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View Full Version : Walter Mitty Strikes Again


Union Jack
24th Aug 2010, 22:02
According to this report,

Judge Rules Stolen Valor Act Illegal (http://www.military.com/news/article/judge-rules-stolen-valor-act-illegal--.html?ESRC=mr.nl) being a Walt is apparently perfectly acceptable - in California at least:ok:

Well at least until the case goes to appeal .....:=

Jack

rmac
24th Aug 2010, 22:46
More like an illness than a crime if you ask me...can think of a lot worse things that they don't lock people up for very often these days.....

Hydromet
24th Aug 2010, 23:45
In the '60s I worked with a bloke who, when I met him, claimed to be a major in the army reserve, with a war history and a string of medals that would make Audie Murphy jealous. Most of the blokes I worked with at the time were genuine WW II vets, who treated him as a sad joke and maintained a list of his outrageous claims to fame, both military and civilian. However, he was quite an accomplished bullshifter, and for several years organised the Anzac Day function celebrations for a large NSW city, appearing in uniform alongside regular army brass. Over a couple of years, he promoted himself to Lt. Col., and then one day, he was in court, charged with impersonating an officer, convicted and fined a nominal amount.
Fast forward 30 years, a colleague sent me a newspaper clipping from a small country town, where the same gentleman, now a Brigadier, had divided the local RSL (vets organisation), some claiming that he was a fraud, while others claimed that he was a hero whose work during the war had been so secret that his records had been destroyed.

Sad, really.

con-pilot
25th Aug 2010, 20:01
This judge's ruling has already been appealed and I'm sure it will end up in the Supreme Court.

Even though the Stolen Valor Act is now temporally unenforceable, there is still no reason why we cannot expose these slimly bottom feeding, pond scum for what they really are publicly.

That is freedom of speech as well.

rgbrock1
25th Aug 2010, 20:13
You mean like the State of Connecticut's very own attorney general - Richard Blumenthal - who got caught out in his B.S., lying about his service in Vietnam when, in actuality, he never went near that country?

11Fan
25th Aug 2010, 20:20
he never went near that country?

But he thought about it often.

Does that count?

rgbrock1
25th Aug 2010, 20:29
11Fan:

Not only did he "think" about it often he got so used to doing so that he started using terms like "when we deployed to 'nam", "when we took the battle to the enemy", etc.

In other words: a lying sack of scheisse!

chuks
25th Aug 2010, 20:45
Freedom of speech cuts both ways, doesn't it?

Service in the US military is pretty straightforward to document with the DD214, the paper you get upon discharge that details what you did, what rank you held and which medals you were awarded.

There's not much point in asking to see the DD214 if someone tells you they were a door-gunner on a Huey, say but if it's loads of medals for underwater knife-fighting then such a request would not be out of line.

Just as with anything else, if it sounds too good to be true then it probably isn't true! Have a look at what Timmy "Milkman" Martins was claiming, when he is not the only Walt out there, just the latest one to be caught red-handed.

If it turns out that the DD214 is unavailable for some strange reason then ask if you could help him check his records on the Department of Defense web-site. Then he could show everyone proof of what he's claiming to have done for his country. I think all you need for that is his name and either his Social Security Number or his "Service Number" (as in "Name, Rank and Serial Number," the only three things you were to tell the enemy when captured, until we changed the rules). If yer man just cannot fit that into his busy program then you might want to tell him that you are beginning to doubt the truth of his claims, when this is something you will need to talk over with your circle of friends.

I hope this judgment is reversed on appeal. Otherwise I think I can go get some neat stuff for free, just telling people tall tales... "Thanks for letting me test-drive this Corvette! I will be back in about 20 minutes (unless I change my mind)." Hey, free speech...

con-pilot
25th Aug 2010, 20:46
Sad thing is that these people can take a shred of truth and stretch it out to disgusting lies.

For example; I flew over Viet Nam.

That is an absolute fact. There were a lot of US Air Force and Navy pilots that flew over Viet Nam, but never actually set foot in country.





It is also an absolute fact that I was flying biz-jets at the time, it was thirty years after the war and I was never in the military.

