Boot up problem

[Brewster Buffalo]

Computer is a Dell XPS 420 bought in April 2008. This fault has just started where on boot up after showing the usual displays eg. maker's name etc after microsoft screen with the bar with strobing effect the screen goes blank and then nothing happens.

The light showing the hard drive goes very faint showing a little activity. The computer has a mini-view screen on the main case which works ok...but I have to shut down...and try again after a few minutes. Took three attempts to fully boot up this time. Only worked after switching off at the mains

Just doing a full scan but is it a hard disk fault?

[mixture]

In all likelyhood, if it was a hard drive fault, the thing wouldn't boot at all.

Have you done any recent software updates that might have caused this ? Has there been any recent "strange" behaviour that might imply a hardware fault of some sort ?

Have you tried booting off the manufacturers CD ? Does that work ok ?

[Brewster Buffalo]

Thanks for reply. Full scan showed nothing and the disk was defragged beginning of this month. No recent downloads or strange happenings.

Looking at the event viewer it shows a "critical" event with an event id 100 - Boot Performance Monitoring a few days ago. In general it says "Windows has started up: Boot Duration : 113280ms IsDegradation : true Incident Time (UTC) : 18/09/2010 20:45:47

In detail
EventData
BootTsVersion 2
BootStartTime 2010-09-18T20:45:47.827Z
BootEndTime 2010-09-18T20:49:06.086Z
SystemBootInstance 769
UserBootInstance 743
BootTime 113280
MainPathBootTime 29030
BootKernelInitTime 26
BootDriverInitTime 2511
BootDevicesInitTime 3467
BootPrefetchInitTime 39634
BootPrefetchBytes 523894784
BootAutoChkTime 0
BootSmssInitTime 10572
BootCriticalServicesInitTime 546
BootUserProfileProcessingTime 974
BootMachineProfileProcessingTime 30
BootExplorerInitTime 6967
BootNumStartupApps 21
BootPostBootTime 84250
BootIsRebootAfterInstall false
BootRootCauseStepImprovementBits 0
BootRootCauseGradualImprovementBits 0
BootRootCauseStepDegradationBits 9437184
BootRootCauseGradualDegradationBits 9437184
BootIsDegradation true
BootIsStepDegradation true
BootIsGradualDegradation true
BootImprovementDelta 0
BootDegradationDelta 57091
BootIsRootCauseIdentified true

This "critical" event id 100 appears regularly on the log going back to September 2008. There are also logs of another Boot Performance Monitoring Event 101 which is a "warning".
Tried the link to the online Microsoft Technet but no results.

Anyone know what this means??

[mixture]

IIIRC all events in the 1xx range are to do with boot performance monitoring, and are therefore by definition "warnings" rather than anything more sinister.

[A A Gruntpuddock]

Might be worth checking doing an error check on the disk.

[green granite]

Only worked after switching off at the mains

Does that mean you never switch it off at the mains when you shut down?

If so, the power supply remains running all the time and your fault description could indicate that the auto protection circuit on one of the voltages may be operating, I suggest you switch it off at the mains whenever you shut it down. if that improves the matter then get a new PSU.

[mixture]

If so, the power supply remains running all the time and your fault description could indicate that the auto protection circuit on one of the voltages may be operating, I suggest you switch it off at the mains whenever you shut it down. if that improves the matter then get a new PSU.

Does the PSU get quite hot too ? You might have one of those flammable ones .... :}

[green granite]

And your point is? mixture. Are you suggesting PSUs never fail? Do you even know how they function? Do you know what protection circuits some of them have? The cheaper ones admittedly would probably blow a fuse in the fault condition, but better ones are capable of just shutting down one voltage, or were when I was a service engineer.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Green Granite, I think (and I hesitate to put words into his mouth) that Mixture was mixing up the computer in question with a laptop, and hence this issue:

Exploding Laptop.com - Your Dell is on Fire ! (http://explodinglaptop.com/)

[mixture]

green granite

Are you suggesting PSUs never fail?

No.

Do you even know how they function?

Yes.

Do you know what protection circuits some of them have?

Ah yes, those "protection circuits" that have caused various models to overheat and, on occasion, catch fire.... great protection circuits !

As the old aviation saying goes, GIGO.


Mike-Bracknell

Thank you for the backup Mike.

For the record, I tend to avoid anything Dell like the plague..... so I don't know model numbers, and for some reason the original poster's message read like it was referring to a laptop.

[FullOppositeRudder]

A puzzling fault, given what you've revealed so far ....

I would be thinking along the lines of a problem in the OS files or registry area. Is it XP or Vista? If it's XP, does it boot OK in safe mode?

I have recently had a few XP machines displaying similar behaviour in recent months. It's been "cured" (if one ever dares to claim that) by running a registry cleaner program, and/or a system re-install/repair using the original supplied XP disk. Caution is required if you were to go own this road. It's relatively easy to select the wrong option.

The solving of the problem by removing the power source and then re-connecting is a strange one. Given that the 420 appears to be desktop, it may be significant, or it could be co-incidence. I've seen a few power supplies fail in recent months also.

If it's still coming to life at times, I'd be backing up my more valuable data as a top priority.

Perhaps you have more clues or a fix by now ...?

regards,
FoR

[Brewster Buffalo]

Thanks for the replies

Is it XP or Vista?Vista. It is a desktop.

The solving of the problem by removing the power source and then re-connecting is a strange one. It took three attempts to get going today. Switched off power at the mains after 1st failed attempt but no joy on second so suspect not the problem. After the 2nd attempt disconnected the modem from the PC and success but again that might not the cause.

"cured" .....by running a registry cleaner program,I was thinking along those lines..not sure of McAfee has one inbuilt.. Further research on going.

[BOAC]

BB - you have not responded to FOR's enquiry about booting into Safe mode - have you tried that? I would also suggest running sfc with your Vista disk to confirm your system files are 'normal.

[Brewster Buffalo]

BB - you have not responded to FOR's enquiry about booting into Safe mode - have you tried that? I would also suggest running sfc with your Vista disk to confirm your system files are 'normal.That is on my list to do next along with a recommendation from another site of going into safe mode and running sfc/scannow.

[Theviewdownhere]

I know it sounds odd, but take out your graphics card and reseat it. At first the boot is in low graphics mode but after the Microsoft screen, it kicks into full graphics mode..... quite often locking up the computer.

[BOAC]

NO! Before you do that try Safe Mode which will check the same thing WITHOUT fiddling inside the box.

[Theviewdownhere]

BOAC - Agreed, but if it does work in Safe Mode - the graphics card may be the problem. Was just pointing this out.

[Brewster Buffalo]

OK pressed F8 went into safe mode OK and ran scannow. That reported some files repaired but other not. Restarted only to get stuck as before. Then when it booted correctly, at the third attempt, turned off the hibernate mode in powercfg. Since then two successful boot ups.

This problem started last week when I left the computer for a while, something I rarely do, and on return it has gone into sleep mode and I couldn't "awake" it. This XPS has a small LED screen in the top of the processor box through which, by adjacent control buttons, you run Windows Sideshow which "allows you view information from your computer regardless of whether it is on, off or sleeping" When the computer was "stuck" this would still work which leads me to think that rather than being locked up the computer had gone into a sleep mode.

Can't explain why it always seems to boot up on the third attempt though. Fingers crossed problem solved.

[Mr Optimistic]

admin tools> computer maintenance etc

Need to do a check at boot.

Also have a look in device manager to make sure ultradma is working ok for the disc (not pio).

[Brewster Buffalo]

I've done extensive tests of the HD which it passed. Changed the boot up from quick to normal and that seemed to cure it but it is back again today.

Can't decide whether this is a software or hardware issue. Seems to be linked to the boot up procedure.

[Don't Tell Him Pike]

Over the weekend I built a PC for my Mrs, with XP 32bit installed. That too got stuck when I put it into Hibernate mode, so I undid that. It works fine with Standby though. My recommendation would be to leave it with Hibernate disabled and see if that solves the problem, as it may have done from your recent experience.

[OFSO]

I've had my PC now for three years, built locally, ASEUS M2V-MX M/B and running XP Home. Lots of add-ons and extra memory. It also does not like going into hibernation (or rather waking up from it) and much prefers Standby/Sleep.

[Brewster Buffalo]

From further research it seems I have KSOD - or the Black Screen of Death whose causes seem to be legion and some of whose cures I'm trying now.. One being to turn off the Windows Event Log.

Someday someone will invent a stable OS.. :ugh:

[Mr Optimistic]

have you reset these to defaults ? Failed overclocking has sometimes required multiple reboots to get going again: not implying you have overclocked but worth a go. Perhaps try disabling devices (eg wireless which may be upset by hibernate/sleep) and see if it goes away. Other than these rather desperate ideas, change the cmos battery ?

[Brewster Buffalo]

To finish this thread off the problem got worse and the computer would not boot up at all other than in safe mode. Left it with a computer repair firm and in the end the only solution was to restore the OS. Thankfully safe mode allowed the savings of data.

I think the problem started with the shut down mentioned in my 25 Sep post. Prior to this when you switched the computer on at the mains there would be a quick burst of the cpu fan. During the problem period this didn't happen but following the restore it is doing again. May mean something.

Needless to say I've switched off the sleep function.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Sadly this problem recurred though in a different form.

PC locked up and when restarted it wouldn't go into Vista but ok in safe mode as before but this time the display was showing random shapes and signs as well as the normal display in safe mode.

Turns out it was a graphics card defect and cured when that was replaced. Search on the net turned up several instances of the same graphics card going after three years and my PC is just coming up to its.......third year...

[OFSO]

A strange coincidence but after three years of no problems coming out of overnight standby (not hibernation), my own PC has refused to wake up twice in the past week. Had to power down then up again, perfect restart. Wonder if there's been a recent update of software that I didn't spot ?

WIN XP, 2 gigs AMD Athlon 64 dual core, 2Mb RAM, AsusTeK board bus 200 megs., Tests are: disc check = OK, malwarebytes scan = OK, defragged recently. Permanent internet connection via WiMax. AVG run daily. WIN Firewall, WiFi Firewall.

Anyone else ?

[oldbeefer]

I think that's what XP has finally become!

[rickity]

2 thoughts come to mind, one is memory, which can be given a full check with something like memtest86 from memtest.org. the bios test done during startup is not particulary detailed and can miss a failing address.

the second thought is mother board capacitors, dell had a problem with a machine gx270 series around 2007, anyways if the capacitors on the mother board are in anyway expanding, leaking, or going brown its the end of the road for the motherboard, I came across one recently that had a wide range of symptoms from failing to boot, moments of stability for up to half an hour, crashing just after loggin, rarely twice the same.

Rick

[BOAC]

A strange coincidence but after three years of no problems coming out of overnight standby (not hibernation), my own PC has refused to wake up twice in the past week. - possibly a co-incidence but Mrs B's Dell laptop did the same yesterday too. Last update was some Dell 'help' prog (?yesterday?) which I think I may just 'lose'. Kindly set itself to run at boot up without asking too:mad:

[Brewster Buffalo]

Back where I started here...problem as before refuses to boot into Vista. This problem comes on gradually. Won't boot into Vista so you use system restore and then everything is ok for while and then it happens again but more frequently.

So it failed on the 7th April to boot; system restore used and then four successful boots ups and then a failure on 15th. System restore but failure on the next boot-up and the two after that. So its failing every time now. Startup repair always finds nothing wrong - problem signature 6 NoRootCause - and system restore only working on its second attempt this last time whereas before

The odd thing is how the fault occurs more and more frequently. I know if I do a complete reload of Vista, as was done a few months ago, it will probably be ok for while and then it will be back.

In the event viewer this appears on every date of failure to boot..(along a lot of other stuff but this is marked as error..

The entry <C:\PROGRAMDATA\MICROSOFT\WINDOWS\START MENU\PROGRAMS\MCAFEE\MCAFEE INTERNET SECURITY.LNK> in the hash map cannot be updated.

Context: Application, SystemIndex Catalog

Details:
A device attached to the system is not functioning. (0x8007001f)


Could this be the cause? Its the increasing occurence of the fault that also bafflles me.

Any thoughts...change to Window 7... or buy a new computer..

[vulcanised]

The word MCAFEE sends a shiver down my spine.

[mixture]

The word MCAFEE sends a shiver down my spine.

The word Vista sends a shiver down mine... :E

[BOAC]

BB - switch Mcafee off?

[green granite]

control panned>admin tools>system config>startup> then un-tick all the things you don't need such as mcafee etc, click on apply then go to services tab and do the same and click on apply: note ticking the hide microsoft box helps.

[Spurlash2]

Start/Run/msconfig/Startup tab.

Untick all the ticks in the Start column. Click Apply. (Make a note of what you do have ticked, before you untick)

Reboot and see what happens.

Disconnect from the internet before you do, as AV/Firewall will not load on boot.

Long shot 2. Do you have sufficient space on your hard drive for Windows to boot? say 10 GB of empty space?

[Spurlash2]

Beat me to the post GG.

Note to self. Press F5 more often.

[Brewster Buffalo]

GG, Spurlash 2 (great name) & BOAC

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to go onto safe mode and I will try what you suggest. I could also ask McAfee what the event message means.

McAfee is shipped with Dell computers so there shouldn't really be a problem though this PC is 3 years old.

[Mike-Bracknell]

I could also ask McAfee what the event message means.

McAfee is shipped with Dell computers so there shouldn't really be a problem though this PC is 3 years old.

Excuse me whilst I stifle a laugh.

McAfee is bundled with Dell computers since McAfee pay Dell to bundle it on there. That's the only terms of their agreement. McAfee is pants, uninstall it and use something better.

[vulcanised]

McAfee has never given me any trouble on my Dell (XP).

Probably because the first thing I did was get rid of it before I used the computer.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Switched McAfee off and PC started ok booting normally into Vista.. I'll test it some more to see if McAfee is the cause.

[BOAC]

BB - you will have noticed the cautions - while McAfee is off, be careful what you 'visit' and do not open/download any emails - an overkill no doubt, but better safe than sorry. Switch on the Windows Firewall for safety.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Well switched McAfee off as far as you can. Although listed in the services start up list McShield, McAfee Validation Trust Protection can be unchecked but they cannot be turned off. You can select apply and then OK and then go back and you see they are checked on again.

Also when running OK I selected the McAfee desktop icon and it came up saying everything was working so I'm not sure whether I really turned it off or not. Or did selecting the McAfee icon turn it on??

Anyhow problem has lessened only two fail to boots against about 5 or successes. Only one failure had an event logged something to do with d\longhorn etc etc which a web search suggested a conflict with Vista gadgets..

So better but not fully cured... thanks for the advice..

[vulcanised]

There's probably a special routine to remove McAfeee, just as there is with Norton.

They get hooks in where others don't.

[oldbeefer]

Correct How to uninstall or reinstall supported McAfee consumer products using the McAfee Consumer Products Removal tool (MCPR.exe) (http://service.mcafee.com/FAQDocument.aspx?id=TS100507)

[Mr Optimistic]

Does Safe Mode work OK each and every time ? Full system scan for threats OK ? Downloaded new graphics drivers ?

[Brewster Buffalo]

Does Safe Mode work OK each and every time ? Full system scan for threats OK ? Downloaded new graphics drivers ?

Safe mode works ever time and only once has system restore failed to work. Picking another restore point got over that difficulty. McAfee stills seems to be working so I'll try a full scan. Replacement video card fitted a few weeks ago so I'm assuming up to date drivers but will check..

I thinking of not renewing McAfee and relying on Windows built in stuff eg firewall, defender. I also have a program called Malbyte installed when first sent for repair. There is AVG as an option too

[vulcanised]

I have found a combination of ZoneAlarm and Avast has worked well for me over the past five years, and it's cost me nothing.

[Mr Optimistic]

Oh, OK. A lot of the modern security suites don't like any other security software on there. Have you added any spyware checkers lately ?

When you ran msconfig, did you switch everything off ? Anything in there related to other security software ?