Advice requested from all A/C Engineers

[kel247]

Hi All,

I am after some advice. I am currently in the RAF and looking to leave in 2 years 7 months time, to be exact!. I want to start a Career in Aircraft Mechanical Engineering when i leave. My job in the mob is not really engineering based (I work as a Survival Equipment Fitter, liferafts, flying equipment e.t.c), however I have been studying like a mad man for the last few years. I have obtained an NC in Mechanical Engineering and I am in the process of completeing a HNC and HND in Aerospace Engineering. I have also completed a Level 3 Modern Apprenticeship in "Aviation". So to that end I would like to know what options I have in order to make a career A/C engineering, I have looked into studying for a Part 66 A licsence which I hope to start once iI finish the HND. Here are some questions you may be able to help me with:

1. Will starting to work through the Part 66 A licsence benifit myself?
2. Will my lack of spannering cause major problems (I have some exsperience working on old piston engined A/C and I use tools T/Mec e.t.c every day)
3. What would be a good route into the Industry around the Manchester area (I have looked at Monarch).
4. Am i wasting my time!!

Thanks in advance,

Kel.

[EGT Redline]

1. Will starting to work through the Part 66 A licsence benifit myself?

Most definitely. Employers like people who are pro-active. Going out of your way to get the modules will greatly help your cause. If you can complete all the examinations prior to leaving then even better. Get the RAF to pay for exam fees (you can use the yearly SLC for this) and save your ELC's to pay for a few courses for the bigger modules if needed. Whilst you are employed in an aviation environment, strictly speaking you do not actually work on aircraft. To this end you will be classed as a "self starter". This basically means that you will need to demonstrate a minimum of 3 years hands-on maintenance experience after leaving the RAF to meet the requirements for the category 'A' licence issue.

2. Will my lack of spannering cause major problems (I have some exsperience working on old piston engined A/C and I use tools T/Mec e.t.c every day)

If I were in your shoes I would get myself a logbook and start making a few friends on the squadrons around your camp. You could offer your services for a few hours after work or on days off. I'm sure they would not object to you shadowing somebody around whilst observing tasks. Keep it simple to start with (basic stuff like servicings, oil replenishments etc.) and work up from there. Log every single job you do no matter how trivial. This will almost certainly benefit you when you start to apply for jobs as you will be able to prove that you have actually worked on live aircraft. If you cannot show evidence of this and back it up with a technical understanding at interview stage you will struggle to find employment I'm afraid.

3. What would be a good route into the Industry around the Manchester area (I have looked at Monarch).

This is one of the biggest mistakes ex-forces guys make. They think it will be possible to find suitable employment right on their doorstep (I take it you live around Manchester?). You will need to be very flexible and must be prepared to go where the work is to begin with. As and when you've got some relevant experience and qualifications can you start to become a bit more selective about where and for whom you work. As stated in my response to the previous question, the likes of Monarch, Thomas Cook, First Choice etc. will not entertain somebody who has never worked on aircraft. The onus is on you to get the required experience. If this means you have to sacrifice some of your free time in the RAF to get this then so be it. You've got over 2 years left to do so make the most of it whilst you can.

4. Am i wasting my time!!

Not at all. If you want something bad enough then you will eventually realise your dream. It isn't going to be easy and you must expect one or two setbacks along the way but stick with it and you will get there in the end. Ignore the doom and gloom merchants who say the industry is finished and you should look at doing something else. A career as an aircraft maintenance engineer is still very rewarding and if you get the right qualifications it can pay extremely well too.

[spannersatcx]

Will my lack of spannering cause major problems
Yes it will as you require hands on experience, see ELGD document here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/177/8355%20Section%20C_07.pdf)

Category A applicants who have not successfully completed a Part-147 approved course of training, should have at least 3 years practical maintenance experience on operating aircraft.

Why bother with an A licence, they come free with a B licence:eek:, if you have all the things you say, you would probably get some exemptions, you'll have to ask the CAA, if you are going to study and spend all that money on exams etc, it won't take much more effort to get a B,

[kel247]

Thanks for the reply EGT.

I have already looked into working with the guys on the squadrons and they seem happy to allow me to do this, also their is a civil police Helicopter based at RAF Benson so I think it will be a good idea to have a chat with the guys there too (the A/C is non military so I take it that would be more desirable). You mentioned starting a log book, will this need to be an official document?, I take it I can get a chief to sign anything off or will it need to be a Jengo/Sengo?.

I will be moving to the Manchester area, as the boss (the wife) is from that area! But with luck rater than judgment there seems to be a lot of aircraft industry around that area.

Also at Benson we have fleets of Merlins/Pumas will these A/C still count as hands on?, although i suppose spannering is spannering?

Cheers :ok:

[kel247]

Thanks for the links and advice guys much appreciated the more the better! I am hoping to get as much info as possible....

[Alber Ratman]

Your S.E. experience would make you a prefect canidate as a trimmer in the industry.. I know quite a few that have made the jump. However none of your RAF experience will cut across for the "A" or "B" licence.. 3 years or 5 years in a 145 enviroment ..

