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SpringHeeledJack
1st Sep 2010, 15:21
This is a subject that gets my goat frequently. Although i drive irregularly, i have also experienced it when being driven in taxis, on buses, on a bicycle.

You have right of way and yet others seem to ignore this fact and drive towards you often on the wrong side of the road and then no acknowledgement of thanks or any other gratitude expressed. The lack of courtesy i can live with, this world we live in has long lost it's manners, but the danger that such behaviour brings both you and others is not minimal. There is a, busy at times, road near my abode that has speed humps, (those ones with gaps in them for motorbikes and bicycles), whose purpose is to slow motorists down to 30mph (50km/h). The daily reality is that many drivers drive half over the wrong side of the road so as to be able to reduce damage to their suspensions and go faster. Many is the almost collision and much anger and spleen venting. Don't the transgressors know that if there's an accident they will be wholly liable, perhaps criminally if god forbid someone is killed.

Situations where cars are parked on only one side of a road are ripe for giving way/taking way disagreements, yet they seem to be more commonplace these days. I was always taught in the above situation to wait until the oncoming traffic had passed to pull out and go on my way. If any kind soul allows me to have priority (where i don't have it) i always indicate thanks, yet it seldom comes back. Worst offenders in my experience are 'white van man' and mums in 4x4s with their own little darlings in the rear, both these groups seem to have an extraordinary aggressive stance on the road these days.

No man is an island, tell me i'm not :{



SHJ

Sallyann1234
1st Sep 2010, 16:22
It's not restricted to roads. The same thing happens on pavements when mums with children allow them to spread across the path forcing others to walk in the road.
It's just part of the general selfishness and bad manners that seems endemic these days.

Storminnorm
1st Sep 2010, 16:25
It used to be bad in Woolworths.
No wonder they closed down.

Nigd3
1st Sep 2010, 16:39
We moved over to Canada last year and came across the novel junctions where all entries were on STOP signs.
The rule is that the driver first at his stop sign has precedence, then the next etc etc. I had my serious doubts as to how this would work, being brought up in the UK but I have been very suprised as to the majority of people sticking to these rules. If I have simultaneously pulled to the junction at the same time as another car, quite often they signal me to go first.

Still in shock at the manners drivers have at these junctions, especially when you see how they drive on the highways in Quebec (just a fraction better than the lunatics in Riyadh).

larssnowpharter
1st Sep 2010, 17:20
I have to sat that the driving in Canada and the good sense and manners generally in use by most of the motorists there makes it a country in which it is pleasant to drive.


Still in shock at the manners drivers have at these junctions, especially when you see how they drive on the highways in Quebec (just a fraction better than the lunatics in Riyadh).
Today 17:25

Well, are not those people in Quebec still foreigners? I mean, you give them driving licences?

Could not agree more re driving in KSa and GCC staes. Highest death rate on the roads in the World. People who haven't lived here and seen it would not believe it.

Ancient Observer
1st Sep 2010, 17:29
For really interesting driving, Calcutta is worth a visit. The basic rule seems to be the biggest thing wins.
Never mind courtesy/whose side of the road and all that rubbish.

There is a clear hierarchy of lorries - buses - smaller lorries -small buses - Mercs - Ambassadors - nasty local jap designs - tuk-tuks - bikes - anything else.
The only transport that trumps that hierarchy is the cow, but it's not often used for transport.

BOAC
1st Sep 2010, 17:30
The same thing happens on pavements when mums with children allow them to spread across the path forcing others to walk in the road. - a few years ago when I used to stop over in mainland European cities I developed a new game I called 'EuroSkittles' to cope with the appalling inconsiderate pavement behaviour of the residents - it involved NOT stepping out of the way when family of locals (often fat) was stretched right across the pavement, but walking steadfastly on, in a 'British' sort of stoic manner, braced for impact, and scoring points for the various hits, the top award being for knocking a little brat(chen) over. Great fun. Never tried it with cars, though.:)

Ancient Mariner
1st Sep 2010, 17:32
I frequently drive on roads here in Vikingland that are barely wide enough for one car. Common courtesy is that the smallest car back up provided that the road allows it, cars with trailers are of course allowed right of way and so are, eh...females. The driver given right of way salutes the other who salutes back. Simples.
Same thing with overtaking on these roads, you prefer less than max allowed speed, a car catches up with you, you pull over when you find a good spot, all's well.
Per

con-pilot
1st Sep 2010, 17:37
Try driving in any major city in China. :p

beaufort1
1st Sep 2010, 17:54
We have a system not unlike that in Canada as described above. This is a filter in turn system, works generally quite well although us locals have to keep an eye out for grockles in 'horror' cars. :} These are hire cars easily identified by a yellow rectangular stick on badge and a black letter H imposed on it.


Filter in turn system
Some junctions have filter in turn on a sign and painted on the road. Approach these with care! At these junctions all directions have equal priority.
You must only enter the junction in turn with other vehicles. These are also usually box junctions, so you must not enter the box unless your exit is clear.

SpringHeeledJack
1st Sep 2010, 18:03
Isn't that the thing though, there are many countries where the rule of the jungle applies and yet this very 'rule' and abidance allows traffic to flow with some fluidity and IMHO the drivers in said countries seem less aggressive and/or stressed than in the UK (in my examples). In Europe, Italy has the most gloriously disorganized driving, yet once you adapt to it, it makes sense and is VERY 'give and take'. Germany, as an example is very rigid in it's road rules and adherence and.....it works. If you have 'vorfahrt' then you have it and the others who do not, wait, end of. It just seems that in the UK, as an example there is a rule system that some obey and others ignore. Btw one isn't a goody two shoes slavish rule follower just for the sake of them, but when dangerous objects are being thrown about by non-experts it takes on a different perspective.



SHJ

Rossian
1st Sep 2010, 20:10
...once in Tofino on Vancouver Island Mrs Rossian noticed the one 4-way stop and asked "How does this work?"
As we were passing the RCMP office I suggested she went and asked at the horse's mouth and not my garbled version of it.
The nice lady explained in detail to Mrs R, with all possible variations and penalties, then undermined it all by adding in conclusion "Of course depending on how much you've had to drink on Sat night none of the above may apply". I quite liked Tofino, but there were some strange folks there (especially waiting for the liquor store to open).

The Ancient Mariner

pineridge
1st Sep 2010, 20:11
Ancient Mariner said......................




"I frequently drive on roads here in Vikingland that are barely wide enough for one car. Common courtesy is that the smallest car back up provided that the road allows it, cars with trailers are of course allowed right of way and so are, eh...females. The driver given right of way salutes the other who salutes back. Simples.
Same thing with overtaking on these roads, you prefer less than max allowed speed, a car catches up with you, you pull over when you find a good spot, all's well."


Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Good one, Per.

G-CPTN
1st Sep 2010, 23:37
I once had to follow a motorist for forty miles along a single-track (with passing places) road in Scotland. There was absolutely no way that he was willing to allow me to pass or to increase his trundling speed . . . :ugh:

Firestorm
2nd Sep 2010, 07:40
The thing that really gets my goat, and exposes the lack of situational awareness of so many road users is when you are for example waiting to turn right off a main road (this is a British example) , and succession of cars pass you on the other side. You wait patiently, and see that there is a large gap in the traffic several cars away. The traffic continues past in orderly fashion, and then the very last car in the queue stops in an otherwise open road to let you turn. Why FFS? There is a million yards of space behind you t%^t! Look in you bl&&dy mirrors, and switch on! And they flash their lights at you in an impatient manner.

Ancient Mariner
2nd Sep 2010, 08:04
Pineridge, just checking who the real Vikings are.;)
I drive almost every weekend to and from our cabin on the Valebø road between Skien and Notodden and this is actually normal behavior, same thing with the old Svineroi near Rjukan before they widened the road last year. Common courtesy is not entirely dead here.....yet.
Per

27mm
2nd Sep 2010, 12:36
Instances of lack of courtesy commonly occur here in Norfolk on single-track lanes, where folks in their 4x4s could easily move onto the verge, but don't, in case they get them dirty, I guess....

Storminnorm
2nd Sep 2010, 13:24
I just NEVER drive round in the sticks. Too risky by far.
Stick to the main roads and Motorways I reckon.
(Except when I go to Cornwall, There's no choice there.)
How the Daughter manages with her huge great horsebox
I don't know.
People do, generally, get out of the way when they see it coming.

MagnusP
2nd Sep 2010, 13:33
27mm: Cars? In Norfolk? When did that start? :p

27mm
2nd Sep 2010, 17:24
Shortly after we burned the Wicker Man.....

Sallyann1234
2nd Sep 2010, 20:11
Fire? In Norfolk? When did that start? :)

Sir George Cayley
2nd Sep 2010, 21:46
It's all normal for Norfolk folk;)

I liked Count Quentulas phrase whilst driving a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud S3..

"Get out of my way, I'm coming through" Class.

Sir George Cayley

Keef
2nd Sep 2010, 22:17
It's patchy.

In Essex, there's a narrow bridge over the river at Battlesbridge. Cars heading north have priority over those heading south (so the signs say).

A while ago, I was half way over the bridge going north when a Rolls Royce drove straight past the "stop" line and up the bridge.. The driver then signalled by gesture that I should reverse out of his way.

Being me and not in a hurry, I turned off the engine, put on the parking brake, and got out a book. Flummoxed Rolls driver got out of his car and came over to shout at me to get out of his <expletive deleted> way. I explained that "traffic coming from opposite direction has priority" means "even over Rolls Royces" and that I had plenty of time and was happy to wait while he found where reverse gear is.

He turned bright red but reversed back off the bridge, whereupon I calmly put my book down and drove on.

His passengers were grinning as I passed.

ShyTorque
3rd Sep 2010, 00:05
A recent gripe of mine is incorrect lane discipline and indicator use on roundabouts, one local one in particular, with 5 exits. I have been cut up a couple of times by drivers approaching the roundabout in the left hand lane (marked turn left at exit 1 or 2 by white arrows on the road) but actually turning right to "exit 3" or even "exit 4" without indicating and crossing the lane markers. This puts them continuing round across the "straight ahead" exit 3 in the left lane, cutting across the car alongside in the right hand lane, which is correctly placed to turn off at "exit 3" and continue straight ahead. The two cars then converge, usually with the errant driver in the left lane being totally oblivious about what they are doing!

It's by no means uncommon to see three drivers making the same manoeuvre but using their indicators in three completely different ways. I have no idea why this is but it's definitely a recent trend.

Runaround Valve
3rd Sep 2010, 03:49
Try driving in the Australian Outback in the middle of a dirt road or on a road that has a strip of tar wide as one vehicle.
The unwritten rule is that the bigger vehicle has right of way down the middle or on the tar. When confronted with an approaching road train doing 100 kilometres per hour, then you smartly get out of his way.
The road train is not going to get out of your way.

ExSp33db1rd
3rd Sep 2010, 05:40
keef ........

We had a local one-way bridge, now by-passed, and one red-necked Kiwi farmer driving a beat-up old Land Rover finally got fed up of waiting and slowly advanced to the middle of the bridge, engaged 4-wheel drive, low gear, and slowly pushed the opposing vehicle back from whence it had come.

One night I was late for whatever I was driving to, and not exactly full of the milk of human kindness either – it happens – and as I approached the bridge noted a car approaching from the opposite direction, but I was on the priority side, and was there first anyway, so had no thoughts about not taking my right of way.

In the middle of the bridge the woman driver in the opposing car suggested that she had the right of way because "I have the red arrow". I pointed out that the red arrow denotes the give way side, my side had a blue arrow confirming priority, and anyway, what part of the words " Give Way " attached to a plate on the side of the road at her end, did she not understand ?

She then claimed that she couldn’t reverse her car in the dark, and I countered with the observation that then she shouldn’t have assumed control of a motor vehicle on a public road, and suggested that if she alighted from her car I would be willing to reverse it for her.

I returned to my car and waited, and eventually she raggedly backed up, and I continued, later now than if I had backed up myself in the first place, of course.

" He was right, dead right as he drove along, but he’d have been less dead if he’d been more wrong ! "

ShyTorque..........

Indicating on roundabouts has exercised more than one thread on PPRuNe in recenty years, and nothing changes.

Multi-lane roundabouts are probably worthy of different logic, and there are few of these in NZ. but even the simple roundabouts confuse the Kiwi drivers.

In my opinion a right indicator should be totally banned on roundabouts - but I will concede to situations on multi-lane roundabouts - maybe - we all HAVE to go around the roundabout in a right handed circulation, so we don't need any indicator to announce that, all I need to know is when you are going to swing left across my bows to exit.

Unfortunately the NZ Transport Authority have recently muddied the waters by recently changing the rules, and we now have indicate on the approach to any roundabout our intention AS IF the roundabout doesn't exist, i.e. left to take the first exit, nothing to take the 2nd exit, and right to take the 3rd ( 270 deg ) exit. One then changes the indication passing the exit prior to the one wishes to use, so the straight ahead driver, previously having indicated nothing, now indicates left, and the 270 deg driver maintains his right indicator until passing the 180 deg exit, and then changes it to a left indicator. Understand !

If you do, please educate the Kiwi drivers - I despair, most stop - unnecessarily - and then use a right indicator to show that they are entering a right handed circulation - and after that anything goes ! some go straight across, some turn left, with the right indicator still going etc. etc.

I despair, the dent on my dashboard is getting larger with every blow from my forehead.

Krystal n chips
3rd Sep 2010, 06:00
Giving way ?....:hmm:

In the local rural hamlet ( pop about 12000 and, shock ! horror ! not all closely related to each other ) there is but one set of traffic lights. They are very pretty in colour and the red is really pretty....so much so that it is common practice to simply ignore this brilliant light...and drive through...not as in some tosser doing about 50 etc and simply jumping a red....but in a nice, calm ad deliberate manner :ugh:...thus giving way takes on a whole new meaning given that it's not being unreasonable I feel to expect cars to stop at the red light....I could be wrong of course.....one of those cameras that take pics of light jumpers would be nice...the outrage alone would be worth it...:E....but this is highly unlikely and West Mercias finest are also unlikely to pay much attention either.

visibility3miles
3rd Sep 2010, 06:10
Bicycling on a side road in England years ago -- had to climb up a small bank and cling to a hedge in order to let a Morris Minor get past. :eek:

Good thing they weren't going very fast. What would they've done if it was a stray sheep or cow?
--------

Separate note: the Saddle Road on the Big Island in Hawaii from Hilo to the other side is paved on both sides, but in more deserted areas, the pavement that straddles the center line is far better than that on either edge. I didn't understand why until I saw a Mercedes barreling towards me straddling the center line.

Aha! I realized it's cheaper to pave it that way for the amount of traffic it gets.

The oncoming driver yielded to their lane as we passed then switched back to the smoother middle.

The tight corners were well paved in both lanes; also clever.

Loose rivets
3rd Sep 2010, 07:19
I can't ever recall doing so, but as I understand it, if one is in an inner lane on a roundabout and whishes to move out to leave, ones has to signal left. Okay? But, if there's traffic coming round on the left, then that has priority.

The question is, if you saw somebody at a complete standstill waiting to move over then off the roundabout, would you think this was correct?

MagnusP
3rd Sep 2010, 08:36
visibility3miles: The Saddle Road is fun. Are tourists still banned from using it by the car hire companies?

SpringHeeledJack
3rd Sep 2010, 08:38
Separate note: the Saddle Road on the Big Island in Hawaii from Hilo to the other side is paved on both sides, but in more deserted areas, the pavement that straddles the center line is far better than that on either edge. I didn't understand why until I saw a Mercedes barreling towards me straddling the center line.

This interestingly is/was the only public road on that island that car-hire companies refused to cover with insurance, such was the probability that an 'incident' would occur. They've improved the surface on much of it now, but as was said it made sense to just tarmac the central strip on a cost/use basis.

Talking about narrow bridges and priority, it does seem that many on the unprioritzed side are emboldened to think that the rules don't apply to them and are bellicose with rage when this is pointed out. I loved Keef's example, very funny!



SHJ

M.Mouse
3rd Sep 2010, 09:39
On the subject of roundabouts what about the so-called 'mini-roundabouts'? People seem to think that because they are screaming towards one at high speed that the person waiting to emerge has to give way despite the fact the approaching car is still 30 or 40 yds away. Surely the 'Give way to the right' rule applies once on the roundabout or at least when just about to enter it?

pineridge
3rd Sep 2010, 15:55
Ancient Mariner said.....................


"Valebø road between Skien and Notodden and this is actually normal behavior, same thing with the old Svineroi near Rjukan before they widened the road last year."

Been there-done that.

I guess the favourable accident statistics that Norway enjoys confirm your assessment of the good manners on the roads here. The town I have the misfortune to drive in, however, seems to be a "rules of the road- free" district where good manners are a sign of weakness to be exploited whenever possible.

ShyTorque
3rd Sep 2010, 17:31
Unfortunately the NZ Transport Authority have recently muddied the waters by recently changing the rules, and we now have indicate on the approach to any roundabout our intention AS IF the roundabout doesn't exist, i.e. left to take the first exit, nothing to take the 2nd exit, and right to take the 3rd ( 270 deg ) exit. One then changes the indication passing the exit prior to the one wishes to use, so the straight ahead driver, previously having indicated nothing, now indicates left, and the 270 deg driver maintains his right indicator until passing the 180 deg exit, and then changes it to a left indicator. Understand !

That's the rules i.a.w. the UK Highway Code, as they always have been. On our multi-laned entrances to roundabouts (and most of them are on major roads) one is also supposed to get in the correct lane for the intended manoeuvre. It's a fairly simple concept and has worked well for years. However, these days fewer folk seem to understand or care about the rules.

According to most sources, one in five vehicles in UK is now uninsured. It's not difficult to work out the link between uninsured drivers and those without a driving licence and therefore the knowledge to drive correctly..

G-CPTN
3rd Sep 2010, 18:45
According to most sources, one in five vehicles in UK is now uninsured.
Which means that ANPR cameras will be busy!

Tankertrashnav
3rd Sep 2010, 19:12
ExSp33dbrd wrote


and one red-necked Kiwi farmer driving a beat-up old Trabant finally got fed up of waiting and slowly advanced to the middle of the bridge, engaged 4-wheel drive, low gear, and slowly pushed the opposing vehicle back from whence it had come.



Now I am sure that Kiwi farmers dont drive Trabbies, and in any case they dont have 4 wheel drive and low gear, so I assume he was driving a L A N D R O V E R. Trouble is if you type it in normally it automatically gets corrected to Trabant, as I discovered on another thread a few days ago.

Anyone explain this mystery?

vulcanised
3rd Sep 2010, 20:10
It's someone's sense of humour.

A bit like the 'Easter Eggs' you used to discover in programs years ago - not sure if they still do that?

ExSp33db1rd
4th Sep 2010, 05:36
........Trouble is if you type it in normally it automatically gets corrected to Trabant.......

Thank you !!! My letter of severe complaint was being formulated in my head as I continued to read.

Correct - it was a short-wheel based vehicle with canvas seats and a canvas roof, produced by a once famous British vehicle manufacturer somewhere near Coventry just after the Second World War, in an attempt to emulate the ubiquitous Jeep of USA origin, made famous during that aforesaid War. Some might say that the British manufacturer exceeded their design brief in many areas - but I couldn't possibly comment, of course.

The subject vehicle looked original, and none of the various bangs and dents in the body work had been painted out, or over, therefore the owner didn't give a stuff !!

manamana
4th Sep 2010, 14:20
Ye with the loudest hooter has right of way :ouch:

Slasher
4th Sep 2010, 14:28
....that gets my goat frequently.

The thing that really gets my goat,....

Is there something about goats and traffic habits? :confused:

Two's in
4th Sep 2010, 15:02
All this sounds very complicated compared to the system in use here in the US. Before you can even drive here you need a medical examination by a Urologist and a Proctologist. Using these results, a formula is derived that confirms if you are a complete arsehole with a small dick you drive a Hummer and have priority over all other traffic. It's a much simpler system.

SpringHeeledJack
4th Sep 2010, 16:12
Mr Slasher, a psychologist would ask why the goats had jumped out at you from all the word foliage on this thread....and what do they mean to you ?

:8 :E :=



SHJ

Windy Militant
4th Sep 2010, 16:46
Can someone help me with a linguistic problem please. It may be possible that as English is not entirely my first language that I have misunderstood the meaning of the wording of a sign we have at work. It is a red octagon with the word stop on it in white. Now my understanding is that one should stop at this sign, however it would appear that this is not the case as I have nearly been T boned, well it's about a dozen times now at the last count. So do the graduates and PhDs who work on our site know something that I don't? It is rather annoying that I have less problems with Hyde park corner, Piccadilly circus the Bull ring in Birmingham or the M8 into Glasgow than I do on a 20 mph road at a research lab. :eek:
PS I suspect that the woman who had a rant at my mate when he pointed out that he had right of way after she narrowly missed us was from the HR department, especially when she said it was a stupid sign and she wasn't going to stop there anyway.:hmm:

Loose rivets
4th Sep 2010, 16:51
Yet the word stop, when uttered to a man, is cast in stone as far as the law is concerned.

Slasher
4th Sep 2010, 17:31
Mr Slasher, a psychologist would ask why the goats had
jumped out at you from all the word foliage on this thread....
and what do they mean to you?

Because overcliched use of the word "goat" gets up my goat a lot thats why! ;)