From Sandpit to Singapore

[ShinjukuHustler]

Was going to post this on the Tiger forum but seems it has been closed down due to excessive deviation off topic...

Anyway, has anyone moved from the Sandpit to Singapore? Having experienced both, which one were you most happy in? How did the cost of living compare? (forget about petrol, that doesnt count as it is dirt cheap in M.East and it seems like you don't really need a car in SIN)

How did your families handle the transition?

Any info or experiences appreciated.

Hustle On:ok:

[thrustpig]

Statistically, you would be in the minority. The flow recently has been more towards the ME. Singapore cost of living has steadily increased. Many expats in Singapore have seen their salaries slowly absorbed and saving potential erroded. If you have a family and have had the use of a car, then not to have one in singapore will be like having your legs amputated.

[Arkdriver744]

Singapore is expensive and there is real downward pressure on terms and conditions. If you have children of school age or are offered a local contract it is really not worth it.

If you are a single Captain or a married Captain with no children and on an expat contract then it is an average option.

[NZ X man]

Having lived in both places, the ME is cheap, fuel, food, usually your accommodation is covered. Singapore, very expensive housing and transport if you own your car. But for a place to live and close to some equally neat places, Singapore has much more to offer. A bit more restrictive rules wise compared to anywhere in the ME, but a better lifestyle. I also think that ,as stated above, the quality of contracts is not what it use to be, so unless you really go over it well and negotiate equally well, you might find that you are unable to really put money away for the future as you would in the ME. The people are very friendly and much more outwordly helpful in Singapore, every kind of food you could imagine. Short trip to Malaysia or Indonesia.

Cheers, my 2 cents worth.

[parabellum]

If you have a family and have had the use of a car, then not to have one in Singapore will be like having your legs amputated.


Not really that bad!!! Public transport and taxis are both cheap and plentiful. Went from two cars Bahrain to no car Singapore, lasted ten years, just very occasionally a car would have been really, really useful but a total waste of money the rest of the time.

[duelinput]

in kuwait for 80hrs the f/o salary = capt salary in sin

in kwi you pay us$1500 for a 2 bedroom but us$2500 in sin with same facilities

in kwi it rains only 10 days/y but in sin it's skc only 10 days/y

in kwi a 4x4 costs us$20.000 and in sin you get a small car from us$50.000

so if you enjoy to earn less, spend more and use the public transportation grab your umbrella and go for sin :}

[Left Coaster]

In SIN you can have a beer anytime you like!
In SIN you can live longer as the people who DO own a car actually know how to drive it...;)
I could go on, but why bother? The argument is all the same for wherever you want to work...
We came back to to the ME for the main reason that the SQC T and C's were and are constantly reduced arbitrarily and they will not be raised for a long time. The routes at the airline were mostly fun to fly, the guys on the FD are (for the most part) great to work alongside, but the roster awarded never did actually resemble the one flown...despite good efforts to build reasonable rules...the company simply refused to follow any good practises...something to be aware of if you are interested. The claim above that most Singaporeans were nice people...is a bit of a stretch, they would push their own Granny out of the way if it meant they could beat out an Ang Mo to a door or a taxi...they will back down if challenged however...it's all about face in the island state...to make a long story short...we miss very little of the place except maybe the food court near to where we lived! Now that was something to remember!
LC

[Patty747400]

KWI???

I thought people would compare Singapore with decent places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi...

LC is correct. The T&C for SinCargo has been the same since 2005 and thus has fallen behind.

After you've paid for your house, utilities, school and the taxman the net is the same for a (expat) captain in SinCargo as for a first officer in EK. And remember that in Singapore you are on a contract that will expire so if your timing is bad you'll be out of a job in three or five years time. That will not happen in the desert...

[krismiler]

I'm sure SQ have taken notice of what happened over at Tiger Airways when Tony Davis tried to screw down the pilots conditions, over half of his captains and quite a few f/os resigned over the last six months.

There was chaos with around 1/3 of flights being cancelled some days, and this is still going on. High cost contract pilots are being pulled in as fast as possible to plug the gap in an urgent attempt to stem the losses as the school holidays/christmas/new year/CNY peak travel period looms.

Plenty of B744 freighter jobs advertised in Flight International with Air China, Jade, Grandstar and GSS if our management don't start waking up soon.:hmm:

[Arkdriver744]

The idea of anticipating a problem and spending money on it before it arrives is not something that HR (who think they run Flt Ops) are ever likely to do.

So, until there are airplanes sat on the ground without crew to operate them there is hardly any chance of a substantial pay rise. We all know that it takes at least 7 months from advertising for new pilots to having them as productive crew but it doesnt seem to bother HR. It's just the way they operate and I cant see that changing anytime soon.

[ShinjukuHustler]

Good afternoon,

I really appreciate all the responses on here, they are all helpful. What is baffling me now is that as an expat working there they insist on you paying their taxes but don't allow you to send your kids to their schools or use their hospitals without paying large sums of money.

In my home country, if you as as foreigner work, reside there legally and pay taxes, you get to send your kids to the local schools and visit the local hospitals without these excess charges.

I guess it is all about value for money, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of that there right now.

I know money isn't everything and the lifestyle and experiences are a huge part of it but I would rather not be just 'surviving' from pay check to pay check.

Thanks again for all of your responses.
:ok:

[slayerdude]

hustler.... you still get to send your kids to local school...agreed you do pay more than a citizen student... but still heaps cheaper than the expat schools.... however you get last choice for school placing as an expat student. As for hospitals... everybody here is on health insurance ... n yes the company does pay for health insurance for the family (wife n 2kids)... you??? the company pays for you hospital visits ....and the lodgings we get at the hospital... no too shabby...

[Metro man]

Medical care is of a high standard though rather expensive. As a foreigner you would be ineligible for subsidies enjoyed by the locals, however you would probably want something better than a non airconditioned public ward. As the standard goes up, the subsidy goes down so you are most likely looking at insurance anyway.

Locals get priority for school place allocation in the government system, realistically you have zero chance of getting your children into the popular schools. This is worth considering when deciding where to live. Have a look at this for more information Ministry of Education, Singapore: International Student Admissions (http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/admissions/international-students/)

Private schools can have waiting lists and are rather expensive so it's definately worth sorting out schooling before you relocate your family, as you may have to organise accommodation depending on where your children will be accepted.

[Patty747400]

"n yes the company does pay for health insurance for the family (wife n 2kids)"

That health insurance is nothing but a joke. Anything more serious than a cold and you will have to pay most of it yourself.
If you have a serious accident or illness it will cover your family member up to 5000 SGD which maybe will pay for a day in ICU...
If you relocate to Singapore, calculate with spending anything between 5-10000 SGD a year for health insurance.

[richard III]

Hi all:
Interesting would be to know where are you planning to come.
For:
-Great city
-Great for family, extremely safe and westernized. Kids can move on their own.
-If SQ, SQC or Silkair, stable companies, good network and aircraft.
-health like everywhere, you get good insurance, you get good coverage and health.
Against:
-Need between SGD 80 and 100k to set up shop in SIN, depending on size of family.(bond, rental deposit, schools and furnishing your place...do not include the car)
-if expat contract, 5 year contract, that's a big if, these days.
-if you want to go home often it will dent your budget.
-expensive if you have kids of school age