 31st aircraft back on the fleet and the pilots to fly it.
I don't think i'd be shot down by anyone for saying that Monarch will never lead the way in preparing for an upturn, they will only react to it. It is coming however and there will be a requirement for new blood, it was not that long ago that they were taking guys with 600 hours on a dash 8, so even if you're not type rated on the 320, don't worry times will change.

[Captain Spam Can]

Arrestahook, cheers for that update looks like the previous swimmers have been taken out of the pool to dry off and rightly so i guess....good luck to them:ok:

[ATC83]

Thanks Arrestahook

Some very useful info! One thing I notice is that everyone seems pretty happy in MON - these forums are full of moaners in every airline but it seems MON must be good cause I can't find any on here!:ok:

The £2800 you mention - is that on these new 9/3 contracts or is that for a full time wage?

Thanks

[flyboyweeksy]

I believe offers have been sent/acknowledged to the lucky few who will be joining us in March next year on the a320/1 fleet @ MAN

[Arrestahook]

ATC 2800 is a full time wage so expect it to be nearer to 2500 on the 9/3 contract. You could make that nearer to 3k by not putting into the company DC pension, but then you are turning down free money in the long run!

[SEAMASTER]

£2800 will be on the part year contract, average is 3400 to 3700, much more if you want to do overtime. Thats what my payslips say anyway !

[hapzim]

Is that gross or net ?

[SEAMASTER]

net all in inc flt pay and duty pay.

[Arrestahook]

Christ Seamaster, I've been here for donkeys years and not earned that without day off payments or lots of voyage. Either Im being done or your a senior F/O and not paying into the pension scheme which is not very representative of what these guys can expect.

[ATC83]

Thanks for all the info guys - I did work it out to be somewhere between 2500 - 3000 so you have confirmed roughly what I was thinking to expect.

How often does the overtime come up at the Manch base? I suppose if you could maybe have the option to do one day overtime per month then that brings the salary up quite a bit - £412 gross I believe per day?

[MANTFS]

This year you could have done as much O/T as you wanted as Manchester was severely under crewed. Next year will depend on how many pilots the company employ and where. The Scheduling agreement allows for 2 days per month to be sold.

[ATC83]

Cheers MANTFS :ok:

[slowjet]

Second that. Had the chance to join them on the B720, gosh, decades ago. Went to Laker instead. Still regretting the decision. Get in if you can, anyway. Super company and great chaps running it.

[alpha.charlie]

anyone get hired then?

[Striker1812]

Yes ,I got hired for start date of 1st March at Manchester

[A320novice]

Striker,

Congrats on getting in.:D

How long after the interview did they let you know? Still waiting to hear whether I got through or not...

[mototopo]

Hi everybody,
Is there any application form to fill or is the mail enough for them?

Greetz! :ok:

[GorgeousGeorge]

Striker - Congratulations on getting in. I will also be there on the 1st March, based at Manchester. :D

A320novice - I found out the day after my interview, although I think I was one of the last to interview.

[McBruce]

How long ago were the interviews?

[Mintflavour]

They just offered 10 or 11 guys. Are they doing more interviews?

[Fuel Crossfeed]

They just offered 10 or 11 guys. Are they doing more interviews?

Rumours in the crew rooms are they have taken on 10 F/O's for MAN base.
According to Union figures this summer the company is short of 12 F/O's.
I'm not sure if that 12 figure includes the resignations the company has already received from those off to the Middle East.
So that is still 2 F/O's short already. :ugh:
I expect there will be some losses from those off to BA/Vs and maybe more to the Middle East, so I expect they might have to take on a few more.
Or they will just flog the rest of us to death, with roster disruption,max hours and minimum rest.
But at least there is the lure of dayoff payments!! :rolleyes:

[mototopo]

Is there any application form to fill or the email with CV is just enough?

Thanks!

[Cloud Chaser]

Were these ten part of that CTC P2F scheme or how did they get in, the online application has been closed for well over a year now???

[spottyemm]

Not CTC P2F pilots. The CC were strongly against this and I suspect that management pilots would rather not go down this route if they can convince the beancounters...it seems they were able to on this occasion.

