Retire Already

[Saturn]

If you have millions of dollars in the bank and/or a big pension, why are you still here? Why are you doing this to yourselves nevermind others? Is it really that tough to let go? Does this job really define you? Do you have to tell people you are a Cathay Pacific Captain?

Listen you have made your money let others move up and make theirs. We could have so much movement with everyone winning if we had a BUNCH of retirements. You guys are being greedy! How much is enough? Do you enjoy watching your colleagues suffer while you get richer and prevent people from moving up? I personally love the guys that got command after three years, have millions BUT WON'T RETIRE.

I tell you what, give me just a million and I'll leave so others can move up. If you really need to continue flying, there are plenty of contract jobs flying big and little planes, places that NEED pilot's can use your "expertise" while pilot's are promoted here. Please retire already!:ugh:

[Fly747]

It can't be a lot of fun flying with a 50yr old FO with such a chip on his shoulder!

[1200firm]

It's fairly simple;- The G.O./Oasis DEC types have NO life outside of this small pond. It would, quite literally, kill them to give it up.

[SeldomFixit]

Not to mention the Slasher's Arms closing down - where the hell can an old Oasis guy get a beer nowadays in the Chung ?

[sorvad]

The Oasis and Dragon chaps seem like mostly a good bunch to me...who knows...they may be still doing it cos they like it. Presumably the likes of Saturn and 1200firm will be getting out as soon as possible and wouldn't dream of going beyond 55...in any flying job..it must be grim to hate your job enough to have to publicly bemoan others who actually quite enjoy theirs.

[routetuner]

saturn- dee dums! not going your way as it always has? Grow up you ****. As for me well I'm just going to have to go to 65, reason is I like my job, unlike you, and the more your ilk spout then the longer we stay( and make more millions!).
Cheers Buddy!

[1200firm]

So I guess you are ex Oasis or Dragon then?. Or maybe ex-BA?
Or maybe you are the only F/O in CX with the above opinion?

[CodyBlade]

Mate, the meds is in the bathroom cabinet..

[sorvad]

1200firm....long time CX actually....and its people like you who make the flight deck a bit of a tiresome place to be sometimes... a lot of my mates and guys I fly with would share my views....besides, with such an introspective opinion you presumably would never have bothered to find out out what they do outside of work anyway

stay happy

[411A]

It can't be a lot of fun flying with a 50yr old FO with such a chip on his shoulder!Actually, it's quite easy.
It's called...gear up and shut up.
Works wonders.:E

[lostintransit]

411A, you seem to take a perverse pleasure in watching P2s suffer as their careers stagnate. You may find the tone of some co-pilots' posts displeasing but is it really necessary to luxuriate in their career angst?

[SloppyJoe]

As an SO with a LONG time to the chance of command I think we need to be worrying less about the guys who enjoy their job and chose to work to 65, I hope I still like my job enough to want to do it when I am that age. We need to worry about things like cadets joining with thousands of hours but still happy to come to HKG with no housing, we need to worry about the company having our freighters crewed by another company, we need to worry about the new FTLs, we need to worry about our pay increase, we need to worry about the new housing deal that was meant to be extended to 25 years.

I honestly don't care if someone wants to work to 65, if I love my job when I am 55 I would hate to have to leave as that is not old enough to retire. Individuals look after themselves and that is the way it should be, you and your family are the most important people in your lives. CX knows this and that is why there are so many scales, expat, local, based, international cadet etc. We are not united and bitch about how other pilots are effecting our lives, it is not the individual pilot that is effecting your life it is CX.

[Captain Dart]

Don't worry, Saturn, I'm not going to retire at 65; I reckon that retirement age will be 70 before the decade is out!

Got to keep up the payments on that warbird, don't you know.

[BusyB]

Sloppyjoe,
Very well said:ok:

[airplaneridesrfun]

when pilots over 55 were FO's, they had a quick progression to Captain. Now, lets look at why. Attrition! Now, why did that happen? Retirements at age 55! plus a little growth to help out. These guys were not complaining about age 55 then, but now they don't mind staying in the cockpit until they knock off. I've met a few with insight who extended past 55, but are now about to retire as they just wanted a few years more. Their reasoning is that they see too many of their friends dying and they want to relax a little. I'd say 60 is reasonable, but 65 is ridiculous. Personally, I am happy at 55 and am planning on it! Why on earth would I want to tie myself to Hong Kong any longer!!!

