e-Readers. Specifcally Amazon Kindle

[Rossian]

...does anyone on planet Pprune know whether the Kindle make of e-reader straps one ONLY to A big south American river , or can one download books from other sources? SWMBO has asked me to pose the question here as positive results have come from here in the past. She is mulling over the choices, as we have a lot of long haul flying coming up in Feb/Mar next year.
TIA.

The Ancient Mariner

[Bushfiva]

Kindle supports various formats. Amazon's own azw, plus PDF, txt, mobi & prc (without DRM, i.e you can't buy a commercial product in mobi or prc format that has rights management, but you can buy one that doesn't); also MP3 and Audible audio. There are a couple of other formats supported by farting around with conversion software.

Some other formats can be converted for a fee by sending them to Amazon.

Finally, there are plenty of third parties that supply cheap or free books in either Amazon's own azw format or in a format that Amazon supports. These include Project Gutenberg (and freekindlebooks.org), archive.org and openlibrary. You may have the choice of dragging and dropping to the Kindle via a computer and USB connection (free), or have them emailed directly to the Kindle (not free).

The azw format is actually a very slightly modified version of mobi.

There's a huge amount of info on the Amazon site, suprisingly enough :}.

[Rossian]

...it's precisely that "huge amount" of infromation that we're having difficulty with. 'Frinstance I've no idea what mobi or prc are (far less DRM and its ramifications)

The Ancient Mariner

[Bushfiva]

formats for e-books, in the same way doc, docx, wp, rtf are formats of word processor documents and gif, jpg, tiff etc are image formats.

Rights management roughly means a purchased file can only be viewed on the device it was bought for: if you give the file to someone else, they won't be able to read it on their device. Free stuff almost never has rights management present, paid stuff usually does. A good comparison would be with music you create or download in mp3 format and music you buy through itunes.

You've got around 700,000 paid products directly available for Kindle, and around 2 million free ones directly or indirectly available. Plus you can convert many of your own files to Kindle format either on your PC or by piping them through Amazon for a fee.

[green granite]

Or in other words DRM is just another way of ripping the public off.

[bnt]

I used to ignore the Kindle partly for this reason, as well price and as PDF handling, but the new one appears to have solved those issues and is looking very interesting to me. I need PDFs to look correct out of the box, with no conversions possible; I have lots of books in PDF, EPUB and TXT formats, and I just want to attach it to the computer, dump the lot on there, and read it - and it looks like that's how it works now. My EPUBs will need conversion to something else, but that's not a deal-breaker, since I mostly created them myself (no DRM), and I have the tools for that (e.g. Calibre (http://calibre-ebook.com/)).

PS: MOBI and PRC, like EPUB, are compressed book formats. MOBI is associated with a company called Mobipocket who was acquired by Amazon; PRC comes from the old Palm Pilot, and EPUB is an attempt at an open standard. All can use DRM, but don't have to - it's up to the suppliers, not the formats. Amazon needs to start supporting EPUB - they have no good reason not to, just the fact that that's what their mortal enemy is supporting through Google Books (http://books.google.com/).

[mixture]

Rossian,

Kindle make of e-reader straps one ONLY to A big south American river , or can one download books from other sources?

Get yourself an Apple iPad, then you can use both Amazon's Kindle App as welll as other eBook readers. Plus have a more useful gadget to boot.

gg,

Or in other words DRM is just another way of ripping the public off.

Yawn. :ugh:

DRM is a way to ensure those who put hard work into producing a product get their reward.

Much like software license keys and associated mandatory activation process stops people "lending a copy to a friend".

[Rossian]

...a puff of with smoke will appear from the woodburner chimney dreckly. Thanks to all who replied.
Mixture, mon brave, with a PC, a laptop,and all the associated paraphenalia do I really need an expensive piece of apple kit? It may well be wonderful but a service pension only goes so far.
I think we can probably knock this one on the head now. Thanks again.

The Ancient Mariner

[P.Pilcher]

This is the trouble with "new" ways of doing certain things. If you buy a book, the printer gets paid for the paper and printing, the publisher gets his commission and the author gets the fee to which he is entitled. When you have read the book, you can then lend it to anybody else you like who can read it as well for no extra cost. Libraries do this ad infinitum. However now you expensively own a mechanism for reading the written word, it is impractical to lend it to someone else to read the same thing as you may well have other reading to do, but because of copyright, you are not allowed to loan them the file so they can read it themselves. Good business for publishers and authors who now get more than their just deserves - if the system catches on!