RJM
25th Aug 2010, 21:07
I agree with the majority above, but I had to smile at least at the "DD214". Not a 'Service Record' or a 'Discharge Statement' but a, or the, 'DD214'.

Years ago I was at an army camp in the Australian bush and the word went round (like wildfire, as it did) that someone had nicked an 'M34' (or M38 or similar). The item was a machine gun, and especially since we still had live ammunition on the camp at the time (it was before the Incident Of The Shot Cow on our camp), it was regarded very seriously.

But word of the theft didn't go around in completely accurate form. The M38 or whatever became an M35, and our cook became very concerned until it was made clear that while an M38 was a machine gun, an M35 was a pressure-operated petrol stove, one of which wasn't missing. Perfect army logic.

I should write a book, or at least a short story, about that army camp. It made Dad's Army look clinical compared with the way everyone carried on.

Anyway, back to the Hun in the sun .. pocketa-pocketa-pocketa ...

rgbrock1
25th Aug 2010, 21:08
chuks:

There also exists an infamous form better known as the DD-215. Know what that's used for?
That form is used to correct mistakes and omissions on one's DD-214 made by some horse's arse Admin puke. As in: ooops. I forget to annotate his ARCOM. (Army Commendation Medal)
Or, ooops, I meant to enter 9 years and 3 months for his active duty service and not 99 years and 3 months. (The latter I should have let stay on my 214. Would that have given me almost 5 retirements?!!!!)

Cacophonix
25th Aug 2010, 21:47
It made Dad's Army look clinical compared with the way everyone carried on.Well didn't Mr Mainwaring usurp the rank of Captain whereas his sergeant actually had been a Captain (as had John Le Mesurier in real life)?

We live in a strange world. Lowly corporals make themselves Fuhrers whilst dubious politicians become Commander in Chief.

Walter is alive and well at the pinnacle of power and delusion.

hD4EtvzBAsM&feature

RJM
25th Aug 2010, 21:54
I hate to stand up for Hitler, but Fuhrer was at least not an army rank. Although he did make himself commander in chief...

Cacophonix
25th Aug 2010, 21:57
I hate to stand up for Hitler, but Fuhrer was at least not an army rank.

I mentioned the war but I think I got away with it. ;)

RJM
25th Aug 2010, 22:05
Almost ...

tony draper
25th Aug 2010, 22:10
One has to watch Corporals,the French had a small one as well.:uhoh:

RJM
25th Aug 2010, 22:11
and the Flight Lieutenants, if you're in West Africa.

chuks
25th Aug 2010, 23:05
It is on my DD-214! In pencil, on the back, right next to the stamp that reads, "Connecticut $100 Veteran's Bonus Paid."

Führer or Fuehrer just means something like "he who has control" so that I have a Führerschein and must therefore be a Führer, not of a nation but just of certain categories of motor vehicle. Still...

Dr Josef Goebbels had a clubfoot. When speaking with veterans he would often speak as if his limp were due to a war wound and not a birth deformity, when this went unchallenged.

Reichsmarschmallow Hermann Goering was a real-life war hero, having led the famous Richtofen Geschwader and having been awarded the "Blue Max," the highest German military medal. Yet he would do his own uniforms which looked like some of the wilder products of Nudie of Hollywood.

Adolf Hitler, when he was on the way to fame and fortune as Führer, liked to sport a dog-whip for that certain air of command although he was quite dogless at the time.

So there you have three Walts right at the top of the Nazi heirarchy.

Personally, I think that Walts should be squashed like bugs whenever encountered but in the nicest possible way. There is something inherently dangerous in a lie and even moreso in aviation.

bearfoil
25th Aug 2010, 23:13
chuks

Chuks, years ago I was called for Jury Duty in San Mateo County. (California). It was a felony drug case, I sat down and paid attention. After awhile I realized the poor sap was up for offering to sell some significant amount of Peruvian Marching Powder to an u/c cop. After lunch, we were seated and asked if we had questions.

Bear. "You mean it is illegal to simply offer for sale in the course of Bar talk even when one has none?"

