Jetstar Cadetship??

[Sqwark2000]

What's the latest on this wonderful scheme to print money for the one star airline?

Has anyone accepted/been accepted to the scheme and started their training?

Has anything official been produced for cadets detailing Terms & Cond of the scheme....?

S2K

[ZK-NSN]

From what I have heard in NZ:
$120k for the training, PPL to type rating. pay frozen at $63k for 4 years. Also offering work experience at Bunnings on the weekends as well.

I'll take regular piston GA over Jet GA anyday.

[KRUSTY 34]

And if you can't afford the $120K upfront, then you can salary sacrifice $30K P/A for that 4 years!

End result: $34K P/A (Kiwi!) for an A320 First Officer! :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Jethro Gibbs]

they want people to pay them for a job for f%^K sake what ****e.:ugh:

[anonymouspilot]

I see Oxford are advertising for an ATO again...
I assume they'd be offering a bucketload of cash for such a position considering their cadet contract, yet no takers??
Could it be that those experienced for such a role want nothing to do with this dodgy scheme? I think they may have an issue filling senior training roles with experience pilots with real world experience, then who's going to train cadets?? Brand spanking Gr3s looking for hours, and the graduates are supposed to come out at a higher standard than experienced GA drivers...how is that going to work?

[MCKES]

$34000 kiwi is $26000 aus How is one suppose to live on that much :ugh: Are those figures accurate Krusty? For the sake of those on the cadetship i hope not:uhoh:

[KRUSTY 34]

Only if they allow you to salary sacrifice MCKES. Just basic arithmetic. If not, I guess you can gross the entire $64K. Whooohoo!!!

However you will have to find the $120K up front. Having rich or mind numbingly naive and or generous parents would be a definite advantage! :}

[rmcdonal]

$34000 kiwi is $26000 aus

Better off at REX as an FO.

[AerocatS2A]

Translating it into Aus dollars isn't very useful unless you intend to spend the money in Australia. Exchange rates don't work that neatly.

That being said it is definitely crap money, BUT as an aspiring pilot it probably seems a lot more attractive than spending say $50,000 on training to MECIR and flying clapped out pistons in GA earning similar $$$ then still having to fork out $30,000 for an A320 rating when you get through your Jetstar interview having taken the long way around.

[Jack Ranga]

Or doing a trade (and not having to pay for your training) that will set you up for the future. Giving you real choices about which direction you take in life, having real choices that are not dictated by seniority or management 'rules' or skewed 'market' forces.

Or doing a degree, which you will have to pay for but will get a return on investment.

Ahhhh, financial freedom that will allow you to choose how you will enjoy your aviation passion :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Sounds good in theory Jack', but when it comes to flying, a lot of rational thought goes out the window. In the past these non-rational, driven individuals were in sufficient numbers to satisfy the demands of all air operators, not just the airlines.

Now, a large proportion of youngsters couldn't give a rats about flying for a living. The "driven" types are definitely much thinner on the ground, and many of those who aspire to a career in aviation are thinking before they leap. On the surface that may seem like a good thing to do, but to suceed in this game, logic must sometimes give way to passion, at least in the beginning. Those that weigh up the pros' and cons' of a flying career rather than those that just go out and get their arse into an aeroplane, may be thinking rationally, but will it be the career that they hoped it would be? With todays offerings from the corporate snakeoil salesmen, I see a trail of disilusioned, bitter and twisted individuals, who in hindsight, probably should have gone on to do something else! :sad:

[peugeotboi]

Ladies and gentlemen.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE......GET THE F**K OVER IT.

Lets all be helpful here. The name of the thread isn't asking what you think of this program!

I'm asking can anyone that has gone though the testing process to give information about the selection process and what needs to be focused on if you plan on getting past the stages??


Please just help out....i think we all got the F**KEN point after 2 threads have been locked, lets not make this a 3rd.

So, if anyone has done the testing can you please tell us how you went and what sort of testing was conducted?

[Hasselhof]

Ladies and gentlemen.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE......GET THE F**K OVER IT.

Umm... no

Please just help out....i think we all got the F**KEN point after 2 threads have been locked, lets not make this a 3rd.

The fewer people that are encouraged to sign up to this abomination the better.

[Mr. Hat]

Well said Hasselhof.

For someone like yourself that could go from no job pistons to RHS jet to say this shows that you are obviously not fooled by Shiny Jet Syndrome.

Don't worry mate you'll get there nearly as quickly and will be able to shop at places other than Best and Less.

Wrote a cracker of a post about this a while back you might have liked..

[WannaBeBiggles]

I was sitting an ATPL just before Christmas and I was the ONLY person in there that wasn't a J* cadet... All ab-initio and sitting their CPL exams, so there has been plenty of uptake by the looks of it.

I asked what happens should they fail any exams and just got a bunch of "I wouldn't have a :mad:ing clue!" looks.

So not sure if there is any QA and assessment/re-assessment happening over there, or at the very least the poor buggers don't know what happens should they get booted off the course.

Make what you will of the above, but food for thought...

[Mr. Hat]

I pity the guys in the LHS at Jetstar.

[Outtahere]

And not just because of the cadets.

[lineupandwait]

Well put it this way, it couldn't possibly get any worse, unless people start paying to work.

[eocvictim]

Well put it this way, it couldn't possibly get any worse, unless people start paying to work.

Standing by.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE......GET THE F**K OVER IT.

Now young lady, "playing" the man doesn't mean swearing and being aggressive. I've met plenty of female pilots who are assertive, conscientious and extremely good at their jobs without being aggressive or rude.

[peugeotboi]

I've put an application through to apply for the Jetstar Ab-initio Cadetship via CTC and i''ve just got an email saying that i've progressed to stage 2.

I can understand where all of you are coming from. To be honest it's not about the money but it's BLOODY embarrassing that you have to pay $295nz, just so you can be there and be tested...i mean that's abit embarrasing on the company, I can understand you have to pay for the security clearance and ASIC bits and pieces...but MY GOD!!!! so i can understand where most of you are all coming from.

Also i'd like to point out after selection process and completing the 65 week training at CTC...This is what has been posted on the website under 'CTC FAQ''....

"Am I guaranteed a job?

These new programs with Jetstar provide a fantastic opportunity to enter the airline profession (LOL) and whilst Jetstar is committed to providing a career opportunity to as many applicants as possible the numbers are quite naturally limited.(So then why offer cadetships if you can't guarantee F/O positions) At the outset of the program it must be remembered that no cadet training program guarantees a job, since the individual trainee has to achieve the competency requirements of both CTC and Jetstar during the training. However, subject to that and there being no change to Jetstar’s recruitment plans, you will be offered a job with the airline on successful completion of the program"



I can understand where all of you are coming from.


Now...surely their has to be positives out of this whole cadetship!

That's why i'm asking for ANYONE that has done this cadetship what they think of it, Is it worth doing? and where do you sit now? are you flying the A320?

[eocvictim]

Obviously you are very new to aviation because no one has completed this course. It has only just begun. The first "cadets"(obviously this title only applies to those who are accepted for employment by Jetstar) wont complete their course until late 2011 early 2012.

[peugeotboi]

Seems like your new to the aviation industry. Jetstar have been running this cadetship for the past 3 years. Get it striaght!!!

[napiersabre]

You've gotta a lot to learn BOY.

I'm sure our fellow ppruners will educate you shortly.

Enjoy!

[eocvictim]

napier the term "boi" generally means the woman who wears the pants in a lesbian relationship. Although I'm not sure if pugboi knows this.

I don't know why I bother dealing with trolls but since you asked for me to "get it straight" (pun intended I'm sure), here you go.

Jetstar Cadet program, the earliest internet based article.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2010/06/jetstar-launches-cadet-pilot-scheme/

Note this caption:

The program will accept its first intake of pilot candidates in July 2010,

And also:
... the 18 month long Ab-initio Cadet Program for candidates who have little or no flying experience...

So ask again in 12 months... Like I said.

Hopefully this is ample time for you to learn to think before you speak your ignorant mind.

[Artificial Horizon]

Having had a few 'cadets' on the jumpseat now I can confirm that the first intake are at Jetstar now. This first lot though are not ab-initio but already hold basic CPL/IR when joining. Overall a nice bunch of guys, it is not a great deal, but looking back to when I popped out of the sausage factory if someone had offered me $42,000 per year to fly a nice big shiny jet instead of going around the country and eventually the world in seach of employment, I would have said 'yes' as well.

[KRUSTY 34]

You're absolutely right AH, as would most of us. But they don't know any better, as we probably didn't know much better all those years ago. What seriously concerns me however is just how low the bar has now been set. I continue to be blown away by the low pay and appalling conditions :*, but I have a deeper fear for what the longer term socio-economic results will be. Not just for these people, but for the profession as a whole.

Financially stressed, resonably intelligent (albeit naive), and socially isolated individuals in the cockpit of an airliner with upwards from 180 people on board, is surely a recipe for disaster.

I said it in a previous thread. Jetstar Management, HAVE YOU LOST YOUR FREAK'N MINDS!!!

[Aerozepplin]

I think the best thing about this thread is that I've now been made aware of the lovely little Peugeot 504. Thanks An3!

There's one for sale for $4000 on an online auction... very tempted.

[The Guru]

...However, subject to that and there being no change to Jetstar’s recruitment plans, you will be offered a job with the airline on successful completion of the program"

The problem everyone has in Jetstar, is that the plans change on a daily basis:


Crewing are here one day...outsourced to Manila the next,:confused:
Pilots are EBA one day...SIN and NZ contractors the next,:(
Pilots are seniority listed one day...trounced by direct A330 FO and A320 CAPTs the next,:{
Cabin crew are AUS one day...foreign labour operating domestically on 17-22 hours shifts the next,:=
AUS Cabin crew on an award one day...employed casually the next, and:*


...the list just keeps go on, and on, and on and you cannot plan for your future or your security. The writing on the wall is a very long list, and something is going to break soon. You would be crazy to join in the current climate.

The G

[peugeotboi]

Mr Guru..I rate that!!! nicely said.

[rmcdonal]

I'm asking can anyone that has gone though the testing process to give information about the selection process and what needs to be focused on if you plan on getting past the stages??


Please just help out....i think we all got the F**KEN point after 2 threads have been locked, lets not make this a 3rd.
No you have not got the point, why would anyone want to help you undercut our terms and conditions? If anything it is in every commercial pilots best interest to deliberately make this hard for you.
In fact it would be better if the thread was locked simply so you don't receive an answer.

[propblast]

peugeoboi, you wrote (my bolding)

I'm asking can anyone that has gone though the testing process to give information about the selection process and what needs to be focused on if you plan on getting past the stages??

reads to me that you want to get through, not great but ok.

then you wrote

Mr Guru..I rate that!!! nicely said.

Where is your head at now, assuming your seeing the light and withdrawing your application for the cadetship?

[rmcdonal]

And to any of you old sentimental guys who reckon this is the end for your working and pay conditions it really isn't,
Yes it is.
How can a turbo prop pilot argue for a pay rise when you will fly a larger aircraft for less?
I bet you turn into one of those guys who bitches when he is passed over for command because he doesn't have the hours for an ATPL yet.

[Aerozepplin]

tobz92, I've made my views clear before on the subject, but I'm a gen Y-er, I want things now, I don't always put the effort in I should, etc etc, but the Jetstar cadetship makes me literally feel physically sick. When I started looking into the details and started to think about what it might mean for the industry here I actually felt quite upset.

Please don't make it a generational thing.

[Oriana]

I can help out with one of the interview questions:

"Tell me about a time about when you had to wipe your own arse":hmm:

[bowing]

speaking from experience try being a safety pilot for one of the j* cadets...a f%$@# experience within an experience coming into land...for a second there thought we were landing on an aircraft carrier:sad::eek:....they know the aircraft systems etc...I FEEL for these TRIs....:(

[Ando1Bar]

And to any of you old sentimental guys who reckon this is the end for your working and pay conditions it really isn't, your all just jealous such a course was never around when you started out, and people such as myself wont have to 'tough it out in GA' for 5 odd years to get their hours up. And many of you have this polluted mindset that flying pieces of junk in remote locations, for next to nothing pay, is the only way to make it to the airlines.


Fantastic attitude, you'll go far in the industry. :D

Make sure you tell your captain this if you eventually make it to an airbus. Xbox, f@cebook and Ray Bans don't count when the ****e hits the fan and you've got to drag something out of the experience bank to get the job done. Your captain will really enjoy his 18 year old F-O from YMEN rolling up in to a ball and a two-pilot operation turning single-pilot when the rare moment of terror occurs.

I can just imagine some of the conversations on the flight deck:
Captain: "Anything interesting happen in your career so far?"
Cadet: "Yeah, well one day I had to like land a 182 on my solo CPL exercise in like a 15 knot crosswind".
Pregnant pause.
Cadet: "So, like, did you see what Justin Beiber posted on twi tter?"
Pregnant pause all the rest of the way to Darwin.

To the others on this forum who actually command respect, don't make this a generational battle. I'm a Gen Y'er too, but I don't subscribe to the rubbish this troll is dishing up.

Airline cadetships can have pros and cons (excluding the JQ program - mostly cons), but cadets with poor attitudes are only a con to the flight deck.

I really hope Tobz is a wind-up.

P.S. If not, learn when to use 'your' and 'their' properly.

[TriMedGroup]

"tobz" and "peugeotboi?"

Just curious but say you were able to do your CPL and MECIR for $50k whilst living at home with your parents, which would take you 12 months. Then if I guaranteed you a job flying a 206 for 12 months earning the award (more than a cadet from what I read) and you did 700 hours. Then after that 12 months I you could get a job on a C310 for 18 months earning $47k and you did 800 - 1000 hours in that time. After 3 and a half years (if your age is correct you would then be around 22yo) you would have say 1700 total, 1500 command and 800 multi command, an ATPL, a lot of single pilot IF and night hours etc. Then what if you could apply direct to (name airline of choice) and start earning $90k+

If I could guarantee you that it would happen exactly like that, would you take that option or still do the cadetship? If you said yes I'll take the GA option then guess what, that is actually how it happens for motivated people who work hard..!

You might even have a ****load of fun along the way, drink piss with all sorts of characters, slay birds from exotic places, have to make some painful command decisions and learn from them, and when you finish up in a jet have some respect from your peers.

Harden up you lazy spoilt ****s.

[TriMedGroup]

And for the record on these highly anonymous forums, the cadets that I know (QANTAS) are ripper blokes and probably have better manipulative skills and theoretical knowledge than me so obviously the selection process works. They arent accepting $35k salaries either so it's a little different.

I'm only at the start of my career so don't want to sound like a know it all, but all my peers that took the GA path have had similar experiences to what I described. Stop stuffing it up for the rest of us.

[myshoutcaptain]

tobz92_ymen

Your attitude is sh*t. I am embarrassed to be a Gen Y with your comments.

Do you get to wear 3 bars like the other guys?I hope not - hopefully you're weeded out sooner than later.

Enjoy flying the line - at ymen.

:mad:

[foodstamps]

If I could guarantee you that it would happen exactly like that, would you take that option or still do the cadetship? If you said yes I'll take the GA option then guess what, that is actually how it happens for motivated people who work hard..!

Does it really?

Sorry I'm not trying to be sarcastic or start anything here. It's a genuine question. How many (lets say, percentage wise) hard working guys n gals out there who go through flying training and then the industry whether it be through GA, instructing or other such as overseas... actually end up on a good job with good pay and Ts&Cs that are worthy of what they do, and not get paid less than a servo clerk?

reason I ask is I've got this impression (I'm new to the industry) that unfortunately only a low percentage of pilots ever make it to the front of a jet and get paid what they're worth... some give up, and find a non-flying job with better pay... others continue battling in GA on pistons working 6-7 days a week (even though I love flying I'd hate to work more than 5days a week. I have a life as well) for crappy pay... or for some underpaid RPT regional op?

Can someone just enlighten me here?

[Orion Delta]

TriMedGroup,

I really enjoyed your post, I was almost in tears reading the last bit ;)

[Sbaker]

Is it me or do some people who have never been out in the REAL world think that all there is to life is flying?... don't forget that you may want a nice car one day or a home the bank doesn't own, and be able to support a family if you have one.

...I let go of flying for 2 weeks out of every 3.

By the time i'm 26-27 I will OWN my home and have my shiny GT to drive to work (wherever I may be flying). I wont have to take out a loan on anything, and be able to say my entire training was self funded (how many Gen Y can say that?)

...Have fun being in the pointy end of a jet with a $300k mortage for the next 30 years. :ugh:

My advice, get a job up North while China want the resources, it's not very often people can walk into a $120k/yr job with little or no experience.

[eocvictim]

What is good pay?

When I started flying casually some 10-15 years ago all I wanted to do was sit at the pointy end of a 767/777. Back then I was under the naive impression that I, one day, would be on $250k; after toiling around for 6ish years in GA then X number of years building seniority (yes I was expecting to spend 6-8 years in GA flying **** heaps... because I'm dedicated to my career). A quick check of the QF eba and this is still achievable (at least on paper). That is, if I could sit still for 3-4 hours at a time, deal with only flying ILS-ILS, put up with decision making being a bureaucratic process, work more than 700hours a year, deal with not being home every night or put up with not touching the controls for 4 years before even becoming 2nd in charge!

The fact is I love making my own decision, flying black hole approaches, negotiating weather based on MY experience, conducting flare path landings, flying anywhere and everywhere each day. Maybe when I'm older and want to sit back in a cushy, boring job I'll look at QF but that's not on my mind. What is on my mind though is, what will happen to my lifestyle/future when my employer decides that since airlines don't pay 100k, I don't deserve 100k?