P.P.

[rgbrock1]

FYI.

The music downloaded/purchased from the iTunes store is not DRM'd. It is in m4p format which is Apple's own lossless codec. The m4p codec can be easily converted to mp3, should one choose, but none of the music from the iTunes store is DRM'd anymore.

[green granite]

DRM is a way to ensure those who put hard work into producing a product get their reward.

Only partly I'm afraid and I've no objection to that mixture, it also allows the publishers to manipulate the market as they did for years with music and videos, just ask yourself this, why are videos zoned.

Most people don't object to paying a reasonable price for something but do object to being ripped off because they live, say, in Europe and find people in India or China can buy the same product for half the amount.

[mixture]

Roissian,

Mixture, mon brave, with a PC, a laptop,and all the associated paraphenalia do I really need an expensive piece of apple kit? It may well be wonderful but a service pension only goes so far.

If you're going to write me a reply in such a tone, at least do your homework first.

Apple brought iTunes to Windows many moons ago. Therefore your argument is null and void because iPods, IPhones,iPads will all work on Windows. No need to buy one of their computers.

Willing to be proven wrong, but I doubt you will.

Admitteldly, if you are adamant that all you will ever want to do is read books, then a Kindle is probably as good as anything.

gg,

why are videos zoned.
and
find people in India or China can buy the same product for half the amount.

I don't work in the industry, or have any great knowledge of it. But I would suspect the answer to your question lies in the underlying commercials (in the businsess sense of the word, not referring to advertisments). More specifically probably a lot to do with the cost of production and distribution. They also might have their hands tied by legal issues such as royalty and copyright terms varying by geographic region.

Given that most things are produced in China these days, it should probably come as no surprise that things are cheaper in Asia. Add to that the size of the markets means that they can afford to experiment with pricing models.

I'm afraid I'm not convinced about the old chestnut that zoning and DRM is out to screw the consumer. I can see how it might be possible to percieve it to be that way...... just as it might be difficult to see why a lawyer who charges 190 per hour might be any better than one who charges 50.

[green granite]

from wiki:

The use of digital rights management is controversial. Proponents argue it is needed by copyright holders to prevent unauthorized duplication of their work, either to maintain artistic integrity or to ensure continued revenue streams. Some opponents, such as the Free Software Foundation (through its Defective By Design campaign), maintain that the use of the word "rights" is misleading and suggest that people instead use the term digital restrictions management. Their position is essentially that copyright holders are restricting the use of material in ways that are beyond the scope of existing copyright laws, and should not be covered by future laws. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, and other opponents, also consider DRM systems to be anti-competitive practices.

[Rossian]

....what did I say, mixture?
In the original post I thought it was apparent that it it is my wife who is pondering buying an e-reader. And on 9/10 hour flights, yes, she does just want to read books and this is a lighter way of carrying a fair few books rather than the traditional version.
All I said was that, at home, I already have a PC and a laptop and that I saw no need for anther expensive piece of kit.
It was originally just a simple question. I don't need admonitions about "doing my homework".
I'll leave it there.

The Ancient Mariner

[Metro man]

I can buy a new release by Frederick Forsythe in hardback or I can wait for the paperback version. Also I can go to my library which will have a certain number of copies, and put my name on the waiting list.

Now if it's available as an ebook from the library, why would I buy it when I can read it for nothing as soon as it's released even if it will expire after a certain period ?

His latest work, "The Cobra" is now available for download from the kindle store at Amazon.com for US$12. I can get it right now, without leaving the house, for less than half of what a bookshop will be charging when they get it in. What happens if it's available in libraries at the same time ? :confused:

[Bushfiva]

Rossian,

If you want to test out the Kindle experience without buying the hardware, you can install Kindle software reader on your PC and see if you like the browsing/buying/reading experience.

When flying, it is treated as an electronic device: generally, you need to turn the wireless function off before the door is closed (but people tend to keep this off anyway to prolong battery life).

[rgbrock1]

Hi.

I've been thinking of purchasing an Amazon Kindle (Wi-Fi only model) for the Mrs. as a birthday gift for her next month. Therefore, and for those who already own one, I was wondering what others think about the gadget.

All input welcome!

[P.Pilcher]

May I suggest that you look on the Amazon website for the books that are available in Kindle format for downloading. In my case, they didn't have a lot that I wanted to read so I considered the possible acquisition of a Kindle no longer.

P.P.

[rgbrock1]

Well actually p.pilcher I've download a lot of e-books to my iPod Touch. And buy all of them through Amazon. I have never had a problem purchasing a title I wanted to read.
Then again, your reading preferences may indeed be different than mine!

[P.Pilcher]

That is the point I was trying to make!

P.P.

[rgbrock1]

Ahhhh. Gotcha.

[Pontius Navigator]

I thought Amazon's advertising was duplicious.

They compared the cost of an Amazon Kindle book with the similar printed book at full price whereas Amazon sold the same printed book at a discount too. This made the kindle version much less of a bargain. Its big remaining advantage was of course instant download.

[Rossian]

...SWMBO went ahead and bought the Kindle (with the wifi bit) and is well pleased with it. She found it easy to log it into the network here and has successfully downloaded half a dozen books so far. She has used it whilst reading in bed and is now happy for me to put out the light on my side of the bed so that I can get to sleep. Hurrah!
She also couldn't believe the snippy tone of some of the p8sts above and asked "Is it like this all the time?"

The Ancient Mariner

[green granite]

There are quite a few lending libraries lending E-Books for free nowadays, but the Kindle apparently wont download them, the Sony PRS 650 does though. But then it's nearly £100 more. :(

[Genghis the Engineer]

I have a PRS-600, which I think is more or less the same as a PRS-650.

Super device, lasts about a week on a charge, easy to read, and will handle just about every eBook format except for Mobipocket (which is pretty much defunct now) or Kindle (which just means I don't buy my ebooks from a certain south American aquatic source). On long overseas trips, I can buy and download new books easily also, which is great when running out of reading matter in non English speaking countries (and saves a lot on baggage allowances).

Handles MSWord/RTF files very well, PDFs variable, and Adobe ePub fantastically well. With a standard SD card in the slot, holds about 200 books (or equivalent).

It works in a cockpit fairly well, although I've not yet tried loading approach plates and checklists onto it - an experiment to be had eventually. No RF/bluetooth/Wifi/etc. connection which is more help than hindrance in the air - you know it can't possibly try and interfere with anything - it charges and connects to your PC on a USB. Also not having its own Wifi/3G it can't have a mind of its own either - nobody controls it but me.

The PC software provided for moving books back and forth is absolutely horrible, but works, just.

My main whinge about it is the variability of pdf handling - some work really well, but scientific conference papers (which for my sins I have to read a lot of) with figures, graphs, diagrams in can often be a real struggle - and on one occasion it just crashed altogether at a really tough one.

Also useful for taking meeting notes, and fits in a jacket pocket very well.

For those who like such things, it's also an MP3 player, although I've never used it as such.

There are a lot of independent eBook retailers nowadays - although it pays to shop around since they aren't consistent in their pricing. You can usually get the latest bestsellers easily, and then a randomish spread of older stuff. Project Gutenberg is brilliant for a near-infinite selection of free out-of-copyright books.

If you just want something iPad-ish, without paying an obscene amount of money to Apple, go onto ebay and search on the phrase "Android Tablet" - you'll get a range of nice little devices, using a Google operating system, connecting as required via USB or Wifi, and lasting 3-4 hours on a charge, that work really well. You can download a free Kindle reader for those, and they'll take a mouse and keyboard via USB, which an iPad won't, and nor will any ebook device. However, the big disadvantage (to me) is the 3-4 hour battery life, versus the 7-10 day battery life of my Sony, and presumably the Kindle and other similar devices.

G

[IO540]

The Kindle, and especially the Kindle DX, is the best product out there as a book reader but is limited for aviation and most other use by not supporting directories ("folders" in windoze-speak).

This makes it very hard to browse large numbers of files e.g. PDFs of approach plates.

The Ipad does a much better job of this but has two issues: it cannot be dimmed sufficiently for night flight, and it suffers badly from reflections within the cockpit if flying in sunshine.

[anotherthing]

I thought Amazon's advertising was duplicious.

They compared the cost of an Amazon Kindle book with the similar printed book at full price whereas Amazon sold the same printed book at a discount...
Don't see anything underhand about that at all.. merely illustrates that Amazon is generally cheaper for both printed and electronic books than other retailers.

The Kindle books are by and large, on comparison, cheaper than other formats. The advertising seems fairly honest to me.