I understand that many of the guys were ctc pilots we had to let go a few years ago (the first time we have done that and I believe that only 2 pilots have been made redundant in the entire 40 yr history of the company). Most of them managed to get jobs with Lingus but it will be really nice to welcome them back as they are good guys.

A personal recommend to the chief pilot goes a long way with Monarch. I would guess that the Chief Pilot has enough of these to fill any more recruiting this year. Might be worth sending a cv in if you have an A320 rating and a mate in the company who is willing to give you a recommend.

[adwjenk]

And for non type rated jet drivers over 2,000 hrs, any chance for the future?

[RHINO]

Most of the guys are coming from Easy Jet.

[spottyemm]

The CC are in a meeting with management today. Knowing how Monarch work I wouldn't expect a decision on recruiting until well into January. The company will also know how many guys are off to BA by then and can recruit accordingly.

Rumour is the 757s are likely to be busy but I guess that plenty of A320 drivers will try to get back on the Boeing...

[A320.1B]

Do you think there may be any chance of jobs going LGW? Surely there must be guys from there leaving to BA also?

[Fuel Crossfeed]

The company will also know how many guys are off to BA by then
I’m not sure the company will know by then.
I have heard from a reliable source within BA that their selection sim rides are booked up until the end of Jan, so rides will be ongoing through Feb & March.

[punk666]

SW1

May I ask why did you delete your post regarding your interview with Monarch last week?

[Superpilot]

Well done in any case SW1. There's hope for me yet! :ok:

[adwjenk]

Nice to see people are willing to pass on their knowledge and help to other people these days!

SW1 well done you have the job, what's wrong with telling others where you sent the cv?
Your not in the competition any more so nothing to lose, plus they still need to get past the selection process.

Anyway if anyones interested every time I sent a cv, it was by post to the chief pilot in Luton, always had a reply in time from someone on his admin team, nice to see a personal touch from an airline!

Last heard was type rated pilots only for the 9/3 contracts if there was not enough type rated then I heard rumours The gap would be filled by CTC cadets.

Ow well back to the Boeing for me...

Good luck and fly safe ow and Merry Christmas let's hope 2011 turns out to be a good year for aviation
:ok:

[punk666]

SW1

Good luck on the job hunt they look like a good airline to work for!
My misses works in the crewing dept and I have asked her to ask around about whats going on with Monarch.

[EK4457]

SW1,

(potentially) congratulations.

Just out of interest, are you an SSTR? Do you have any line hours and if so how did you get them?

Down the job centre since Sep 2008!

[adwjenk]

Sw1


Sorry mate sounded like you had the job, well fingers crossed for all who attended that you have sum great news for 2011!
:ok:

[JASPA]

Hiya folks

Is it just type rated peeps who have had the call any info is appreciated

Good luck

[mototopo]

Hi guys,
internet site doesn't mention any vacancy nor applcation forms, i sent my CV weeks ago to the Flt Ops Exec. Secretary but still no answer, maybe i'm not the right one but is there any alternate way to knock their door??

Thanks

[A320.1B]

"Theres definetly some big news happening around the penultimate week in January"

Maybe they are just waiting to do the rest of the interviews..

[Alloy]

10 has become 20 (plus), welcome to those joining!

[Mintflavour]

Is it all for the FBW fleet again?

[Striker1812]

10 has now become 20

Hi ,Are they all coming to start at Manchester or do you know if there is opportunities at Gatwick.

Cheers

[turbine100]

The recruitment website advises of a recruitment freeze under the pilot hiring section and theirs no application form.

How is everyone applying or is recommendation only?

[SW1]

Anymore recruitment likely? Will the 20 they have be sufficient? Or will they need anothe batch?

[alpha.charlie]

Looks like 8 CTC cadets will be joining Monarch soon.

[Iver]

Good on them. What aircraft type will they likely start on - A320 or 757?

[SW1]

Are those 8 you mention in addition to the 20 that have been taken on in the last 2 months?

[Mintflavour]

SW1
To Clarify, They have only taken on 10-12 so far (all on the bus).
They are looking at another 10-12 (possibly TR'ed CTC guys) to fill the gaps of coming resignations.

= total recruitment for this year of 22ish. As it stands at the moment all will be for the bus.

