View Full Version : Qantas to DALLAS

dragon man
12th Oct 2010, 00:51
Some good news for Qf 400 drivers, Sydney-Dallas-Brisbane. To start next year.

Going Boeing
12th Oct 2010, 02:16
The routes will have to be flown by the B744ER. Great Circle distances SYD-DFW 8578mi & DFW-BNE 8303mi (the tracks go over the Baja Peninsular and Mexico). The headwinds on the way back obviously dictate BNE in lieu of SYD. It's probably in QF's interest to develop another port as a hub and geographically BNE is the obvious choice. I suspect that they may leave P class fitted to the ER's for this route as it is aimed at Business traffic with AA connections (DFW is AA's main hub).

12th Oct 2010, 04:26
Since when? My hot tip is it is going to be Santiago with a Rio stop..

12th Oct 2010, 04:34
Sounds a bit like pie in the sky... :sad: Whats the market that wants to goto Dallas...:}

12th Oct 2010, 04:43
Maybe the market that wants to avoid LAX (and fly in a decent plane halfway across the US)

Main issue will be filling it back.
when you can fly SYD/MEL-LAX-ORD/MIA-LAX-SYD/MEL
even with the LAX factor.

12th Oct 2010, 06:40
DFW is a major hub for alliance partner American Airlines, among others.
Also a very busy air cargo airport.
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas/Fort_Worth_International_Airport)

industry insider
12th Oct 2010, 07:19
I will use it, avoid LAX.....woo hoo. It will save me going via SIN or HKG to EWR or JFK (which I do now to avoid LAX) If only QF service will be as good as SQ or CX.

12th Oct 2010, 07:22
Any news if SFO will continue once Dallas starts?

12th Oct 2010, 07:48
That rumour has been around for at least ten years maybe fifteen so I'll believe it when I see it, just like all the other rumoured destinations I've heard about over the last 22 years.

It'd be nice though.


Thats what she said
12th Oct 2010, 07:56
I'll use it.

Every time I go skiing in Colorado I have to deal with the LAX nightmare to get onto a AA flight (if I'm using FF points) that takes me through DFW anyway. To get off in DFW saves me a sector. Bring it on!!

12th Oct 2010, 08:09
The routes will have to be flown by the B744ER

IIRC that is what they were originally ordered for, before 11 Sep 2001 caused a rethink.

DFW is AA's main hub and the idea was to be able to plug straight into that rather than have to put everything through LAX.

Qantas 787
12th Oct 2010, 10:05
DFW in, SFO out. Makes some sense, but I will believe it when I see it.

That aircraft called the 777 would have been handy for DFW direct

Going Boeing
12th Oct 2010, 10:41
Tailly, yes they did have DFW in mind when they ordered the ER's but the plan was to have the option for a second Aux tank fitted. The extra 10 tonnes of fuel would have given the aircraft the range to do DFW-SYD but when they did the sums, they found the payload would be too restricted (10 tonnes more fuel means 10 tonnes less pax & baggage).

Posted by Seriously,
Sounds a bit like pie in the sky... Whats the market that wants to goto Dallas...
All the businessmen who have connections on AA to 90% of the AA network - that's the market. As two other posters have said, avoiding the nightmare that is LAX and having one less sector makes flights direct to DFW very attractive.

I don't believe that there is going to be a reduction in SFO services in order to fly to DFW. As the Dugong takes over more of the LAX services, there is sufficient capacity in the B744 fleet to do both SFO & DFW.

12th Oct 2010, 23:24
Another vote here for "I'll believe it when I see it".

Only 10 years in QF and I lost count a long time ago of how many of these destination rumours I've heard. It still amazes me how excited we get about them, until the rumour just fizzles out eventually.

As a rule, QF mainline doesn't open new destinations. It only closes off old ones or siphons them off to code-share or cheap offshoot airlines. Marketing gurus that our crowd are. :hmm:

13th Oct 2010, 00:58
If it happens, great! Living in Orlando (MCO) now so getting back to Oz is multi-hop pain. Most of the time requiring routing via Atlanta & LAX because MCO-LAX is either too infrequent, wrong time or full.

Plenty of flights with AA to Dallas so that would make it a two sector flight with plenty of flight options and avoiding the LAX cesspit.

