View Full Version : Bread

Peter Fanelli
28th Aug 2010, 04:06
Continuing the food theme......
Why the F*** can American bread makers not make a decent bread?
One which feels cool and moist to the touch when fresh and one which will actually tolerate having butter spread (NOT SPRAYED) on it.

Most bread is as dry and dusty as a 90 year old .......

Loose rivets
28th Aug 2010, 04:30
And why isn't it delivered at my front door - on Wednesdays and Saturdays...and cost a shilling. (It made national news when it went up to One-and-thrippence.)

tony draper
28th Aug 2010, 08:48
Recently discovered a excellent new bread up here,Warburtons Tiger Unsliced Brown,a proper crusty loaf with crust one needs a full set of teeth to tackle.

28th Aug 2010, 09:12
Local Coop sells tiger buns. They freeze (and thaw) superbly. Fresh crusty 'bread' whenever wanted . . .

tony draper
28th Aug 2010, 09:26
What infuriates me is going into the local bakers pointing and grunting to indicating one wished purchase half a dozen of their excellent crusty buns then seeing the lady stick said buns into a polythene bag which renders the crustyness soggy in thirty seconds flat, near came to fistycuffs in one bakers when one told the lady to leave the buns unbagged,"More me jobs worth" she answered, good job she was a female or blood would have flowed.
Stil, tiz summat to put one one's Grumpy old man's CV that one has been banned for life from a baker and confectioners.

28th Aug 2010, 09:27
Commercially produced bread is simply the cheapest way to make water stand upright.

Tempted by the 'In-store bakery'? It is nothing of the sort. It is simply tanning salon for dough that has been produced elsewhere by the quickest possible means. The French, God bless 'em, have something right in the respect. A boulanger can only be called so if each of the five processes required to make a loaf take place on one site.

Make your own. It is simple,you will get to know what real bread tastes like and it is delivered fresh, directly to your table.

28th Aug 2010, 09:59
I wonder how long the French can maintain the myth that they are the only ones who can make bread. True, a freshly bought baguette is great at breakfast, but by lunchtime you may as well use it as a jack handle. Living in Paris I missed the sheer variety of breads available in your average British bakery from crusty farmhouses, granary loafs, cobs, floury baps, the list goes on. And while we're knocking British supermarket bread (and I do) let's compare like with like. My local supermarche in the suburb where I lived stocked white sliced bread with a sell-by date 3 weeks ahead! Tried it once and it almost made me nostalgic for Mother's Pride (well almost).

28th Aug 2010, 10:01
On a related note, one is sick & tired of Supermarket bread & I use the word advisedly. Baking one's own from scratch is too much of an ache, so one has been contemplating one of they bread making witchcraftery doo hickeys.

Any good?

28th Aug 2010, 11:33
Only sampled friends' fresh product from breadmaker.

It was so good that two of us ate a whole loaf for breakfast.

Our conclusion was that we would NEVER buy one: we're far too fat already :O

28th Aug 2010, 11:43
There are two basic types of wheat used to make bread - Hard Wheat (with a high protein content) and Soft Wheat (high starch content). The French use one type and the British the other and this accounts for differences in the bread (generally Hard Wheat is used in British bread, and stays softer longer, and soft wheat in French bread, which starts off softer but goes stale much quicker).

Lon More
28th Aug 2010, 11:51
we would NEVER buy one seconded. Marvellous things though, even if you didn't bake the bread in it. Using it to work the dough resulted in excellent breads out of the oven. Despite the extra work required still too morish. Local supermarket, Appie Heijn, does some bread which is reasonable, Pain de Madelaine, I only ever buy a half loaf at a time though as it doesn't keep more than 2 days. We used to have a baker that baked his own bread in the village, you could get dread at 0500 6 days a week, but that's now been taken over by someone about 10 miles away and everything comes from there now.

edited to add - the bread from a local Turkish grocer is the best I've tasted in a long time. Unfortunately it also tends to disappear very quickly along with the olives and goat cheese bought at the same time

28th Aug 2010, 11:53
There was an interesting article recently in the Hate Mail written by a man who knew his stuff about bread. The so called bakeries in supermarkets are really designed to make the store smell nice, as someone earlier mentioned they do NOT bake the stuff from scratch but just finish the pre-made product.

Where my friends live in Ann Arbor, Michigan they have a delicatessen/bakery which has bread which stands up against the best you will find anywhere. What the OP is referring to is the ghastly mass produced pap that passes for bread. The UK produces the same but not quite so bad! Good bread is available but, like so much food, you have to search for something which is not made in a way that is easy and maximises profit for the large scale producers but made with pride by real bakers.

In the Hate Mail article I learned that mass producers of bread have now perfected a way of making dough WITHOUT it needing several hours to ferment. Heaven help us.

28th Aug 2010, 11:53
It's certainly a myth that the French make the best bread (.....cars, clothes, food, wine .....) in the world but they certainly do a lot better than many others. The biggest problem with most French bread is that by the time you've got it home from the boulangerie it's already going hard - I wonder if the makers of Viagra got the formula from French baking techniques.

The Portuguese and the Italians are far better, they manage to make bread which looks and tastes good and which is edible the next day and sometimes longer.

Um... lifting...
28th Aug 2010, 12:08
Why the F*** can American bread makers not make a decent bread?There's a difference between 'can' and 'want to'. And most consumers are morons and will eat whatever the telly tells them to eat. A good baker is worth their weight in gold... if you're lucky enough to find one. Oh sure, easy in NYC or some other places. If you have such a thing as a Russian or French or whatever community center in your vicinity, paying a social visit may give you a line on real bread, that isn't wrapped in plastic printed in 3 color ink (a sure sign of shabby quality).

Bread says a lot about a society's priorities. It ain't called the staff of life for nothing. North of Milano, the bread is rubbish. The risotto is fabulous. In southern Italy, gather the bread is lovely, though never been there. When asked by a colleague why they couldn't make bread in N. Italy that was as good as their risotto, the waiter shrugged, as if to say... "Hey, this is Northern Italy, and we can't be bothered, take it or leave it."

Find out who your quality domestic bread flour mills (hard red winter wheat, generally) are, contact them, and ask to whom they distribute where you live... go there.

Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.

The strategic solution is make your own... a bread machine works, and we used one at sea (though we badly underestimated the consumption rate for the helicopter shop and had to clean out two commissaries and a supermarket in Guam for bread mix less than 25% into the deployment). The maintainers could field-strip the bread machine in about 30 seconds... probably would have been a good torture test for the machine if we'd thought about it.
There are good scratch recipes to be found for bread machines online, then it's a question of laying hands on the ingredients. We had no internet service then, limited time, and were working with a contraband bread machine on an anal-retentive ship with crazed electricians who had a habit of snipping power cords, so we had to go with ready mix, which we stored in a dual padlocked footlocker with an opening protocol not dissimilar to that for launching a nuclear missile (you can only tell the CO you need the ship's vehicle to go get bales of aviation quality rags while actually heading out to buy bread mix with a straight face so many times... the things I've had to say... but 'shoes don't understand the ways of aviators).

If you remember basic proportions... 3:1:1:1:1 (cups of flour, cups of warm liquid (water or milk), yeast packet, generous teaspoon of something sweet for the yeast to work on, pinch of salt), you have the basics. Preheated oven at 450F / 230C / Gas Mark 8, 20 minutes or so, turn off the oven and let it sit 5 more minutes. Try to let it cool a bit before tearing into it.

Everything else (shape, herbs, egg or no, glaze, fillings, nuts, ratio of whole flour to white flour, whether you use sugar, honey, molasses, or a flour paste to feed the yeast, etc.) is improvisation on a jazz theme. King Arthur Flour is a very high quality flour in the U.S. of A. Costs a bit more. Worth it.

Making bread by hand is a cinch if you develop a process, and it takes far less actual labor time than it does clock time... even if you knead it by hand, you bunch of whingeing PPRuNers (knead for 5 minutes, PPRuNe for 40, punch down dough pretending it's that troll on the AGW thread, then knead again for 5, PPRune for 40, bake, feel smug and superior... spread with topping of your choice or leave it al fresco... eat).

And checklist followers are simply demons for process...

28th Aug 2010, 12:34
As a long standing logistics professional, I had no idea bread had strategic solutions.

28th Aug 2010, 12:46
It is said that the ratio of used-once and put in a cupboard to regularly used breadmakers is something like 50:1.

28th Aug 2010, 12:56
Making bread by hand is a cinch if you develop a process, and it takes far less actual labor time than it does clock time... even if you knead it by hand

Quite agree, Lifting.

I've been baking my own bread for the last 36 years or so and the only change has been from fresh yeast to the dry 'Easyblend' type which means you don't even need the sugar to make it go. Once every two weeks or so I chuck a 1.5 kilo bag of flour into a (very) large bowl, add two teaspoons of salt, two sachets of yeast, about 80gm of lard and 30 fluid ounces of water (32 for wholemeal flour), mix it all up to a good dough, knead for 10 - 15 minutes then leave to rise for about 1 hour in a warm place (the oven preheated to 50 deg Celsius then turned off). Take it out, knead it again for a couple of minutes, divide it and put it into three loaf tins (preferably proper deep ones, not the shallow type with the broad rim round it) and leave it to rise again for three quarters of an hour then bake for 35 minutes (40 for wholemeal loaves). Result - three 800 gm loaves and the whole house smells of fresh-baked bread.:)

The secret is to use good flour - I use flour from Carrs of Silloth and get much better results than from Hovis or the like.

Yesterday's lunch; cheese and tomato sandwich with home-made bread, home-grown tomato and Booth's extra mature cheddar..........the simple pleasures of life!;)


Um... lifting...
28th Aug 2010, 13:57
As a long standing logistics professional, I had no idea bread had strategic solutions.

Solutions, and indeed, implications. Y'see, you got your travellin' bread (or tomatoes or cheddar) and you got your eatin' bread (or tomatoes or cheddar, a concept gg is apparently crystal clear on, having visited the "make or buy" question and resolved it satisfactorily). Clearly, you confuse the two because you don't get out of the office enough, see the troops, get down on the shop floor, visit the front, MBWO.

You gotta go further in the analysis of the inputs to your supply chain. It's all laid out in chuks' book, Moby Dick.

There is an apocryphal story of a birthday cake on an airplane during WWII. The prospective recipient was a private American soldier, the sender was his mother. A captured German general was on that airplane, saw that cake, and realized that any country at war that had a logistical system that could rapidly deliver a birthday cake from a mother in Iowa to her boy on the lines was not to be trifled with. Did it happen? Pretty to think so.

28th Aug 2010, 14:32
That story about the Birthday cake came from a film?
The Longest Day I think.

Memsahib always makes our bread in her little machine.
It's lovely stuff, and the house smells really homely after she's
made some overnight.

28th Aug 2010, 14:37
Having had the pleasure of living in many of the cultures so far named and having been a bread-o-holic many of the points raised were experienced. Bread, being the staff of life in many cultures since time began, give or take a mammoth or two, has played an important part in the lives of humans. We probably wouldn't be here typing to each other now if our ancestors hadn't sustained themselves with various breads....:8

Like various beverages fitting to different meals, i found that certain breads are a product of their citizens lifestyles. The Italians have one of the most wonderful cuisines, made with both love and pride, yet their breads are rubbish, a disinterested sideshow. Why would that be ? I would surmise that as their diet is primarily complex carbohydrates, such as pasta and rice, the need to evolve bread was minimal. Anyone who has 'enjoyed' a prima colazione will rue not having something more substantial to eat.

The Germanic countries have some of the most healthy and tasty breads on the planet, and let us not forget the Scandinavians who have been known to produce good bread. The French, god bless them, do things their own way and their bread and baking produce is made for and designed for being consumed on the day and it tastes fantastic. If you leave it for more than that, the produce dries out, goes hard and can be used as an ad-hoc weapon :}

As someone said, the professionals just think of logistics, and sadly the completely dominated bread/bakery market in the UK/US etc is in the hands of companies that want to sell joe public a product that will last for way longer on the shelves than it should, due to various chemicals that preserve and alter a simple product. Sliced toast bread is to many manna from heaven, to many others all promise and no action. Many of the middle-eastern and oriental and African breads are great, but as ever in the right culinary environment. I used to make my own bread years ago and you really can be very creative with it and as a poster said, it's cost is negligible. It takes an hour of your time every fews days and that's that. Not for everyone, but a great alternative and the kneading will add some strength to your 'poling arm' :)


28th Aug 2010, 15:20
Like others here, I bake most of our bread.

To me there has always been something almost miraculous about the way such simple ingredients, with so little effort, can become wonderful tasty loaves.

With a bit of discipline and organization, the effort involved is well worth it in terms of great bread and some good smells in the house.

I have a favourite flout 'Marriages Canadian Wholemeal' for wholemeal bread.

Howver, I also experiment with different mixes and have made some great tasting bread by using millet flour. a cornmeal flour mix and rice flour. If you can get it, chestnut flour mixed with a wholemeal has a good flavour.

A branch of Pauls has opened near us and I have to say that they produce some good breads.

Re Italian bread: one of the reasons much of it is [email protected] is that it is sold by weight. There are - at least so I am told - government regs on the % of water allowed to stop fiddles in the market. Hence the reason the little rolls are about as tasty as eating blotting paper and have much the same consistency.

In the Philippines I quite enjoy a local bread called 'pandesal' obviously meaning salt bread. However, most of the bread there appears to be sweetened and really is beyond the pale.

28th Aug 2010, 15:34
I like sourdough bread, and if I had a bigger kitchen / pantry I'd try making my own sourdough yeast starter, along these lines (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233). I've read of folks using beer as a basis for a starter - and I bet you could use the resulting yeast when making beer, too. :ok:

28th Aug 2010, 15:35

There was an interesting article recently in the Hate Mail written by a man who knew his stuff about bread.

That'd be the chap who taught me to bake, Andrew Whitley. A Bread God. Oh, and Veronica too!


The biggest problem with most French bread is that by the time you've got it home from the boulangerie it's already going hard

Slight exaggeration there, thinks moi. Bread is meant to be eaten, not kept. Why do you think les frogs go to the baker in the afternoon as well? For the fresh bake, of course. Any hard stuff they might have left is dipped in the chocolat chaud the next morning.

British commercial bakers want the fastest bread, 30 minute dough fermentation rather than 6 hours, so do whatever is necessary to achieve this. And what is necessary to achieve this is not always (or should I say, 'is always not') best for the bread. Take out the nourishment and then add God knows what to achieve the commercial end.


My starters evolve on the top shelf of a wardrobe in nothing bigger than a cereal bowl. Freeze off what is left over on baking day and use in the next starter. I had 5 grams of rye starter which is traced back by Andrew to some he brought over from Moscow 20 years ago. that went into a Borodinsky loaf and its child is awaiting my next foray into rye.

28th Aug 2010, 20:57
Why do you think les frogs go to the baker in the afternoon as well? For the fresh bake, of course. Any hard stuff they might have left is dipped in the chocolat chaud the next morning.

Yes maybe in some mythical time where they all still live in La France Profonde and inhabit cutesy villages, wear berets Basques and the local cure cycles round in his soutane. Meanwhile back in the real world most urban dwelling French have no more time for twice-daily visits to the boulangerie than has your average Brit. That sort of lifestyle has gone the way of the two-hour lunch, sad though that may be.

And I still think their bread is overrated!

28th Aug 2010, 21:08
I'm afraid I'm addicted to French bread whenever I'm in France - I usually buy far too much and then lose interest in it when it gets stale.

In the 1980s Denmark had a network of bakery outlets scattered within easy reach of any settlement - both rural and urban - so popping along to the bakery was easy though usually for cakes rather than bread (which was black ryebread).

Solid Rust Twotter
28th Aug 2010, 21:19
1 kg flour

1.5 teaspoons salt

1 pack active dry yeast

1 340ml bottle of pale ale

Use same bottle to measure and chuck in lukewarm water.

Knead (it's a rolling and stretching motion rather than punching, so as to stretch and get air into the mix) then allow to prove for two to three hours in a warm dark place. Knead again and place in greased loaf tins. Allow to prove again for an hour or so while pre heating the oven to 200 deg C. Bake for 40-45 minutes.

One is fortunate to be able to add a cup of spent grains from the brewing process to the mix to turn out a very pleasant wholewheat type loaf. Also good with sun dried tomato and dried olives as a ciabatta. The plain dough rolled out thin makes great pita bread and can be done on a hot barbecue for a couple of minutes a side.

Edited for spollung.

28th Aug 2010, 21:33
I have been making bread four of five times a week for about twelve years now. I am on my second bread machine because it was only fifteen bucks more than replacing the second tin I wore out on the first machine.

I don't bake in the machine, just whack the ingredients in, after an hour and a half tip it out onto a floured board, shape it a put it on an oiled pan or in a closed pan for crustier. After another half hour swab with milk (or egg if we're feeling rich) and sprinkle with sesame of poppy seed, grated cheese or oil and herbs, score and put in hot oven and set the timer. The nearest person takes it out and puts it on a rack when the timer goes off.

We vary the recipe and the cooking method. In terms of labour it takes about seven or eight minutes total.

For the amount of work it takes . . . . . . . . .

28th Aug 2010, 21:40
A secret Birrddog family recipe, long since kept secret in the Birrddog family archives since I created the recipe.....

Make bread dough, or use Pizza dough in a pinch.

Make a prep surface out of tinfoil or a breadboard, sprinkle generously with flour.

Make fist size sections of dough .75" thick.

Put fresh rosemary in the middle (break off leaves not stalk), fold over and put some rosemary on the top.

Fire up the grill, charcoal preferred. Cook with the lid on, turning every 5 minutes for approximately 20 minutes.

Serve hot with butter.

28th Aug 2010, 21:50
A coincidence, seeing this bread, sorry, thread!

As I type, the smell of fresh bread is permeating the house. Our new bread making machine, bought only about five hours ago, is finishing its first ever loaf.

An "impulse buy" bargain from the local supermarket. A special offer, along with some customer loyalty coupons cashed in, meant it cost only 9.95, instead of nearly 80!

We've been without one for a few years so today was a welcome treat.

Tiger Bread is our family favourite (heavy textured white, anointed with Sesame oil) so we'll have a go at replicating that.

From past experience, these machines make superb pizza base dough. :)

29th Aug 2010, 08:21
Bread gives me gas, I'm afraid. :uhoh:

29th Aug 2010, 09:58
Women have gas???? :eek:

29th Aug 2010, 11:19
Get down to your local electrical white good retailer and purchase a Panasonic - a Panasonic mind you - bread maker. Now you can have a warm tasty loaf waiting for you when you get up in the morning. Not only that but a bit of experimenting will result in all manner of tasty yeast and flour based products.

Lon More
29th Aug 2010, 11:22
Women have gas???? most of the ones I know never stop talking long enough to build up any back pressure

wings folded
29th Aug 2010, 13:35
Bread gives me gas, I'm afraid.

When i drove flying machines, Total or Esso or whomsoever usually require payment for their Avgas.

I will suggest to my chums who still fly that they call for the Pizza Bowser, or the Bread Bowser, or the Brussel Sprout Bowser.

Apparently they give it to you free.

29th Aug 2010, 21:22
I would second the "Panasonic" suggestion. We bought one in 2002 and I (seems to be always my turn to set it going) get to use it every few days. It always seems to be better than bought bread, even when I experiment with stuff like herb/spices or adding oats or seed/nuts to the flour. It only takes me a few minutes to load it up, saving colliding in the bathroom at night, and we wake to the smell of fresh bread in the morning. I remove the loaf when I make the morning tea and by the time we get up it is just about ready to cut for breakfast.

Some friends, upon tasting home bread maker bread, bought a Kenwood machine and have been quite disappointed. The recipes in the book supplied with it use very different ratios of the key ingredients (flour,salt,sugar,water, butter & yeast) to our recipe book. Their bread always seems very heavy. If we use their recipes in our machine it doesn't work well, if they use our recipes in their machine, it also fails to please.

As an aside, I made some baguettes yesterday, using dough I had hand mixed on Friday evening and put in the fridge overnight, just to see what would happen. It rose quite a lot while in the fridge and rose more than usual during proving. I also used olive oil instead of butter. The resulting baguettes had a very dry crumbly texture. More fat content needed I think.

Having a liking for french bread and finding that the Tesco supermarket bakery got a bit nearer to the french bought french bread than we had managed we accosted the baker in our local Tesco and quizzed him on the issue. He said that they use a different flour for their french bread products but could not tell us what else went into it. They are supplied with a bag of stuff, pre-mixed, which they add to 16Kg of the special flour and pop into a mixing/kneading machine. This proves in a short time in a moist warm oven before baking. When we pressed him further he suggested we take a bag of the special flour and have a play. He duly signed "manager concession" on a 16Kg sack of flour and told the checkout staff to let it through! Free issue. We used it for a variety of loaves and it did make bread more like the french do but still not quite.....

I am still searching for the chewy crusty bloomer loaf recipe/method. The professional bakers tell me that it cannot be made in a domestic oven as there is no way to generate the right steam environment. Anyone know better?

I will be "mister bun the baker" again, later this evening.


29th Aug 2010, 21:33
If you're lucky enough to live in the right places, you can get excellent bread in the US. A big vote here for Acme Bakery, available throughout the Bay Area and baked a couple of miles from where I'm sitting typing in Mountain View. Big variety including a truly excellent olive bread. There are several other boutique operations like that around here, Acme happens to be my favourite.

Once you get out into the wilds though it's hopeless - spongy, sugar-loaded pap which is good only for adding uninteresting calories to your diet. We live on crackers in those places, which luckily are available in decent quality just about anywhere.

As for France... you can get a huge variety of bread in France, not just baguette. Try asking for pain de campagne, much nicer. Or go to Poilane (who unfortunately died piloting a helicopter, but that's not really a reflection on his baking skills).

But, it has to be said, the best bakeries in the world are in... Japan. Bet you weren't expecting that. As with many other things, the Japanese have closely watched the best in the world (France, in this case), then improved on it. The basement delicatessen of any Japanese department store, in any provincial city, will get you bread you could only dream of even in much of France. Same goes for patisserie stuff.


30th Aug 2010, 01:39
Home Bakers will always have great difficulty in reproducing french style crusty bread.

As stated above steam is an important part of that process and the bakers ovens have steam jets which are used for the first one and a half to two minutes of baking time which keeps the crust soft and moist until the loaf has finished with the "oven spring" and sets. The heat then dries out the moist crust which gives it that crunchy, crispy texture.

The best way to replicate this at home is with a spray bottle of water. Give the loaf a good spray before putting it in the oven and then open the door and spray it again after 45 seconds and again 30 seconds after that. You should come close to the same crusty conclusion (but not, I promise, as good) as the professional bakers. Just don't over do it or you will just get a soggy mess.

Another way to get a good crust is to add semolina to the mix. Approximately 250 grams to a 1.5kg mix should do it.

I was a Baker for over 10 years and have to admit that when I changed careers I vowed never to make the stuff again. But now, I am starting to think that was a little premature. I am getting a hankering to make some at home by hand. I really miss the feeling of the dough and making a nice loaf of bread. Strange.

30th Aug 2010, 03:52
Spinach bread

1 box chopped frozen spinach (defrosted and water squeezed out)
4 eggsTo your tase add...

Parmesan Cheese
bacon bits
salt & Pepper
minced garlic
dehydrated onion.
Mix it all together.Grease a square pan for thick bread or a rectangle pan for thinner bread. I make mine in a rectangle pan for the thinner looking bread. Now, the trick is to really grease your pan well with butter, then with pam or it will not come out. bake at 400 for 15 minutes or until firm. Let cool and using a spatula go around the edges and start to pry it up. It will be a little hard at first but then it will get easier once you get the sides started. It will come out in one piece. I cut in half twice and make two sandwiches. I toast them on the stove and add provolone, ham, turkey and grill it like a grilled cheese. Serve with mayo and mustard and wow, you must try

spInY nORmAn
30th Aug 2010, 07:30
No Knead Bread
(yes, it actually works)

For 1 normal loaf
2 cups of all-purpose or bread flour
1 cup of whole wheat flour
1/2 cup of any multi-grain mix
1/4 teaspoon of dry yeast
1 1/4 teaspoons of salt
1 5/8 cups of warm water

For 1 larger loaf
3 cups of all-purpose or bread flour
1 cup of whole wheat flour
1/2 cup of any multi-grain mix
1/2 teaspoon of dry yeast
1 1/2 teaspoons of salt
2 1/4 cups of warm water

1. Whisk the dry ingredients together thoroughly. Add the water and stir until a wet dough forms. Continue stirring until the dough incorporates all the loose flour in the bowl, about 60 seconds in total.
2. Cover the bowl with a towel and rest in a warm place for 12 to 18 hours. It will double in size, bubble and long gluten strands will form.
3. Knock the dough down, oil it slightly and form it into a baking pan.
4. Rest the dough a second time. In 2 to 3 hours it will rise again and double in size once more.
5. Bake 45 minutes in a preheated 425 degree oven


30th Aug 2010, 09:05
Any gluten free recipes?

I bake the Juvela mix we get on prescription for my boy. Been doing the same thing for several years and wonder if there's something better. I usually make batches of rolls in yorkshire pudding tins and freeze them.

Ready baked stuff from supermarkets is mostly poor, but the Genius brand is not too bad.


30th Aug 2010, 09:15
I deliver Juvela to the supermarkets, have done now for ten years:)

tony draper
30th Aug 2010, 09:26
Hmmm,wonder who discovered bread? I mean it's not like walking along picking up a bit of flint and thinking ,hmmm this is sharp, if I tie it to a stick and throw it at that hairy Elephant over there that will be the grub situation sorted for a month,it a whole process,find the right kind of seeds rub them betwixt two flat rocks,mix with water put it on fire remove from heat when brown.
Do you think aliens were involved?

30th Aug 2010, 09:43
I think that about lots of stuff Tony. Who first thought of digging dirt out of the ground, putting it in an incredibly hot fire (how did they get it hot enough) and melting it to produce a hard shiny substance called copper (then iron, etc). It's a big mistake to think we are smarter than our ancestors - I never ceased to be amazed at what some of them achieved.

(And I don't think aliens were involved!)

tony draper
30th Aug 2010, 09:48
Not so! tiz easy to see how smelting metals were accidently discovered,lets put these green stones round the fire lest it spread and set fire to me goatskin duvet,and discover in the morning they have melted and produced a shiny copper coloured supstance that is good for making bangles torques nose rings and such.

Howard Hughes
30th Aug 2010, 11:53
Our local baker is Vietnamese, they make the most scrumptious crusty on the outside, fluffy in the middle wholemeal bread! I have learnt that by arriving just after the 11th hour, the loaves are sitting in the cooling rack, stilll warm!

What's more they won't slice the bread while warm and send it home in thick paper bag! Hows that for class Mr Draper?;)

tony draper
30th Aug 2010, 12:00
The Vietnamese never discovered Stotty Cake though.:)

Howard Hughes
30th Aug 2010, 12:14
I blame the French influence...:}

tony draper
30th Aug 2010, 12:28
The French do not like us up here,we hang their pets.:uhoh: