View Full Version : Kettle Calls Pot Black

5th Oct 2010, 08:26
Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black.
Mr Joyce said he is not concerned with Middle Eastern carriers because he believes the airlines long standing alliance with British Airways and Air France will enable them to stay in competition.

“Because of our links with British Airways, we’re staying out of it and our performance has been stable compared to what we’ve been seeing with the Middle Eastern carriers,” he said.

However, rejecting Etihad did not stop the CEO from voicing objections to the Virgin/ Etihad alliance stating the airlines have not had to go through the same hurdles they went through during the first stages of their alliance with British Airways.

“We objected to the process they were going through, not to the deal itself, because the process for us, it is not the same process Qantas had to go through,” Mr Joyce said.

Mr Joyce also added he did not think alliance between Virgin and Air New Zealand would experience difficulties and may not happen because of the ACCC.
Surely AJ understands that the logic he wishes applied, isn’t the case when it comes to Qantas’ establishment of Jetstar.

Go John!

5th Oct 2010, 10:42
Just as black is_Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary's warning about an end to cheap air fares for his airline. He stated in the Guardinan that the company will begin to focus on quality rather than price. Original article from the Guardinan can be found at: Ryanair must move away from low fares, says O'Leary | Business | The Observer (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/sep/12/ryanair-move-away-from-low-fares)

5th Oct 2010, 11:09
Chaps in the City can't figure it out.

They find O'Leary's news quite surprising. Ryanair is widely viewed to be one of the best examples of a low-cost carrier (LCC) in the world.

Is loud whispers that they are worried. Given the company's strict adoption of the model, O'Leary's statement brings into question the long-run sustainability of the LCC model.


5th Oct 2010, 13:36
Southwest Airlines was originally incorporated to serve three cities in Texas as Air Southwest on March 15, 1967

Yeah, that whole LCC thing is a flash in the pan.....

...still single
5th Oct 2010, 18:24
...but what is an LCC today?

I've recently flown on Southwest and apart from the 'choose your own seat' thing, it's better than the legacy airlines.
Legacies charge extra for food, charge for all checked luggage, while Southwest lets me check two bags for free and gives me free peanuts and softdrink -and 2nds if I want. What was once 'cheap and nasty' is now pretty good, all because the others plumbed new lows in service.

5th Oct 2010, 19:00

That's the point- LCCs can actually match traditional carriers for service while beating them on price BECAUSE tey keep their costs down.

Things like one-type fleets, no or minimal overnights, quick turnarounds etc. mean that on the same route they have lower costs, and thus can make profits ofering lower prices with greater service than legacies.

HOWEVER, another part of the South-west story has been a commitment to it's staff and customers- something Ryanair thought it could ignore- perhaps now to it's detriment.

5th Oct 2010, 19:07
HOWEVER, another part of the South-west story has been a commitment to it's staff and customers- something Ryanair thought it could ignore- perhaps now to it's detriment.

Delete "Ryanair" & insert Easyjet, Jetstar, Tiger, etc, etc.

5th Oct 2010, 20:07
Go & read the reviews or buy NUTS (http://www.amazon.com/Southwest-Airlines-Business-Personal-Success/dp/0767901843/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286308649&sr=8-1) on the South West story. This is a must read book for everyone in the industry. They expanded SLOWLY, conserved cash & looked after the staff - this was their competitive advantage. Not a single LCC has been true to their progenitor, as it goes against the prevailing orthodoxy that employees are chattel.

3 Holer
5th Oct 2010, 21:06
They expanded SLOWLY, conserved cash & looked after the staff -

That's the secret!

6th Oct 2010, 20:58
All that happens when you don't look after your staff, is you get staff being 'creative' about putting their own value into their jobs. Things like doing the bare minimum, seeing their workday as an opportunity to look after number one, learning how to avoid getting negative reports while doing whatever they feel like.

Service - is a business that relies on staff being creative in positive ways. You cannot buy service with a low wage.