Capt Kremin
13th Oct 2010, 03:04
Qantas Engineering head seen en-route to Dallas yesterday.

13th Oct 2010, 03:54
Sorry for asking, but can someone confirm that 8500 miles is within the range of a 747-400ER with full pax and some freight. When this route has been previously discussed, I thought a stop in Auckland was a possibility.

8500 miles looks like a 787 sort of distance.

13th Oct 2010, 04:06
The still-air distances are (from great circle mapper):

SYD (http://www.gcmap.com/airport/SYD) (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) DFW (http://www.gcmap.com/airport/DFW) (32°53'49"N 97°02'17"W) 7454 nm
DFW (http://www.gcmap.com/airport/DFW) (32°53'49"N 97°02'17"W) BNE (http://www.gcmap.com/airport/BNE) (27°23'03"S 153°07'03"E) 7215 nm

The distances previously quoted are statute miles.

As a comparison, LAX-MEL is about 6900 nm. Given that DFW-BNE would have a lower headwind component, the air distance would be comparable, and with tailwinds, SYD-DFW would be fine for an ER as well, though I'd expect it to need full fuel and the possibility of reduced payload. You'd still get a full pax load (about 310) but reduced freight.


13th Oct 2010, 10:11
8500 miles looks like a 787 sort of distance

... so they say in the brochure, but the reality may be different ...

13th Oct 2010, 10:39
I wish DFW was on QF's radar! But as someone once said to me "theres not one imaginative bone in QF's body"

They just dont seem interested in building the brand and spreading the wings anymore. I would have thought DFW if the rumour is true might be a nice cash cow. Lots of money in Texas! (Reckon there might be some good leisure coin too!)

13th Oct 2010, 12:34
It will be a Jetstar route. Lets face it when they workout LCC's dont work they will paint Jetstar into Qantas livery. Everyone outside of Qantas can see it. AIPA sure cant.....or maybe they can????

Ndicho Moja
13th Oct 2010, 23:28
Give me DFW over LAX any day.

13th Oct 2010, 23:32
Maybe it will be JQ operating to DFW?!

"Jetstar partners with American Airlines"

Jetstar partners with American Airlines | The National Business Review - New Zealand - business, markets, finance, politics, property, technology and more (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/jetstar-partners-with-american-airlines-131529)

This article talks of AA giving pax to JQ in NZ, but it could certainly work the other way ex DFW!

AKL-DFW? Probably beyond the 330's range but certainly a possibility with the 78's.

14th Oct 2010, 02:45
This, the flights to Texas, came up when Continental announced that they will be flying direct from Houston to Auckland from November 2011 with their 787 Continental Airlines Announces New Services to New Zealand > New Zealand (http://www.newzealand.com/travel/trade/whats-happening/news/2010/may/continental-airlines-announces-new-services-to-new-zealand.cfm)

If it does happen with QF, hope they get an early start and do well out of it.

14th Oct 2010, 23:56
Latest fattys rumour is back to Amsterdam via Bangkok using 332s.. this should make the bus pilots a bit happier with some more international flying:ok:

Transition Layer
15th Oct 2010, 00:58
And where will the extra A330 capacity come from?

Hopefully they're taking them off the LAX/JFK/LAX route - what a stupid idea that was!

15th Oct 2010, 02:20
Impending announcement for twenty new red tail A330's will solve any airframe shortage problems.

15th Oct 2010, 03:05
TL 330 to come off LAX/JFK/LAX and return to the 744 (new config).
PVG to go to 744 daily.

Service will originate out of Melbourne on the days JQ doesn't fly and will link up with the Qf 1 out of Sydonee:D

Roger Greendeck
15th Oct 2010, 06:50
Sign me up! Anything that avoids LAX.

15th Oct 2010, 07:37
Impending announcement for twenty new red tail A330's will solve any airframe shortage problems.

I like this dude already! :ok:

Dropt McGutz
15th Oct 2010, 08:44
I have my doubts about twenty new A330's. Unless they do a massive recruiting campaign, there won't be enough pilots, unless of course they are to replace the 767's but over what period of time?

15th Oct 2010, 11:52
I hope you guys dont think Qantas will be doing these routes. If you do can you explain to me why you are so naive.

Capt Kremin
15th Oct 2010, 15:56
So BBB, you are formally dropping the pretence of being a QF pilot now? Being a troll is obviously more fun.

