Looking at conducting BFR's around Australia

[Instructor-T]

I'm looking at the possibility of traveling around Australia conducting BFR's for both RAA Pilot Certificate and GA Private Pilots (if I get appropriate numbers to cover my travel costs!) If you know anyone or have any suggestions please PM me.

[Mach E Avelli]

Assuming that you have the necessary ATO privileges, I think you would be less than welcome in any of the major rural centres where there are flying schools etc attempting to eke out a living. Most of these places have a developed rapport with local pilots, many of whom are known quantities because that's where they learned to fly. So, that leaves the more remote places, where at any one time there are very few pilots likely to be in need of a BFR.
My case in point. To come to my little airfield you would have to fly then hire a car to get to the airfield about 150 km away. I can't fly my RA aeroplane into controlled airspace to pick you up. There are about 20 pilots active at the airfield, all with differing BFR expiry dates, but with a lot of co-ordination on your part you might line three up in one day. Personally, I would expect to complete a BFR in two hours of your time. One for briefing/questions and one to demonstrate my ability to fly an aeroplane that I bet you have never even seen, let alone would be competent enough in to test. Your time to me is worth 50-60 bucks an hour, because that's about all any instructor can hope for. So, you need to do this test for 100-120 bucks, otherwise I will jump in my bugsmasher and fly it to a school 15 minutes away where I know and trust the CFI to be fair and maybe will give me a couple of useful tips along the way. He will be quite happy with a cash payment of $100. Hell, for not much more I can hire HIS aeroplane for an hour and beat the crap out of it instead of mine.
Now extrapolate my attitude to some place way out west where there are only three pilots active on the field. As well as airfares, car hire and hotel accommodation, you have to eat somewhere. Those three pilots at 120 bucks each - or even 220 bucks each - won't cover that little exercise.
Not to rain on your parade, but I reckon you would go broke on the first trip.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

I did a run like this through northern WA a few years back, mostly PPLs who lived on stations. The average time since their last review was around 20 years. At least the ones I saw actually did have licences! It was a good laugh but just a one-off and not much money in it as they all wanted to use thier own aircraft...:eek:

[rgmgbg01]

I think you will find that you need an AOC to do GA flight reviews. Your AOC will limit you to training at approved locations.

The pity of this problem is that you might make aviation safer in remote locations.........

I for one would not be thrilled if you turned up at "my airfield" and took "my students"

[185skywagon]

I think you would be less than welcome in any of the major rural centres where there are flying schools
Not many in the inland of QLD 'cept Toowoomba, Emerald and Rocky. That still leaves a lot of possibilities.
Eg YBCV, YLRE, YBMA, YQLP, YROM, which all have quite a few PPL's and RAA pilots.

go for it.

[Horatio Leafblower]

I wonder if BFRs exist in that "grey area" on the fringes of what is actually "training"? you DO need to be working under an AOC but does it need to be from the one location?

The definition of an "Appropriate Person" includes most ATOs, including a guy otherwise only approved for "company" work.

Eg: In my town I have the only flying school but there are 3 Ag pilots based here who are CASA-approved CAR217 Check Pilots/ATOs and (according to CASA) they can do BFRs. Thankfully they have been happy to leave that end of the market to those of us trying to feed keeds/pay mortgages from instructional stuff.

...and I would be highly amused if you turned up in my town because if there are 5 BFRs in a month it's a remarkable month. How would ya make money from that?

[dudduddud]

Well if you weren't in it for the money it would probably be quite an interesting thing to do I'd imagine?

[poteroo]

As far as I know, under RAA you will need to have each location that you plan to operate from - included on your FTF approval. I'm assuming that you actually have an FTF approval, or your CFI will do all this paperwork for you. In any case, you will need a briefing facility etc in order to qualify for a SFTF. Just ask the local operator if you can use theirs. Maybe they'll even collect the money for you?

I guess the same welcome mat will be out for you from the local GA AOC holder.

I hope you're well qualified too - the last 5 BFR's that I've done here under GA have included an RV6, a Ravin 500, a C180, a C185, and an RV-10. Pilots are usually looking for a BFR of something more than a revision of the sequences in the same basic trainer that they qualified in.

happy days,

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

AFR's are under specific approval of an AOC. If you want to conduct training at a remote location not listed on the AOC, you will require approval from CASA including for the facilities to be used (briefing area, aids etc.). As you will find many AOC's specifying remote training is not permitted within 100nm of another AOC's location, this will further reduce the locations available.
If you don't have an AOC, why are you advertising?


Smells like windup spirit.....

[Instructor-T]

Thanks for your responses.

It was a suggestion from my FOI to look into it in the next 5 to 10 years.

AFR/BFR's are not limited to an AOC holders FTF's.

[LexAir]

Have a look at the relevant CAAP: http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_81_1.pdf

[LexAir]

Have a look at the latest CAAP
http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_81_1.pdf

[Mach E Avelli]

When WILL CASA get its sh!t in a pile? The CAAP paragraph 6.5 bangs on about 'authorised' flight instructors having to work under an AOC. No clarity, as the remainder of the document only uses terms like 'flight instructor' or 'ATO' . Read in isolation 6.5 is almost a non sequitur.
WHY oh WHY can't CASA just spell it out once and once only without us having to trawl back through the CARs to see what they really mean? One lawyer could interpret this as meaning ALL tests (or 'reviews' in this case - yet another term open to interpretation) have to be done under the auspices of an AOC, while another more clever lawyer could argue "not so if you are an ATO" and yet another intent on baffling us all would say that an ATO is an 'authorised' instructor but a 'flight' instructor may not be 'authorised'. Arrgghhhh!

[LexAir]

Spot on (or possibly not). This is what keeps lawyers in work! To quote from a famous trilogy of 4 books, wherein the philosopher's union stated in response to the building of "Deep Thought" the computer, "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty".

Keep it up CASA!

[TSIO540]

AFR's are under specific approval of an AOC

When I was instructing in 2007, an AFR was determined by CASA to be a private operation that could be conducted by any 'approved' person.. namely a qualified instructor (Min grade 2 with >400 hours of instruction and a written entry in their logbook by a CFI stating that they are suitably qualified and experienced to conduct an AFR).

The thing that scared me was that I could only conduct a review, not a test so I couldn't fail any of the shockers I saw.. I just had to strenuously recommend further training.. with a rock solid pre-signed liability waiver