Starting a JAA IR rating course based on a ICAO PPL

[winguru]

Hey guys, let me ask you this.

Is it possible for a ICAO PPL, that has passed all JAA ATPL exams, has night rating attached to icao ppl, has 50 hours xc PIC, to ... start a Full 40 H JAA single instrument training and take the Skill Test.

Result: JAA IR SEP Rating wich cannot be attached to ICAO PPL licence.

Meaning that i would need either a JAA PPL or JAA CPL to attach it..


Main question: Woud it be possible to do the skill test no having a JAA PPL or JAA CPL to attach the rating.

Addition question: If this is possible, does the SEP rating of ICAO PPL needs to be current at the time JAA IR starts or either skill test day.

[Bealzebub]

Doesn't really make a lot of sense. the ICAO does not (and never has) issue licences. They are issued by individual states or supranational authorities in accordance with ICAO recommendations and practices.

There seems to be a marked reluctance in some quarters to mention the actual state of issue of a pilots licence. Portugal was a member of the JAA.

ICAO does not issue any licences. Licences issued by ICAO Contracting States on the basis of Standards and Recommended Practices of Annex 1 – Personnel Licensing, are habitually called ICAO licences. This has led many to believe that there is a specific ICAO or international licence. The fact is that there is not one single international licence issued by ICAO or any other organization. States issue their own licences based on national regulations in conformity with Annex 1 specifications and validate licences issued by other Contracting States on the basis of bilateral or multilateral agreements or the fulfilment of nationally legislated requirements.

The terms applicable by the relevant licensing authority would provide your answer. Whilst the experience requirements would normally be satisfied whatever licence they were acquired with, a rating cannot be attached to a licence not issued by that same authority.

[winguru]

So basicly, meeting all requirements, i can conduct training and finish it by a skills test, without needing to have a JAA ppl or cpl licence.

(its stated in jar-fcl that a icao ppl or cpl licence holder, can start)
Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.205
2 An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A), either licence to include the privileges to fly by night, issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.

I will need a ppl or cpl licence though, to have the IR rating attached to it later.
This because im icao ppl, and dont want to bother get jaa ppl before doing ir, and probably im taking the IR before CPL.

What is questioning me now its if that icao ppl needs to be valid, by the time of IR skilltest. Didnt find info, but i dont think so because will be flying Dual all the time.

[MagicTiger]

First what ICAO PPL license do you have?

Some can be directly converted paperwork with the CAA.

[winguru]

I have a icao private pilot single engine land with night,

CPL training won't be under UK CAA. And ICAO PPL won´t be validated either.

Would i need a Validation? ..... Dont think so
Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.205

2 An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A), either licence to include the privileges to fly by night, issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.

ICAO PPL sep rating expiring before skill test. Would i need the ICAO PPL revalidated before taking the CPL skill test?

[MagicTiger]

From what icao country?
I would think no, with limited info you have given. Caa UK will not issue rating privileges on a non has license. Example if going to the usa you have to convert your license to do faa training and rating. If it is icao and UK recognize the license they might convert it paper work, or give you the requirements to convert first. Each caa have more rules then given by icao.

[MagicTiger]

Another thing, training might be possible, but first you need to atpl theory, but you can not do a flight test ir in a UK airplane without a jaa license. Also ir can not be issued on to a non jaa licence. In flight test if you pass you are pic. Also atpl theory , cpl training and ir training must be done in same jaa country, with very few exceptions.

[winguru]

Provided that i have atpl theory, all requirements, do everything in the same country, even withouth having a validated JAA PPL, i think i could take the skills test.

I wouldnt be able to issue it because i dont have jaa licence to attach it, but the fact of taking the skill test, pass, and not submit it to CAA i think it would be plausible.


I was reading and there is people with JAA PPL, that did JAA IR first than JAA CPL, but didnt issue it, they waited to finish the CPL, so they would issue all in one time (less caa fees to pay)



But has you said when you pass a skill test you are PIC, that maybe a problem if i dont have a JAA licence, how could i log that hour as PIC.

[Bealzebub]

Winguru, I cannot understand why you are being so cryptic. It makes it difficult for anybody to assist you. If you have an FAA PPL just say so. If you have a South African PPL, say so. It is nothing to be ashamed of or secretive about. One thing you do not have is an ICAO PPL, because there is no such thing, (see extract given above from ICAO website.)

Conversion or validation terms between different countries licensing authorities, will depend on bilateral or multilateral agreements or the fulfilment of nationally legislated requirements.

So ultimetaly the answers you are seeking will depend on what you actually have, and what you are actually seeking. The licencing authority of the latter will be able to provide you with the definitive answer.

[winguru]

I can tell you my PPL its from Brazil, tailwheels and im very proud of it, less theory than JAA but the practise uncomparable, the aircraft and the place its though. :}

This is not for UK CAA.

The point is that i dont want to validate a PPL that is going to be expired at the time i take skill test for IR.

Im just trying to get more info from you guys, to know when after i take IR training ( wich i can, having a ICAO PPL), if i can take the skill test, withouth having a JAA licence. Im not issuing it.

So when i speak to CAA im very specific, has i know they wont be able to answer this straingforward, because in FCL is not stated anywhere, i spent alot of time looking, and doesnt say anything. :ugh:

thanks

[MagicTiger]

Of course you will not find an answer, sorry but it is a BS question.
Who does ATPL theory + IR training, cost you around £18.000, and NOT HAVING IT ISSUED?
IR is a rating, you need to have a valid license when you do the IR skill test.

First question you must ask yourself, what is you really want. You just want to train IR for fun, but without issuing a license? I am sure most FTO's would not mind taking your money to do that.
But skill test, you can't do. One of the criteria to do the IR skill test is to present a valid PPL or CPL license.