16th Oct 2010, 13:55
For what it is worth, I heard from one fairly high up that the 380 will be doing more LAX next year and Dallas is seriously being considered for the 744.

17th Oct 2010, 00:00
744 ER SYD/DFW/BNE from Feb 2011.

standard unit
17th Oct 2010, 00:25

Very nice :ok:

17th Oct 2010, 00:53
Good news if it's true!!!

Will that mean a reduction in BNE-LAX-BNE services?

standard unit
17th Oct 2010, 03:48
Or pulling out of SFO ???

It took us 11 years to get back when we mistakingly did so last time.

Could management be so stupid again? [he says rhetorically]

17th Oct 2010, 07:39
Negative reduction in BNE schedules.Hearing some interesting plans for BNE late next year.
I think Off chocks may also mean BNE-LAX

17th Oct 2010, 10:15
I once knew a Lesbian named Dallas, but that's another story.

17th Oct 2010, 10:38
About time QF did something more out of BNE!

BNE-HKG-BNE has been 4x weekly for years, loads are always strong particually now the flight connects onto LHR.

QF really need more international A330s!

17th Oct 2010, 15:12
QF doesn't wanna compete in CX and SQ territory out of BNE !

QF competes out of SYD and MEL and just hands BNE to SQ and CX on a platter.

BNE-HKG - CX 10 a week - QF 4

BNE-SIN - SQ 19 a week - QF 7 - EK 7

Sue Ridgepipe
18th Oct 2010, 11:28
You can add Melbourne to that list -
CX MEL-HKG 21 a week QF 7

mister hilter
18th Oct 2010, 18:52
For all of you looking forward to not going to LAX I found this on another thread. Thought this might be a good thread to reproduce it.

My last trip was tiring, until I reached Dallas. Then it became intolerable. Standing with my hands above my head in that glass box like some F*****g ballerina, with my wallet going in another direction, complete with stick with years of work on it.......Oh, my.

Nothing, not even a tissue could remain in my pockets.

People are just not going to put up with it. I have to divide my time across the Atlantic, my family are both sides, and we play an active part in all their lives, but if that wasn't the case, I'd never come back.

Bush senior came on British TV years ago, telling us Brits what a great place to visit, the US was. And it is. But walking over hot coals to get in the door, after, what? 13 hours with book in times, just is not going to appeal to many people.

It's more than a shame, because both countries have a lot to offer. It really should not have to be like this.

Sorry for stealing your work LR, but didn't think you'd mind (too much).

21st Oct 2010, 21:30
Wouldnt be surprised to see SFO dropped off the network.. still running at a loss despite the current loads being ok. The yeild is crap on that run. And they are only running 4 flights a week.. hardly a consistant flight when you throw in all the adhoc cancellations.

Capt Kremin
21st Oct 2010, 22:00
QF would like to send the A330 to SFO, but there aren't enough airframes. Apparently it is doable direct with an IGW variant.

21st Oct 2010, 22:48
Yet again a perfect 777 route goes begging! :ugh:

21st Oct 2010, 22:56
A330 SYD-HNL-SFO. Got my vote.:ok:

21st Oct 2010, 23:38
Be better off with the Syd - Honno - Hongkoover:ok:

21st Oct 2010, 23:49
Who would go SYD-HNL-SFO when you can go SYD-SFO direct on UA. Bad call in my mind.

Double Wasp
22nd Oct 2010, 01:36
With AC the only outfit flying YVR this route is underserved. I do not believe there anyone who offers a stop over in HNL, on the same itinerary. Tourist season is about to kick off in Canada in December. Might be a good route to extend the JQ 330's at the very least.


22nd Oct 2010, 02:21
Would this planning be in reaction to UA's plans to fly directly into HOU from Auckland? allowing the (seamless?) transitting to the CO network from Auckland.
anything that avoids LAX certainly has my vote. even if it is a knee jerk reaction, its certainly positive news.:D

(edit) I had my origin airport wrong, I have corrected it to show Auckland.

13th Jan 2011, 21:38
Some interesting rumours on FT
Rumor: Qf to begin dfw flights - FlyerTalk Forums (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qantas-frequent-flyer/1171525-rumor-qf-begin-dfw-flights.html)

Flight times have appeared in Amadeus and Sabre commencing May 16

QF7 Sydney 1325 - Dallas Fort-Worth 1350
QF8 Dallas Fort-Worth 2200 - Brisbane 0500+2
QF8 Brisbane 0630 - Sydney 0805

13th Jan 2011, 22:16
Official QF pull out of SFO again and going to DFW as per above post.

13th Jan 2011, 22:42
No more direct SFO!:mad:
DFW is not exactly top of the list.Maybe the bizoids will jump for joy but...for anyone else??!!:bored:

maybe put another flight into LA ( yeah funny I know) to make up the difference.:rolleyes:

13th Jan 2011, 22:57
As part of the announcement the existing JFK services will increase to daily from June 2011.

I assume A330 still to operate JFK?

standard unit
13th Jan 2011, 22:59
Official QF pull out of SFO again

The operative being, "again". :mad:

An ill conceived knee jerk reaction that proves the theory that the clowns running our outfit have learnt nothing from the last 10-15 years of management cluster [email protected] :ugh:

13th Jan 2011, 23:01
Sfo shuts on 14may. No a330, no jetstar.

Those poor guys who work there.

QF have made a very very bad decision.

13th Jan 2011, 23:32
So zero gain in QF international flying. Well done clowns.

13th Jan 2011, 23:46
Jetstar will start flying into Oakland within the year, they have to send their next 3 330's somewhere! As usual they will need to pull QANTAS off the destination to make the Jetstar flights viable.

13th Jan 2011, 23:55
A somewhat questionable headline.....

Anyways it's official.

Qantas does Dallas, dumps San Francisco (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-does-dallas-dumps-san-francisco-20110114-19qfa.html)

Qantas does Dallas, dumps San Francisco
January 14, 2011 - 11:27AM

Qantas Airways will apply to the consumer watchdog for permission to co-ordinate its trans-Pacific operations with American Airlines, as it dumps direct flights to San Francisco in favour of Texas.

Dallas/Fort Worth, in Texas, is American Airlines largest hub airport. Qantas said today it would begin direct flights to Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) on May 16, after ending flights to San Francisco on May 14.

The Dallas/Fort Worth service would provide Qantas with access to American Airlines regional network, meaning it could offer codeshare services to another 13 destinations in the US and three in Mexico.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Qantas said it would operate four times a week direct from Sydney to Dallas/Fort Worth starting May 16, using a three-class Boeing 747.

The return leg will fly through Brisbane.Dallas/Fort Worth Airport, in Texas, is the eighth busiest airport in the world based on passenger traffic figures from 2009. It was American Airlines’ largest hub city, Qantas said.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said the new services were part of an expanded commercial relationship with American Airlines.

‘‘It will connect Qantas customers to one of the USA’s major hub airports, benefitting both business and leisure travellers,’’ Mr Joyce said in a statement.

Qantas said it would seek Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) approval for the two airlines to coordinate operations between Australia/New Zealand and the US.

‘‘It will give Qantas a stronger and more balanced network footprint in the United States and provide more choice and convenience for travellers,’’ Qantas said.

The new alliance would provide a ‘‘joint platform for the airlines to offer a daily service between Australia and Dallas/Fort Worth’’, Qantas said.

The ACCC last year approved Virgin Blue’s alliance with US-based Delta Air Lines on trans-Pacific services, but the tie-up was awaiting a final decision from the US Department of Transportation.

Qantas said it would stop flying to San Francisco, but city would remain part of the airline’s network as a codeshare destination.


13th Jan 2011, 23:57
Please do not reply to this email. Send all correspondence to [email protected]

14 January 2011
Attention all Qantas and OCCA International Crew


In a media release of 10am this morning, Qantas announced the cessation of San Francisco Flights. The last flight will depart San Francisco on 14th May 2011 and arrive in Sydney on 16th May 2011. I am sure you will all agree that San Francisco has been a Qantas Crew Favourite port for many years and it will be sorely missed on our network.

At the same time Qantas is announcing flights to Dallas Fort Worth, which will commence on Monday the 16th May 2011.

The flights will operate four (4) times a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. The route will be SYD/DFW/BNE/SYD and crewing arrangements have not been discussed at this stage however it will be operated by a 747-400 (three class) and the newly configured 747's will be deployed to that route when they come online.

Dallas Fort Worth is a significant OneWorld Hub for Qantas' partner American Airlines. It is also the fourth largest metropolitan area in the United States. Over 59 Million passengers travelled to DFW in 2009 with 59% of those passengers continuing onward to other destinations.

Qantas will also increase frequency of its Los Angeles-New York Service from six times per week to daily from June 2011.

Written and authorised by Steven Reed - President International Division

20 Ewan Street Mascot NSW 2020 Tel 61 2 8337 1111 Fax 61 2 8337 1122 Emergency Contact 0414 894 192 FAAA.net (http://www.faaa.net)

14th Jan 2011, 01:26
In regards to what 'ANCDU' said about Oakland, you'd want to partner with someone in the US then, wouldn't you? A quick look at the Oakland site Oakland International Airport: Airline Information (http://www.oaklandairport.com/airline_information.shtml) shows plenty of airlines flying from there but they'd want to be in the 'Oneworld' family I would have thought?

From The Herald Sun, 5th Jan 2010: Etihad tips a major boost down under | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/etihad-tips-a-major-boost-down-under/story-e6frfh4f-1225982603770)

Etihad and Qantas were at odds over the Australian national carrier's plans to send Jetstar into the Middle East.

So does this allow JQ to fly to the mainland as ANCDU said and without upsetting AA?

14th Jan 2011, 01:27
This has been on the cards for months.
When SFO was excluded from the Tourism Australia roadshow through Amercia last year the writing was on the wall.
Lets hope it doesnt out to be a mistake....again

14th Jan 2011, 01:56
No more LAX Airport
What a mess that airport is.
Uh Oh hope DFW is better.
Better have a gander

Roger Greendeck
14th Jan 2011, 02:10
DFW sooo much better!

14th Jan 2011, 03:57
DFW wx sucks though! :uhoh:

Capt Fathom
14th Jan 2011, 04:21
Dallas to Brisbane should test the range a bit.

Chronic Snoozer
14th Jan 2011, 04:42
Can anyone in the know describe roughly what the set up costs are for a new port? I'm guessing there is a break-even point given a certain load factor for say 3,6 or 12 months?

standard unit
14th Jan 2011, 04:51
Jetstar will start flying into Oakland within the year, they have to send their next 3 330's somewhere! As usual they will need to pull QANTAS off the destination to make the Jetstar flights viable.

Ah yes, of course, Jetstar. :rolleyes:

Otherwise known as Qantas's very own pet, "strangler fig".

It climbs slowly up around and over to the point of completely enveloping a viable and entirely healthy tree, slowly but inextricably strangling it to death.

In the mean time those running SQ, EH, CX, BA, VB, Air NZ and the like just piss themselves laughing. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

14th Jan 2011, 06:05
Are the upcoming 330's not going to Singas now?

14th Jan 2011, 06:51

The two gay capitals of the world and QF abandons the route - I almost said "pulls out" but restrained myself!!!

Hasn't QF management heard of the Pink Dollar???

DFW will be a challenge in the TS season!! Good for overtime though.

14th Jan 2011, 06:53
One thing from a SLF : I'm booked with Qantas to fly SFO->SYD at the end of June 2011. Does anyone have any idea who will operate that sector from May for Qantas ticket holders ? [Please don't say American...]

Cheers in advance

Goat Whisperer
14th Jan 2011, 07:35

at best you'll get put on SYD-LAX and provided with a shuttle ticket LAX-SFO.

second best you'll be able to redeem your booking on a SYD-LAX flight and walk there.

14th Jan 2011, 07:51
at best you'll get put on SYD-LAX and provided with a shuttle ticket LAX-SFO.

Cheers Goat Whisperer.

Bugger. We fly into LAX from Hawaii and then spend a week wandering around the west coast and San F.

I don't want to then have to fly back to bloody LAX and then get LAX to SYD.

Methinks I'll wander down to the travel agents tomorrow.

14th Jan 2011, 08:11
One thing from a SLF : I'm booked with Qantas to fly SFO->SYD at the end of June 2011. Does anyone have any idea who will operate that sector from May for Qantas ticket holders ? [Please don't say American...]

Latestar perhaps ??

14th Jan 2011, 22:30
If you live in PER for example and dislike LAX and SYD you can avoid both by flying DFW/NRT/PER using a JAL/QF connection.
Good Connections from South America and Europe to OZ.
Would the A380 have the legs to do DFW/SYD?