[Neptunus Rex]

The main reason for fast promotion years ago was not attrition, it was expansion. Sure, there was some attrition, but quite a few captains were extended (one year at a time) because of expansion. Plus the fact that there were no SO's (both existing types had FEs) and all the FOs were Direct Entry, mostly with 3,000+ hours and good jet experience.

[sorvad]

1200 firm

Also, even if I were, WTF would it matter if I was ex Oasis, Dragon, or Ba?....every one of us is ex somewhere

[main_dog]

SloppyJoe, that was a far too reasonable, honest, relaxed and far-sighted post.

In eight lines you never once managed to whinge about DEFOs, A-scalers, freighter captains, ex-Oasis/BA/KA guys or indeed any of your colleagues; you were only able to voice well thought-out, realistic and sharp-sighted concerns.

I put it to you that this is completely unacceptable, even embarrassing, and totally out of character for a CX pilot... are you sure you're one of us? :}:}:}

MD

[Saturn]

Some have made a very decent living here at CX and have the ability to retire comfortably. This is turn gives others the chance to progress in their careers as they themselves have done. The people that progress are then given the ability to have the chance to retire comfortably and move on and the cycle continues.

Now, if you are commuting form far and away to stay up in the midde of the night flying ultra long haul or crazy rosters as we have now, that just does not make any sense. You are shaving years off your life. I am aleady burned out. Do not get me wrong I love flying and like the guys I fly with but when I hear them talk about how rich they are it's just a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. Then when I hear about the ex wifes and problems, it gets to be a bit much. So we are all just here for ourselves then? You have yours and screw me and the rest of us? That's really nice!

Bash me all you want but, you should move on already if you can and give the rest of us a chance.

I'll say it again, how much is enough?

[geh065]

So we are all just here for ourselves then? You have yours and screw me and the rest of us? That's really nice!

Um...are you new here? We can't even vote for minor agreements which may give others a slight advantage over others, let alone ending our own careers to be nice to other crew by giving them a promotion slot! I get sick of listening to senior guys talk about their 2nd yachts but if they want to stay longer then so be it. My promotion might be delayed as a result but I too want the option of continuing when I reach 55. I may not choose to, but I want to make my own mind up about it.

[VR-HFX]

Saturn

Saw a French girl at age 33 got a Bus command at Etihad the other day after 3 years....50+3 =53.

Just trying to be helpful:ok:

[Capt Toss Parker]

It's easy to knock us guys on the new contract but one day you might be in our shoes ... with expenses such as

Divorce
Clapped Out Porsche
War Bird
Bi-Polar Medication bills
Rogaine
Salsa Lessons
Cupid & Adult Friend Finder Subscriptions
Dental Requirements
Bar Fines

Life is not always a box of chocolates kids .... watch and learn there's a lesson here for you young whipper snappers! :D

[Masta of Disasta]

The problem we have you geriatric "chaps" is 1. You're not very good at what you do 2. the only person you care about is yourself, the absolute majority are not members of the HKAOA, looking out for number 1 has been your only priority, with weak, if any excuses are offered. 3. You have been around during the golden age of aviation with money being thrown at you, but it's still not enough, now you have decided to return , offer yourself as cheap captains, and make a mockery of the seniority system you have relied upon in your career, just for a little bit more cream.

It's ok to come from BA(or an old CX) with a strong Union and a strong seniority system and abuse a weak Union and seniority system to get what you want, thats ok right. Well I'm so sorry that some of us are making your little pleasure cruises uncomfortable but at least we can hold our heads up high in the cockpit. If you don't like it Granpa take a hike - you are not welcome (back).

[sorvad]

MASTA

so even though every Airline in the world will be keeping its pilots till 65 you'll be gone at 55 will you?

[Capt Toss Parker]

But Masta ...

I'm socially inept outside of aviation, I have nothing to offer general society or my family. (Well they left me but that's another story).

Where would I go? Who would I work for?

The training system would crumble .... the beer in Japan would go warm ... the crew room would never be the same ... the simulator! it would seize up and die!

People need to hear how good I am on every sector, knowledge comes from listening to self appointed legends like myself, not from these young captains.

Exercise courtesy respect and manners around the founding fathers of aviation and you will go a long way.

[Masta of Disasta]

Ah actually not every airline as you would like us to believe. Germany has a mandatory retirement age for pilots of 60. What is an absolute disgrace is these ex BA and especially ex CX Grandpa's re- joining , undercutting everyone to become a direct cheap captain. They are lowering the bar for their very own selfish interests making an absolute mockery of the system they once relied upon as young pilots for career advancement. The amazing thing is now Granpa just really can't understand what all the fuss is about. Are you telling me that after 30plus years in aviation it's news to you that CX have also got a ladder to climb and you've just jumped the queue by offering to do it alot cheaper. Stop pretending to be my buddy on the flight deck, all you want is someone to drink with at the bar, otherwise you're just another sad old man standing alone who nobody quite wants.

[regentbl]

Some of us have missed the essential point. Whether you like it or not the management of the company employs us and we accept the conditions or go away. When I joined the position was as a F/O on the 747. Nothing else. Promotion comes along maybe but it's not in our hands.

[treboryelk]

Masta

i trust you have made your displeasure known to your employers....or are you just another pathetic whinger with no substance?

thought so!

[sorvad]

MASTA

I dont think anyone will be pretending to be your buddy on the flight deck

why on earth should a senior captain who has just been given the opportunity to spend another 10 years doing something he enjoys doing with all the professional and financial rewards that brings stand down to let a t@s$£r like you get your command and probably milk it till you're 65 while bemoaning him for doing the same thing...the fact that retirement in his contract when he joined might have been 55 is irrelevent...After all aren't we and the AOA constantly striving to improve the terms in our contracts for our own gain?...well this is an improvement for them, and if you begrudge these guys for taking advantage of a change in policy since they joined, then dont you dare make the most of any that may come your way while your here either..and also when you go at 55...which of course you wont..then dont go and take advantage of any other captain position that might sound like a nice retirement job any where else in the world..because that will piss off the junior bods there.

just wise up...this industry is supply and demand, and if you wanted that freighter command taken by Mr 'out on his ear Oasis Captain', then you should have applied for it at the time...they were there for the taking

as far as the CX rejoiners...my contemporaries and I were amongst those whose command courses went from imminent to way beyond the horizon...it happens, things change, and have done since the dawn of commercial aviation...get used to it, and the sooner you spit out those sour grapes, the sooner you wont be such a tiresome bore to your friends, family and colleagues.

[Captain Boers]

Oh dear, oh dear. Same old, same old. :D We all go banging on about seniority. Well those that are senior have the option of working to 65 to the apparent career detriment of those less senior. Nothing anyone says on this forum will change that fact so let's just get on with securing a decent CoS, payscale and quality of life.

Now to make Masta foam at the mouth.

I have been reading, with great interest, of progress in the operational capabilities of Predator. So it occurs to me that once I'm out to pasture the technology will be available to bring Mr O'Leary's wish to fruition and dispense with the second pilot by my acting as PM through telemetry from the comfort of my swinging chair in the balmy climes of my choice. That way I get paid beer money, get to live a life and ensure that Masta speaks to himself for the duration of his fourth ULR rotation for the month. Even better, I and my 'Grandpa friends' may even be the CN on the ground and delay his command for ever and ever.

Yes, Masta, you are not alone in wishing some people would just go away.

Back to the Coffee Shop - not long now before the final solution is imposed on poor AMS.

[A. Le Rhone]

Why don't you guys convert that energy directed against each other into united action for a common cause - collective improvement?

If I were a manager I would have a great laugh at these posts; you're all right where I would want you to be - bickering amongst each other like 5 year-olds. This makes my job easier and diverts attention for my hypocritical increased bonuses whilst I simultaneously work hard to reduce your terms and conditions.

