Self sponsored type rating....

[The_green_penguin]

Not wanting to open up this whole debate again (and not being in any way antagonistic!)... but what is the general opinion as regards the future of SSTRs?? Are they here to stay forever more, so if current students have any aspirations to get on to a flight deck of a jet, we're gonna have to pay through the nose to do it?
Or will it perhaps be the case that as the industry starts to get going again and the effects of the recession ease up that the airlines may start paying for, or at least contributing towards type rating/line training??

I am currently midway through my ATPL groundschool (modular) and just looking at a financial plan for the future when it comes to my CPL/IR. I have budgeted enough to complete the course, but it will be a real struggle to endure the costs of a TR as well. :bored:

Just interested in peoples' opinions really. Happy Friday!

[G SXTY]

It's all about supply and demand.

When times are good and the industry is healthy, jobs are relatively plentiful and airlines' bars are set at a correspondingly low level. During recessions, when recruitment is at a virtual standstill, airlines offering the few available jobs can set pretty much whatever terms and conditions they like, knowing they will still get more suitable CVs than they know what to do with. For the more enterprising airlines (or unscrupulous, if you prefer) those terms and conditions include SSTR or pay to fly schemes. These schemes only exist because people are prepared to pay. People are only prepared to pay because they are desperate, and they are desperate largely because there are very few jobs available.

SSTRs have been around for a while, but are always more prominent during recessions. I am thinking of British Midland in the early 1990s, but I'm sure someone can find an earlier example. I doubt they will ever disappear completely, regardless of the health of the industry, as there will always be those who can't find a job any other way and have access to the cash to pay for a type rating or right hand seat. When the economy eventually improves, however, more jobs will be available and fewer people will feel the need to spend another £20k plus on top of their CPL/IR for the privilege of flying a 737. SSTR and P2F schemes will hopefully sink back to a low level – until the next recession.

[INNflight]

I've done the same, modular to fATPL, no money for a SSTR.

Still, even if I would have a spare 30,000 under my pillow, I'd rather do something useful with it and find an employer who pays my TR or at least bonds me.

No desire to pay for one, really.

See it that way:

You can comfortably live off that money for an entire year if your standards are not too high, so why not wait another year and see if you find a better job than at RyanScare & Friends?

[North Pilot]

I hear this argument from a lot of student Pilots. Should or should I not invest in a type rating. Most people i've met seem convinced they have to get one or not at all. Not much inbetweeners.

I know four people who payed for a Type Rating, all four are flying for airlines. Ultimatley made their money back.

I think if it helps you secure a job, im all for it.

[wigwag]

And I know a couple of guys who havent got jobs now after paying for type rating.

Now do they or dont they pay for line training ? One friend payed for a rating after getting confirmed in writing a job on the 737 but that was the old days, the airline isnt operating any longer sadly.

I think if you have the money and are sure you can secure a job then why not. I wish you luck its a lot of money to gamble, but if it pays off then youll be okay for sure.

good luck

ww

[foff]

with a type rating, for sure, you will find a job, provided .... you want to find one
That means to grab any opportunity, including those at 15 000 km from your home and in the meantime calling airlines and sending CVs everyday.
otherwise it is useless to spend that amount except for fun

[Prophead]

I remember back when I was starting my PPL in about 2003. The talk then was all about the new SSTR and how it would drive down T&C's etc. Since then we have had a small recruitment boom in around 2007/08. This did nothing to reduce the SSTR but the banking crises that followed gave us something else to worry about P2F (hey, its aviation so we use abreviations).

P2F has taken the heat off of the SSTR debate as its taking flying training to whole new levels. IMO SSTR is here to stay. I really don't think the ratio between jobs and wannabes will ever enable us to see the end of SSTR. There is a difference though, there is a big difference between doing an SSTR with a job at the end and being bonded and doing it in the hope that you will find a job afterwards. What does a 737/A320 TR with no hours give you when the chance of a job on an ATR comes up. Are you really going to go to an interview and try to convince to interviewer that your not going to rush off to a jet job as soon as it comes up when you chose to do a jet TR?

The other problem with SSTR is it doesnt affect the T&C's of the senior FO's and Captains. P2F is and will, continue to bring down T&C's of those above. Its looking like the USA are going to go with the idea of 1500 FO's. We will now see the 0 - 1500 hour courses coming up. How long until we get CTC or Oxford offering a 0 to ATPL (Not fATPL) course. This has a knock on effect which will bring down the T&C's of pilots at all levels. If a junior FO at an airline was earning £30,000 a SFO £45,000 and a cptain £65,000 the when the junior FO is suddenly PAYING £20,000 the other levels will drop accordingly. I think and hope that soon BALPA will step in and try to put a stop to P2F before it makes even more of a mockery of this whole proffession. SSTR however doesnt have any affect on those already employed and on the line so who will put a stop to it.

The whole thing has been about moving the risk from the airlines to the individual. This is the reason we have anything other than full sponsorship. I for one would hate to see a return to all sponsored pilot training. That would be the end of the 30 year old experineced pilot making his way to the airlines. Only 22 year old with a aerospace degrees would be getting the jobs. How much we pay though depends on the strength of the market and the apathy of the experienced pilots.