14th Jan 2011, 22:47
Would the A380 have the legs to do DFW/SYD?

Yes, but not with a viable load.

14th Jan 2011, 23:02
Would the A380 have the legs to do DFW/SYD?

Not sure DFW is A380 capable/accredited, memory is faded a bit but the everything needs widening to prevent FOD to the outboard engines and there are other issues with passenger egress etc.

15th Jan 2011, 05:33
Good news !!! , but i have also heard that the LAX -JFK Route is going to reviewed and could be given the punt as they can now use AA codeshare easier from DFW ... must have more flights to JFK than LAX?

15th Jan 2011, 05:47
So if you are in NYC and want to go to SYD you are suggesting transitting DFW.?
Further QF have just announced daily to JFK from LAX

15th Jan 2011, 22:42
If you are in NYC you can fly from La Guardia (or from Washington National Airport rather than Dulles). You will get food to American Airlines domestic standards, so if you are at the back of the plane, you buy your own sandwich. This compares with flying JFK-LAX on a Qantas operated flight. Might just be a matter of a shorter taxi ride to LGA.

16th Jan 2011, 00:39
Once JetStar gets its 787s they will more than likely be deployed to SFO.
Although there is some J/C trtaffic out of the City by the Bay its just not enough.
SFO is more a leisure destination which fits into Jetstar's preferred destinations criteria

16th Jan 2011, 03:13
Couldn't QF Mainline have kept SYD - SFO going by using A332's? Or do they not have the legs for a viable load without a stop?

16th Jan 2011, 03:41
The 330 would have to operate via Auckland (like QF25/25) - you couldn't viably run the 330 from Sydney to San Francisco.
AKL/SFO traffic is low yield, non-premium traffic - would not be sustainable for Qantas.

Jetstar could do it, and I think the only reason they have not yet, is because Qantas operates the route and Qantas (rightly so) does not want any cannibalisation considering the market is so "thin" as it is...

Maybe with Qantas's exit, JQ might go with the 330 from New Zealand since that's the only location where range could be achieved i.e. QF25/26 to LAX?

They are getting a couple more 330's...

16th Jan 2011, 04:27
Via HNL.:8

16th Jan 2011, 04:50
HNL/SFO vv is already saturated with competition/capacity - Jetstar would be better via AKL since there is AUS and NZ feeder traffic from established operations in AUS and NZ already.

Going Boeing
16th Jan 2011, 11:06
Couldn't QF Mainline have kept SYD - SFO going by using A332's?
Part of the reason for dropping SFO is that the CC wouldn't agree to a 34 hour slip and thus the crew costs on that service is high while the yield is low. Maybe the FAAA should approach QF management to see if the route would be economically viable if they agreed to the same slips as the pilots. It's worth a try to keep the route in operation (ie, it's not the aircraft type that is the problem).

16th Jan 2011, 21:47
Going boeing,

Thats not correct. The cabin crew operates in on Friday morning and leaves Saturday night. Thats the only day there are flights that back up.

Both UA and QF are full each night and have been for quite awhile. Air NZ are also full and gone to a daily 777.

Low yield cause they aren't asking enough $$ per seat.

16th Jan 2011, 21:54
My network tells me that the connection ex SFO weren,t too good for QF hence the alternative. As QFguy mentioned CC can/were doing 36 hrs slips in SFO as well as LAX. As for the A332 with 8 CC and 4 TC and having 1 A/B blocked off for a S/O one can argue about financials there.:oh:

16th Jan 2011, 22:47
Connections out of SFO on AA aren't good. It's a UA hub.

16th Jan 2011, 23:06
QF A330's to replace B767 SYD HNL from March. I think the A330 will continue HNL SFO HNL from around the same time or maybe later in the year.

This will either leave SYD HNL SYD as daylight both ways, or night both ways... One for the scheduling gurus to work out.


17th Jan 2011, 00:03
Geez, ODL, I hope you're right and not just wishful thinking this one. I've been doing that with the 777 for years and it still isn't happening.

The decision WRT pulling out of direct SFO underlines the stupidity of QF not getting a decent 777 a half decade to a decade ago. From what I understand, the 744 on the route is normally 2/3-3/4 full (except around Mardi Gras time) which puts it squarely in the 777 size. Reduce the amount of fuel burned by the 744 by 40% and you've turned a marginal route into a great little money spinner.

