Avient MD11 Bierset EBLG

[Dr-tomagoshi]

Hi all, Does any one have information about the Belgian AOC project for Avient. Based in Bierset with 3-4 Md11.

[hetfield]

Bierset

Sounds good:ok:

[Acid-drop]

I heard this rumour too. It seems that Avient is doing very well since its move to LGG.
All a/c should be OO- registered by the end of this year

Bierset = the village where Liège airport is.
It's like heathrow.

[Fletner007]

Do they hire?

Rgds

[diesel862]

I hear they have a shortage of ops staff now, sounds an unhappy ship.

[reivilo]

Do they hire?

They do. One of our captains is leaving current company to fly for them. He is not type-rated md11.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

diesel - can't see the need for many ops staff when they currently not on OO
Reg?. I heard they wanted a EU Reg and the DFO is ex EAT BRU.
:\

[flying officer kite]

what is the current status of the airline and its fleet? My understanding is they have 1 MD-11, an IL76 somewhere near the South Pole and 3 or 4 DC-10s (ex Das Air?????)

[superspotter]

The IL-76 was WFU last year, time expired frame, stored in Fujairah.

[Acid-drop]

http://www.avient.aero/downloads/BelgianAOC011010.pdf

[Lambrettaman]

Do Avient really have the infrastructure and funding to establish a European AOC ? Satisfying all the Belgian Regs as well as putting their DC10-30F or MD11F on the Belgian register, maintenance, crew licensing, the list goes on and on. It took MK 1-2 years to obtain a British AOC never mind the cost of +£2m. Will Avient make this a reality or is it a stalling game because of questions of a Zimbabwean carrier based in Liegge with management control in UK, principle place of business etc etc ? Even if they could, I doubt very much if they could achieve this by the end of year as per their press release. Let's watch this space :rolleyes:

[four engine jock]

Don’t be such a pessimist. Give them a chance!!!

[Lambrettaman]

Give them a chance ? Andrew Smith ? Why should I ? What's he ever done in the air cargo industry that hasn't been done a hundred times before ? Nothing new, nothing unique, nothing original..........

[Wickerbill]

Give them a chance to run a business and earn a living. What have you got against them Lamberettaman? Pretty vehement comment from you!

[Lambrettaman]

I guess I don't like the way he treats his staff and I don't like the way he conducts his commercial business and unfortunately I have past experience in both areas ! (I had a close friend who worked there for a year in quite a senior position and he said it was the worse year of his life !). Also note diesel862's post above.

[Bob the Dog]

Diesel862 and Lambrettaman are speaking wise words.
I can remember not so long ago that we have been able to read all
about Avient and it's owner here on PPrune. I'm in the airfreight industry
for 25 years and I'm not willing to openly speak about the people in question but I know and seen enough!

[MIGHTY8]

Titanic, more like! 2 ops controllers gone in last month. System of management ,abysmal.Wrong people in wrong jobs.00 register? Dont have enough crews, will always break flight duty limitations.Captains' creative writing course is on the training syllabus(how to write discretionary reports)Beginning of the end.I equate the airline to takeshi's castle,they play at it and bruise the staff!:ugh:

[Acid-drop]

From what I understand from the belgian source info, they will have only 2 MD11 (the second comming in feb11) based in Belgium.
Meaning nothing changes for the 3 DC10.

They want to focus on South america from LGG.

[Binthere]

Any solid information yet on the MD11 they lost about a year ago other than AS telling anyone who will listen that Avient are in the clear and it was all down to guys in the front?:ugh: Over the last few months some very disturbing facts have started to come to the surface about this particular incident and I just wonder if this might turn out to be the biggest cover up since Nixon sent his boys into Watergate.

[707320]

I heard allegations that the aircraft was grossly overloaded, as someone was on the take for getting more load on than was manifested. And as that was done by the cargo builders or handling agents / loaders at Pudong, the Chinese have never published a report.... :ooh:

[Binthere]

It would be very difficult to overload the MD11 without anyone noticing as the weights are displayed on the panel along with the CofG. Most cargo out of China is Volumetric anyway. I wonder who did the loadplanning/trim for this sector?

[WrldWide]

It would be very difficult to overload the MD11 without anyone noticing as the weights are displayed on the panel along with the CofG.
Not sure what panel you are referring to, but, it would be very easy to overload an MD11 without anyone noticing if someone wanted to. Has to do with the power of the pen, or data entry skills of the person creating the load sheet.

[Low life]

What's he ever done in the air cargo industry that hasn't been done a hundred times before ? Nothing new, nothing unique, nothing original
I, possible, beg to differ, although nothing was ever proven.

[liegetrucker]

I, possible, beg to differ, although nothing was ever proven.

The tyrants adventure in the congo as 'Lord of War' is wide & well known in the company. But if you say about it in front of him or his cronies then you are toast. The tyrant thinks he is mother teresa reborn.

... AS telling anyone who will listen that Avient are in the clear and it was all down to guys in the front

This is true. American MD11 capt from accident was sent home in pieces to recover then dropped like hot rock. He get no contact, no money, no help from tyrant other than tyrant wispering rumors to everyone about that it is the crews fault.

System of management ,abysmal.Wrong people in wrong jobs

Wow, you must have been here. But then I guess same at many places.

Captains' creative writing course is on the training syllabus

What this training thing? None of that here. Got no trainers. Write stuff that the tyrant dont like and you are toast. Discretionary report? No such thing at the mickey mouse caa thats on tyrants payroll.

[Binthere]

Are you suggesting that all is not well within the Avient Camp? Given the "family" nature of the company I would have thought that AS would be looking after his people, or does he only look after those that worked for him in his earlier adventures? :rolleyes:

[Dengue_Dude]

This is true. American MD11 capt from accident was sent home in pieces to recover then dropped like hot rock. He get no contact, no money, no help from tyrant other than tyrant wispering rumors to everyone about that it is the crews fault.

When I was there, I was popular as pig**** when I asked whether the crew were covered by insurance - especially when operating into Kabul et al.

I was told 'don't worry, Andrew will look after you' - this is another of the reasons I left. Oddly enough, there was no policy number on that . . .

If the world isn't perceived his way then teddy gets hurled from the cot.

When that aircraft crashed, I wondered to my wife whether the operating crew had dead-headed in (common practice) and also whether the aircraft was overloaded - it was also 'common practice' to 'encourage' the crew to carry as much as was possible (yes I KNOW it's a freighter - but there are limits which are supposed to ensure safety of both crew and those on the ground).

It's a good company not to be in.

[liegetrucker]

Are you suggesting that all is not well within the Avient Camp?

Avient much like being jailed. Many crew want out but need other job first. Many months no jobs so tyrant treat staff like dogs. Now some jobs about so now everyone apply like crazy to go (also many hire help from land of Hot Dog will run home as soon as job come up in yanky doodle land).

Given the "family" nature of the company I would have thought that AS would be looking after his people

Family? A tyrant who got lucky, wife who speak mor like truck driver, HR snob sister who thinks you peasant if you accent not like upper english twit. Some family. Tryrant says he owns employes, and will throw you away when he feels bad. Theres no 'looking after'. Never was never will. You come for your own self, take cash and use tyrant to get what you need, last as long as you can and leave.

[cargobird]

Rumour is that Avient DC10F was grounded in UAE along with some other flakey outfits after saftey audit by GCAA? ;)

[Lambrettaman]

And they hope to get a Belgian AOC, what a complete and utter joke !! :=

[liegetrucker]

And they hope to get a Belgian AOC, what a complete and utter joke !!

Joke on Belgian CAA only. Chief suck up pilot spends life making (copy)paperwork. What is euro AoC anyway? Lots of paper write (copy) the way they want, inspection of workplace with staff behaving and equipment working, huge number of fees, then by magic. AoC.

Tyrant break all rules unter mickey mouse aoc from dark continent. He will break all rules of any aoc. Who will know. All the paper look good. Even old DC10 paper look ok. Just nonlegal parts come from Ford Fiesta. Engineering manager is paperwork artist that couldnot change tyre on car. They say he get to keep for self all cash not spended on fixing planes. But paper look ok when inspect on ramp.

[Dr-tomagoshi]

I heard that there is a delay in the process for an unknow reason, aircraft or Belgian CAA or ?
People who alreday passed the assesment, on hold to sign contract get bored about waiting with no informations.
:suspect::suspect:

[Limburg]

Rumour is that Avient DC10F was grounded in UAE along with some other flakey outfits after saftey audit by GCAA? ;)
Z-ALT passed through Liege today, was this the one grounded @ Sharjah?

[four engine jock]

Liegetrucker
Before you write all this crap maybe you should go back to school and learn how to write in English.
What’s your gripe with these guys?
I don’t think the Belgium CAA will allow anyone to get an AOC from Belgium unless all there things are in order.
Give them a break.
If they make it, great for them!! If they don’t, at least they tried there best.
But before you write anymore in this forum you should seriously learn how to spell.
By the way on a US built aircraft such as a DC10 or MD11 its spelled TIRE on TYRE!!!!!!!!

[Dengue_Dude]

Joke on Belgian CAA only. Chief suck up pilot spends life making (copy)paperwork. What is euro AoC anyway? Lots of paper write (copy) the way they want, inspection of workplace with staff behaving and equipment working, huge number of fees, then by magic. AoC.

Tyrant break all rules unter mickey mouse aoc from dark continent. He will break all rules of any aoc. Who will know. All the paper look good. Even old DC10 paper look ok. Just nonlegal parts come from Ford Fiesta. Engineering manager is paperwork artist that couldnot change tyre on car. They say he get to keep for self all cash not spended on fixing planes. But paper look ok when inspect on ramp.

Might not be the best grammar etc, but this chap KNOWS what he's talking about . . . especially if he's talking about intrascope inspections . . .

[Topswitch]

The phrase "people in glass houses etc" springs to mind -"tried there best"???. And they are tyres regardless of who built the aircraft.

[slowto280]

'their' I agree with, but 'tyres'? doubtful............:rolleyes:

[Binthere]

or 4 engine joke? liegetrucker might not have the best spelling in the world but he knows what he's talking about.......and believe me, that's only the tip of the iceberg. As for 'Give them a break' that is the last thing this outfit needs. This industry has enough problems without the likes of Andrew Smith and Avient making it worse. There are people on this thread who obviously have first hand experience of this outfit and the way it is run and maybe it is time that you and others like you should start to sit up and take notice of what they are saying. Go back and read some of the previous threads about Avient, do a bit of homework, there is no smoke without fire as they say, just in this case what you and a lot of others are seeing is the biggest smokescreen ever produced as they try to 'legitimise' their operation in Belgium. Ask yourself why a Belgium registration? Why not French, after all, he spent a good few years hiding in a little known French airfield. Why not a UK registration? Here is an Englishman, with his operation base in the UK just off the A303.......I could go on but lets face it, the only place in Europe where he could hope to try and get a legitimate registration is going to be Belgium. Why do you think he started life with a Z on his aircraft and not OO in the first place?
Oh, and as a parting comment, if you really want to know more about Avient and still do not believe all you read on here, why not become 'three engine jock' and go see for yourself. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Dengue_Dude]

Well that about covers it . . .

I have only one comment on what YOU wrote . . . correct!

[liegetrucker]

Liegetrucker
Before you write all this crap maybe you should go back to school and learn how to write in English.

Humble apologies. Maybe English not first language. Maybe lack of English skills not important to content.

I don’t think the Belgium CAA will allow anyone to get an AOC from Belgium unless all there things are in order.


BELGIAN (adj. now as petty as you) CAA have no choice but to issue AOC if all criteria met like said in last post. Once issued, you do what you like and only way to tell is by paperwork.

What’s your gripe with these guys?


I work here. Trying to vote with feet and leave. Wait for job.

If they make it, great for them!! If they don’t, at least they tried there best.

Grow up.

But before you write anymore in this forum you should seriously learn how to spell.


Sorry. Will try hard next time.

[Dengue_Dude]

Good man.

Best of luck, it's a good place not to be - as I said up top.

[four engine jock]

liegetrucker
It seems that you have allot of animosity towards these guys.
I do understand that very well. But you’re making things worse for yourself by writing all the Bad things that go on at Avient. If you’re so unhappy there, why stay.
The employees make the airline not the owners. Stand up to them and they will listen. If they don’t, leave.
If you all stand together things can change for the better.( Sometimes)

[411A]

The slight problem is, FEJ, I suspect said employees would rather come here on PPRuNe and whinge about it, rather than actually do something else.
One might call this the CX syndrome.:rolleyes:

[four engine jock]

411A
You’re so right. We see that all time here on PPRUNE.
In the end it’s up to all the crews to stand together to make a better place to work.
If you follow the rules you can’t go wrong. Don’t let the bean counters take control of safety, as they are not the ones flying the aircraft.
But we must remember that there will always be crews that will break the rules.
If you do it once the company will assume it’s you duty to do it all the time.

[Binthere]

Said employees are probably caught between a rock and the proverbial hard place. They got suckered into the job and jumped at the chance of employment only to discover that all was not as it was portrayed. They now find themselves desperate to get out but there is very little work out there in the industry. You do not walk if you have a mortgage and bills to pay and a family to feed unless you have a firm offer of alternative employment. What you see here is guys with a conscience offering up a warning to others who may be tempted into working for this outfit.
"The employees make the airline not the owners. Stand up to them and they will listen."
In this case you could not be further from the truth, but until you have had first hand experience, may I suggest you sit back, listen and learn. :ugh:Stand up to Mr Smith and get shown the exit. Simple as that. It does not matter how much experience you may have or how good you are at your job, things are done his way, nobody else matters. Rules and regulations, they are for other people and that goes for operational procedures, crew duty hours, cargo and Dangerous Goods etc etc.
Things will never get better within Avient, they will continue to operate under Mr Smiths terms and his terms only as he honestly believes he is untouchable and if he ever gets his Belgium AOC it will only compound the issue.
It may appear that these people are just whining about the man they work for, but look at it from a different angle and accept that what they are saying is really a warning to anyone considering getting involved. A quick look at the turnover of staff should convince you of that. So, stop being so quick to criticise, these guys are in the worst possible situation and until they find another job in the real world, give them a little credit for hanging on in there, if only to pay the bills. Continually criticising them and making daft suggestions is not helping them.

[four engine jock]

Binthere
I totally understand what you’re saying. Very true!! A hard position to be in these days. I have been there before myself. I understand they are venting their frustrations here, but this will not prevent guys in dire straits from joining them. When you have to put food on the table we will do whatever it takes.
If they get there AOC in Belgium it would be better for the crews. Belgium has a very strong union culture and they will not be able to get away with things as with a Zim AOC.
I would suggest that crews start laying their complaints with ICAO or to the Belgium CAA by way of confidential reports. Maybe it will help.
I wish all flight crews and ground staff at Avient the very best.