Prosecutor (turning red, veins bulging) "Yes, Mr. Bear it certainly IS!!! Your honor this juror is excused." Walt of great Cocaine was released, charges dropped.

bear wie schlamm

con-pilot
25th Aug 2010, 23:15
I had forgotten all about this.

Many, many years ago I was walking in downtown Oklahoma City and I passed a guy wearing the uniform of a US Air Force Colonel. Only one problem, his wings and ribbons were on the right side of his jacket.

It took me a second to realize what I had just seen. About that time a police car was driving by, I flagged down the police officers and told them what I had just seen. They then drove down the street to where this guy wearing the uniform was at, got out, talked to him and then as I was still watching, they placed him into handcuffs, put him the back of the police car and drove off. I never heard anymore about it.

bearfoil
25th Aug 2010, 23:16
chuks

Chuks, years ago I was called for Jury Duty in San Mateo County. (California). It was a felony drug case, I sat down and paid attention. After awhile I realized the poor sap was up for offering to sell some significant amount of Peruvian Marching Powder to an u/c cop. After lunch, we were seated and asked if we had questions.

Bear. "You mean it is illegal to simply offer for sale in the course of Bar talk even when one has none?"

Prosecutor (turning red, veins bulging) "Yes, Mr. Bear it certainly IS!!! Your honor this juror is excused." Walt of great Cocaine was released, charges dropped.

bear wie schlamm und Fuhrerlos....

G-CPTN
25th Aug 2010, 23:34
I'm sure that Walts develop from an early age - even at primary school there were pupils who would spin stories. If these were believed then more would follow.

I recall finding one child who claimed to be my cousin, so firmly that even I began to wonder if I had an undiscovered branch of my family.

Some evolved into simple dishonesty such as stealing dinner money whilst others held sway with tales of what they had done during their holidays (or before they had joined the school in the case of new arrivals).

No doubt the success of their yarn spinning encouraged them to go on in later life to greater deceptions. In time the perpetators come to believe their spiel and accept it as truth and the stories grow in substance with each subsequent repeating.

Remember, successful confidence tricksters are (by definition) plausible, and they hone their skills with every success. Someone who surrounds themselves with the trappings (even if they are 'borrowed' or f. . . unded by fraud) strikes an aura that supports their claim - turning up in a flash motor whilst dressed in expensive clothing and engaging 'first class' accommodation helps to set the scene much better than turning up in a battered vehicle wearing unfashionable clothing and settling for the cheapest room. Presentation is everything . . .

robtheblade
26th Aug 2010, 00:26
A few years ago my ex got involved with a guy who told her he used to work for the BBC as a cameraman.

He had been filming in Iraq and had obtained documentary proof that Sadam had no WMD. On his return he told his boss about his “conclusive evidence”. Two days later he was summoned to BBC headquarters, sacked on the spot, told that he would not work for any major television company again and if he did would probably be killed. This was on the orders of the British Government who wanted his scoop suppressed.

As I was paying to put a roof over his head I had no reason to like the guy at all so I phoned a friend who had worked at BBC news for twenty years to ask him if this was possible and if he knew him. Surprise surprise, never heard of him and his scoop, if true, would have on him awards.

Still see “Walt” now and again and him that to take great delight at calling him that to his face.:O:O

notmyC150v2
26th Aug 2010, 01:30
A close friend of my wife's and mine (known her since we were 13) was dating this guy who was one of the biggest Walts I have ever come accross.

As soon as I mentioned a qualification I had or a job I had held, he also had it and done it earlier.

When I met him I was in the middle of a BComm degree and had been a Baker for 8 years. He told me that he was a Pastry Chef and did his BComm degree straight out of school. He also said that he did his apprenticeship in the Army and served all around the world.

He was at that time unemployed when Bakers, Pastry Cooks etc could write their own ticket. His explanation was that he needed to be full time carer for his kids because his ex-wife was a drug addict.

Turned out that his "ex" wife wasn't "ex" at all and the closest he had been to a bakery was the front counter on a Sunday Morning.