The 777- old technology aircraft. Just as well we dodged that bullet. :rolleyes: :mad:

17th Jan 2011, 01:20
just had a quick look in staff travel for flights to HNL through to november. only saw 767s for qf3 flights. why would we put up a modern aircraft against JQ? it might show them up!

17th Jan 2011, 06:45
Qantas (or any AUS airline) cannot operate HNL/SFO/HNL - no traffic rights and cannot get them. It's "locked up".

17th Jan 2011, 07:06
One of the busiest airports I have ever seen.

Around 20 years ago now I was there, sure it is even busier now.

Very impressive sight back then, several American Airlines MD80s reversing out under their own power at the same time, NO tug/tractor.

Jed Clampett
17th Jan 2011, 08:59
The whole sad and sorry state of affairs at the QANTAS cluster f***can be described in two words:

"Dixon" and "B777"

If either of these two could have been changed over the last decade the place would be booming. The only reason QF mainline is not cost effective on some routes is because they have the wrong aircraft. It has all been discussed before.

It is just sad and disappointing.:{

17th Jan 2011, 09:51
Qantas (or any AUS airline) cannot operate HNL/SFO/HNL - no traffic rights and cannot get them. It's "locked up".

Not true, they can operate, they just cant sell domestic fares for the HNL to SFO sector to anyone who is joining in HNL or SFO

17th Jan 2011, 11:18
Not true, they can operate, they just cant sell domestic fares for the HNL to SFO sector to anyone who is joining in HNL or SFO

Which makes it pointless to operate to SFO via HNL, doesn't it? Either a fair proportion of passengers get off in HNL which makes the continuing flight to SFO unviable, or very few passengers get off in HNL so they may as well operate to SFO direct.

To make it work QF would need to operate the SFO extension like they do to JFK - have flights from BNE, SYD and MEL arrive in HNL at around the same time and have one of those aircraft take continuing passengers from all of those flights to SFO. This represents a tripling of the number of seats to HNL and even if allowed would oversupply the Australia-HNL route. Then there's the poor fleet utilisation resulting from two aircraft waiting on the ground in HNL for hours while a third flies to SFO and back.

Nice to dream but SFO via HNL isn't going to work without an explosion in passenger numbers.

17th Jan 2011, 12:41
Could AA do SFO - SYD using their 777 - 200ER's as a part of the "expanded agreement"?

18th Jan 2011, 00:43
SFO-SYD but are not interested. having enough trouble making money elsewhere don,t need another loss maker.:ok:

18th Jan 2011, 01:15
And it's a United hub which makes it difficult

Red Jet
18th Jan 2011, 02:11
And it's a United hub which makes it difficult

A nice little rumour - admittedly (at least partially) induced by wishful thinking:
SFO is also the hub of Virgin America - very nicely placed between (what is soon to be) Virgin Pacific and Virgin Atlantic:ok:

Perhaps we may soon be able to say: so long Long Beach:p and Hello San Fransisco:ok::D

Eastwest Loco
18th Jan 2011, 03:28
The DFW BNE sector on the QF* is showing as 16:00 hours.

That would pretty much preclude much freight on a full ship and would it not mean unscheduled visits to NAN if a seagull farted in front of the 744?

Just curious - seems an awful long haul.

Sabre flifo follows
DFW BNE 2200 0500 ‡2 RM 744 16.00 16.00 8413 N
BNE SYD 0630 0805 B / 1.35 19.05 468 N

Best regards


18th Jan 2011, 03:43
Perhaps we may soon be able to say: so long Long Beach and Hello San Fransisco

Would make sense in some regard from Voz perspective however good luck getting a slot to land there. I think QF make this mistake in the 90's, left the market then tried to get back in and had to wait years for a slot.

18th Jan 2011, 04:20
Not sure DFW is A380 capable/accredited, memory is faded a bit but the everything needs widening to prevent FOD to the outboard engines and there are other issues with passenger egress etc.

DFW's International terminal D is set up for A380s. The only question was with the freighter versions, the bridges are only rated to 1.25 million pounds so a full freighter would have to stay on which ever side of the airport it was loaded on.