[SW1]

Thanks for that,

Does it look like a few people may be leaving? How about Type rated non- CTC bods?

Cheers

[Striker1812]

Have you had a interview sw1

[SW1]

Hi,

Yes I had an interview in mid december but was unsucessful. They said they would keep my records on file for any future recruitment opportunities, so just hoping they may be looking at recruiting more people.

[MANTFS]

22 TR guys are now being recruited and CTC to cover the resignations should anyone decide to jump ship to BA/Virgin

[Striker1812]

Is it felt that there will be many resignations?
I hear that BA/Virgin are struggling to get TR guys.

[BlackandBrown]

BA had 1400 applications in one week, how are they struggling?

[Brian Fantana]

I hear that BA/Virgin are struggling to get TR guys.


BA had 1400 applications in one week, how are they struggling?

Thread creep alert......
....I have heard Virgin have rejected A330 qualified guys too.

Now back to MON...

[Striker1812]

Fantana
I bow to your greater Knowledge you obviously are more well connected than I and have your ear very close to the ground

[Brian Fantana]

Striker
I probably have no greater knowledge - just lucky with people I know!
There is no need to bow :ok:

[mototopo]

Hi there,

Maybe it's too late but, did you applied through the internet site or emailed CV to someone?
I did with email but still no answer since December.. Maybe wrong person?

[mototopo]

Do you know how to send them CV was?

[drag king]

From PPJN page, date 07/12/11

Outlook:
30+ FO's needed for 2012, some possibly on the 757. 7/Dec/11

Their website says quite the opposite, though. Are they emptying the holding pool 1st or fishing those TCX-folks that fear for their jobs?

Is it correct to assume that the ONLY way to apply is through the website or is there a top-brass' email somewhere?

[Bealzebub]

Really? I didn't know that!

I knew that cadets were sourced through one company, however that isn't a "monopoly" position, as there are a number of schools that compete in this marketplace. One may be contracted at any given time, but just as with fuel suppliers, handling agents, caterers, etc. value is always under review.

Outside of the cadet requirement, "experienced" F/O's are recruited from the traditional sources and generally in accordance with the minimum levels of experience required, which are significantly in excess of what might be termed "low experience."

At the present time, recent commercial events have resulted in a number of qualified, current, type rated and experienced pilots being available in the marketplace. I am sure that a proportion of pilots from these sources are being considered for the current round of projected vacancies.

[SAS-A321]

Is it legal to be hiring, but not openly advertise it and make it free for all to apply?

[Bealzebub]

Yes it is! Unless the recruitment is in violation of any statutory requirement, such as the equality act of 2010 for example.

[angelorange]

"At the present time, recent commercial events have resulted in a number of qualified, current, type rated and experienced pilots being available in the marketplace. I am sure that a proportion of pilots from these sources are being considered for the current round of projected vacancies."

Sadly experienced operators are being overlooked in favour of MPL route - see recent adverts in Flight.

EZY, TCX, Flybe all prefer MPL/CTC/Oxford cadets not folk with existing aeronautical backgrounds.

If only there were a balanced approach - understand Jet2 take all varieties from Cadets to TREs that pass selection process.

[fmgc]

If only there were a balanced approach - understand Jet2 take all varieties from Cadets to TREs that pass selection process.

As do Monarch. A combination of experienced type rated pilots and CTC cadets.

[PaulW]

Yes but what about non type rated experienced pilots? Apart from pay to fly and cadets however can you change type? Or get out of the turboprop swamp? Where do you get the magic 500hrs on type..? All questions that frustrate experienced pilots that are attempting to climb a career ladder, where the steps have been removed. Monarch used to require 2500 turbine, that disappeared.

[fmgc]

You have to wait until all the type rated pilots have been employed.

It's tough for the airlines as well as for pilots looking for a better job. Airlines are not charities and if there are type rated people out there like the ex tcx and astreus why would an airline spend £20k type rating somebody.

Be patient. Things will get better and non type rated people will get employed.

[X-Centric]

fmgc - if you look at Jet2 they are doing just that - getting the right people they want , at the bases that they want - and are taking on ordinary cadets ( non Captains Taking Cash) , ground staff and turboprop people , and are to be highly commended for doing this . Granted , its only the experienced turboprop lot that are getting a good deal re £ + the rating , but as an airline they are certainly not waiting until all the type rated pilots have been employed - its quite a bold opening statement from you if i may say so !
Until recently MON would have done the same and got the right person in , now they're so skint after yet another family bailout , its just having the appropriate rating that gets you to the interview table - so "balanced approach" to recruitment ? , no way , not since the last Flybe fleecing about 5 years ago!

[SAS-A321]

As do Monarch. A combination of experienced type rated pilots and CTC cadets.

Well, it must be very few experienced and rated pilots since the application was not open for all!

[Bealzebub]

Well, it must be very few experienced and rated pilots since the application was not open for all!

No, fmgc is correct. For many years now it has been a combination of cadets from an extremely good tried and trusted source, together with a roughly equal mix of experienced pilots.

As you would expect, cadet entry pilots place heavy demands on the number of training tracks that are available. Experienced pilots less so, and experienced type rated pilots, very few.

I am not sure where you get the idea that the vacancies available are "not open to all"? The fleet office is awash with applications, and more arrive with every mail delivery. It is always a case of sending in a current CV, and as so often in life, it is sometimes simply a case of timing.

So I am afraid you are wrong on both counts.

[SAXONBLOKE]

if you look at Jet2 they are doing just that - getting the right people they want , at the bases that they want - and are taking on ordinary cadets ( non Captains Taking Cash) , ground staff and turboprop people , and are to be highly commended for doing this

Its a shame though that if you join type rated you're still fully bonded ! :rolleyes:
Jet 2 seem to have signed up to and set off down the road of the Ryanair 'revenue raising staff shafting' philosophy. How many grand do they charge cabin crew for the training course ?!
Good for them for not using CTC for cadtes even if they have another way of their own for shafting young keen wannabes.
Personally, I'd be a bit reluctant to commend Jet 2 for anything else about their employment affairs.

At least Mon are nothing like that, at least not yet anyway, but I'm sure in the fullness of time :\

[ATIS]

If anything Monarch are out to HELP the guys who have just lost their jobs prior to Christmas

[mudcity]

The current state of play at MON is that they are currently recruiting a small number of B757 rated pilots and there is a requirement for up to 30+ A320 pilots.
The FBW pilots will probably be 50/50 split of CTC cadets and experienced pilots.
As with any airline they will take advantage of the market conditions and look to source these from TCX /AEU if those pilots wish to come to MON. In addition even with the 9/3 contract on offer , MON's conditons are still attractive to EZY flex crew. If these sources dry up then they will turn -as before- to the non type rated pilots, but with a limited training resource it makes more sense to utilise type rated pilots if they are available and willing to join.

[Deano777]

Why have Monarch got limited training resources? They're a TRTO after all. Non type rated pilots are doomed, face it. CTC are taking over the world and as long as someone else is paying the training the airlines will NEVER go down the route of recruiting non type rated, no matter how desperate they are. This cancer will never go away.

[spider_man]

Is there a formal pilot recruitment process at MON, or just a CV to the chief pilot/fleet cpt?

[SAS-A321]

For many years now it has been a combination of cadets from an extremely good tried and trusted source, together with a roughly equal mix of experienced pilots.

...

I am not sure where you get the idea that the vacancies available are "not open to all"? The fleet office is awash with applications, and more arrive with every mail delivery. It is always a case of sending in a current CV, and as so often in life, it is sometimes simply a case of timing.

So I am afraid you are wrong on both counts.

I was talking about what Monarch is taking of pilots this year since you can find the following on the website:

Please note that at the moment there is a recruitment freeze and applications are not being accepted.

It is very hard to see that they are open for applications, but I guess that one should just ignore that and send an application via mail instead.

[Bealzebub]

Why have Monarch got limited training resources? They're a TRTO after all.

For the same reason that Oxford university (another training organisation) has limited vacancies each year. There are many other demands on an airline than simply type rating new applicants. The number of training captains available, simulator slot availability, aircraft availability, safety pilot provision. This is just a part of the constituents used to make up available training tracks. Those tracks then have to be allocated to internal fleet changes, promotions, combinations of the former. Add to that the intake of new cadets which places a heavy demand on those tracks, together with the vast number of routine LPC/OPC renewals, Category C training and checking etc.

