Flights grounded in Virgin Blue 'chaos'

[Angle of Attack]

The delays seem to be getting a lot of coverage even though I understand its only around 50 flights?

[320subria]

Last count on their website is about 110 flights cancelled and I imagine the same number or more delayed. Prob looking at up to 15 000 pax from cancelled flights and at least the same delayed, considering they carry around 50k pax a day that is a pretty significant disruption, hence the media coverage. I am sure there will be some pretty colouful meetings happening at The Village over the next couple of days and if its an external supply problem, someone is going to get a nice bill for compensation!

[Mr. Hat]

Second rate system that you wouldn't find in Rwanda no doubt. Another Godfreyism. Buying the cheapest of everything always.

Time for the head of IT to pack his/her stuff up and leave. Its a disgrace.

Forget business travellers VB i you think you can pedal this sort of rubbish.

[ampclamp]

QF have had their computer issues in the past too but this at one VB is a killer.Awful timing for customers.
I feel for the frontline staff getting their heads chewed off all day.

[vorky]

Navitaire strikes again ... how the hell does a hardware failure constitute the entire booking system failing. I thought the system was supposed to have Disaster Recovery in Sydney, UK and France.

[Tiger01]

Systems have been out since 8am this morning and as of yet, still no fix.

[Mr. Hat]

Perhaps time to invest in equipment starting with an industrial size broom to sweep out all the incompetence before it shuts the whole company.

Destroying the publics confidence in the company by the minute.

[Jack Ranga]

In the words spoken to Ranga by Virgin gate staff when Ranga and Mrs Ranga missed a flight:

'Go upstairs and tell them your sob story'

No sympathy from me when you've got w@nkas like that representing you :cool:

Mrs Ranga has flown to the states 3 times since then (on higher fares than the 'Virgin Flair') I'll not fly on this airline while Virgin sanction speaking to customers like they are teenagers....like.

I'm guessing that a whole stack more people wont fly with them again.

Be interesting to see what 'compensation' is offered by this 'two bit' outfit?

[Gas Bags]

An article I read quoted VB as offering a full refund by way of credit for future flying and rebooking of current flights if delays longer than 4 hrs are experienced.

GB

[heffy_inc]

A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.

Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations.

I am working on finding out exactly what happened that caused such an outage, given that the DJ databases are replicated across three datacenters worldwide.

[domaus]

Jack Ranga

So sorry to hear of the way you got treated. I'm sure this isn't the way the majority of crew act yet I hope your were properly seen to and/or compensated. Unfortunately it seems more service training might be required for some crew.

As a flight attendant on airport reserve in Melbourne during the chaos, by choice I helped at check-in (answering questions, que-combing etc...) I did my very best for 4 hours and have to admit all the passengers bar one were fantastic with very understanding attitudes. Thanks everyone for your understanding!

Also I was told Jetstar have the same system and had the same problem yet was minimilised obviously due to Qantas' help in moving passengers. This true?

[Skynews]

I am interested in the IT perspective from "heffy inc", regardless of spin, some one in IT has not done their job well enough. simple as that.

If a pilot made an error of similar proportions, i.e. delayed flights had others cancelled, I suspect these same IT "guru's" along with HR would be burning them at the stake, no questions asked.

IT have screwed up and some one will be held accountable, and held accountable by the same bank Johny"s that share their four walls.

Not at all good enough and every one knows it.

If only you guys would take your own advise and have a clue before interfering with operational issues!

[Capt Claret]

Big call to say IT have screwed up.

Maybe they did. Or maybe farmer brown dug up a cable that should've stayed burried. :\

[SimonBl]

Gee, this took a while to rear its head here. Anyway, as I work (loosely nowadays) in the IT area, I have been interested to hear the back story here.

It was interesting to hear this morning that VB are blaming their booking system 'provider', Navitaire (a spin off from Accenture which, IIRC, used to have a close associate with Microsoft). I wouldn't think they'd do that lightly, without being sure that they were factually correct.

Anyway, redundancy (be it Data Centre, comms links, systems etc) comes at a cost. 99.999% (What is 99.999? - Definition from Whatis.com (http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/99999)) uptime comes at a cost too. So, yup, someone screwed up - but it still may be VB, if they decided that "she'll be right" and went for a lower spec'd system.