I feel a comment from 'The Management' is due about now please.

[boxjockey]

It's true, what ever happened to 'The Management'? You guys need to direct your energy in a different direction. Maybe you should try a "spinning" class...:hmm:

box

[unfcknblvble]

Can't blame the old guys for staying on, it's the pretending they are not f@cking anyone over that gets me.

[Air Profit]

...if you don't like your career prospects, then go to another airline that offers better ones. You can get a command in 3 years at Etihad....slightly longer at Emirates. If you choose to stick around here, then I will assume that overall you are content. Your whining is an indication of a hypocrite.

[No-Wai]

It's at times like these that I like to pray to dear-lord-baby-Jesus:

"Dear 8lb, 2 Oz, dear-lord-baby-Jesus, with your tiny golden curls flowing down your cheeks, so small you can't even say a word yet... Oh dear-lord-baby-Jesus, when will thy 60y.o. A-scale tormenters return to wife #3 and warbird #2? When will my command upgrade come??"

And the good dear-lord-baby-Jesus answers:
"No worries mate - I'm gonna smite the 60 y.o. fvckers with a heart attack whilst they're porking a Thai hooker on their next 4 day integrated pattern, the bunch of cvnts!!"

And lo, so it is written, so it shall come to pass. (And the B-scalers did see that the cup of suffering was taken from their lips, just as dear-lord-baby-Jesus did when he was forced to sign COS08 at the garden of Gethsemane).
:E

[toolowtoofast]

Mate, the meds is in the bathroom cabinet..

just next to the plaque for the alternates :D

[Capt Toss Parker]

No No .... there TWO (S's) in TOSS :eek:

[iceman50]

Saturn and your "mates", you are talking out of the next outer planet in the system.:zzz:

[Bluestar51]

Toss,

When I was learning my trade on the Mighty Herc in SE Asia I never dreamed that I might be able to ride this train until I'm 65. Now it appers, that if all works out ok, I may get to go until I'm 70.:)

bs

[routetuner]

Bluestar I agree. 70 all the way. That's really going to upset saturn! Tough.

[boxjockey]

Ah, the generation of greed. You, fine chaps, are the reason the world is going to hell in a hand-basket. Enjoy yourselves!

box

[Neptunus Rex]

I cannot understand why CX is employing these superannuated sexagenarians, as they are surely more expensive to the company than promoting 'B' or 'C' Scale commanders.

Perhaps Management could explain?

[routetuner]

It's called EXPERIENCE and the management just love it!
Cheers!

[The Management]

There are many reasons but experience is not one of them. Most of them are industrial but we know the pilot group is very naïve/fearful of industrial matters.
For Us to be able to bring in Direct Entry Captains with a seniority number at the bottom of the list is only the tip of the iceberg. For the pilot group/AOA to accept this speaks volumes on your industrial fortitude.

You are all broken, fighting amongst yourselves and the new DE Captains have helped us facilitate this. We used them because of their greed and no concern for fellow pilots. It is not only those pilots that are self-serving but also the majority of the pilots on the seniority list.

We just keep targeting certain groups and all the other groups allow it to happen, as they adopt the “it doesn’t affect me” attitude. We have used this tactic since the early ninety’s and are quite successful.

All of you must realize that we broke the pilot group when we fired the 49ers and you will never recover, you will never unionize this pilot group. There are too many self-serving pilots in all base areas and don’t care what is happening in other base areas.

So to make yourself a career at The CPG, accept that we will continue to reduce your conditions and benefits and you fight to save what you have.

Trust me, experience is not one of them but if you like to think that by all means. BTW, that’s what we tell you, for you to do what you do and justify it. Some will still not believe it, but we use you and you don’t’ even realize it.

There is a reason that we make millions and the pilots are million dollar morons.

TO MY BONUS
The Management.

[crwjerk]

I hardly believe the Company's reason for hiring you to fly a freighter is " Experience". Second officers could apply for a freighter command a while back if they wanted, queue jumpers too, who didn't have the seniority or "experience".
Good on you for having it though. :D