Jet Airways 737 Engine Fire

[Analyser]

News report of a 737-800 returning back to Mumbai due to engine fire.Evacuation with some minor injuries but details are a bit sketchy at present.

[mm43]

From Times of India:-

MUMBAI: Mumbai airport saw unprecedented scenes on Friday evening when passengers of a Jet Airways flight to Chennai were asked to evacuate through emergency chutes after passengers saw smoke inside the cabin -- close to the left wing -- and pointed it out to the crew.

But the inflatable evacuation chutes at two of the exits near the middle of the aircraft failed to open, forcing many of the passengers to jump on to one of the wings and then jump down to the tarmac. Three of the panicky passengers suffered fractures and a dozen more received minor injuries in the process. All of them were given first aid by Mumbai International Airport Limited officials and those who suffered fractures were taken to hospital.

The incident took place around 9pm when flight 9W2302, already 45 minutes behind schedule, was on the taxiway of the airport just before take-off. "One of my co-passengers saw the smoke and immediately alerted the cabin crew," Shrikanth Barhate, one of the passengers aboard the Boeing 737 aircraft, told TOI minutes after the dramatic escape.

One cabin crew went into the cockpit to inform the commander as others searched for the source of the fire. "Then, all of a sudden, we were told to evacuate and the emergency exits were opened," Barhate said.

The front and rear exits of the flight were also thrown open, he added, but not too many people could use them because the aisle was crowded. "Many passengers, who were nearer the emergency exits in the middle, rushed there," he said.

It was there that the passengers realised that there was no inflatable slide to help them get off the aircraft and they would have to jump off the flight. Many of the fliers first jumped on to the wing and then jumped more than 12 feet to reach the tarmac, suffering fractures and bruises in the process.

Barhate himself suffered minor injuries. "I had taken off my shoes and was relaxing when the flight attendant barked out the evacuation orders. I just jumped off the aircraft with my shoes in hand," he said, adding that an elderly woman who jumped after him apparently sustained serious injuries.

An MIAL spokesperson confirmed the incident. "Jet Airway's flight to Chennai reported fire in one of its engines when it was still on the taxiway," the official said. "But no fire was detected," he said.

A Jet Airways spokesperson said the commander on board was informed of "an alleged engine fire". There was no visible trace of the fire but the commander still proceeded to declare a "precautionary emergency", the spokesperson said, adding that a "thorough inspection of the engine was carried out" after the evacuation.

Several flights taking off from Mumbai were delayed and many had to manoeuvre around the parked Jet Airways flight to reach the take-off point.Would appear to be another case where the greatest damage resulting was to the souls evacuating.

mm43

[Grond]

QUOTE "But the inflatable evacuation chutes at two of the exits near the middle of the aircraft failed to open, forcing many of the passengers to jump on to one of the wings and then jump down to the tarmac."

Thats's what they are supposed to do since there aren't any slides at the overwing exits.

But of course everyone knew that because they had watched the safety demonstration ;)

[mini]

First post states it returned to Mumbai due engine fire, second post seems to state that pax noticed fire on approach and alerted CC bla bla.

As of yet there seems to be nil accurate/non speculative info.

i.e. nowt to learn.

[lomapaseo]

I suppose that we can make more sense out of this then what's in the papers.

I would have thought that the jump out the wing exit door would have ben about a foot or so to the wing and then a slide off the wing trailing edge to just a couple of feet hang time in the air.. nevertheless evacuations almost always result in injuries.

Of course I don't even want to go there about the need for evacuations, but seeing as the alarm started in the cabin I wouldn't be surprised that it was the passengers who decided on what course of action to take.

Perhaps someone on PPRune can post a schematic of the published overwing exit process on this type arcraft

[Ocampo]

Oohhhh, evacuation over an engine fire? while taxiing? You just wait until protectthehornet reads this :}

Anyway, seemed pretty much a "violent" evacuation over an engine fire; it definitely has more ways to cope with than a wheel brake fire (Jetblue at Sacramento).

But since the news writer thinks the airplane has slides on the trailing edge, I think we can assume the rest is potential rubbish too

[kotakota]

2 more questions :-

1. Were the flaps set to 40 during the Evacuation Memory Items ( this helps evacuees 'slide' off the wing and arrive on the ground at a slowish speed ) ?

2. Were the pax jumping off the leading edge ?

[TopTup]

Without wanting to trivialize the incident and least of all the injuries sustained by those concerned, allow me to indulge into how this investigation will go (based on Mangalore accident):

Was the Capt an expat? Was the FO and expat? Did an expat touch, go near or ever breath on the aircraft? There's your answer: BLAME THE FOREIGNER.

Illustrious investigator then publishes a report: wrong aircraft placed at wrong airport or at the very least in the wrong part of the taxiway, or wrong engine.

Finding 1: get rid of foreigners from India as they are the scourge of aviation in that country.

Finding 2: search to discredit or cover up any evidence of poor training, recruitment, corruption or negligence on the part of the DGCA or operator.


Sorry, but your past behavior is the greatest indicator of future behavior.

[Taltop]

1) good question

2) don't forget to switch on "wing heat"

3) extend speed brake makes evacuation real funny:ok:

4) watch the 4 Indian Pilots taxiing back the airplane with shacky heads

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Were the flaps set to 40 during the Evacuation Memory Items
There aren't any "Evacuation Memory Items" on the 737 I fly.

[kotakota]

ok poor choice of words , used to be memory items , now read and do . But where I work the initial RTO or 'possible evacuation ' scenario involves RHS selecting Flap 40 among other items before following up with the NNC Evacuation c/list .Good idea to get the flaps down as it wouldn't be the first time pax have taken action BEFORE evacuation announced , and start opening the overwings and scarpering.

DILLIGAF

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Yes I agree, good idea to get the flaps down sooner rather than later.

[bArt2]

Yes I agree, good idea to get the flaps down sooner rather than later.


I did that once in the sim using the same logic, got a 5 min speech about it and I was told to never to do that again. The sim instructor's logic was follow the QRH and do not anticipate on it. Well I guess next time when in the sim I'll just follow the QRH, there are no pax evacuating anyway in the sim.

[FlyKingfisher]

I think the crew jumped the gun on this one. If the aircraft was outbound as the TOI report states, they could have just returned to the gate instead of ordering an evac.

And what's the bull about the slides not opening on the overwing exits. There are no slides there (see diag. below), you've just got to slide out over the back of the wing. The slides are located only on the doors.

It's simple. The wings act as slides. Slides are required on the other exits because there's a sheer drop and you're bound to break a few bones trying to jump about 10ft or so below. If passengers sustained injuries while being evacuated from the slides or the overwing exits, it was probably a result of a mixture of over excitement and panic in the wake of the situation.

Does anyone have an idea about whether this a/c had just returned from maintenance? Could be storage oil burning off and smoke penetration through the airconditioning. Most likely a molehill rather than a mountain.

737 evacuation diagram

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/99/301107746_2a4629ef8a.jpg

[barit1]

Don't confuse me with the facts! (That drawing's too short for a 738 anyway, and has a 732 dorsal fin ...)

[leftseatview]

The wings dont act as slides....the flaps need to be lowered to 40 as part of the evac C/L...so that the drop to the ground is reduced.
The overwing exit on the 737 is the one which causes most of the broken legs sustained in an evac.
BTW the airbus has overwing slides
Runway edge lights when viewed from behind an NG engine,can create the illussion of a steady flame inside the engine.

[Ocampo]

Serious procedural lapses, pilot and crew suspended: DGCA (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/serious-procedural-lapses-pilot-and-crew-suspended-dgca-47815)

During the taxing of aircraft, an Additional Crew Member (ACM), travelling as a passenger, seated on 35A apparently observed fire on the Left Engine and informed another ACM also travelling as a passenger, seated on 35B, who also claimed to have seen the fire.

(...)

The PIC, on receiving the confirmation pulled the fire handles for left engine, right engine and APU. However he did not discharge any of the fire bottles. PIC ordered the evacuation from the aircraft.


What did he do that for? :eek:

Geez, I think someone took the emergency a bit too serious. Recently upgraded captain maybe? :E

[Sue Ridgepipe]

What did he do that for?
Because if you're going to evacuate the aeroplane, you do the evacuation checklist, which just happens to include this step:
Engine and APU
fire switches (all) . . . . Override and pull

If an engine or APU fire warning occurs:
Illuminated fire switch . . . . . . . . . . Rotate to the stop and hold for 1 second

[EW73]

I agree with all that.....but...

I just have never quite agreed that the 737NG EVAC Non-Normal should have been changed to a read-and-do, as a memory checklist it was more practical!

EW73

[kotakota]

bArt2 - when someone gets sued for NOT putting flaps to 40 -remember yr bollockers name !
Part of the Boeing RTO procedure is for the FO to select F 40 as the speed reduces through 60knots , now why is that ? He has also selected Press Mode to Manual and fully opened the Outflow Valve . Now , why is that ? As the Captain stops the aircraft he selects Speedbrake lever to DOWN , now why is that ?
The QRH Evac c/l is mainly follow-up / double check etc .
Its a no-brainer to get 3 Very Important Items out of the way before the flight deck fills with smoke . If the subsequent decision is to taxi to the stand , then flaps etc can be stowed away , no harm done .
Honestly , some of these 'trainers' should cut out the empire building . I was bollocked recently for not being word-perfect in my Take Off brief andnot inanely reciting the mantra which sends most copilots to sleep . I always try to bring in the 'whats different today' element to keep their attention .

DILLIGAF

[FlyKingfisher]

From The Times of India, Mumbai, Aug. 29, 2010:

DGCA hauls up Jet for lapses, 10 suspended
TNN, Aug 29, 2010, 02.11am IST

MUMBAI: Two pilots and eight flight attendants of Jet Airways have been suspended by the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) after it found ''serious procedural lapses'' during its investigation into Friday night's suspected engine fire incident. The airline's Boeing 737-800 aircraft, bound for Chennai with 131 passengers on board, was on a taxiway at the Mumbai airport when an emergency evacuation was initiated after a warning about a fire in the left engine.

Jet Airways, in its media statement, said the ''crew carried out the evacuation in accordance with standard operating procedures''. According to aviation sources, it is routine to deroster the crew involved in an incident or accident (irrespective of whether they are at fault or not). It is done to aid investigation. The DGCA, however, in a press release issued on Saturday, chose to use the word ''suspended'', instead of derostered or grounded . DGCA chief, Nasim Zaidi, was not available for comment.

''Preliminary fact-finding by the DGCA has indicated serious procedural lapses in dealing with the emergency and evacuation situation as per existing procedures laid down in aircraft rules,'' read the DGCA release. ''Hence, the pilot in command, first officer, four cabin crew members and four additional crew members have been suspended till further orders,'' the release added. The additional crew members were flight attendants flying as passengers to operate another flight.

The Jet spokesperson said the commander had ''initiated a precautionary evacuation''. ''It was carried out in the interest of safety of the passengers and crew,'' the spokesperson said.

The pilot community was divided over the action taken by the Jet commander. Though the flight attendants had confirmed that they had seen fire in the left engine, no fire alarm went off in the cockpit. Neither did the fire handles for the left engine light up. ''He erred on the side of caution. It's always better to order an evacuation than risk an explosion, what with tonnes of fuel in the wings,'' said one commander. Another felt that the commander acted in haste. ''Since the fire alarm did not go off, he should not have hurried with the evacuation. He should have waited for the airport fire brigade officials to give their opinion, and then as a precautionary measure he could have taken the aircraft to a remote bay,'' he said.

But all agreed that the most serious air safety lapse in Friday's incident occurred when the aft door on the left side of the aircraft was opened for evacuation. ''As the suspected fire was on the left engine, the emergency exits on the left hand side of the aircraft strictly should not have been opened,'' said a commander. The overwing rear exit on the left side, too, was opened, but that would have been done by passengers. ''In such situations, passengers do not pay attention to warnings,'' he added.

In Jet Airways, the pilots only give the command for evacuation; the side from which it should be initiated is decided by the flight attendants.

There was an element of surprise for passengers who used the overwing exit for evacuation. Unlike heavy aircraft like Boeing 747 and 777 or even single-aisle aircraft like Airbus 320, the overwing exits of Boeing 737s do not deploy an inflatable chute when opened. In a Boeing 737, the passengers have to slide from the leading edge of the wing to its trailing edge, then onto the flaps and fall onto the ground, which would only be a few feet below if the flaps are extended by the commander, as the norms dictate, to a convenient 40 degrees.

''We were not aware that there would be no inflatable slides at the wing exit. Passengers realised it only when they reached the exit, by which time it was not possible to turn back,'' said Srikant Barhate, a passenger onboard the Jet Mumbai-Chennai flight.

[DeathStar-Alpha]

TopTup you are so very true!

[BOAC]

This incident appears to confirm the wisdom of a checklist action on evacuation. 99 time out of 100 we do the evac from a screaming high-speed stop in the sim every 6 months, when, as said, the drill is to lower flaps/open DV etc etc on the slow-down.

A cunning and wise TRE will inject just this sort of scenario into a recurrent - it really is different and VERY easy to rush into an evac with flaps up or even engines running.

[Whippersnapper]

I agree with all that.....but...

I just have never quite agreed that the 737NG EVAC Non-Normal should have been changed to a read-and-do, as a memory checklist it was more practical!

EW73
My feelings too, but it's an airline issue - when Boeing changed it to read and do, most companies followed suit. RYR have a better system of having it a memory checklist that you subsequently redo as "read and do" if circumstances permit. The only problem with that is if someone really stuffs up the sequence and orders the evac over the PA before shutting down the engines, but that's unlikely and I'm sure if it had been done in the sim, the proceedue would become purely read and do again.

[Ocampo]

Because if you're going to evacuate the aeroplane, you do the evacuation checklist, which just happens to include this step:
Quote:
Engine and APU
fire switches (all) . . . . Override and pull

If an engine or APU fire warning occurs:
Illuminated fire switch . . . . . . . . . . Rotate to the stop and hold for 1 second


Well, sure; my Dash 8 evac memo says I have to pull all of the Pull Fuel Off Handles, but is it really necessary doing that with a perfectly normal engine (right engine in this case) even when a couple of steps before you cut the fuel supply via a less dramatic way?

I was thought that, while a procedure is there and it must be followed step by step, sometimes when the situation that called for the procedure was not all that urgent (as in this case) it makes one or two steps a little bit of an overreaction. So I ask again, even though it's an approved procedure, why did he do that for? Or even better, let's rephrase that: Was that really necessary?

They're not suspended because they did a terrific job anyway :rolleyes:

"We were not aware that there would be no inflatable slides at the wing exit. Passengers realised it only when they reached the exit, by which time it was not possible to turn back,'' said Srikant Barhate, a passenger onboard the Jet Mumbai-Chennai flight.

Pay attention you :mad: moron!

[hec7or]

wise TREs are an asset, lots of wisdom and experience to impart.... cunning TREs?? not welcome here old friend.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Well, sure; my Dash 8 evac memo says I have to pull all of the Pull Fuel Off Handles, but is it really necessary doing that with a perfectly normal engine (right engine in this case) even when a couple of steps before you cut the fuel supply via a less dramatic way?
Is it really necessary, I don't know. People with more experience than me might be able to answer that question for you. But if the checklist says do it, and it ain't gonna kill me, then I'll do it. I think it would be a lot easier in court to explain why you did something that is on the checklist, rather than try and explain why you didn't do something that is on the checklist because you thought you knew better than the aircraft manufacturer.

[Ocampo]

Is it really necessary, I don't know. People with more experience than me might be able to answer that question for you.

The very famous experience is the factor who helps you make those decisions. Those are my instructor words, by the way. His rationale seemed valid for me.

But if the checklist says do it, and it ain't gonna kill me, then I'll do it. I think it would be a lot easier in court to explain why you did something that is on the checklist, rather than try and explain why you didn't do something that is on the checklist because you thought you knew better than the aircraft manufacturer.

I just remembered that the very aircraft manual and the company SOP delegate the final authority regarding actions to take when it hits the fan to the PIC whom can decide which procedure could be more suitable for X condition not obviously stated anywhere. I'm yet to see an alleged engine fire checklist/NNC/Emergency Checklist/Memory Item that demands to conduct an evacuation. Remember the crew reportedly didn't have any fire indication whatsoever.

I like what FlyKingfisher said:

I think the crew jumped the gun on this one. If the aircraft was outbound as the TOI report states, they could have just returned to the gate instead of ordering an evac.

It would probably had been a non-event. But it looks like I'm giving more than my regular 2c...

[TopTup]

Checklists are there for a reason. They take the decision making AWAY from the pilot(s), so emotion and stress have less of an impact. Boeing instructors and designers argue over drawn out meetings as to precisely what is written when and how.

While a knowledge of the QRH is very, very useful, pilots let "expectancy" take over and assume they know the checklist and race through it. And of course, everyone knows better than the designers, the testers and manufacturers of the aeroplane!!! :ugh:

The FCOM and QRH even teach you how to use the checklists!!

Memory / Recall Items are also there for a reason, ie when timely action is required. Even then, there are only 2 x instances in aviation that I can think of where there is little room for delay: engine fire and depressurisation. Even then (!!!!) methodical use of the published procedures as recall actions are to be done. The best pilots I've seen do these actions in a deliberate and methodical pace, never panicking and racing.

So, we come full circle. Do we dare question the training standards at this / these airlines? Or should we just blame the pilot doing what he thought was correct as that is all the training he ever knew or understood?

Repeating myself from previuos posts: At Air India I witnessed pilots being checked to line and passed in the sim who could not either fly straight and level with the AP and FD's off (or at times even with FD's ON!), manually fly a circuit or land with a 15 kt cross wind using raw data, and so on.... They were passed by the airline's TRE. So, as far as they were concerned they are competant pilots as the SYSTEM told them they were.

[Rananim]

when Boeing changed it to read and do, most companies followed suit
oh dear,if people only knew the truth..Being modify when airlines have incidents/accidents and the modification is mandated..helios etc..do you think we really need a checklist entitled #Warning Horn#?Same with Boeing SOP change and the evac as well,which in my mind is definitely a MEMORY checklist.Someone screwed up a real evac though,so they changed it to a read and do..now all we need is an accident where checklist delays an evac following a catastrophic fire and theyll change it back.
Its the same principle as FO lands on wet rwy and skids off..reaction is ban all FO landings(last thing you should do of course)..same principle here..evac is obviously not suited to read and do(unless its a non-event)..with a catastrophic fire/smoke situation,I would never read and do despite what some smart alec pedant instructor says.You should know it in your sleep like the engine fire or smoke(another non-memory!!)

[kotakota]

Look , all airlines / training establishments are forever anal about RTO with Engine Fire / Evacuation etc , and all crews should be able to deal with this in their sleep .
I am always amazed at the cock-ups when a Fire is injected at any other phase of flight , ie on the stand , during push-back , during taxi , short finals etc .
Unless a jetty is still attached to the aircraft , a Full-Blown Evacuation has to be considered immediately .
A few well chosen words from the skipper to the copilot along the lines of :-
' Prepare for evacuation ' should alert him/her to depressurise the aircraft / run the Flaps to 40 ( 737 that is ) .
I once ran a sim session that had some slack where we threw in a lot of the above scenarios along with my personal favourite , the engine failure shortly after TO/GA pressed on take-off and engines arrive at Take Off Thrust . Incredible how few crew can keep the aircraft off the grass on that one .
Point is , we gave the crew a lot to take away with them and think about . Without exception , they all thoroughly enjoyed the experience , not just a sim session where they got out and then dismissed from their minds . They were talking about it on the line too , all good for increased situational awareness.
Basically , we need to get away from boring repetitive scenarios too often . Obviously the engine fire / failure at V1 is still the flight at its most vulnerable , but it seems we are missing the boat on the more mundane periods of flight when crew are at their most laidback.

[starvingcfi]

so was it an expat or not?

[NGFellow]

I am guessing that the crew was Indian because with the current anti--expat sentiment if it had been an expat it would have been all over the media and news reports. Then there would be further ramblings about 5000 unemployed CPL's etc.

[Checkboard]

But all agreed that the most serious air safety lapse in Friday's incident occurred when the aft door on the left side of the aircraft was opened for evacuation. ''As the suspected fire was on the left engine, the emergency exits on the left hand side of the aircraft strictly should not have been opened,'' said a commander. The overwing rear exit on the left side, too, was opened, but that would have been done by passengers. ''In such situations, passengers do not pay attention to warnings,'' he added.

In Jet Airways, the pilots only give the command for evacuation; the side from which it should be initiated is decided by the flight attendants.

I don't agree! As there wasn't any fire, then the assessment to open the left hand doors was correct. i.e. Check outside conditions .. no hazard .. open exit. :hmm:

[captjns]

starvingcfi wants to know

so was it an expat or not?

If it had been an expat in the left seat, it would have been headline news on the Times of India and IBN-CNN TV news two days before it happened:eek:.

[xyz21]

What Is The Eligibility Criteria For Appearing In Atpl Exams In India?can We Appear In The Exams Without Having Cpl?i Saw It In Dgca Wesite
What Is The Flying Hrs Requirement

[mivens]

DGCA final report is out. Avherald synopsis:
Accident: Jet Airways B738 at Mumbai on Aug 27th 2010, evacuation during taxi leads to injuries (http://avherald.com/h?article=43028f70/0000&opt=0)


Two off-duty CC deadheading call flight deck on intercom and report fire on left hand donk.
Tower tells flight crew no fire.
No abnormal indications in the cockpit.
Purser who happens to be married to one of the off-duty CC who reported the fire also confirms fire to flight deck

PIC criticised by DGCA for ordering evacuation. FO criticised for not suggesting to shut the engine down and return to the gate on single engine.

It turns out both deadheaders were interpreting the red glow from the anti-collision lights as the presence of fire and the purser checked from a window from which it is not possible to see the engine :ugh:but as PIC with the information available at the time would you have given the order to evacuate?

[despegue]

Ok guys, one important thing because I read a lot of BS here:

During an RTO on B737, the FO SITS ON HIS HANDS AFTER Selecting Flaps 40 (ONLY when passengers are onboard!!!) and announcing to ATC ABC123 Stopping. He/she DOES NOT start manipulating overhead switches but MONITORS THE PIC's actions and CALLS OUT any omissions .

I say again, the "Drill" is not to operate the Outfflow valve NOR is the drill to start an evacuation.

Even the "FLAPS 40" is a suggestion and not a Boeing procedure. It seriously hampers the fire departments views by the way and should only be done if evacuation is imminent. (the only reason for selecting F40) Remember that an evacuation must be a controlled event, where any omission by the crew might result in serious consequences for the passengers and CM's. DO NOT RUSH. Don't they teach that in the sim and on the line anymore?!

A company that has the FO going into the overhead while doing an RTO needs some serious bollocking:=:eek:

[Escape Path]

Well, being India, if events happened as the report says, then what a bunch of useless cabin crew.

I find it sort of perplexing that 4 cabin crew members don't know how the anti-collision light looks like in the night. They not only made one mistake, they made two; feeding wrong information to the flight crew which subsequently provoked an evacuation and then NOT performing the evacuation correctly! :ugh:

[fdr]

Remember that an evacuation must be a controlled event

:eek:

...right....

"let loose the dogs of war..."

The crew have indicated their level of knowledge already, confusing a rotating beacon reflection with an engine fire.... and the passengers have been intent on the briefing to the extent they are disturbed that the over wing slides didn't deploy... yep... "controlled event" is not going to be the adjective to be used in this event, (nor a noun...).

Avoiding confusion in evacs is hard enough on a good day, and this was not one of the better performing crowd.

Good news is probably that the pax next flight will actually listen to the briefing or even read the safety cards. Wouldn't hold my breath for that though....:)


The purser called the other cabin crew to evacuate through the right hand forward and rear doors, but did not instruct to open the L2 door and overwing exits. However, door L2, both left hand overwing exits as well as both doors R1 and R2 and right hand overwing exits were opened. :\

All injured passengers had exited the aircraft through the overwing exists on both left and right hand side.:mad::ugh::\:uhoh::*:}:ok::O:bored::)


Wow! would have been interesting with a real fire from the LH engine...

[captjns]

The crew have indicated their level of knowledge already, confusing a rotating beacon reflection with an engine fire....

You, Little Buckeroo, have indicated your knowledge, or lack thereof, about modern day FLUFs too:eek:.... as aircraft of today's generation are equipped with flashing/strobed beacons rather than rotating beacons.

Don't be hasty to criticize:=.

[curryfan]

There was no engine fire indication in this event in Japan. The reflection of the beacon on a nacelle in some conditions can look like a fire.
INCENDIO FIRE BOEING 737 CHINA AIRLINES NAHA OKINAWA JAPAN 1 - YouTube
Better safe than sorry.

[captjns]

Reflections of flashing beacons are not very visible during daytime operations. The crew of the China Airlines were alerted to visible smoke from various sources which prompted the evacuation.

[Storminnorm]

Took the Fire brigade long enough to get there.
And they only doused the Port side.
Still burning well on the Stbd side.

[Mikehotel152]

Wow, amazing footage: At the start of the film the fire was well alight and it still took 4 min 30 secs for the fire trucks to get to the aircraft. Despite the conflagration, it only took them 15 secs to get it under control and by 30 secs it was substantially out. I note that the Final Report criticises the Fire Services in this case.

It just goes to show how confusing the initial signs from outside the cabin can be to a flightcrew when combined with warnings or lack thereof (as was the case in India and initially in Okinawa) from the fire detection systems. :ooh:

[lomapaseo]

As long as we're playing "what if" and presumptions with news reports.

What would be the likely response of most pilots if the FA announced to the pilot that there was a fire visible under the aircraft's right wing and should they evacuate.

Of course I expect a scan of the instruments, but if nothing was showing on the instruments, what next? ... remember time is of the essence.

since they are on a taxiway and either stopped or moving slowly a fuel leak and pool fire is possible

[Tommy Tilt]

Jet Airways, in its media statement, said the ''crew carried out the evacuation in accordance with standard operating procedures''.

''Preliminary fact-finding by the DGCA has indicated serious procedural lapses in dealing with the emergency and evacuation situation as per existing procedures laid down in aircraft rules,''

Oh dear, oh very dear. Apparently, Jet Airways Chief Operating Officer, Hamid Ali, is in denial yet again. Not content with his catastrophic failings in the "management" of the A320 fleet at Gulf Air (GF072), he again condones excuses for ineffective and sub-standard training leading to "serious procedural lapses" at his new airline.

BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Gulf Air improves offer (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/910743.stm)

"Captain Hamid Ali, has previously rejected reports that pilot error was behind the crash".

Any investigation by the DGCA should start with Mr. Ali and the fact of his prior association with hull loss.

[Writing]

Hi,
Are you an expat pilot? I'm researching a story on expat pilots in India, and I would like very much to speak with an expat pilot who has worked in India or is still here. I need to hear your point of view, as I have interviewed a few Indian commercial pilots. Kindly drop me an email at [email protected] or send me a phone number which I can reach you on. Anonymity will be respected if you still work here or plan to return.
thanks.
---------
I would like to add (in response to the post below) that I have no sinister ulterior motives whatsoever. This is my work profile:
Shruti Ravindran | LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shruti-ravindran/8/700/3a0)
I am merely researching a piece on expat pilots, who the DGCA plans to phase out in the next two years.

[Tommy Tilt]

DO NOT REPLY TO THE REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FROM EXPAT PILOTS BY THIS ALLEGED "WRITER".

DURING HIS TENURE AS DFO AT GULF AIR, HAMID ALI USED ALL METHODS TO FIND PILOTS THAT MAY HAVE POSTED ANY ANTI GULF AIR MESSAGES. HE MAY NOW BE EMPLOYING THE SAME TACTICS IN HIS NEW POST AS CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER AT JET AIRWAYS.

IF THIS WRITER IS LEGITIMATE, HE CAN RESEARCH THIS WEBSITE FOR THE INFORMATION HE REQUESTS.
____________________

A comprehensive, official report of the GF072 crash and the complicity by the gross failings of the department headed by Mr. Hamid Ali (do not call this man Captain), can be found at the following link:

GF072 Final Report (http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2000/a40-ek000823a/htm/a40-ek000823a.html) (click on each blue heading to open the specific section)

Sadly, as evidenced by numerous threads regarding incidents at Jet Airways, it would appear that Mr. Ali condones the same sub-standard and innefective training as he did while DFO at Gulf Air.

[jet_737ng]

Capt Hamid Ali ( dont know if he ever flew ) seems to bring some interesting quotes from people who have worked for him. Coming from a Middle east country where there are zero norms about labour and have never heard about words like democracy or unions has had problems fitting in the indian mindset. The pilots strike in Sept 2009 was a direct result of his high handness in sacking pilots for starting an union . It seems he forgot to check the Indian constitution. in his years in jet airways he has lived up to reptuation (ex gulf air ) ...:rolleyes: