Nervous in the cockpit.

[Tima84]

Hello everybody!
I am currently going through my type rating on the a 320, pretty much at the end of the "main" training. I only have 230 hours, since I got into the airline through a cadet scheme.
Anyways, from the beginnig of my training being nervous always messed with my progress. I cant control it, especially in the beginning. I usually study enough, practice in front of the paper tiger, but when it comes to real simlator I get absolutely lost, shaking and making absolutely stupid, absolutely dumb mistakes. My instructor thinks I am a complete idiot. Although I am going to do my skill test tonight, I have already got 2 remidial sessions.
When I just started flying on the piper I had a similar problem, after a while I got more confident and less nervous. But that was piper, a toy. Airbus is a real machine, requires thinking ahead, which I cannot do.
I guess I just wanted to tell this to somebody. Maybe someone can give me an advice. I really love flying, but lately I dread going into the sim.

[wiggy]

Tima84

I don't have any magic solution, but I can empathise. I used to suffer horribly with nerves whenever a checkride appeared on the schedule. Even now, 30 plus years down the road from "basic" I still get what I regard as mild stage fright/keyed for check rides/sims.

after a while I got more confident and less nervous

:ok:

For now, stick with the prep, look round at course mates who have passed rides and think "if they can do it, so can I", and if you do think you've made a mistake, try to put it out of your mind...easier said than done I know.

Good luck, and I hope someone else can come up with something really constructive.

[INNflight]

Before you go in for a session, think of the last time, but not as in "that was scary", but "that was something to learn from". Think of what you did wrong, and don't go crazy about it, but analyze it. What step did you do incorrectly?

First off, a sim is there to make initial mistakes, no harm done with that. You have to CLEARLY look back at your previous session and analyze your way of making the error. Was it just plain nervousness? Then take your time and think again before executing something. There is (usually) no harm done in taking a second or three longer to push a button when that helps you to push the right one.

Don't overthink it, just focus on what you learned. After a hew dozen hours you'll look back and see you progressed a lot.

An Airbus is just as much a toy as is a Piper. There's pax in both, buttons in both, blue side needs to be up in both. Don't get overly stressed because it's a faster, heavier toy ;)

BTW: A training captain I talked to once mentioned that he considers your first actual flight in the aircraft a successful one if you get the seat the way you want it. The rest will follow smoothly :ok:

[adverse-bump]

cadet scheme

by this do you mean your on a pay to fly program, if so. your instructor is right - you are an idiot! and hopefully its all gone wrong and theres one less idiot up in the air.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Well how on earth did you get to where you are now?!

[demomonkey]

Sometimes in flying 'less is more'. Hypertension will definitely lower your ability to learn and your ability to perform. Your instructor is there to teach you and adjust their techniques to your learning style. If they can't, they should think of possibly swapping themselves with a different instructor.

I think most people (to one extent or another) will have suffered something similar. The process of learning isn't always a steady and constant progression so you shouldn't expect it to be. As you wisely note, you have recognised parallels between your experiences earlier in your training and now. Try and examine how you conquered your fears back then. It might just be that you very acutely recognise your lack of capacity and that makes you panic. Most of us don't even have the capacity to recognise our lack of capacity as we blissfully but confidently do something stupid. Remember that blissful confidence is far more dangerous than perceived incompetence in a flying environment!

Talk to people about your fears. If you don't feel comfortable with your instructor maybe a more senior instructor will be able to assist. I can guarantee that you won't be the first person in this position and you definitely won't be the last. Too often in this industry there is the pseudo pyscho b*ll*cks to man up and pretend everything is ok and act confident otherwise it scares the troops etc. Pretending to be confident is stupid.

The ability to project ahead comes naturally when your comfortable. Thus your capacity grows to consider potential threats. Capacity, unfortunately cannot be purchased, downloaded, copied or assumed. It's just something that comes.

Good luck, keep trying, keep your head up and don't beat yourself up so much! :ok:

[Tima84]

Thanks for your help.
Also, my instructor is amazing. He is really calm in the plane. It just frustrates him when he explains everything in the briefing and when it comes to doing it in the sim everything goes absolutely wrong. So it is mostly my problem, and I cant even imagine changing him. We are finished anyways, the only thing left is the skill test.

Airline paid for us to study, I did not pay a cent.

[DrJones]

I too can suffer from slight nerves just before an LPC/OPC - I think if truth were to be told most pilots suffer from slight nerves even though they may not admit to it!

For me the key is not too over analyse what you about to do and just go with flow.

Once I'm sitting in my seat (important get good seat position and rudder pedals adjusted for you position) and called for the first checklist I then go with the flow and what's ever thrown at me deal with it accordingly (which sometimes is not pretty!)

[Bealzebub]

Sometimes in flying 'less is more'. Hypertension will definitely lower your ability to learn and your ability to perform. Your instructor is there to teach you and adjust their techniques to your learning style. If they can't, they should think of possibly swapping themselves with a different instructor.

Hypertension is the medical term for high blood pressure. I doubt this is the problem since the symptoms (few that they are) do not usually include those you describe. I suspect you mean nervous tension. Similarly I would disagree with the comment that the instructor is there to adjust their techniques to a candidates "learning style." Whilst it is certainly true that an instructor should be able to recognise a problem and find perhaps more than one way of resolving the problem, it is at this level not incumbent on the instructor to have to adapt to the candidate. Often a second opinion or assessment will be sought if a candidate is failing to make the requisite standard at whatever level they are being trained or examined.

Tima84 I would say the following.

I have worked with cadet pilots for the last 15 years. My biggest concern when I started doing so, was the absolute lack of exposure and experience that they brought to the role they were required to fulfill. However the flip side of that particular coin, was the enthusiasm, attitude and core "CRM" awareness that usually enabled them to understand their own (and others) limitations and to resouce advice and knowledge in a sensible and mature way. That attitude and maturity coupled with properly structured training, often providing the counterbalance to the concerns generated over the lack of experience. Of the cadets I have worked with over this time period, all have gone to on to make good captains within the normal chronological and experience required timescales. Many have gone on to make excellent managers within a wider remit.

I do have serious concerns that as the "cadet," and indeed the whole commercial flight training regime grows, the quality of output becomes diluted. I firmly believe that without measured and careful controls on selection, training and numbers, the flight deck of a jet airliner is not the natural or right place for a new 250 hour licence holder. Unfortunetaly many 250 hour licence holders believe that it is. This belief is borne out of a conviction that however a licence is acquired what is "good for the goose is good for the gander." When that is often demonstrably not the case. Similiarly the advertising hype of commercial schools is often geared to nourish this same misconception. Finally the vocal witterings of one or two high profile (publicity hungry) CEO's lends an added credence to those people hungry for vindication of their own perceptions.

Going back to your post, I think you are quite brave in being honest about your feelings and the situation you now find yourself in. I don't think there is anything unusual in being overwhelmed by requirements that would normally far exceed your level of experience. Given what I have already said, and the situation you have described, I would do that thing that your CRM weighted training should have taught you was central, and that is an extension of what you are doing in this thread, communicate.

It can sometimes be a difficult thing to do, but I would ask to speak to your instructor or chief training captain in private and tell them your feelings and concerns. Most people will not only appreciate your self awareness and honesty, but will also want to exercise their own skills in seeking a satisfactory resolution where one can be realistically achieved. I doubt your instructor feels you are a complete idiot, more likely that is your perception because it is how you feel you are coming across. The remedial training you are stating you have had, may be insufficient if your own self confidence is not commensurate with the standards you need to achieve and display at this point.

Being nervous, apprehensive, concerned, unsure, worried are all normal parts of the adrenalin producing "fight or flight" response. The vast majority of people will have these things to some degree, every time they are placed in a position of jeopardy or perceived jeopardy. Controlled, it is a necessary part of what allows us to deal with difficult and threatening situations. Uncontrolled, it often develops in to what we call "panic" or "breakdown."

Confidence comes with experience, as you have already discovered. Stress is often a trigger for the production of adrenalin necessary to deal with these aspects of examination or jeopardy. The important thing is being able to control the levels and duration of that stress so that they do not become negative or damaging. Often experience provides the cure, so in the absence of that experience you need a greater sense of self awareness and caution. Even with years of experience the potential jeopardy of an examination still gives most people (including me) the same worries and performance anxieties.