The economics of how you match supply to demand doesn't allow for spare capacity that would simply be uneconomic outside of the peak (winter) recruitment and training season.

For an airline taking on experienced type rated people, the demand on the training tracks should be minimal. With cadets, the demand on those tracks is very high, but is offset by other economic benefits. Obviously in the middle (non type rated but otherwise experienced pilots) it is a very squeezed market. As fmgc has said, that may eventually change, but it is a fact of life in the current marketplace.

[fmgc]

As far as Jet 2 are concerned they will probably have to type rate people as there is not a load of type rated classic 737 people on the market.

Are you telling me that if a type rated 757 ex Astreus applies that they won't look at them?

What do Jet2 charge for type rating somebody?

If an airline decides to spend money on type rating somebody when there is just as good a type rated pilot on the market then they are fiscally inept!

[fmgc]

fmgc - if you look at Jet2 they are doing just that - getting the right people they want , at the bases that they want

So are Mon. Just that at the moment they are type rated.

[turbine100]

I am lower hour'd / less experienced but flying for a small AOC, its frustrating CTC / OAA get in the way of people like myself or instructors being able to apply directly for Monarch or EZY.

The CAA should start looking into those training schools relationships with some airlines and self employed contractor model. Its all about money and business between those training schools and the airlines, stopping others who trained else where or people with proper experience on type. The MPL will affect those experienced folk too.

[fmgc]

To be fair, airlines like mon, tcx etc have never taken flying instructors.

It's always been cadets or pilots with 15t+ experience.

[twogoodstarts]

If you gain employment mith MON as an experienced B757/A320 FO do you still have to take the 9/3 contract?
If so how long do you have to be on it before being offered 100% 12 month contract??

:confused:

[Waldo]

The 9/3 contract applies to all new pilots joining Monarch. 9/3 contract is restricted to one pilot for each aircraft in the fleet. i.e there are 30 9/3 contracts at present.
As each pilot over the 30 join one moves onto a full time contract. (but only once a year)
Hope that helps

[New T2 Office]

fmgc wrote:

"To be fair, airlines like mon, tcx etc have never taken flying instructors.

It's always been cadets or pilots with 15t+ experience."




Not true......I was an instructor with 4500ish hrs when I joined in the late 80's..............still here now...........

[fmgc]

Yes but that was when the was a genuine pilot shortage!

[fade to grey]

Well, I should think most of my comrades at astraeus will apply....that's about 25 757 FOs I guess.

I was LHS but I'll still apply for RHS, I just wanna fly and stay in the UK !

[jetpilot84]

Fade to grey,

Succumb to the desert, resistance is futile! :}

[New T2 Office]

Fmgc,

I totally agree, it was very different then............I was just trying to correct a couple of points though.....


"To be fair, airlines like mon, tcx etc have NEVER taken flying instructors.

It's ALWAYS been cadets or pilots with 15t+ experience."


Fade to grey,


I gather a few ex Astraeus 757 guys are currently being interviewed by MON

[angelorange]

2008:

"Thank you for submitting/renewing your pilot profile with Monarch Airlines.

Your details will be reviewed according to our current and potential future recruitment needs so it is vital that you keep your contact details up to date (entering a new profile will overwrite any previous submissions).

We regret that due to the large number of applications received, only those candidates whose details match our current/future recruitment needs will be contacted.

Postal or telephone enquiries made in relation to recruitment opportunities to any Monarch offices will be re-directed to our website at Monarch | Cheap Flights, Holidays & Hotels (http://www.flymonarch.com).

Thank you for the interest you have shown in joining Monarch Airlines."

2011:

"employment as flight crew:

We only recruit for the position of first officer on A320/A321, B757 and A300-600 (depending on vacancies). Advancement to mixed fleet flying (A320/A321/A330 and B757/B767) is based on seniority within these fleets. Subsequent promotion to captain depends upon suitable assessment and seniority. Please note that at the moment there is a recruitment freeze and applications are not being accepted."


So which is it? Also heard that Postal CVs using ppjn contact for several A320 type rated individuals not replied to which is closer to the 2008 email.