Split Duty is an Extension!

[Q*R*H]

Below an example of a daily 'split duty' in our company. In my opinion it isn't used the way it was designed.I will leave it somewhere in the middle it's legal or not. I will try to explain my resoning:

In this example the max FDP is 11.30 -/- 1hr(WOCL)= 10.30
The FDP in this case is (13.05-/-20min)= 12.45
My company claims that the break doesn't count towards the FDP, so the FDP for this particulare example is 12.45 -/- 03.15 = 09:30

In my opinion this is wrong. In fact the split duty is a way to extend the max FDP right? EXTEND! In this case we need an extension (an Increase in max FDP!!!) of 02.15 (12:45 -/- 10:30)
In my company we are using the following table to calculate the lenght of the break needed to calculate the 'Increase or extension of FDP'

Break------------Increase to FDP
0-2:59 -----------None
3-6:59------------0.5 x time of break
7-10:59----------0.66 x time of break or 1.5 time of break if at least 7 hours of the break is between 2000 - 0800 local time

So in order to increase a max FDP with 2hrs and 15min, we need a break of (2.15 x 1,5) = 4hrs and 30 minutes.

Hence a BRKP from 22.20 till 03.50 rather than the 22.20 - 01.35 as my company claims to be within the subQ limits.

What do you think..?


C/I AAA 1430

Leg 1) AAA 1540 1635 BBB
Leg 2) BBB 1715 1845 CCC
Leg 3) DDD 1910 2005 EEE
Leg 4) FFF 2055 2150 FFF

BRKP FFF 2220 0135

Leg 5) FFF 0220 0315 AAA

C/O 0335 AAA

[DT 13:05]

[bfisk]

Under subpart Q, a break on the ground is to be counted as full (100%) FDP - unless:

1) you have access to private bed rest, in which case you can count 50% FDP

-or-

2) you have access to private bed rest, and the length of the break is given prior to the start of the break, and is at least 4 hours, in which case it does not count (0%) as part of the FDP.

Edit: I didn't find this in sub q when i checked, this is how it's stated in our ops manual. I don't know if it's a norwegian national difference or it's an AMC thing. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.
---------------------------------------

So:

1430-2220 gives FDP of 7:50
2220-0135 break on the ground outside WOCL of either 3:15 w/o bedrest or 1:38 with bedrest.
0135-0335 gives FDP of (2 hours + 1,5*95min WOCL correction) = 4:23.

Total FDP is then 15:28 w/o bedrest or 13:51 with bed rest.

Max allowable basic FDP of 13 hours, minus 3x30min for additional sectors, gives max FDP of 11:30.

According to OPS 1.1105 2.2.3, when the WOCL is encroached by up to, but less than, 2 hours, extension of FDP is limited to 2 sectors. Since you do 5, you can't extend the max FDP.

Quite frankly I cannot see how this pattern is compatible with sub q unless I got the numbers all wrong.

[Phileas Fogg]

QRH,

My memory may have lapsed, duty time regulations are as per your Ops Manual and may vary from other Ops Manuals, and you are complicating your explanation somewhat.

An FDP commences at the report time of 1430, you say 11:30 is allowable thus, normally, you would be out of hours at 0200, check your Ops Manual but normal interpretation is that an FDP ends upon your final 'on blocks', any duty after final on blocks is 'duty period' but not 'flying duty period'.

By this you, your operator, needs to find an extra 1:15 from somewhere thus you need the minimum split duty of a 3 hour break, it seems you achieve this with a 3:15 hour break.

A split duty is an extension of duty however it is not 'commanders discretion' but what I cannot recall is if a commander is permitted to exercise discretion to (further) extend on a split duty FDP, I've a feeling that he/she cannot.

[Denti]

Depends somewhat of the local rules around subpart Q. In germany it is perfectly legal to plan a duty of up to 18 hours provided there is a break of at least 3 hours in there where the employer provides a minimum standard resting place (a quiet room with a bed), however if the duty period exceeds the subpart q max flight duty period the pilots are not allowed to be at the controls for more than 10 hours and not more than 2 landings after the break can be planned. Discretion can not extend that period or the number of landings.

This part of the regs is quite often used in my company, in many cases for a shorter than min rest night stay which can be vicious for our sleeping patterns if combined with min rest during the day.

[Serenity]

Does split duty have to be rostered or can it just be actioned on the day, for example if you go tech, so long as correct hotels and time limits apply??

Thanks!

[Phileas Fogg]

It needs to be notified in advance, i.e. after a 'creeping delay' an operator can not belatedly dictate to the crew that sitting around drinking coffee etc. is, after the event, considered a split duty.

'In advance' could be rostered or it could, literally, be 5 minutes beforehand, but the crew need to be notified in advance so they can relax, put their feet up or whatever.

[Q*R*H]

Thank you for your input so far. Below the result what happened to the scheduled duty we have talked about before. The only difference is the real flight times and a delay on the 4th leg...