[Saint Jack]

kel247: Some excellent advice here which should get you started along what is going to be a rather long and occasionally bumpy path - but the rewards will be well worth the effort.

I would only add that you should be a little careful if you choose to take the advice from 'ASFKAP', i.e. "Have you had a look on Airmech.co.uk?" I am of the opinion that this website does indeed have some useful topics, especially for a person at a stage in their carrer such as yourself, but it is riddled with puerile nonsense from two individuals in particular, 'Obi-wan Kenobi' and Billy No Mates' (how apt) who's single word postings are way beyond inane. To think you have to pay a fee to join this website is, to me, absurd.

However, to balance this opinion, I must add that there are some extremely articulate and helpful postings, often from the gentleman immediately above.

Opps! Sorry for the thread drift but I had to get that off my chest.......

[spannersatcx]

I will be moving to the Manchester area, as the boss (the wife) is from that area! But with luck rater than judgment there seems to be a lot of aircraft industry around that area.


That may be so but in recent years it has been hit by closures/redundancies/mergers etc, and there is very little on offer up there.

Benson is within spitting distance of LHR, I would seriously consider that option.

[Alber Ratman]

I wouldn't touch a military contract with a barge pole.. Reckon a lot of ex forces guys in those posts are going to get a shock fairly soon.. Then again needs must..

Every Forum has its :mad:..

[Krystal n chips]

With the best will in the world, and all of the sage advice on here, I would seriously look at a workshops based role when you leave the RAF. And if you are leaving in about 2.5years time, forget Manchester as Woodford will be closing then and that's about another 650 guys on the market, albeit from a variety of disciplines. There's not much around anymore in that part of the world I can assure you.

The chances of getting near a civ.police helicopter are, I would imagine, about zero. As for the Sqdns, well that may be feasible, but have a word with the training cell who may be able to help..you never know.

If you want some practical experience, why not visit the GSA Centre at Halton....be honest, tell them why and what you are there for and they may let you work under supervision on the light a/c and glider fleet..it's a long shot of course, but there again.

Being a trimmer is not a bad option ( excludes changing seat covers and galley floors ) and if you can get some experience and move into one of the more prestigious organisations, your skills will be appreciated.

Above all, you have to be flexible in terms of expectations....the industry is in a very deep recession at present and it's not going to improve for a long time.....and also location.. not forgetting your willingness to be mobile....plus try and think outside the airline game....GA / Biz / Corporate / product support to name but a few options.

[Rigga]

Benson is also a very small distance from Kiddlington (or is it London Oxford Airport nowadays?) where several small and medium operators and a major importer and military contractor operate from.

Worth a visit and/or a chat.

Good luck mate

[NutLoose]

kel247 first off I wish you well in your quest, I am an ex RAF sootie and I am a licenced engineer, lot of home study but I got them :)

Ok the log book they are talking about is

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP741.PDF

CAP 741 Aircraft Maintenance Engineers Log Book - Issue 2, 2008 (http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1195828&Action=Book&From=SearchResults&ProductID=9780117920736)

when I did my licences they were ( and still are partly the CAA ones ) I do not know the current dipensation they give for ex forces personal, but bay work never used to count, so I would try as suggested by you and others to help out on line work if you can, Is there any courses you can get on as part of your resettlement? the Engineering guide listed should have some valuable pointers.......... ask any questions you have and we will try to help out :ok:

[simflea404]

kel247

You have managed to get an ONC and on the way to an HND...why not go all the way and get a BSc? That is the route I chose after leaving the RAF (I was triple trade avionics and all my years were on the line/hangar...but the licences were too expensive to obtain in Civvy Street).

I will never regret going to Uni rather than going for the licences. Opened a lot of doors that other routes cannot.

[kel247]

Thanks for all the great advice guys, you have all helped me out :ok:
I am going to be a very busy man for the next 2 years, even more so due to the fact I have been "Dicked" to go to the Falklands next year for 4 months :eek: great times, not....

Thanks again guys much appreciated.

[Karl Bamforth]

If you are close to Benson, go and see the guys that operate the UAS/AEF aircraft. Speak to Stephen C.

Telling them I sent you should help, but might not LOL. :ok:

[Alber Ratman]

4 months at MPI is a perfect time to get educated. I did 4 months at Basrah and got one year of my BSC in aviation maintenance done + Modules 6,8,15 and 17 out of the way.. In between the Charge of the Knights and countless rocket attacks..:ooh:

[kel247]

Karl,

I rang the guys over at UAS (VT Aerospace) and I was informed that I would not be able to offer my sevices (free labour) due to "Insurance implications".......:ugh:. However I am going to email the guys at Oxford, Eurocopter and Airmed, hopefully they will appreciate a guy willing to give up his spare time for free!!

[hoodyski]

I was an RAF Armourer, self studied and passed 5 modules, PVR'd and applied for everything I could. I was given a shot by a small operator and have been through redundancy, contracting, unemployment and a different field since then. I have now completed all my modules and am 8 months away from my licence (I need 3 years experience according to the caa) having just secured employment again on aircraft.

So my advice is get as many modules done as possible and be prepared to work your way up. Aircraft engineering is very difficult to get into at the moment but you can succeed if you work hard. I have met a car mechanic and a storeman who are both now licenced. Best of luck.

[Alber Ratman]

I'm not surprised Hoodyski that the CAA said 3 three years. They have treated you as a skilled entrant, but of course armourers can't really say they have much common aircraft maintenance skills when the only common crossover is fire bottle squibs in reallity. Good effort in getting the exams mate. It is true many others have jumped across from different facets of engineering and done well.. Laws of physics are the same..;)

My QM said 3 three years in my case. Possibly true because I did a lot of out of trade stuff in my later years. really that is pretty bollox and others have said the same. Inmaterial at the mo as my lot aren't recruiting Techs and nor are many others. Thus type courses aren't flowing either. Nor interest in helping me get the missing experience. fact of life.

[kel247]

Thanks for all of the informative posts guys well appreciated, I am off to Monarch in a couple of weeks to have a look around the workshops and chat to some of the guys in the "field", so hopefully the trip will give me a better insight into the industry. I may have a few more questions on my return....:ok:

[kel247]

I visited Monarchs maintenance hanger last week and had a cracking day touring the hanger and A/C. I got some first rate info too, I was told my best option to get a start in the industry is to finish my HND and then concentrate on working through the A licsence modules and pass as many as possible, and along the way get my Log book filled out with as many tasks as possible. Then I may have a shot at starting as a mech.... from what I can ascertain qaulifications (HND, Degree) are nothing unless you want management roles, I want to turn spanners not shuffle paperwork!!:8

[Alber Ratman]

Do NOT do the "A" Modules.. Do the "B"!! "A" modules are worthless if you work in base maintenance and you can get the "A" licence with the "B" modules.. You have been told a pile of :mad: on that one..

A lot of guys with the "A" licence, stuck on base MROs will back me up on that one..

[NutLoose]

Do NOT do the "A" Modules.. Do the "B"!! "A" modules are worthless if you work in base maintenance and you can get the "A" licence with the "B" modules.. You have been told a pile of http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif on that one..

A lot of guys with the "A" licence, stuck on base MROs will back me up on that one..


Agreed, and the "B" will give you the "A" anyways.

[Alber Ratman]

Yeah Nutloose, just that the guy can apply after 3 years for the "A" as mentioned beforehand!:ok:

[coldbuffer]

And learn to spell Hangar ;)

[kel247]

Coldbuffer,
Sorry for that small error you must be looking very closely at my posts. Have you got any advice for me after my spelling lesson? :rolleyes:

[forget]

Sorry for that small error

'Small error' you call it. Spelling hangar hanger is a hangering offence. Ask yourself, would you hire an aviation guy who couldn't spell hangar?

Don't do it again.



PS. I'll bet you don't. ;)

[itsresidualmate]

I know personally managers that will bin a CV if they come across 'hangar' spelt incorrectly, they view it as attention to detail!

Quite right about the 'B' licence advice. If you want to turn spanners, the A licence, HNDs, HNCs, etc are a complete waste of time in my experience. Concentrate all your efforts on the B licence. I'm starting to come across a fair few contracts that only want B1/B2 licences as opposed to a B1, so please don't bother with the A licence.
For mech jobs you'll be competing with experienced civvy mechs, their CVs will be littered with experience on civvy jets, an HND just won't cut the mustard up against that. Now if your CV says you've passed a few B licence modules and you're on your way to a useful B licence, then that'll carry weight.

[ivor toolbox]

As one who's been there /done that...best advice I can give
is get your B1 modules done; and work on as much experience as possible;
yes, as mentioned above, give up a few weekends; leave days etc.

BTW, 6 months is a long time in civvy avaition, the 2.5 yrs you have left
is like an eternity..most operators only plan as far as the next 'season'

ttfn

[coldbuffer]

Kel247

After my tip on spelling :), i suggest it would be wise to learn to read - Engineering drawings that is

[Chock Chucker]

Hey Guys,

Am looking for LAME work at present & some contacts would be greatly appreciated. preferably line work. Vietnam is where I hope to end up as my girlfriend lives their & i like it their also but South pacific, middle east or other parts of Asia would be great also.

I'm CASA Australian licenced on B767-200/300 Airframe & GE CF6 (series) on B767 Engine.

Have completed full mechanical type courses on below aircraft type & was wondering also if anyone can give me some advice on obtaining PCT (practical consolidated training) to obtain the licences or how i can convert these type courses to Licences without having to go through the SSSSLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW CASA Australian SOE (schedule of experience) route.:ugh: Yes i am banging my head against a brick wall at present. SOMEBODY HELP PLEASE !

B737-300/400 + CFM 56-3
B737-600/700/800/900/BBJ + CFM 56-7
CASA A319/320/321 + CFM 56-5 + V2500
EASA B1.1 A318/319/320/321 + CFM 56-5 + V2500

Any contacts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!