Time will tell and I, for one, will be watching with interest. I bet Navitaire will be checking with their lawyers too.

[Skynews]

Capt C,

surely even if farmer Brown's dog dug up a few cables there should be redundancy built in to ensure that unless the world came to an end VB could continue to operate?

One event should not create the havoc that this appears to have created.

[Checklist Charlie]

I really don't care about the blame game, however I would like to ask.......

What on earth happened to their Corporate Emergency Response Plan?

It would seem on the face of it that the CERP failed as well.

CC

[limelight]

Virgin computer crash vergin' on a disaster
Ben Sandilands writes:
COMPUTER GLITCHES, VIRGIN BLUE AUSTRALIA
How does Virgin Blue rate in the continuing, if gradually clearing, crisis computer crisis that started yesterday morning and wrecked travel plans right across Australia?

It seems to depend on which live-cross-to-air you watch. It can be "it’s not their fault", "they are trying their best" and "we’ll get there in the end", at one part of a terminal, and seething anger, such as "the web site is useless", "I’ve been told to ring back in an hour for six hours" and "the staff haven’t a clue" at another.

This is Australia’s worst ever airline reservations and check-in computer system failure. It is a taste of what happens in the US each winter, when a severe storm at ONE airport strands enough jets to cascade the delays countrywide.

The similarity is that it is an event over which airlines claim to have no control, although there may have been an early warning of this last Monday afternoon, when this reporter was among "many" others who had the Virgin Blue reservations system malfunction and lose the plot at the click-to-pay stage, something that took 75 minutes on the phone to fix.

Whether it’s snow or blank screens, anything that prevents flights from vacating the gates at a hub airport such as Sydney or Melbourne, never mind ALL Virgin Blue’s cities at once, is going to paralyse an airline. If flight’s can’t be dispatched, everything goes cactus.

Which is why today remains really bad for Virgin Blue flyers, because a large number of those who were on 116 flights known to have been cancelled yesterday are trying to get on to flights today, and Virgin Blue, like its competitors, is booked nearly full, so even if everything runs like clockwork today, not everyone who was stranded yesterday will find a seat immediately.

Virgin Blue is scoring well when it comes to promising compensation, at least on media reports. It is promising replacement flights for those unable to fly yesterday and today. It is picking up hotel and transfer costs and other expenses, with an allowance of $220 being quoted by some passengers.

However, the claim "form" on its website is totally vague. It doesn’t specify amounts, and sets the displaced with a need to scan or photocopy a range of receipts arising from the delays.

The form is weird in that it could save an awful lot of mucking around by just asking displaced passengers to enter their PNR code, which is a unique combination of six capital letters or numbers that appears on every reservation.

Which raises the terrible thought. If this crash by the external software used for bookings and check-ins has corrupted the passenger identifier codes, Virgin Blue is in really diabolical trouble. No, make that Accenture, the parent company for the Navitaire computer system, which is about to be sent to hell.

While Virgin Blue may get high marks for stepping up quickly to compensate the displaced, it can be argued it is very aware of the situation in the US and EU and UK, where fierce legal penalties are now enforced on airlines in similar situations because of their past resistance to compensating passengers for cancelled or severely disrupted flights.

No Australian airline would want to cause similar laws to be enacted here.

Don’t be misled either by reports of a total of 116 flights being cancelled yesterday, or the 13 that were listed as cancelled today. All flights, cancelled or not, are impacted by these delays. Check your flight status on the Virgin Blue web site, and keep all flight and delay-related receipts.

[Cookie7]

Just curious, but why is the failure only limited to the east coast?

As previously mentioned here, surely there is a need for redundancies in the network and/or there is currently redundancies within it due to the failure not being nationwide?

[Cactusjack]

Couple of factors here:

Second rate system that you wouldn't find in Rwanda no doubt. Another Godfreyism. Buying the cheapest of everything always.


Very true for starters. However when this crap system crapped out, the bigger issue was to continue services with as minimal delay as possible. In recent years VB has cut back on staff training, particular the manual check-in process because 'very rarely does the entire system fall over'. So they cut out a few days of solid training and recurrence training for staff and this is what you get, an exasperated problem if and when the whole system collapses.
If you want to hang anybody I would target the Head Of Ground Operations scalp for starters.