I think I departed too early. But with my company's reasoning and interpretation I departed on time...

And that's my point. My company doesn't use the spilt duty to extend, but to reduced the max allowed FDP. I think that's wrong. Isn't it?

C/I AAA 1430

Leg 1) AAA 1540 1634 BBB
Leg 2) BBB 1657 1824 CCC
Leg 3) DDD 1858 1950 EEE
Leg 4) FFF 2124 2215 FFF

BRKP FFF 2245 0135

Leg 5) FFF 0234 0331 AAA

C/O 0351 AAA

[DT 13:21]

[Phileas Fogg]

QRH,

Check your Ops Manual but in every Ops Manual I have seen, indeed I wrote the FDP's for one operator, a split duty is an extension of duty, a continuous duty seperated by a break, and if a total (split) duty period is, by example, 13:21 then one needs that appropriate rest period before the next duty.

If your Ops Manual doesn't agree with this then your operator, or the individual that informed you that a split reduces an FDP, is an idiot.

It seems you are dictating, on the split, normal off/on duty (on blocks + 30 minutes followed by a 1 hour report), normally, if the operator has any sense, on a split these off/on duty times may be reduced by perhaps 50% on the basis, I guess, that you don't need to put the beast to bed and/or complete all end of duty paperwork and you are reporting back to an aircraft that hasn't been anywhere since you last left it.

But, a split duty is an extension of duty, does your Ops Manual, not the individual who informed you otherwise, agree with this?

[seat 0A]

All is in the interpretation of these rules.
The EU document was so poorly written that no one can make sense of it. So everyone interprets it in its own way.
Until EASA dreams up its version and things will hopefully improve, there`s only one solution:
Join the union, write your own FDP`s in the CLA and adhere to those.

[Denti]

It seems you are dictating, on the split, normal off/on duty (on blocks + 30 minutes followed by a 1 hour report), normally, if the operator has any sense, on a split these off/on duty times may be reduced by perhaps 50% on the basis, I guess, that you don't need to put the beast to bed and/or complete all end of duty paperwork and you are reporting back to an aircraft that hasn't been anywhere since you last left it.

That doesn't really work in most airline environments as the aircraft usually is used for something else during the break and indeed might be another one when you return from the break.

[737incognito]

I agree with Seat OA. The problem is that Subpart Q is not precise enough:

In the Subpart Q definition of Break is that it is part of Duty (not FDP). My company uses this definition in Split Duty to prolong FDP for half of the Break, but without counting Break in FDP, so we end up with extension of 150% of the Break.

Also some things are left to National Authorities, which, if not good (like mine) leave many things open to interpretation.

I would like to know if there is an e-mail with JAA/EASA where I can ask for interpretation of their regulations (like I do with Boeing).

[Phileas Fogg]

Incognito,

In your Ops Manual FTL's does it state somewhere, to the effect, that an FDP commences upon report for duty and ends upon final on-blocks of that FDP/DP ..... and continues to state that there needs be a rest period appropriate to the previous DP before next reporting time?

If it does state this then the FDP start and finish times are clearly defined and if there is anything in the split duty definition that contradicts this then you may feel obliged to contact the regulating authority, the civil aviation authority, of the country concerned for clarification.

I can assure you that a 150% extension has never been intended.

[Q*R*H]

The split duty is notified in advance. My point is how can 02.50 hrs be considered as a split duty if subQ says that breaks shorter than 3 hrs can not be used as an extension (in terms of a split duty.)

In other words: if you can't consider these 2.50hrs as a split duty, than it's part of the FDP. Thus we are exceeding are FD limitations (with 2,5 hrs!)

Is it me who needs vacation (and brain treatment) or is my reasoning right?

[Phileas Fogg]

QRH,

You were scheduled for a 3:15 break, legally you need to take a minimum 3 hour break, you knew that, whilst a report time may be -1 hour if everything is ready then there is nothing to say you cannot depart 49 minutes after report time.

If you re-reported after a 2:50 break then you knew that you weren't getting the minimum 3 hour break, then you were exercising commander's discretion to do away with the split and increase the allowable FDP by 1:31 for which you need to complete a commander's discretion report, failing that you sharpen your pencil whereas you re-reported at 0145 and you departed at report time + 49 minutes!

[Q*R*H]

Where are my unforeseen circumstances? In my opinion no ground for cmd discretion here.

[Phileas Fogg]

QRH,

You should never have re-reported after 2:50, you should have waited another 10 minutes before re-reporting!

[PT6Driver]

The question is:
Is QRH’s company interpreting the rules correctly?
As I understand it they take the length of time you are on duty i.e. from 14:30 to 03:15 (12:45) and reduce this by the length of the break claiming it does not count as FDP. I.e. 12:30 – 3:15 = 9:30.
I believe this to be wrong because:
Subpart Q Section 1.6 of definitions states:
The FDP starts when the crew member is required by an operator to report for a flight or a series of flights; it finishes at the end of the last flight on which he/she is an operating crew member.
To not count as a duty the break would have to be a minimum of 12 hours or the length of the preceding duty whichever is the greater.
Thus your break is less than that required for minimum rest therefore it has to count as FDP as defined above in 1.6.
The regulations for split duty are granted by the authority to an operator and are therefore a 'local agreement’, and should be in your ops manual or equivalent document.
If we use your figures then the break of 3:15 counts as an extension of 1:37.5. Therefore your duty should end after 11:30 +1:37.5 = 13:07.5. I.e. at 03:37.
However as this ends in the WOCL there is acording to your figures a 1 hour reduction ie 12:07 with a finish at 02:37.
Your planned duty is therefore illegal – however check your ops manuals or equivalent very carefully to double check as differences from sub part q may be allowed. (The definition of what counts as FDP should be the same and therefore the break counts as part of the FDP the same as if you were positioning during that period.)

[Q*R*H]

PT6driver I fully agree with you. This is exactly the way I interpret subQ. Although the authorities have the right to differ from the rules in one way of the other, they can't make them less restrictive.

What do you think Phileas Fogg?

[Phileas Fogg]

QRH,

It is a long time since I read the FTL's but having written the FTL's for one operator they kind of stick with one!

What is the heading of the 'split duty' area in the FTL's, does it mention the word 'extending/extension'?

Put it this way, your allowable FDP was 11:30 but, with 3:15 break, it became 13:07, if your operator considered that to be a reduction in the FDP then I suggest that your operator introduce drug testing :)

I can recall, still, as a young crewing officer, I didn't, then, have the knowledge to live and breath the FTL's, whilst I knew most I didn't know everything and, on occasions, I may have bullsh1tted a crew member making out I knew what I was talking about.

I suspect this is the scenario in your case, in the early days the FTL's are difficult for new/young personnel to grasp, a split duty extends an FDP, it does not reduce it and, even whilst on the split, one remains on an active FDP until the final 'on blocks' of that Duty Period.

[PT6Driver]

Phileas Fogg and QRH,
I think we are all agreeing on this one in that we belive the split time counts as FDP and if of sufficient length can be used to extend the FDP.
QRH's company think that the break is not FDP therefore you have FDP 14:30 to 22:20 (7:50 hours) then a second duty 01:35 - 03:15 (1:10) total 9:00 instead of 12:45.
737's company aplies the extension and does not count the break as FDP!
I work to CAA rules so a reminder to all UK readers of why we must resist the implimentation of this to the UK.
QRH - subpart Q states that a duty ending in WOCL has the FDP reduced by 50% of the encroachment what does your ops manual state?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

QRH
my understanding is that split duty isn't included currently in sub part Q and is down to the NAA. In the UK we've used split duty for many years but no-where to the extent your example indicates. Can you state what your Ops manual says exactly and perhaps who your NAA is..... :\

[AutoAbort]

6. Extended FDP (split duty)

6.1 The Authority may grant approval to an operation based on an extended FDP including a break, subject to the provisions of Article 8.


6.2 Each operator will have to demonstrate to the Authority, using operational experience and taking into account other relevant factors, such as current scientific knowledge, that its request for an extended FDP produces an equivalent level of safety.

As long as your National authority approves it I guess airlines will continue to "experiment" and "adjust" limitations to suit their purpose.
:}

[BOAC]

subject to the provisions of Article 8.- anyone got an easy link to Article 8 in the peat bog of eu ops?

[Phileas Fogg]

6.2 Quotes "an extended FDP".

This serves to verify that the period, including the break, is an extended, and continuous, FDP thru until the final 'on blocks' of the period, one does not stop and start the FDP by reverting to a DP during the break nor is there any wording that a break reduces an FDP, a break extends an FDP!

[el sol]

Opinion please.

After years of calculating FDP a certain way, in several different companies employ, I was suddenly given a completely new way of working

Is this a legal trip ?

ETD AAAA 1200Z ETA BBBB 1730Z FERRY
ETD BBBB 2200Z ETA AAAA 0330Z

Local = Z+4

[dirk85]

No it's not.
In our company preflight is 1hr before ETD, and post flight 30 min after ETA. Could be different, refer to your OM part A.
Given 3 hours of split duty (1800z-2100z, considering pre and post flight, supposing an adequate crew rest facility is available) you have 1,5 hrs of extension (half the split duty).
You begin FDP at 1100z, 1500 lt, that gives you with two sectors 12 hrs of duty, plus 1,5 of extension= 13,5 hrs.

You should be on blocks at midnight to be FTL compliant.

Cheers!

[el sol]

many thanks Dirk85, I agree with you. I'll post the company calcs, just for a laugh !
Cheers,