View Full Version : Single pilot airline ops

9th Sep 2010, 02:08
Just saw this on line :ugh:

Budget airline Ryanair considers single-pilot flights

From: NewsCore
September 09, 2010 10:52AMFrom different corners of the aviation world, there is chatter about the possibility of single-pilot airline flights, The Wall Street Journal reported overnight.
Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer is looking to provide single-pilot operation for commercial passenger jets in the 2020-2025 time frame.

By 2020, Embraer said, air-traffic control will be modernised in both the US and in Europe, and new technology will make the possible of one-person cockpits feasible. Whether it will be acceptable to the flying public is a different question, Embraer noted.
And Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary said he is going to ask regulators for permission to staff flights on his Irish airline with only one pilot - a big money-saving move.
Mr O'Leary told Bloomberg Businessweek that he does not think co-pilots are necessary on passenger planes.
"Why does every plane have two pilots? Really, you only need one pilot," Mr O'Leary said. "Let's take out the second pilot. Let the bloody computer fly it."
He suggested that in case of emergency a fight attendant on each plane could be trained to help with landing.
"If the pilot has an emergency, he rings the bell, he calls her in," O'Leary says. "She could take over."
There was outrage last year when the budget airline announced they were considering installing coin slots on toilet doors.
The airline was also criticised for charging passengers for making credit-card bookings, checking-in and putting extra luggage in the hold.
Mr O'Leary has also previously suggested "standing-only" flights.

9th Sep 2010, 03:19
So does that mean the flight attendents get paid and F/O salary then? And they'll have to have a CPL and an endorsement on type and meet recency requirements...

What a f:mad:kwit!

Capt Kremin
9th Sep 2010, 04:13
Michael O'Leary is merely exhibiting the average knowledge of what pilots do that most expensively educated Airline managements currently have.

I doubt any flight attendants are taking the suggestion seriously either.

9th Sep 2010, 04:18
Mr O'Leary, two pilots are needed for airline operations, to be sure, to be sure! :ok:

9th Sep 2010, 04:26
why do we respond to this rubbish- it only encourages him. :ugh:

BUT... give the number of flight attendants is mandated (actually so is the number of flight crew) by various CAA's as a per passenger ratio- what happens when the cabin crew/pilot gets called to the cockpit- now you don't meet the cabin crew rules! oops. :(

Oh well I suppose you could nominate one of the passengers at random or possibly select frequent flyers to undertake emergency cabin crew training so they could then step in to fill the vacency. :E

In fact you could charge enthusists to do the training and give them free flights- no wait - refunds IF they get called upon, or even better charge them for the privelage! :ok: sorted.

Whats' this topic got to do with D&G anyway? :hmm:

9th Sep 2010, 04:38
I'm fascinated by the stereotypical use by O'Leary of "he" for pilots and "she" for flight attendants. Straight out of the 50's. I wonder if he gets a rap on the knuckles from HR or if they just roll their eyes and go after easier targets.

Diving into the bunker.

9th Sep 2010, 04:52
Me thinks that the Insurance Companies might have the final say......

Somewhere in the insurance policy will be something along the lines of "...aircraft to be operated in accordance with the approved flight manual ....."

Also, the TCDS A16WE which covers all the B737 series it has the following included for all series "Airplane operation must be in accordance with the FAA Approved AFM".

Somewhere in the AFM (don't have one to hand at the moment) it will state the normal operating crew compliment....shoud be 2.

Therefore, for Mr O'Leary to operate with one crew, he will be operating not in accordance with the AFM, and not in accordance with the TCDS, and therefore invalidating all his insurance policies......not a very wise business decision.......if he wants to do it he has to change the FAA's mind.....not an easy thing to do.

But don't let that get in the way of his plans...........

9th Sep 2010, 05:06
I think you have missed the guts of the post.
1. Embraer design and build single pilot aircraft.
2. The local authorities revise the "rules" to allow single pilot ops under certain circumstances.
3. The major concern for pax is the single pilot being incapacitated and some one else "monitoring" the aircraft systems, I.e. A flight attendant.

Don't laugh though, it's not that far off. Aircraft can already fly with out pilots. The job of a single pilot on an aircraft won't be to fly it as we do now, it will be System man agent only, UNLESS there is a malfunction.
If the pilot has a " malfuncrtion" i suspect what O'leary is thinking, and I agree the mans a complete fool, is that they will train a flight attendant to jump in and monitor the systems.

That's the funny part, imagining a cart tart, galley hag having sufficient system knowledge through months of study to jump in and take over, and all for 20k a yr, today we call that person an F/Oa year.:8

The The
9th Sep 2010, 05:16
This is such a silly idea Mr O'Leary!

You could save a heap more money by getting rid of all the flight attendants and then just have the CPT and F/O do the cabin service, err cabin sales, collect the pay per go loo service fee etc. The autopilot will look after the flying in the cruise - no problem!

9th Sep 2010, 05:26
I think Captain Eric Moody summed it up pretty much.....

"Any pilot could do Michael O'Leary's job tomorrow morning but Michael O'Leary couldn't go to work as a pilot"

9th Sep 2010, 05:41
A simple Google search showed at least 20 total incapacitation's of one of the pilots, whereas the other pilot took over and saved the day. With a fortified cockpit, if the one and only pilot decides to cark it, what happens then? The airline that I fly for, the door can only be opened from INSIDE the cockpit. :eek:

9th Sep 2010, 06:16
The single pilot airliner is inevitable. Just as the two pilot airliner was.

If PPRUNE was around in the sixties, you could have found a thread just like this one - but that thread would have been about cutting the flight deck down to two pilots!

To those harping on about endorsements and regulations: the rules (and the aircraft) will be changed to suit.

Captain Dart
9th Sep 2010, 06:20
As I've stated on another thread, MOL believes in the saying 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'. He deliberately makes these ridiculous statements, carefully timed, so that he and his company are 'in the news' constantly, for free.

Some I remember include 'charging for use of the aircraft toilets', Ryanair staff to nick free pens from hotels (saving company money), recently 'stand up cabins' to accommodate more passengers, and now 'single pilot airliners'.

The man may be a tw-t, but he's not a stupid tw-t.

Incidentally, a recent 'Flight' magazine included an article about Embraer's study on potential highly-automated, single-pilot cockpits...

9th Sep 2010, 06:25
And Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary said he is going to ask regulators for permission to staff flights on his Irish airline with only one pilot - a big money-saving move.

So, it's obviously not a SAFETY move...

Profits before lives; we all know where that ends up.

9th Sep 2010, 06:38
I agree. The technology is available now to have pilotless aircraft. In fact in the military these are in use as spy aircraft already,and better,larger types are on the drawing board right now.
Ofcourse no passenger would fly without someone being up front nor would any regulator allow it,or should they,but the fact remains it could be done. Single pilot ops are a certainty one day in my view. Maybe not in 10 or 20years but it is coming. Computers will do all the work and the pilot will only be there in case of emergencies or other malfunction.
If you want to an example just look at the latest trains such as the Magna train in Shanghai. All run by computer with one driver riding shotgun for safety.
Just as the Flight engineer dissappeared so will the second pilot.

Capt Kremin
9th Sep 2010, 07:06
Those aircraft aren't pilotless. Don't confuse unmanned with pilotless. and you wouldn't believe their loss rate..with a fully qualified air force pilot flying them.

Mr. Hat
9th Sep 2010, 08:13
Fancy Embraer of all companies chiming in with this rubbish. Their airplanes don't even fly with two pilots. They should concentrate on their reliability first and come up with stupid innovations later.


9th Sep 2010, 08:18
The Australian ran this story too.

Co-pilots are unnecessary - Ryanair's Michael O'Leary says | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/travel/news/co-pilots-are-unnecessary-ryanair-boss-michael-oleary/story-e6frg8ro-1225914669955)

We once had a flight attendant claim the CSM should be second in charge of the aircraft with FO 3rd in charge. When asked how she would handle an engine failure with an incapacitated captain, she quickly withdrew her statement.

Mr. Hat
9th Sep 2010, 08:29
We once had a flight attendant

Once? Thats not bad. This is basically every CSM where I work.

I thank god for my ipod so I don't have to listen to their rubbish on the crew bus.

kiwi grey
9th Sep 2010, 08:51
"In the future, the flight crew for an airliner will be one pilot and one dog.
The pilot will be there to feed the dog, and the dog will be there to bite the pilot if he tries to play with any of the shiny buttons or levers in the cockpit"

I think that was from Uncle Roger, a long time ago :\

9th Sep 2010, 08:58
Perhaps if the likes of O'Leary just get people to buy a ticket and not have them turn to the airport at all it might just save a lot of time (and useless threads)

Much Ado
9th Sep 2010, 09:26
That would be 3 times a thread has been started, and locked, based on the rantings of this moron.