[Jack Ranga]

dom,

I made a complaint about this clowns behaviour. I received an e-mail saying that action would be taken if it's warranted. I asked what action was taken in the end and the e-mail stated that it was against this person's privacy to reveal what action, if any, was taken :ugh:

That did it for me and Virgin. I find the Virgin 'experience' juvenile and immature. I feel for sensible people in your organisation who understand what service is all about and behave accordingly. You are given a bad reputation by probably a minority who behave like d!ckheads.

Outside of the terminal this idiot would have copped a smack in the mouth for the way he spoke to my partner.

[vorky]

News crews were out the front of 'The Village' this arvo, looks like the COO (Andrew David) is facing up to the press.

[lurker999]

Accenture would be looking carefully at their contract, because an outage of that length could be terminally expensive.

the damages will be colossal.

[markontop]

Virgin can no more blame "a third party" for it's woes anymore than BP can. If you pay peanuts etc.

[KittyBlue]

totally agree that you get what you pay for.... alas not enough flair can fix this immediately!

[Jabawocky]

Is it fixed yet?

[lurker999]

"MEREDITH GRIFFITHS: The Senior Editor of Air Transport World, Geoffrey Thomas, says only a few airlines have better back up systems than Virgin."
:eek:

was a H/W failure. that does seem unusually careless for a h/w failure to take a day to fix. no point having triple redundant DBs if there is a single point of failure elsewhere in the chain, esp the h/w.:ugh:

[Mr. Hat]

Getting Facts Right...
A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.

Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations.

While we're on the topic of facts...

Here are some - VB staff are tired of:

- 2-5 emails just about everyday of the year about IT outages.
- Having to install software/printers at every computer they use across the entire network each time they log in.
- Citrix rubbish freezing every single time you log on and requiring 15 attempts before it works.
- Having to employ various remedies/fixes to get computers to work so you can then actually do your job.
- Having to pull printers apart every single day.
- Every third delay being due to a New Skies passenger incorrect seat allocation and having to do manual load sheet changes.
- Passwords and logins for every second page they view.
- Ringing up IT to ask for a fix and getting told "can't be done unless you lodge a ticket". Are you even remotely familiar with how much material crews have to cover in a 30 minute sign on? Great idea lets lodge a ticket. Jesus.
- Emails from IT about staff blocking up the system (YOU are blocking the system with YOUR emails about outages not US, YOU)


and last but not least ...

-MOPPING UP THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MESS WHEN 116 FLIGHTS GET CANCELLED!

Wake up buddy there's a few people on here that do have an idea of what dealing with IT systems at VB is like. You are here because of us not the other way around. More importantly WE are here because of the 60000 people sitting on the floor at various airports that pay our wages. This mess has caused untold damage to the trust in the company at the most critical of times. Some of us take pride in our work, take pride in an on time departure and a happy customer. Some of us feel genuine empathy for the family of 5 sitting on the floor in Sydney Airport. This isn't just another job to buy the latest gadget from PC magazine.

And before we blame the poor equipment provided by the company don't forget that everybody gets the same - pit crew to pilots. Ask the Ejet Captain/FO that deals with the multiple failures and gets the airplane safely on the ground every single time.

Get "intimately familiar" with that. Go get a "clue" what you are on about before you start sprouting on here fella.

Full service Airline? Full service equipment, systems, culture and new management.

Keep sweeping John.

[ozbiggles]

He will be sweeping faster than a Olympic curler one would suspect

[Capt Claret]

Mr Hat do you mean that Virgin has a NITS Dept too?

(NITS - No I.T. Support). :E

[peuce]

Virgin can no more blame "a third party" for it's woes anymore than BP can. If you pay peanuts etc.

I do not agree ... a contract is a contract, no matter how much you screw the price down.

Just ask any VB passenger, who has paid $5 for a ticket, if they expect a safe, efficient, on-time flight .... same thing.

I've been caught in business before ... mistakingly thinking that just because a Client screwed my price down, he would accept an inferior product ... wrong ... both ethically and legally!

[Capt Claret]

In all seriousness, as a group we get narked when people jump to conclusions about various aircraft related incidents, particularly when the critics aren't in possession of all the facts, nor do they wait for the result of an investigation.

