The worst roster Commercial Airline flying!

[flighttime2.0]

Hi All,

I was just wondering if you fellow pilots could give me an idea of your companys roster. I want to compare this to my own, which I believe to be the worst roster in the airline busisness.

A typicall montly roster for me working for a major European Airline is..... A carmen interbid system that does not work the way carmen designed it to.. no fixed patern, meaning lates and earlies even in the same week as long as you have 12 hours rest inbetween. Only have 8 days per month off ( yes only 8 ).. typical roster can consist of 5 days of doubles on followed by 1 day off, then 5 days on followed by 1 day off the 3 days on followed by 2 off the 5 on two off ect!

Just wondering if it gets worst than this?


By the way Im glad to have a flying job but also deserve a life outside work.
flighttime 2.0

[el caballero rojo]

8 garantueed days off whowwww.:ooh:

A well known German airline with over 50 years in the business. We fly short, medium and long with two different aircraft types; narrow and widebody mixed.
I have 11 days off a month but only 4 are garanteed, the rest is like darts.
Sometimes the day before you are not sure you will have off.
The roster is very unstable. You only get a roster a week before the month starts. If you want to request days off you have to do it 2 months in advance. Every standby creates a whole messup of your roster if you are called for a round trip or a longrange flight. In 6 years I had only one block vacation as requested.
I think there is worse but there is better for sure (I have seen it)

My opinion,... EU Ops made it even worse. If we woud not have had a collective working agreement, it would have been a nightmare.

[flighttime2.0]

Sorry what I mean is 8 days off in total, none of which is garanteed to be the days you might request and never turn out to be the days you request like a Saturdsy/Sunday ect! ...... so to have 11 off would be fantastic...... and as for weekends..Ive not had one of then off in 7 months..

[Piltdown Man]

This is why we have unions. I have a stable five week roster (volcanos excluded), days off that are fixed in stone (11 in 28), biddable annual leave and so forth. I work my share of weekends, Christmases and earlies. Yes, occasionally our schedulers sometimes attempt to give us the rough end of the pineapple, but rosters which exceed our agreements are null and void and are re-wriiten when you raise the issue.

Suggestion: Get together with your colleagues and join a union.

PM

[B767PL]

8 days off?

Wow.

Back when I was working for my regional in the U.S we had 12 days off for line holders,and 10 for reserve guys, monthly.

With no good and strong union, in this biz, you might as well buy yourself some KY jelly to make it less painful.

[PaulW]

Random roster, 2 week roster threatened, same day and next day changes often and a generous eight days off a month, Eastern Airways will be recruiting shortly with this generous package including no pension, and pay that ensures all employees have a sense of humour, making job application motivational questions easy to answer.

[mad_jock]

I wondered when the Eastern roster was going to get a mention :D

[DragRequired]

Roster ?....whats that...lol I was just called at 950 pm to be informed of what I am doing tomorrow. Its like that everyday. most of the times you know that you were off after the day has passed, or youre told that you are holding a standby on the day ( youre Not called) next day its listed as OFF on the company roster. This company ....no pension, no union, no medical, no staff travel, no interline, no rights...haha..You guys are lucky to say the least. :ugh:

[SloppyJoe]

OK I know this is about the worst roster but thought I would post mine for this month as it is the other end of the scale. 1st 13hr ULH flight. 2nd - 10th off, 11th-18th 4 x 13hr ULH flights, 19th-28th off 29th 13hr ULH flight, 30th off.

Yeah will be pretty tired on the 18th but will probably live.

[thrustpig]

I wish, give this one a try for 6 months.
ICAO modified ftdl 1000 hours / 364 days.
100 hours per 28 days. real time modification for next day if planned stick hours exceeded.
11 hours min rest. Flights retimed if previous duty returns late.
mixed early / late, day / night,
0800 local finish, report again same day 1800 local.
7 days off per 28, average 24 off in 84.
At least 1 pattern of 7 duty days in a row per 4 week roster cycle.

[error_401]

1 OFF / 1 4LEG /2 OFF/2SIM/1 4LEG/1 OFF/2 4LEG/1 OFF/3 4LEG/1 OFF/1 4LEG/8 OFF (6 of which are for a reduced 80% work schedule to have a life)/3 4LEG/3 OFF.

No complaints about the off days. I not only loose 20 % of pay but about 60 - 70 % of expenses because no night stops. Before it used to be about 11 - 15 night stops per month until the day I changed from 100 % to 80 % :\.

May be able to trade my roster after the SIM with rostering.
They are keen on guys without limitations they can plan for 4 day trips.

[Dufo]

The worst is one with 0 ON, 30 OFF and no pay.

[Easy Ryder]

Bang on Dufo!

[luvly jubbly]

Dufo, I was there for the first 6 months of this year. I know the feeling :rolleyes:

[macdo]

10 days off per month set in stone. About 80hrs/month medium haul summer, lot less winter. Too many 18-30hr rest periods, but we get 10 days off of your choice each year and as many request doff's as you want to ask for, of which you'll get about 50%. Roster set in stone, volcano's excepted.50 days leave.
T&C's amoung the best in the UK. When I joined this airline many years ago, we had no union and life was like many of the posts above.
WHY DO WE HAVE ALL THIS? BECAUSE WE NOW HAVE A UNION.
Yes, its expensive.
yes, they don't always get it right.
Yes, some of the CC are difficult to like.
yes, it takes time for things to improve.

Its about time pilots wised up, joined up and pressed for a lifestyle that gives you some life.

Standing by to be flamed by ex-employees of now defunct airlines, but it don't make anything I have said less true. United we stand etc. etc.:ugh:

[Mr Angry from Purley]

flighttime
Looks like sub part q rest rules are being applied with the single days off?
What happened before sub part Q arrived??:\

[EAM]

The company I worked for before: 6on, 1 off, 6on, 1 off, 8OFF in total per month, got called on every OFF day.


Present company, owned by a famouse racing driver, min 10 days off, average 11-12 days per month, very stable roster, always a min. of 2 consecutive days off, 3 days can be requested off, on avail. we are informed if we have to fly the day before, if not its an additional OFF. Like this 12-14 days Off per month. (Best was 17 days at home, commuting).
Best roster in the group, maybe because we have no union:E

[Faire d'income]

Suggestion: Get together with your colleagues and join a union.
The company in question, if I read the OP correctly, is fully unionised. The union, however, has long since ceased to concern itself with such pettifogging details as conditions. It, instead, plays with shares and pretends to be influentia

....I read the OP the same way......not so much a union as an autocracy........those pilots really need two unions.......

[cargodogs]

Typical roster for me: 31 AUG-03SEP MH flight, 4. SH flight, 5-6 off, 7-10 STBY 3 hours the first day and 12 hours the next 3 days, 11-14 off, 15-18 LH flight, 19-20 OFF 21-22 MH Flight, 23-25 off, 26-29 LH flight, 30 off.

We have no union, but I still get 12 days off, plus 4 stby days, where I hardly ever get called. I'm pretty happy with my roster, and feel for you other guys. I've been there and know the feeling.

A union may be answer, but the sad truth is that's only really an option if you fly in EU or US. Anywhere else: forget it!

The downside to unions is that they can be expensive for the company. Tried that as well, and basically got sacked because our union was too good. It's easy to sit back in your isolated cube and demand, but if you look at it from the company's viewpoint, you are demanding a good package (and rigthly so), but they have to factor in the costs of running a business in, say Europe. Ie, they have to compensate you for having to pay taxes and the cost general cost of living. On top of that you are asking for more days off.

I'm not saying any of you are wrong, just trying to give a broader view, than just the pilot side. By al means, support/start the unions. I'm all for that. Just remember that you're competing against companies that don't have to compensate their pilots for taxes and cost of living etc. Hence, if you are lucky enough to get what you ask for, you may run the company into the ground. Speaking from experience here. I'm a not gonna mention the largest operator i Scandinavia.

[oboema]

Working for a European "Blue" legacy carrier. Currently on the long-haul fleet. Low seniority.

current roster:
Last friday returned from 3 day trip (GRU) 6 days off.
this friday medical, from saturday onward 5 days STBY then 5 days off.
thereafter 5 day trip (KUL) then 5 days off+3 extra compensation days.
then 3 day trip (KIX) thereafter 6 days off.

average 3 trips a month, 19+ days off a month. One can select long trips to see the world or short trips which generate a lot of time-off at home (see above) Salary does not depend on hours flown.

Short haul fleet has a 28-day "block system" 16 days on 12 days off per 28 days (days off spread through the 28 day period)

Airline has 95% union membership. Company is profitable again, Union has good relationship with airline (sensible policy)

very happy; job for life.

take care guys.

[Witraz]

My early days of flying in Scotland we decided the definition of a DAY OFF was one where you set your alarm for 6 AM to have a beer. That way when the phone rang at 06:10 ....... Sorry I've been ......... and you got your day off. Seems like times haven't changed.

[rubik101]

One of the reasons I never looked back after leaving a well known german carrier was a roster that had you landing at 23.30Z, (01.30 local) with a 30 min taxi back to the airport you started at to pick up your car then home maybe at 01.00-01.30Z. My next report was at the same airport with the 30 min taxi ride to check in at 00.10 (24hrs and 25mins later) for a flight to Crete and back.

Those hours free of duty between the two taxi rides was officially and legally, according to the LBA a day off, one of the 8 you were entitled to.

Just take a moment to ponder that...you get home at 03.00 local and have to be getting showered and ready at 22.30 local the same day for a 12 hour shift and it's your day off!

3, 4 or 5 hours in a taxi before or after duty were quite common. (only half of which counted as FDP, as you were 'relaxing') Lates and earlies mixed with min rest in between were also commonplace.

Single days off such as that mentioned were the norm. If you had 2 days off together you were very fortunate. 3 days in a row was generally a rostering error and occured about as frequently as my winning the lottery.

Afaik, it's still much the same for these German carriers, the management of which virtually own the LBA. JAA/European FTL are simply ignored. So for these reasons, I would say thay was the worst roster I have ever suffered.

[Alpine Flyer]

European Regional Airline, unionized, union contract.

8-9 days off min per month, min yearly average 10/month

days off must be scheduled as 3 blocks of 53 hrs and one block of 60 hours min, with two such blocks to be scheduled as a 113 hr "superblock" once per quarter.

5 weeks vacation (consisting of 25 working days and 10 of the above off days), increasing to 6 weeks as the hairline recedes

all days off set in stone. Company pays 1,75 days worth if you "sell" a day off but this is - mostly rightfully - frowned upon by the works council.

duties may not be extended by more than 1 hour (2 hours after 2100LT) (i.e. a 7:00 reporting time may be changed to 6:00 but not to 5:55). If, leaving homebase, a delay of more than 1:45 beyond your scheduled check-out is planned, you may refuse to even leave)

Very strict but sometimes too good. Sometimes especially cabin crew seems to have a hard time judging what changes to accept beyond contractual obligations and refuse extensions as a principle even if they don't have any private appointments after check-out and could easily help the company.

About 50% of duties are single days with 2-4 legs, remainder are mostly 2-, sometimes 3-day layovers. (This being subject to change as the company timetable will be renovated for the winter season.)

[Teddy Robinson]

non EU,(weekly) roster period monday to sunday, roster issued on the last day (sunday) duty periods typically 3/4 per week, 4 sectors over 13 hours, no days off appear on the schedule (so in effect it's a rolling standby), nor included in 31 day annual leave period, no credits for national holiday days worked.. impressive huh ? that has to be one of the worst I have heard of .. and yes I have seen the offending "schedules" ... hardly legal ?

[pilot999]

5 on 4 off at Ryanair and its superb, home every night. standbys at home.

It ain't better than that. :ok:

[Slasher]

Plenty of time off per month (av 12 days) but I do work my
bloody butt off when on duty - either 2 arduously long sectors
or a bunch of 5-6 short sectors. Can be worked up to 8 days
straight. Min rest is the norm between duty periods (11 hrs)
irrespective of dist from hotel/home to airport. 1,000 hours
limit pa but I actually average 800ish. The 1,000 hours is per
calendar year - the clock is reset at 0001 NYD so in a 365 day
cycle its possible in theory to bust that limit JARwise.

If it wasn't for the salary package and great perks Id've told
'em to shove it long ago.