How time flies by - F4 Crash, Abingdon 88

[Neil Porter]

Was reminded yesterday (23rd Sept) that twenty two years ago (thanks 'old duffer' below for putting me right on the number of years :) ), Phantom XV428 from 228 OCU crashed at Abingdon whilst practicing its routine for the annual BofB airshow.. unfortunetly killing its crew F/L Lackman & F/L Thompson.

Just shows how time flies by fast these days.

[Old-Duffer]

........... 22 years ago!

[Geehovah]

Thanks for the reminder.

RIP chaps

[Finningley Boy]

I saw Chris Lackman and Jack Thompson display the week before at Finningley. I also recall (in light of the Abingdon incident) an article appearing in some journal somewhere by someone claiming that the display at Finningley was flown dangerously low resulting in a fierce reply from the Finningley Station Commander, Group Captain Pitchfork, who made it clear the aircraft never breached minimums throughout the sequence. A figure of 300' as the minimum (flown on this occasion) during the display, was given. I also remember reading in air clues a couple of years prior, that the actual minimum separation distance for display flying by such aircraft was, at the time, actually 250' Did the enquiry exonerate the crew, I seem to recall it did?

FB

[JagRigger]

I was under the car in the motor club at the time. I'd popped out to watch the Dutch F-16 practicing before the Phantom.

Back under the car, and I heard a boom - look out thinking the Dutch idiots gone supersonic, only to see the fireball .... only found out it was the Phantom later.

If you ever saw the accident report, there was a picture of the impact point on the grass - almost a perfect imprint, apart from fwd of the intakes, where I guess he'd got the nose up.

A real tragedy.

[f4aviation]

Interestingly there's a similar thread on Fighter Control...

FighterControl • Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast • View topic - LOW LOW F4 (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18797)

[Geehovah]

Yes but there's a big difference between a low flypast and bottoming out during a vertical display sequence. The picture in the link is a fly by.

[Ali Qadoo]

Remember watching their display practice at Chiv and after yet another rolling manoeuvre starting with the nose well below the horizon the staff junta's verdict was “Chuffin' gamey, that. Going to end in tears.” Not pleasant being proved right.

[wiggy]

As Geehovah has said: RIP chaps, it was nothing to do with any rolling manoeuver, they failed to get round the bottom of a loop.

I'd left the F4 when the accident happened but knew Chris well and had met Jack a few times. Any further comment is best left to the official report, here:

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B51B5979-9D69-43AE-9D91-2B6A762E5E3D/0/maas88_13_phantom_xv428_23sept88.pdf

[JEM60]

I was reading a friend's tabloid paper the next day. It had a picture of the 'crashing aircraft' in it's last few seconds. It was nose high, at about 300 feet, a side on shot. Only trouble was, it was an F.16...............Sad loss.

[Occasional Aviator]

I remember vividly watching the crash. I was in one of the UASs based there and a group of us were watching the practices. As the F-4 started its practice, there were some ribald comments about how they were going to have trouble matching the F-16 that had been on just before - followed by some banter as the jet appeared to 'push' at the top of the loop to gain height... all silenced immediately when the jet flew into the ground, the fireball silent until the crump of the impact reached us at our distance.

I learnt something about flying that day - I never knew the guys concerned and won't speculate what was going on - but we were reminded that this isn't just a game.

Later, the (engineer) stn cdr decided (too late) to close the bar - as young students, we felt a certain kudos showing Tomcat crews, still in their flying suits around the fleshpots of Oxford....

[sprucemoose]

I was a boarder at Abingdon School at the time and saw this accident from my dormitory window. It was very evident from the ground that the aircraft wasn't going to complete the manoeuvre, and I remember just feeling disbelief that two parachutes didn't appear after the plane disappeared from my view. Awful day. RIP chaps.

[Jazzyg]

I was there on the day, alongside the runway carrying out a FOD sweep and checking barriers for the following day. I recall looking up whilst the aircraft was at the top of the loop, then hearing the exceedingly loud engines and impact not far from my work party....the heat from the flash felt from a not too far away and the bits of wreckage bouncing around. An awful memory and such a waste of two lives. Then the interviews in the station gym to give witness testomonies and contact details for further interviews. In dire need of a drink but the bar closed and we were gated. Luckily, I knew the pub was just over the crash gate near Officers MQs so nipped off for a swift brandy!

RIP gents!

[Neil Porter]

There seemed to be a few incidents that day... the S3 Viking running of the end of the main runway ending up on barrow road, and i seem to recollect a Hunter dipping its wing alarmingly low before overshooting from the opposite direction(?) - i guess with that because of the gusty wind.

My mother knows F/L Lackmans wife still, and we know his son.

I have thought about asking the now Dalton barracks (don't confuse with Abingdon airfield!!) to see if we can install some kind of small plaque or something as a memorial.. We can incorporate this if it seems fit to do so around our annual Airshow weekend in May.. thought it maybe a nice touch as a mark of respect. Or even a Phantom tail fin (if one can be located) with a plaque on.. whats peoples views.

[NickB]

Funnily enough I was driving past Abingdon last Thursday (23rd) on my way into Oxford and was thinking about the F4 crash without knowing it was 22 years to the day since it happened.

Did it actually crash on the airfield?

RIP guys

[ShyTorque]

I too watched the F-4 practice at Finningley the week before and was worried by what I saw during a loop. The pilot definitely appeared to push the nose up whilst inverted, without gaining height, or perhaps even descending a little. As the aircraft bottomed out, pulling a lot of G, it began wing rocking. I never flew the type but did know that this was a pre-emptor of the type departing from controlled flight.

I was very sad to hear the outcome of the BOI. :(

[Old-Duffer]

NickB,

Yes it did crash on the airfield, leaving a recognisable 'footprint' at the point of impact.

O-D

[BEagle]

If you look at 51°41’33.78”N 001°18’39.76”W on Google Earth, the mark is still there...:sad:

I saw the display elsewhere and also thought it looked...rather 'gamey'.

[NickB]

Thanks 'Beags'.

Rather a depressing legacy. :sad:

[bobward]

Excuse a potentially stupid question from a civvy PPL here.

Wouldn't the display sequence have had to be seen an authorised by a senior officer, before any public shows? Have we any 1980's display members atound who could confirm this?

thanks

[ShyTorque]

Have we any 1980's display members atound who could confirm this?

I was a 1980s RAF display pilot and yes, you are correct; the procedure was for displays to be authorised initially by the squadron commander, the station commander, then the Air Officer Commanding (AOC). However, the authorising officer was not in the aircraft on the day.... if you get my meaning.

[NickB]

My understanding is that all displays have to be authorised (rubber stamped) before the start of the display season to ensure they are fit for purpose, but more importantly safe for the crew & spectators. However, accidents will still happen.

There was a case in 1983 when an impromtu Lightning display was not authorised, but very sadly the pilot concerned paid the ultimate price when the display went wrong. On this occasion, the pilot concerned was the Lightning display pilot for the season and a very good one (in subjective opinion), however I digress...

[NickB]

I doth my cap to ShyTorque's greater knowledge!!! :O

[Gainesy]

A memorial would be nice Neil, but a fin sticking out of the ground might not be the best choice in this case.

[Neil Porter]

Gainsey wrote "A memorial would be nice Neil, but a fin sticking out of the ground might not be the best choice in this case. "

Point taken Gainsey... i can see where you are coming from

Just thought also almost a year later a 14sq Tornado hit a flock of birds whilst departing mid evening en route back to Bruggen 2 days prior to the 89 show, with the crew steering the stricken jet away from houses with the jet crashing in oday hill, think the navigator banged out near the tescos otherside of the A34 & pilot sticking with it a little longer..
I was program packing in E hangar when we heard it taking off and then the alarms going off & a case of "oh no not again".. sorry for the thread divert.

[ULASflyer]

I was in ULAS at the time and was assigned the task of watching the practice displays to ensure that the a/c did not cross the display line. Another squadron member and I were given a car and positioned ourselves at the Western end of the display line. Said F4 crashed whilst travelling directly towards us and, as we ducked into the footwells, parts of the disintegrated a/c thudded into the ground around us.

Nothing hit the car, which is simply remarkable. Knowing where we were, several squadron members believed that, at the very least, we must have been in significant danger of injury.

We then walked up to the impact site, which is where my memory, I suspect deliberately for self-protection, is vague, suffice to say it was not pleasant. A tough introduction (I was in my first full year on the squadron) to military flying.

Whilst I didn't know them, my sympathies remain with the families of Chris Lackman and Jack Thompson.

[Pontius Navigator]

And of course Gainesy, RIP.