There'll surely be an investigation into this, and it could just be, that despite every one's best endeavours something unthought of occurred. Or, it could just be a stuff up. But surely we should wait for the investigation results before we start crucifying this company, or that, or hurling grenades at people. :8

[hoss58]

Same sage advice Capt Claret in the heat of battle.

Many quetions to be asked and answered when the dust has settled.

Fly safe and play hard

Regards to all

Hoss58

[ozangel]

I'd tend to think that the reason 'manual check-in' failed is because the procedure was designed way back in the early days - when connecting flights were 'rare' or virtually 'non-existent'. As the company has grown, many of its back up plans have become obsolete.

This is a clear indicator that the company has not grown in proportion to its market share.

Manual check-in works well when it's point to point - but markedly less so when connecting flights are involved.

This seems to be a latent failure on the part of Virgin Blue - regardless of who provides its soft or hard ware.

Every pilot, engineer, and flight attendant out there should take this as a solid reminder - if anything goes wrong, the company will do its best to pass the blame.

[Jetro6UL]

I do not agree ... a contract is a contract, no matter how much you screw the price down.

Just ask any VB passenger, who has paid $5 for a ticket, if they expect a safe, efficient, on-time flight .... same thing.

I've been caught in business before ... mistakingly thinking that just because a Client screwed my price down, he would accept an inferior product ... wrong ... both ethically and legally!


lol, you can't actually expect to get to your destination if you only pay $5 for your ticket.

For that price the best you can hope for is a free explosives swab at the x-ray machine :).

[positivegee]

Mr Hat, Bravo, Bravo, well said.
Not enough of the "support" staff are aware (or care) of the effort flight crew, ground crew and ops staff put in to get the airline to run safely on schedule.

There seems to be a constant battle with the IT systems we have to work with to get our briefings and do our fuel planning...and then waiting for the load sheet...

I'm not surprised the IT system fails for check-in, I am used to it failing for flight planning!

+G

[teresa green]

Whats with this 'guests" stuff, when did PAX become guests? And why not wet lease from either JQ or QF? Don't they do that any more in times like this?

[vorky]

Mr Hat, Bravo, Bravo, well said.
Not enough of the "support" staff are aware (or care) of the effort flight crew, ground crew and ops staff put in to get the airline to run safely on schedule.

There seems to be a constant battle with the IT systems we have to work with to get our briefings and do our fuel planning...and then waiting for the load sheet...

I'm not surprised the IT system fails for check-in, I am used to it failing for flight planning!

+G


When you say "not enough" ... I gather you're referring to the outsourced support staff. Yep, that isn't going to change, they support 18 other companies aside from DJ - so caring for the flight crew, cabin crew, etc. isn't high on the list of priorities.

Outsourcing for the win eh ... :rolleyes:

[Grey Nomad]

Yeah I disagree. The term "guest" works when you stay at an iconic hotel like perhaps " Raffles " or the " Waldorf " or entertaining a guest in your own home. Not a low cost airline. When you have commentators bagging the term on the radio its time for a rethink.Virgin really needs to drop most of the baggage (and terms like those) from the Godfrey era and grow up.:ugh:

[MyerFlyer]

The system crashed again this morning at 5:00am, it was fixed soon after only resulting in a "few" delays.

[walaper]

teresa green why would they want to lease any more A/C ? The aprons were full of A/C they just couldn't get the right pax on the right one:)

[ANCDU]

Had friends down for the grand final who were "guests" of VB and affected by the IT problems.It was interesting hearing their perspective compared to the usual media spin.

They are long time VB travellers and use them for buisness as well as lesuire travel after QF basically gave them no option than fly J* from their home town, but thats another story.

What did they think? Very well handled at the start but after 3 hours of waiting things got out of control, with most people way out of their depth. A huge lack of information, and as they said its nice to have attractive young things serving you, but when they have no training or support in this type of situation it looks very amatuer. Lots of staff on the ground apologising, but none were really of any help. They were actually told by one of the staff that it is affecting ALL airlines, so dont bother trying the "others".

Oh, and they also made an interesting observation in regard to the "guest" thing. Apparently a lot of passengers got annoyed at being constantly reffered to as being "guests", it actually became an ongoing joke in their que. Most wanted to be treated like paying "customers"!

They still like VB compared to their other option and are excited about the new buisness offerring and like most people there understood that sometimes these things happen, it was obviously a huge problem that doesn't happen everyday.

My observations from what they told me, give your ground staff a bit more confidence in dealing with this type of situation, and give them a pat on the back for trying, i would have hated to be in their situation.

[Cactusjack]

Il Deuce has returned from the Singapore Grand Prix and not happy about the throngs of media waiting outside his Village. He has been noticeably cranky !
Perhaps he can harness that anger and invest in a new computer system as well as punt some of the senior Ground Operations so-called managers that should be held accountable for once (something that never occurred under Brett's rulership). Either that or allow his airline to continue losing any of it's remaining reputation as a service provider. The Australian Government is shopping around for competitive business end providers and this doesn't assist VB's cause if they can't even check-in all those eager Pollies who are in a rush to attend the next 'high tea' or corporate event interstate !

[ANCDU]

No wonder Il Deuce is cranky, just heard further reports of further delays and angry passengers this morning. Any truth to the media reports? (or is that what you call an oxymoron???)

[Worrals in the wilds]

At VB, staff are required to refer to passengers as "guests". They have done this since they started really. Its quite a nice gesture I think although I'm sure many will disagree.

Traditionally a guest doesn't pay. If I am your guest I turn up and you entertain and feed me for free. In return I take what I get graciously, try to be a good guest and refrain from complaining about your cooking. The only time I am the guest of an airline is if they're providing free tickets, otherwise I am a customer.

It's obviously popular with a lot of people, but I personally hate it. I think it's trite, try hard and actually demeans the pax, because a guest is supposed to put up with crap out of politeness and a customer isn't.

That said, all the CS skills in the world wouldn't have made this mess go away. IME The only 'communication' delayed pax want to hear is 'Your aircraft is ready now'. Anything else is nice and good airline PR, but doesn't actually make people feel much better.

[Mr. Hat]

so caring for the flight crew, cabin crew, etc. isn't high on the list of priorities.

Its this type of cheeky attitude that the company doesn't need. Anyone got a broom?

Flight/Cabin/Ground crew don't want to be 'cared' for we just want the tools to do the job and some assistance when your Windows rubbish freezes.

Don't forget in the beginning there was an Airplane and a Pilot. Gradually everything else got added as the industry grew. I.T. was one of the late joiners. You are here to assist US not the other way bud! Time to remove rather than add obstacles so we can go and fly our guest/pax/customers etc and earn your salary for you.

In the meantime its day 3 of I.T. issues destroying the company and any good reputation it had.

[KittyBlue]

Guest for DJ was used to as a comparison to QF and Customer and passenger.

[Cactusjack]

'Guests' was a term that was an interesting concept in DJ's early days. SRB would preach about the evil duopoly of QF/AN and how they financially raped the fare paying public etc etc, so by using the term 'guest' it showed that DJ was more than an airline, it was about the people, for the people and that it was 'all about the people'.
Yeah, sure, what a load of shyte. So anyway, here we are 10 years later, and the 'highly valued guests' are taking a huge shot up the kyber due to shyte I.T systems and particularly shyte management decisions. Silly JB has put his broom away much too early I think.
Hilarious watching Andrew David fumbling through media interviews and naturally blaming everyone else, the media spokeswoman didn't do much better and the rest of the deadbeat management hiding under the furniture while the crinkly old SRB comes out dribbling apologies for an airline he has predominately been seperated from for eons !! Not to mention the Brisbane airport manager angrily pushing away the channel 9 camera's. Now that is not a display of fun or flair, is this accepatable behaviour by a so-called manager ? A role model for other staff ? The action of a Virgin Blue ambassador ? Hardly.What a circus run by monkeys.

I wonder if this means that Il Deuce will miss his OTP bonus for this month ? Maybe its DJ's 'september to remember' and not Jetstar's ??

[lurker999]

"All of us at Qantas are hard at work to make your journey more enjoyable than ever.

During 2009/2010 we had our best on-time performance in 15 years for both departures and arrivals, and our best international result for nine years. We are maintaining that industry-leading punctuality this year. "

these are the first lines of an email from QF i got this morning signed by Joyce.


I find it difficult to believe that the timing is not deliberate.

[ROH111]

Well Lurker999, is Joyce lying?

[lurker999]

no idea.

but from an SLF POV i'd like to see some fleet updates. everytime i get on a 767 it appears older than me and less reliable.

also i made no comment on whether it was good or bad. and yes, i'd have done it too in Joyce's position:ok:

[rmcdonal]

but from an SLF POV i'd like to see some fleet updates. everytime i get on a 767 it appears older than me and less reliable.
Come on 787s!

[standard unit]

Come on 787s!

To jetstar :}

[Bo777]

More like Onestar Asia :uhoh:

[heffy_inc]

Mr. Hat (http://www.pprune.org/members/62975-mr-hat)
Facts - smoke equals fire.


Getting Facts Right...
A few facts here... The Virgin Blue GDS (NewSkies) is a hosted system - it is run by Navitaire NOT the airline. The same system that Jetstar uses. Tiger uses the older version (OpenSkies). Qantas and V Australia also use a GDS that is hosted by a third-party (Amadeus Altea). As do most major airlines around the world.

Before everyone starts squawking about heads-rolling, etc. Have a f*cking clue what your on about. I don't work for the airline, but I do work in IT and am intimately familiar with their IT operations. While we're on the topic of facts...

Here are some - VB staff are tired of:

- 2-5 emails just about everyday of the year about IT outages.
- Having to install software/printers at every computer they use across the entire network each time they log in.
- Citrix rubbish freezing every single time you log on and requiring 15 attempts before it works.
- Having to employ various remedies/fixes to get computers to work so you can then actually do your job.
- Having to pull printers apart every single day.
- Every third delay being due to a New Skies passenger incorrect seat allocation and having to do manual load sheet changes.
- Passwords and logins for every second page they view.
- Ringing up IT to ask for a fix and getting told "can't be done unless you lodge a ticket". Are you even remotely familiar with how much material crews have to cover in a 30 minute sign on? Great idea lets lodge a ticket. Jesus.
- Emails from IT about staff blocking up the system (YOU are blocking the system with YOUR emails about outages not US, YOU)


and last but not least ...

-MOPPING UP THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MESS WHEN 116 FLIGHTS GET CANCELLED!

Wake up buddy there's a few people on here that do have an idea of what dealing with IT systems at VB is like. You are here because of us not the other way around. More importantly WE are here because of the 60000 people sitting on the floor at various airports that pay our wages. This mess has caused untold damage to the trust in the company at the most critical of times. Some of us take pride in our work, take pride in an on time departure and a happy customer. Some of us feel genuine empathy for the family of 5 sitting on the floor in Sydney Airport. This isn't just another job to buy the latest gadget from PC magazine.

And before we blame the poor equipment provided by the company don't forget that everybody gets the same - pit crew to pilots. Ask the Ejet Captain/FO that deals with the multiple failures and gets the airplane safely on the ground every single time.

Get "intimately familiar" with that. Go get a "clue" what you are on about before you start sprouting on here fella.

Full service Airline? Full service equipment, systems, culture and new management.

Keep sweeping John.
Last edited by Mr. Hat : 28th September 2010 at 10:14.

"Buddy" how about you "Go get a "clue" what you are on about before you start sprouting on here fella"?

I never said I was involved in IT at Virgin Blue OR one of their service providers... I like you am intimately familiar with their systems - because I used them all day every day! You've made a lot of big assumptions in your "reply". :D I didn't attacked any individual, but you sure have.

Maybe you should find out who your attacking first?

I was at Virgin Blue for a number of years - in a role that had nothing to do with IT. I *do* know what it's like cleaning up after the system goes down. I've been there for 16 hour days, manual L&T sheets - the whole lot. I know very well what getting screamed at by thousands of stranded passengers feels like.

I was in IT for the better part of a decade, then I took a few years out to work at Virgin Blue, and am now back in the IT industry (AGAIN - in NO way involved with DJ's IT, directly or indirectly).

All I was pointing out is that, like *almost* every other airline around the world they outsource their GDS, Departure Control, etc. systems. Don't start beheading people who chose one system or the other before the root cause behind the catastrophic outage is known - QF's systems have had their fair share of issues in recent history too.

I don't think upgrading from OpenSkies to NewSkies was a good idea - Amadeus Altea would have been much better; especially since VAus already uses it. As for the other issues RE printer mappings, multiple logon's, the homebrew crew briefing and L&T systems, etc. - I never liked the way it was being done. There are many ways to fix most of the things you've outlined. Many of the people involved in selecting those systems have moved on. Some left before JB, and many since - and I say good riddance. This is their legacy.

As for the personal attack - please edit your post to be about facts, not emotion. A public apology would also be appreciated.

[rmcdonal]

Delays after Qantas check-in system crash

Posted 15 minutes ago

* Map: Sydney 2000

The Qantas baggage check-in system at Sydney Airport has crashed this morning.

Qantas says the system is now back up and running and attendants are working through a back log of passengers.

But the ABC has received reports from passengers at the airport that Qantas is still doing manual check-ins and that hundreds of passengers are affected.
Delays after Qantas check-in system crash - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/01/3026905.htm)

[SimonBl]

Re QF Sydney baggage system, it wasn't only Sydney - it took me over an hour to bag drop yesterday in Brisbane after self check-in, and had to walk bags to an alternate load point. **** happens.

[Kangaroo Court]

...but it shouldn't. We're starting to look like a 1980s version of America's Amtrak. In this day and age, we either find alternatives and people go out of business or competition comes in and finds a better way.

If all the business travel stayed home, video conferenced and e-mailed for a month, the entire industry would be in pain for years! If we keep screwing this up, it may just come to that.

[lurker999]

Virgin shuts down computer check-in services
October 3, 2010 - 3:14PM
Virgin Blue's web and kiosk check-in services will be suspended between Tuesday and Thursday this week while the company fixes its computer problems.

And chief executive John Borghetti said the airline's online and telephone reservation services will be unavailable from 9pm (AEDT) on Tuesday until Wednesday.

Web check-in, Kiosk check-in and Check-mate will be closed from 8pm (AEDT) on Tuesday until 5am (AEDT) on Thursday.

Virgin shuts down computer check-in services (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/virgin-shuts-down-computer-checkin-services-20101003-162go.html)


i'd be actively changing IT providers at the point.

[Capt Kremin]

Maybe they are?....

[heffy_inc]

From what I understand, they will be cutting back over from the "redundant" backup servers to the primary servers.

I would suggest that NewSkies will be dropped as soon as JB can get it done, but they won't be able to make that change for quite a while - they will have to re-work quite a large number of internal systems that interface with the GDS, and that took quite a while for the OpenSkies -> NewSkies migration.

[vorky]

i'd be actively changing IT providers at the point.

Not necessarily, it's the window offered to cut in the fixed production SAN. They have been running on backup since Monday morning when the show finally hit the road again. You may have also noticed their sale related activity has been quite lax over the last week to ensure low loads on the back up system.

Edit: Beaten.

[Mach2point7]

I am not an IT guy, so perhaps someone a little more informed can fill in the gaps.

If the backup system was meant to be operational within three hours, why does VB need to allow (well in advance and in a non emergency situation) over 24 hours to switch from the backup system to the primary system ? Sounds a touch shambolic.

[lurker999]

I was

and from a little research it would appear New Skies in an unmitigated disaster. and that the Virgin Blue SNAFU wasn't the first one. Ryannair also suffered badly previously.

this summary from the register on the VB outage.

The Navitaire cock-up, filleted ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/30/navitaire_cock_up/)

"It is becoming more and more obvious that Navitaire's business continuance and disaster recovery provisions failed completely in this outage. There should have been standby systems ready to take on the load of any failed system or system component, but there weren't any. That is a blunder of the first magnitude by whoever designed, implemented and ran the system"

I can't see this continuing to be VB's system of choice much longer. or anyones really. can't have mission critical systems going off for hrs at a time. Ryan lost their system for at least 6 hrs form 10.45am on 20 Sept

[FlexibleResponse]

Perhaps Navitaire (like Virgin) also outsourced a mission critical system, namely their continuance and disaster recovery provisions?

[chuboy]

I am not an IT guy, so perhaps someone a little more informed can fill in the gaps.

If the backup system was meant to be operational within three hours, why does VB need to allow (well in advance and in a non emergency situation) over 24 hours to switch from the backup system to the primary system ? I suspect it was because they had to, not because they wanted to! From what I have read the backups were supposed to come online ASAP but VB still had to wait, which added insult to injury.

In time they ought to receive compensation for the money they had to spend and I'm sure there are clauses in their contract which will allow them to tear it into pieces :ok: