higher education after license

[crazy_bird]

hey guys,
it is possible to go on for further studies after acquiring a JAA ATPL?
i am planning to first get my license, then do a BSC degree, which will serve as a backup.
but what i have heard is that once you acquire your frozen JAA ATPL, you need a minimum of 20 hours of flying time every 6 months, can somebody pls confirm if this is true or not?:confused:
because, if i do my 2-3 degree after my license, i really doubt that i would be able to fly simultaneously.
thanks a lot :)
cheers :ok:

[FlyingStone]

In order to keep your your JAA ATPL exams valid all you need to do is renew instrument rating (IR) every 7 years. I don't know if your CPL has to be valid all the time throughout the period, but renewing SEP and therefore CPL can be (I'm not saying it should be) done by one-hour flight every 2 years with an examiner.

Why don't you get a degree first and then do your flight hours when economy picks up?

[Poeli]

I agree, it's the world upside down, get a degree first and then your licences...

[vserian]

Hi there,
Here in India it is possible to do a degree after your license. I actually did my Bsc Physics after i got ATPL and i did that through correspondence(distance learning) and flying for my airline at the same, and its even possible to get an MBA without doing any Bachelor degree before or after your ATPL.

[crazy_bird]

hey guys,
thanks a lot for your advise! :)
cheers :ok:

[flyboy1818]

I'm grateful for my degree in Aviation Management and its carried me through some hard times and aloud me to forge a back up career in another part of the industry away from the flying side. I have two friends who did a degree after the issue of fATPL, they both now fly for a legacy carrier, so yes it can be done.

[crazy_bird]

@flyboy1818
all right then, so i guess i have a green light if i wanna do my studies in that order.
pls excuse my lack of knowledge:(, but what exactly is an fATPL?, how is it different from an ATPL, or am i just confused? :} :confused:
thanks..

[Poeli]

Frozen atpl: atpl theory with cpl <1500 flight hours...
ATPL:flight hours >1500

[Trolle]

There are some universities that give academic credit for earned flight time. In other words, if you have an ATPL then you can get some credit awarded. Of course, this is only for aviation-related degrees.

I have never looked into this possibility, but merely seen it advertised.

Embry-Riddle distance learning offers this.

[crazy_bird]

@trolle
thanks a lot man :)
i tried searching for the universities, but couldn't find any of this sort
could you pls give me the names of these universities if you have them?
you did mention Embry Riddly, now, will they give extra credit only if you are a FAA ATP holder, or would they offer the same scheme to a JAA ATPL holder??
thanks a lot :)
cheers:ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

The question is, why on earth would you want to do an ATPL and then a BSC?

Presumably you want to be a pilot or you wouldn't be doing the licence ... pilots don't actually need a BSC, or are you actually deliberately planning to be unemployed after your training?

Are you borrowing the pilot training money? Why on earth would you want to pay interest on all that money while you do the degree and you're not earning ... at least do the degree first :bored:

Or how about, if you find yourself unemployed as a pilot, going and getting a non flying JOB and trying to keep the debts under control while you keep the IR current and keep applying for flying jobs?

[crazy_bird]

well, i want to do the Bsc as it'll serve as a backup in case of another recession or my medical become invalid...
Or how about, if you find yourself unemployed as a pilot, going and getting a non flying JOB and trying to keep the debts under control while you keep the IR current and keep applying for flying jobs? it does look like a good idea, thanks :)

Are you borrowing the pilot training money? Why on earth would you want to pay interest on all that money while you do the degree and you're not earning ... at least do the degree first http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wbored.gif no, i am not borrowing the money, so i dont have to worry about any interest or repaying any debts, what i was thinking is after i get my license, i'll do a flight instructor's course and try to get a job as an instructor or maybe with a small carrier just do build up hours, and if possible i'll do a part-time/distance learning Bsc/BBA/MBA course simultaneously, if not, then i'll do a full time course after my license...
cheers:ok:

[crazy_bird]

oh yeah, a lot of people have been telling me that the economy is down and thus the entire industry is currently "messed up"
can someone pls tell me by approx which year or period will the industry start growing again and things will get back to normal, cause then i can plan accordingly...
thanks a lot :)

[AJ1990]

With regards to distance learning I'm currently in the process of doing a degree in history through the Open University whilst training. It's a more financially comfortable situation to be in, you can work, study, and fly, all at the same time. Tuition fees are minimal with the OU and an entire degree can be achieved with the same amount of money as one years tuition fee at any traditional 'brick' university. Becasue it's distance learning I can still hold a job down and keep the money coming in whilst flying as a hobby and working my way towards a CPL. I had commitments at home and a burning desire to fly, this way I can achieve everything and my wallet isn't quite so bruised either :ok:

[crazy_bird]

thanks a lot for your time AJ1990 :)
so i guess the distance learning pathways is int to bad of an idea
cheers:ok:

[AJ1990]

Not to worry. Distance Learning is no walk in the park though I will warn you - you have to be very self-disciplined! There will always be people who think less of distance learning but I've found it to be a real plus with potential employers as the majority understand the discipline and time management required. You can also pace yourself, which combined with a modular training approach is a real benfit. As you have said, things are 'messed up' at the moment - this is why I always reccomend distance learning/modular training. You can keep yourself busy and give yourself skills which will pay off in the future hopefully at a pace determined by the circumstance.

[crazy_bird]

hmmm..thanks :)
i'll keep that in mind
cheers:ok:

[flyboy1818]

City University London will give you a one year credit if you want to do an Air Transport Operations degree, so the course will take two years instead of three, the second year is flight training!

[Groundloop]

City University London will give you a one year credit if you want to do an Air Transport Operations degree, so the course will take two years instead of three, the second year is flight training!

Year 2 of the Air Transport Operations with ATPL degree at City University consists of the ATPL theoretical groundschool. If you have already done this you can do Year 1, which is full-time, and progress direct to Year 3, which is part-time.

[crazy_bird]

oh sweet.
but how is the general ranking and reputation of City University London?
is it worth it??
thanks a lot :)
cheers:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

City is very highly regarded, both in general terms and within aviation. Not quite world leading, but very good.

Regarding degrees - A DEGREE IS NOT A BACKUP. It may support your career, it may help progress into something else, it may develop skills that are very useful: but it is not a specific qualification.

If you want a backup, get a bookkeepers qualification, qualify as a lifeguard, do evening classes at catering college - in other words a specific skill.

Do a degree to enhance you and your career, or for the sheer interest of it. I did a part time PhD years back that I didn't need, but it opened a lot of doors for me - but it built on what I had (and was very interesting and rewarding), not acted as a backup to anything.


Part time makes a lot of sense for anybody who has a "real life", such as flying for an airline or as a flying instructor: if you are very disciplined it can be fitted in well with other activities. If I was looking at that, I'd start by looking at the (UK) Open University, or (US) Embry-Riddle, but there are certainly other organisations worth looking at. Just beware of the "certificate mills", which certainly exist, particularly in the USA, and will just take your money for a worthless piece of paper. Anywhere giving you significant credits for existing experience is probably in this last category.

G

[crazy_bird]

hey, thanks a lot for your time :)
but, you got me confused on one part...about a degree not being a back up
how i see it is,
suppose i am a pilot, but because my medical become invalid or because of some other reason, i am not permitted to fly, then i'll need some solid degree to secure another job...
but what you said about having a specific skill also serving as a back up is also a really good point...
can you pls tell me your view point on this degree thing, cause it would really help if i could see this from all angles...
thanks a lot :)
cheers

[Genghis the Engineer]

This is really down to the difference between education and training.

Education is about the ability to think and understand about a subject, whilst training is about the ability to do something. A degree is an educational qualification, whilst a licence is a training qualification.

So, my degrees in aeronautical engineering are about my ability to think hard about how aeroplanes work. My pilots licences are about my ability to fly an aeroplane well and safely.

It is possible to build on the education that a degree gives you to learn the skills to do a particular job - so in my case, when I first graduated with a degree in engineering, that allowed me to join the graduate training programme of the organisation I went to work for - and a couple of years later, they gave me a real job managing flight trials.

But, if you ONLY have a degree, all you have is a demonstrated ability to think hard about a particular subject: such as engineering, management, environmental science.... Added to a licenced skill - such as a commercial pilot, or as an aircraft design signatory, that can be really useful and help build your career as far as you want to go.

But, the graduate training jobs tend to go to the recent graduates whose "thinking skills" are fresh out of the box, they are unlikely to go to somebody who can't show they've used the education recently.


So, that's why I think that if you want a true backup, get a "licence" - as an accountant, cook, mechanic - whatever you'd enjoy doing and pays the bills. But a degree is something else.

On the other hand, something appropriate to the aviation world: business management, aeronautical engineering, contract law - that degree, added to the existing skill and licence of a pilot, could allow you to grow your career in a different direction (whether you keep your medical or not - after all the skills don't suddenly vanish with your medical). That's almost certainly a good thing, and gives you many more options in your career, but to call it a backup is I think incorrect.

G

[Seabreeze]

Crazy Bird

You can do part-time aviation management qualifications through the University of New South Wales (University of New South Wales - UNSW - Home (http://www.aviation.unsw.edu.au)) where the courses are offered by distance.

Flying qualifications will give you entry to the Graduate Certificate in Aviation Management and then you can work your way up to the Masters degree.

In this way you can keep flying (and earning) while slowly building your back-up plan in aviation management, as I think many other pilots are doing. Try emailing aviationATunsw.edu.au ( replacing AT with @)

Good luck

Seabreeze

[crazy_bird]

hey, thanks a lot man :)
but does anyone know any good institutions that offer a license as well as a degree?