[Wander00]

Crikey, this site knows how to tickle the memory - sadly I recall this accident all too well, but for a somewhat unusual reason. At the time I was the Non-Public Funds deskie at Brampton. I had been discussing insurance a week or so before with Abingdon's OCPMS, and I suggested that if weather or operational considerations caused cancellation of the Abingdon Open Day, their non public funds could take quiet a hit, and they might consider insuring against cancellation or bad weather. After a lot of hassle (not least from his boss) they did insure. I was horrified when I heard that the show was cancelled not due to weather but due to this tragic accident. Never in my life have I wanted to be more wrong. I felt like a modern day Job. A very sad and sobering event.

[mr ripley]

I was watching from outside 6 AEF, saw the F16 display then decided to go back inside when the F4 started so saw nothing but heard the boom. Agree, a salutary introduction to military life.

[Valiantone]

The worst part of the whole accident was the ITV footage of the wreckage strewn all over the place filmed from on the airfield on the Sunday, IIRC.


I assume that was shown to keep the masses quiet, and point out why the show didn't happen.


It was like my memory of the site between Walcott and Billinghay near Coningsby of the aftermath of the pair of 228 OCU FGR.2s that collided in April 82.


V1

[morningmorning]

The 228 collision is one I will not forget. Only one of the aircraft crashed, the crew of the remaining aircraft did the most spectacular job of recovering the aircraft to Coningsby. I watched the aircraft taxying in - one of those "how the hell did he keep that flying?" moments. Respect.

[Wyler]

I knew Chris Lackman. Went on a Det to Deci with him. Nice chap and great fun.

22 Years? Wow!!!!

RIP

[Darvan]

Not many of you may realise this but Chris Lackman was also the Vulcan copilot on Black Bucks 4, 5 and 6, the defence suppression missions flown from ASI to the Falklands. Black Buck 6 resulted in an emergency diversion into Rio International. Chris's captain was awarded the DFC for that mission but Chris also played a big part in the recovery, which was touch and go all the way in with the aircraft de-pressurised at 45,000 ft, the door hatch open and difficult to re-close, the crew on pressure breathing for 30 mins, and with 2 Northrop F-5s in chase. The aircraft landed with only 1500 lbs of fuel (insufficient for one visual circuit). For the very first time (and after some 34 years) this story has now been told in its entirety in Tony Blackman's book, Vulcan Boys. This story has never been told before, which includes technical detail of how the Shrike missiles were launched against Argentinian radars, the diversion into Rio, and the involvement of the CIA and Pope John Paul VI in the crew's release. A riveting read.

[myinspiration]

I sometimes Google this crash and, having found this forum, I thought I would add my thoughts....

This was a really sad day. I had just started at Abingdon College a few weeks earlier. I was a huge aviation fanatic at the time and we had seen planes rehearsing for the Air Day all day.

After College, I was walking up to where Wootton Road meets Long Tow to meet my dad for a lift home. As I got into the car we remarked on the Phantom overhead. It was only a couple of hours later at home that we heard on the news that it had crashed, killing the crew.
It was a very strange experience because that very week I had been to RAF Biggin Hill for aircrew officer selection - and failed. Certainly made me think!
Having just read the accident report (thanks for the link wiggy) I had always assumed that the crash had happened some time later. However, reading the report, the Phantom couldn't have been over Abingdon for more than a couple of minutes (flyover, 360 turn and fatal loop). I can only assume that we missed the fireball by one or two minutes at the most. We were heading north through Wootton and it was probably behind us or obscured by trees or houses. I think the Phantom was either doing the overflight or, possibly, I saw it in the 360 deg turn.
It's an odd feeling having missed the crash by such a short margin - not that I would have enjoyed having that on my memory.

The crash was the talk of Abingdon for years and, as this forum demonstrates, some local people still remember this tragic event.
My question is this: why didn't they eject?

[kenparry]

My question is this: why didn't they eject?

With an aircraft of that level of performance, by the time it is apparent that the aircraft will hit the ground, the performance of that Martin Baker seat is not sufficient to save you.

[typerated]

An aviation physiologist might put it better but in my experience this is a case where you are busy working the problem and not 100% knowing of the outcome.

You know you are in trouble but i imagine right until almost the end the majority of cognitive focus is on making the aeroplane turn better to escape in this case.

For example say a wing falls off - as soon as the brain has register this (and that the aircraft is unflyable) then the pilot will have no decision to make - just gone!

But where you can (might) fly out of a situation that is where the mind goes - and to the exclusion of other options - When it is obvious that it is too late - it is too late!

[RAFAT]

I was also there on the day having taken a static display aircraft down for the show. It was a shocking experience.

I still have the accident report as shown below.

https://www.pprune.org/members/22957-rafat-albums-various-picture1242-img002.jpg

[A340Yumyum]

I still have the accident report as shown below.

https://www.pprune.org/members/22957-rafat-albums-various-picture1242-img002.jpg

Where below?

[Pontius Navigator]

Where below?

try here http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B51B5979-9D69-43AE-9D91-2B6A762E5E3D/0/maas88_13_phantom_xv428_23sept88.pdf

thanks Wiggy

[Rhino power]

try here http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B51B5979-9D69-43AE-9D91-2B6A762E5E3D/0/maas88_13_phantom_xv428_23sept88.pdf

thanks Wiggy
Links to a page saying the report has been archived, PN...

Try this link instead- XV428 MAAS (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121109141711/http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B51B5979-9D69-43AE-9D91-2B6A762E5E3D/0/maas88_13_phantom_xv428_23sept88.pdf)

-RP

[RAFAT]

A340Yumyum - Apologies, when I said "below" I was simply referring to the picture that was below my text.

[myinspiration]

Chilling photo on the cover of the accident report, A340YumYum. Is that the cover of the document that appears online (the MAAS report)? Or was there a more detailed report?

Thanks for the replies to my ejection question typerated and KenParry.

There is another thread about this crash on a different site and someone quotes a 'cancel two late lunches' radio call from the navigator. However, having Googled this, it seems this is a long-standing story that pre-dates this crash and has been attributed to several incidents.

Looking at the map of the airfield and the co-ordinates of the crash site, it would have come down 500m to the west of us as we travelled up the Wootton Road. If they were over the airfield for 2 or 3 minutes only (I am guessing) then it really was close.

It's been a real privilege to read other peoples' recollections about this sad event. It really did make a huge impression on me as a young man, and I have never forgotten it.

[Vjetmanic]

I have a glossy magazine with photos of the accident, I think it was Hello magazine. Saw the accident from near the airfield fire station and told the civilians I was hosting for the show that it would be cancelled. I drove to the airfield access gate near Cholswell Road and set up a picket point until the crash cordon could be put in place. I felt sorry for the medical staff sent to deal with the aftermath.

[57mm]

We watched the crew practise at Leuchars, while our jets were being turned. The general consensus among us was that the display was gamey to say the least. We were surprised that senior officer approval was subsequently granted. Very sad.

[Vasco Sodcat]

How strong the wind was that day has always been a vivid memory for me. Three of us took a Wessex Aldergrove-Valley-Chivenor-(Lyneham or Brize, can't remember without the log book to hand)-Benson. At Valley after the refuel we had 40 kts IAS indicated (safe single-engine speed) before we'd even left the ground.
Near the Cardigan Bay coast, despite routing well upwind of high ground because of the westerlies, we suddenly lost 300' height. The other front-ender and I looked at each other and said simultaneously "did you do that?"
At Chivenor, dropping off kit for our JEngO, it was noticeable that no TWU flying was taking place.
The approach into Benson was challenging, and when we started talking to VAS on landing the incident at nearby Abingdon was the first thing we heard.
Raising a metaphorical glass to all absent friends.

[Ken Scott]

I was a student on ULAS at the time, I’d watched the F16 do its stuff from my car while waiting at the lights to cross the runway then driven to the Mess for the beer call. I was walking from the car park when the F4 practice started & thought he seemed rather low in his loop. From my line of sight he disappeared behind some buildings then there was a big fireball. It was rather shocking to witness as a student pilot & even more so when I discovered that bits of wreckage had taken out the fence line where I’d be parked only a few minutes before.

[GeeRam]

We watched the crew practise at Leuchars, while our jets were being turned. The general consensus among us was that the display was gamey to say the least. We were surprised that senior officer approval was subsequently granted. Very sad.

I saw his display at West Malling Great Warbirds a few weeks earlier, and remember thinking it was 'sporty' for a F4 aeros, compared to previous years.

There's a good video of that West Malling routine on Youtube and probably looks worse now knowing what happened a few weeks later.

[jookey]

I was just googling this crash and found this. I was 8 when this happened. I'd gone to get some toys from my bedroom and looked out the window just before it crashed. It looked like it was going to do the loop and then it just hit the ground. There was a big explosion type thing come out of the ground and it made enough noise that my mum was like 'what was that'. I ended up getting PTSD from it and getting a huge fear of planes. I used to think they were going to crash on me every time they flew over and I had to have counselling for it. I think about it a lot and always wondered about who the pilots were. From what I remember the other plane had to emergency land on the dual carriageway