I'm already seeing exactly what the low wages of our new recruits is buying us. The shiney new employee glow that once lasted a good two years is now gone in less than 6 months. New recruits are now pushy and rude and snort at any attempts at direction. They decide what part of our service model they feel like adopting on any given day and mostly are more interested in what magazines they can find in seat pockets than doing their actual job. :*

Someone needs to wake up. There isn't an endless supply of good people, sure a lot of people might apply for the job but 90% of them are unemployable. Applications received via a website is not an indicator of the size of the candidate pool, viable applications is.

Mr. Hat
6th Oct 2010, 21:18
Airbornesoon one of the best posts I've read in a while.

breakfastburrito, would be a good book to send to Nick Xenophon's office.

Capt Claret
6th Oct 2010, 22:43
Some time ago, measured in years rather than months, I read an article discussing workplace relations etc. Part of it said that the vast majority of employees, consciously or subconsciously, kept a mental ledger of fairness in the workplace.

Being rostered off for important days weighed for example, against being asked to stay back late to get the important job done. And so it goes on.

Most employees have a reasonable ledger of fairness but not all. Once the ledger tips too far in favour of the employer, the employee starts to feel bitter and resents the extra effort that not only goes unrecognized & oft unrewarded, but starts to withdraw because they no longer perceive that they're in a give & take relationship any more.

Sad really. One of the simple things in life, giving an employee a pat on the back is ignored, in favour of gimmicks that allow management & HR gurus to convince them selves that they're doing a great job, when all the while most employees see through the charade, and the whole enterprise suffers. :sad:

6th Oct 2010, 23:10
This topic rolls around now and again, and it never ceases to amaze me the grasp most people seem to have on the value of employee good will....all except those in the ivory towers:ugh: Can it be that managers, be they airline or any industry, are never taught this simple concept? And you have to ask, if they can't see such a basic human need that is common to us all, how right are they for the position? After all, even managers need to feel loved:E:O

CC, reading your post, I'd have to agree with the "fairness ledger", and it doesn't have to be big, dramatic presentations from the boss, but as you said, the special day off, maybe getting to leave a bit early for something you need to do, its those little, tiny gestures that mean so much and help right that ledger, so when the boss comes to you and says, "mate..." your more than happy to help. And who wouldn't want to work hard for a boss or company that treats you well and SINCERELY appreciates what you do for the company.

Heart string pulling rant over:D;):ok:

7th Oct 2010, 01:13
Mr Hat, brilliant suggestion, its a done deal. I'll go one better & include a copy of Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger Jr (http://www.amazon.com/Hard-Landing-Contest-Profits-Airlines/dp/0812928350/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286413746&sr=8-1) - another classic must read for everyone in the industry (if you can't buy it at least read the reviews on the amazon link).

7th Oct 2010, 01:28
Is a world of difference WIZOFOZ between South West and Ryan Air.

Both may claim to be LCC’s, but only one believes that Staff create the difference. I don’t hear South West warning of an end to bargain-basement fares and plans to shift away from its, "pile it high and sell it cheap," approach.

Understand Kelleher ran his airline on quite simple principles:
· Fly one type of aeroplane,
· Squeeze em in,
· Turn em around quickly; and
· Make employees owners.

Suspect the problem with Ryan Air_et.al, is as simple as - two bridges too far as also evidenced by VB's move up the ladder.

Mr. Hat
7th Oct 2010, 02:00
I reckon my best idea was to get Captain Sullenberger to Australia to meet Nick Xenophon. Have not been able to contact him thus far.

Anyone that knows people high up in AIPA AFAP VIPA TWU etc are welcome to have a go.

7th Oct 2010, 03:32
Understand Kelleher ran his airline on quite simple principles:
· Fly one type of aeroplane

Interestingly WN just acquired 86 B717s in their takeover of AirTran so is set to become a 2-type fleet.

(And they actually operated the B727 for a while in the early days too)

7th Oct 2010, 06:42
Southwest operated 727's for awhile as well.

7th Oct 2010, 07:47
WN = Southwest Airlines

7th Oct 2010, 21:26
'Squeeze em in,'

Southwest's seat pitch is 32-33 inches.

Much more Than DJ and QF's lousy 31 inch econ class sardine can pitch!