Control your stress as best as you can, and try and use it to produce the performance you know you are capable of, and are expected to display. If your concerns go deeper than this, then discuss them in a timely and appropriate manner with your instructor or head of the training department.

One thing everybody wants is for you to be successful.

When I just started flying on the piper I had a similar problem, after a while I got more confident and less nervous. But that was piper, a toy. Airbus is a real machine, requires thinking ahead, which I cannot do.

No, the Piper is not a toy, it is an aircraft. The Airbus is an aircraft. It is a much bigger and more complicated aircraft, but it is not a toy either. You fly the seat you are in and what is bolted on the back will simply follow. The airbus is also a multi crew aircraft that requires an additional operating philosophy. Both require the ability to "think ahead" to anticipate, plan, reserve options, adapt, communicate. It is unlikely that you would have become "more confident and less nervous" in the former if you had not already exercised these attributes. The Airbus will certainly require you to exercise them in spades, and you should ensure that you do. You might argue that the simulator is a "toy" in that it is not an aircraft and can be reset to forgive errors and mistakes that might be serious or fatal in the real world. However it is a very expensive toy that is designed to replicate the threats associated with the real article.

[mr.bee]

...by this do you mean your on a pay to fly program, if so. your instructor is right - you are an idiot! and hopefully its all gone wrong and theres one less idiot up in the air....

@adverse-bump

There's no need to be cruel.

Perhaps before you post again, accusing others of being 'idiots', you might find your time better spent reading up on capitalisation, contracted form and, crucially, possessive adjectives.

Just a thought.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Some good advice here mate.

Sharing my own experience, the thing that springs to mind is the term 'hanging on by your finger nails'. That is certainly the feeling I had when I did the Airbus course.

You have to respect the fact the course really is the minimum, in terms of your knowledge of the aeroplane and your skill to fly it. I am sure you will meet the standard required, but it is tough and I sympathise with you as I know how it feels.

It is all building blocks mate. Once you have passed your LST, you move into a new area of your career. You have done the type rating, now you have to learn how to operate the aircraft in the commercial world. After a while, you will build an experience base, get more confident and eventually will start to enjoy it, this is where you win the battle of your own self doubt. And believe me it is a great feeling. All of a sudden you are going to work, and really enjoying yourself and you are getting pocket money to make a living, its great.

I wish you all the best, let us all know how you get on.

[Northbeach]

Tima84,

From your data you are 26; whether you like hearing it or not, you are young and inexperienced. We have all been there; at 26 you are still extremely young.

You have 230 hours of flight time. Professionally you are a novice; to your credit you did use the “only” word describing your flight time. At least you recognize your limited background. It is likely that you have never flown a single hour for compensation yet, let alone flying through several winter seasons making command decisions. Other than the knowledge required to pass the exams you have virtually no foundation. None of this is your “fault” nor are you a “bad person” it is just the reality of your aviation background and contributes to the dread you say that you feel going to the simulator.

Your performance stinks and you can’t “fix it” there is too much going on: it’s dark, the profiles and checklists are complicated, time pressure, one event followed by another, evaluating performance that is supposed to be up to par-but you have never seen this before or gone through anything similar, running checklists regarding system abnormalities on systems don’t really understand because you have never seen anything like them before. Then there is the FMS……(Dear GOD, what is it doing now?)….and that was the first sim session. You are trying to drink out of a fire hose connected to your face………and it is ugly.

You are in an Airbus training regime; you are in way over your head, and your performance shows it. Your recent past failures and embarrassment terrify you to the point you are unable to perform. Ok that’s the bad news. Have I correctly understood your current predicament?

Having been involved in an airline training programme I can offer you the following advice. Effort and attitude contribute mightily. Accept your instructors critique and try as hard as possible to incorporate all of their advice. If the instructor is worth anything that instructor will know about your limited background and tailor their instruction to your needs. As pilots most of us have a strong tendency towards perfectionism, we hate making mistakes and we tend to beat ourselves up after we make them. However beating yourself up before, during and after the simulator session does not improve performance. Tima84, at this point you may be sabotaging your chance for success.

Many of us had 10 – 20 years in the industry before we were in an Airbus/Boeing and we still got nervous going through training. Being nervous is completely natural. It becomes a problem if that nervousness prevents us from performing. You are in the training programme; either somebody believed you could get through the training and contribute to their financial bottom line flying airplanes for them, or you were lied to and they were more interested in you paying them for unused simulator time. Either way you are where you are so make the best of it. Here is my advice; relax as best as you can, do not emotionally beat yourself to a pulp, glean every experience from your current Airbus training and hopefully you will get through and get out on the line-where your training will continue.

Attitude, humility and effort will carry you a very long way. They will have to because you do not have 10 winters, 3 type ratings and 8,000+ hours of experince to carry you through-it simply is not there.

Please get back to us and let us know how you fared.

Hoping for your every success,

[WELCO]

After you finish your pre-sim briefings, try to have a short break of relaxation away from others and do some "mental rehearsal" of what you are expected to do when you get in the sim. It's like a warm-up for your mind before it gets into action.


Good luck.

[Jumbo744]

Excellent thread!
Tima84, good luck!! :ok:

[Diver_Dave]

I do try to stay out of anything like this relating
to training as flying is purely an interest for me and
I am in no way shape or form an aviation professional...

However... You knew that was coming!

I have a possibly unique point of view in that
a) I teach diving
and
b) I've been run through the mill on what's the most
stressful course I've ever done when I learnt to Cave Dive.

With all these failure to perform tend to be a deep rooted
Physiological as well as Psychological reaction, and, one that
negative reinforcement tends to play havoc. The expectation
that you will forget / do badly / freeze feeds upon itself and
correspondingly causes the effect you're trying to prevent, but...

You already knew that.

From experience I know that you know this however, what you
need is the mental tools to deal with not the problem you're having
n the sim, but, what's reinforcing those issues.

Now, conventional wisdom says that one good ride / dive will clear
the initial anxiety and it's probably true that once you've a good
ride under your belt you can then deal with the more complex scenarios
as they start to present[1]. Although you need to know what to do to get
'the good ride'

From my discipline the way I work is very much on the tree basis.
A leads to B which leads to C or D then E. F, G or H. Without knowing
your SOP's is it possible to build a mental 'look up table'? I appreciate that
you have far more variables to deal with., but, just being able to shorten the
decision tree should help a bit.

For what it's worth, the fact you are able to admit the issue / problem
and appreciate that it's there goes a long way to solving it. It shows
you're prepared to accept advice and acknowledge your limits. I wish we had a few more like that in the
early stages of their diving career, it would
cut the accident statistics somewhat!


As Northbeach said, do let us know how it goes, and WELCO's advice
of a quiet 5 min post brief / pre-ride should help a lot as well.

Good luck

DaveA



[1] For me complex line following through junctions, lights out sharing
air 45 minutes from a cave exit was about as complex as it got. But
the sudden air loss from both tanks (unbriefed failure) really drummed in
how much I'd learnt, big POP behind me and the feeling of air flowing out of
both tanks is not one I'm likely to forget in a hurry

[SpreadEagle]

I started reading the OP and thought 'Poor guy'. That must be horrible. All that effort, investment, then finally your big break and nerves let you down.

But then I read where you had proudly posted ...
Airline paid for us to study, I did not pay a cent.

And I thought, why are airlines still investing in unknown quantities at vast expense, when there are so many out of work experienced pilots out there? You aren't the right guy for the job. You got nerves facing a Piper. Then over that, you got nerves in the unfamiliar surroundings of an Airbus and again perform badly. What happens on a day when you get an emergency in your shiny Airbus and are faced with a new situation you aren't comfortable with? Do you turn to the other pilot and say "Sorry I'm nervous, I won't perform well"?

I wouldn't have bothered posting and then I read ...
But that was piper, a toy

Well I paid for my training myself. I had to really look long and hard for a job and consider myself very lucky to have one. I don't get nervous, and its a good job, because I sometimes fly with :mad: like you who regularly try to kill me, in a Piper of all things.

You reminded me of the quote ...
"It is strange the way the ignorant and inexperienced so often and undeservedly succeed, when the informed and experienced fail" - Mark Twain

I now hope your flying doesn't improve, until your attitude has. :ugh:

[ReverseFlight]

I agree it is wrong to belittle a Piper - the fundamental principles of flight remain the same for larger aircraft.

I hope Tima84 isn't one of those who'd been persuaded by parents or family to take up a flying career. Or perhaps he had rushed through his initial IR and ATPLs without really understanding them. I see a lot of students in these situations and their nerves show when they go for a checkride.

Those who really have a natural flair for flying tend to really want to do it themselves, to the extent they may have learnt and known everything about flying a Boeing or Airbus before they even start their type rating. And some of them are much younger his age (26).

It's the same with other careers like medicine or law.

[lonkmu]

I call wind up

[hazholmes]

SpreadEagle,

A little harsh, no? How about a little empathy maybe. In my limited experience nerves are something that can be overcome with familiarity and practice; this applies to all aspects of life and not just aviation. Ask any barrister or surgeon and I'll be amazed if they aren't nervous after newly qualifiying, having to make the leap into practising what they have been studying so hard for. The fact the OP is continually makin mistakes is not something I can offer much help with.

I was extremely nervous before I did my Xcountry flight for my PPL, does that mean I shouldn't aspire to a professional position?

Perhaps it was the way I read it, but you seem to be very bitter about the fact that the OP is having his TR paid for by his employer. If you care to step down from your 'super cool and composed high horse' that you appear to be on, maybe you will appreciate the fact that the OP has progressed this far to at least a satisfactory standard, so who are you to judge that he/she isn't cut out for this job? You clearly made no mistakes or had any hiccups on your way to where you are now.

As for your quote and closing sentence....I think your attitude is the one which could do with changing. Whatever happened to helping out your fellow man before berating and judging them on an internet forum?!

I don't claim to have any professional experience, but took offence to your post so am simply offering my opinion.

[Ptimat31]

Spreadeagle, Obviously you are the person who decides who's fit for the job or not. You had never any doubt or apprenhension before flying. Thanks god aviation still has some superior minds like you... to screw it up with overconfidence and disdain for others.

[SupaMach]

:ugh:
What a nice guy.

I don't think he is slagging the piper, but it is indeed a completely different beast to an A320.. it feels very weird just going from an MEP back into it, let alone a bus!

[SpreadEagle]

A little harsh, no? Perhaps.

How about a little empathy maybe.
As mentioned, I had empathy until I read on.

but took offence to your post so am simply offering my opinion.
You are welcome to do so. I was offended that the OP thinks having spent several years flying at vast expense, that my job must be little more than a joke flying toys, and offered my opinion. I suspect those who spent the time training him, would probably feel the same.

maybe you will appreciate the fact that the OP has progressed this far to at least a satisfactory standard
maybe
I have already got 2 remidial sessions

For the record, it would not be human, to not get nervous. I was nervous when I did my IR, as I suspect everyone is. But that's an exam. Not every time you go near a plane or a sim. That sounds like a crisis of confidence.

However I suspect you and I have been unnecessarily offended, as lonkmu may well be right anyway. :(

[Tima84]

This is Amazing!
Thank you guys again! I really apreciate all the help.
I passed my exam the day I started the topic. It went really well and our examiner gave me and my crew mate good remarks. We made some minor mistakes but overall it went smooth. I thanked my instructor via sms, but still have to send him an e mail. After all I am so thankfull to him. I deserved the beatings :) Will have to work on thinking ahead, that will make me more aware and less nervous.
Also, wanted to apologise for calling Piper a toy. Maybe I didnt choose my words properly. I meant that Piper became so familiar after a while, that it really did not give me any stress before a flight. I was still vigilant, but not nervous. I have never experienced a real emergency in those training aircraft and do not know all the capabilities. So again, please forgive me for my ignornce. I will always love the Seminole and the Warrior and the Arrow.
It is my 2nd day home. Just arrived yesterday morning. We have base training in a couple of days, cant wait!

Cant thank you enough, for all the help! I have not read it until today, and even though I passed me exam I am so happy that there are so many people that really care! I will try t return the favour when somebody will need help!:ok:

[Piltdown Man]

You will now start line training and here the pressure will mount and real life events can place more stress on you than those in the sim. There is no magic cure for dealing with the stress that will come but may I make the following suggestions:

1. Don't drag the past with you. If you foul up, so what. We all do. Leave it behind. Get on with the next job.
2. Before it happens, think what the next job is and prepare for it. And the one following etc. All the time your priorities should change.
3. Before committing yourself, consider what you wouldn't like to happen - like a last minute runway change for example. How will you deal with that?
4. If you look like you are getting high on profile, or low on speed on the approach - take some bloody action early. Then small changes will be required instead of HUGE ones. Don't let yourself get painted into a corner.
5. Have a rough idea where you are. What will be your MSA in ten minutes time? If you have to divert or land quickly, where will you go?

This isn't an exhaustive list nor is it the definitive one, but it might help. And well done on passing your test.

[wiggy]

And well done on passing your test.



Seconded, :ok:.

[SpreadEagle]

Congratulations, though I won't take any credit for helping. :ok:

Sorry for reacting to the Piper thing. Just rubbed me up the wrong way at the end of a long week. Good luck in the bus.

[avi8r.mir]

Hi

I took my A320 rating about a year ago, and i have not got any job offers.

Its like every year you have to do a LPC, (what a wast of money), anybody want to do the LPC with me? , i need a partner. I have to complete LPC this month october 2010, some where in EU. Any suggestion ?!

cheers !

[Civagiarn]

A bit of nervousness is a good thing (not too-much), its the body keeping you alert and helping you make quick decisions. Being overly relaxed tends to be more dangerous in flying.

[jamier]

I can only type this as ground crew on military aircraft, however when learning our "see-off" and "see-in" procedures i found that i would get extremly nervous when the aircrew were approaching the aircraft and when the aircraft returning from a sortie would be approaching the pan.

I found "and it doesnt work for everyone" that if i listened to a certain song or type of music it would relax me enough so that when i went out to do a see-off or see-in i would have a clear head. I also talked to my instructors after each procedure to see what they had picked up on and then concentrated on correcting the mistakes 1 at a time.

hope this helps in some way

[P-T]

I was given the best bit of advice by one of my RAF instructors when I started to flap and panic.

Be like a duck - calm and collected on the surface, giving the impression to everyone that you know what's going on, but paddling like hell underneath. slowly but surely, by trying to portray a calm outlook I started to be calm inside.

I am always keen to get things done quickly and enthusiastically and this can often result in things looking panicked (not sure that's a word?) or rushed. I was also told a bit of advice by one of my TR instructors on the 757, "sit on your hands, count to 3 then do what you were going to do" this inevitably has stopped me making a countless number of rushed errors in the past. After all, if it's not on fire or in decompression - what's the rush?

Things will get better with experience - just remember, you wouldn't be where you are now if you weren't any good.

Take a deep breath count to three and try again.

Good luck

[Denti]

Yup, the old advice to "sit on your hands and count to x" was given to my course during the very first few days at flight school and it helped me lots of times since then. Of course starting flight school with a couple hundred hours of glider flying helped quite a bit as well.

[Mikehotel152]

the old advice to "sit on your hands and count to x"
was most certainly not given to me during my commercial flying training.

Quite the reverse: my instructors always criticised me in the sim for being too slow and regarded it as evidence of a slow mind.

Thankfully, the attitude of Captains on the line has been quite different and my more careful approach to the serious business of flying is now applauded in my line checks. Furthermore, by learning at my pace and refusing to be rushed, things are now deeply inbedded in my pea-sized brain and my pace has quicked without sacrificing care.

There are very few situations where speed is more important that taking due care. In fact, I can't think of any.

[Tima84]

Thank you very much!
A lot of good advices here! Will definately use them during work!
Also received my ICAO english profeciency results today! I got a level 6!
So Happy!!! (Just wanted to brag, sorry for offtopic)

[Linerider]

I read this thread when you first posted on here, and I just checked back to see if you passed your sim check. I see you did pass, so congratulations! It seems to me that you are a lot more capable than you realise. Every time you go in the sim, or fly on the line, the environment will become more familiar and you will become more confident.

You sound like a down to earth guy who is not afraid to admit the challenges you face in life (we all have them). I wish you the best for the future.

[de facto]

Tima84

'and even though I passed me exam'

Must be a spelling error:suspect:

Seriously,well done.
Now enjoy the base training,and try not to worry too much and remember of dual RA failure during flare:}

Line training is the moment when you start shaping yourself into one professional and experienced Captain,so read read read read learn learn learn.