Apparently he was lousy in bed as well...

Quite frankly all that Bullshit is just too much hard work as far as I am concerned.

Worrals in the wilds
26th Aug 2010, 01:50
Wow, he was Walting about being a cook! I understood that was almost unheard of, what with all the options for being a fake SASR and Commando type...
Walting With Confidence - ARRSEpedia (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Walting_With_Confidence) . I know it's been posted before, but some people might not have seen it.

An ex SASR mate reckons that if everyone who claimed to have been with the SAS had actually served with the SAS the regiment would be the size of the Napoleonic army.

Quite frankly all that Bullshit is just too much hard work as far as I am concerned.

Agreed, and so difficult to keep track of.

bearfoil
26th Aug 2010, 02:03
Some people would climb a tree, stand on their head and weave a yarn so complex, their success is doomed. Rather than stand on one's two feet, spit the Truth, and take names. It's a confidence thing......

innit?

OldCessna
26th Aug 2010, 02:48
I'm surprised there has been no mention of "The Guvnor"

Do a search on this website.

Tyres O'Flaherty
26th Aug 2010, 06:10
Point of order.

Most tremendous piece of shite (arguable) in human history he may have been, but Adolf the monotesticular was a decorated for heroism Frontsoldat

sitigeltfel
26th Aug 2010, 06:27
Adolf the monotesticular was a decorated for heroism Frontsoldat Hmmmmm........

Adolf Hitler was a loner and 'rear-area pig' according to his WWI regiment | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1303804/Adolf-Hitler-loner-rear-area-pig-according-WWI-regiment.html)

Its in the Mail, so it must be true ;)

V2-OMG!
26th Aug 2010, 06:55
Bearing in mind the remaining WW2 vets are now quite elderly, if I saw an older gentleman with medals askew or in the wrong place, I would strike up a conversation to get a better idea of his mental capacity.

The more-recent Vietnam "Walts" are hard to take; there are three fakes for every bona fide vet at that black granite wall in Washington.

Bruce Wayne
26th Aug 2010, 08:45
The more-recent Vietnam "Walts" are hard to take; there are three fakes for every bona fide vet at that black granite wall in Washington.


i've known several vietnam vets, all of them never really discussed their service unless asked and the stories they have shared are less about engaging the enemy single handed but more about that banailty and bizzare occurance that arise.


that seems to me the acid test, if they dont really talk about it, they are vets.

Worrals in the wilds
26th Aug 2010, 09:26
I think that goes for successful people of all types whether they are returned servicemen, business people, movie stars or otherwise.
People who skite often turn out to be underachievers when you cross-check their boasts.

BlueWolf
26th Aug 2010, 10:01
Walt is alive and well in the Global Warming thread, pretending to be a climate scientist. :D

RJM
26th Aug 2010, 11:47
I think we're all Walts to some extent, though not always the obvious 'my car is an F-14 and this road is a carrier deck....' type.

I suggest we comprise who we are, who we would like to be and who we think we are. Then there's what others think of us and what we think they think of us.

Who can say that we always think we are exactly who we actually are?

Parapunter
26th Aug 2010, 11:48
There's a bloke works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis...

RJM
26th Aug 2010, 11:50
F*cking imposter!! :cool:

RJM
26th Aug 2010, 11:53
There was an inmate at an asylum, well-known for his delusion that he was Napoleon.

A visitor was taken to meet him.

Visitor: "Are you Napoleon?"

Inmate: "No, but that's who I think I am."

Worrals in the wilds
26th Aug 2010, 12:21
A friend of mine worked for the local State Government mental health department. Come performance review time, said friend and her colleagues were told 'you have to seek more client feedback'.
The response: 'but they're mad, that's why they're our clients' fell on deaf ears and they were forced to gain more feedback, which they did via a rather alarming 'open mic' night. Clients included a middle aged man of African descent who was convinced he was Princess Diana, and always wore a large dressy race day hat and satin gloves to reassure people of his identity :ugh::rolleyes:.


Who can say that we always think we are exactly who we actually are?

Shades of a mostly forgotten 1990s grunge 'hit' Pepper...'You never know just how you look through other people's eyes.'

chuks
26th Aug 2010, 13:14
I visited the Viet Nam Memorial late on the evening of July 3rd, 1987 and what a fascinating scene that was!

I didn't count them but there were quite a few people my age who all had tales to tell about their time in "the Nam" and their hard times thereafter. It struck me how all the ones I met had new jungle fatigues bedizened with medals and the few I listened to seemed a bit vague about some of the details of this "Nam" place, when those didn't match up with what I remembered from my time there.

Mind you, I remember one day in Saigon when I was out and about with a fellow G.I. We met a war correspondent who invited us up to the roof of the Caravelle for a few beers and to play for us a tape he had made of a trip on a PBR, lots of shouting and shooting I couldn't make any sense of at all.

My fellow G.I. then started in to tell of a rocket attack we had recently enjoyed there at Tan Son Nhut. What actually happened was that one rocket landed in the Motor Pool parking lot, about 100 metres left and then another rocket landed out on the VNAF ramp about 100 metres right and then we waited for Number Three which should land between the two? You can guess that since I am sat here writing this we just cowered in our slit trench being nibbled by mosquitoes until it was time to get up and go back to bed and that was that, darn it! No Rocket Number Three, cheating me of my greatest war story ever, how I got blown up.

Up there on the roof of the Caravelle, though, the hot shrapnel was pinging off our helmets and things were getting very hectic indeed on that night in the recent past, at least as told by my brother in arms!

I was just sat there with my mouth open as my man was turning to me for confirmation of just how hairy that had been, ignoring my protests about that not being the way things had gone.

Meanwhile, our war correspondent had moved on to tell of his time with "Leaping Lima," some squad of Marines he had written up for the Podunk Daily Bugle, to great acclaim. Neither one cared about the truth of anything; it was just, "Oh yeah? You had a bullet bounce off your helmet? Well, I had a bullet bounce off my teeth!"

So if someone could Walt to that extent in the face of an eyewitness, just try and imagine how wild his stories must have become once he was back in the States!

I don't know; perhaps they should make a rule that if you want to show up at the Viet Nam Memorial in uniform then you need to show a DD-214. As it is, I think most of the guys there are Walts, at least the ones needing to tell everyone what they got up to back there in "the Nam."

radeng
26th Aug 2010, 13:14
I know two guys who were in the US armed forces during Vietnam. One decided that there was no way he was going to lie in mud and get shot at, so as he described it, he 'dodged the draft'. By signing on in the US Navy for 7 years....He said the other advantage over avoiding mud and bullets was that they taught him electronics, and as a result, he could get a decent job afterwards. The other one said that in those days, if on joining a unit, you said 'Please Sir, I can type', life got much easier, although I suspect that as ground radio fitter, there wasn't as much mud as for infantrymen.

Lon More
26th Aug 2010, 15:03
Controversy surrounding President Bush's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy) military record.

rgbrock1
26th Aug 2010, 15:09
Lon:

I am certainly no Bush apologist/defender by any sense of the imagination but, yes, his military service record did come into question on several occasions. But giving credit where credit is due, he did indeed serve in the military. Whether he completed it properly or not remains the question.

But at least he didn't receive 43 quadzillion deferments because of having "better things to do". (So said Dick Dastardly Cheney.)

chuks
26th Aug 2010, 15:14
He's still a four-letter word to me but not "W-A-L-T."

GWB never made any big claims (that made the news, anyway) about being some sort of war hero. What the fuss is about is almost the opposite, that he was some kind of reluctant warrior, just doing the bare minimum to stay out of active duty in Viet Nam.

A Walt would be saying that he was an F102 pilot when he was not. Here, Bush was a real F102 pilot, just perhaps one who did not want to go to war or even to work very hard at his job in the Air National Guard. I don't much like the guy but I don't see where he could fairly be accused of Walting.

bearfoil
26th Aug 2010, 15:43
There is an old F-102 at the local mothballed base. It is mostly all engine, not very many instruments, Model "T" type gauges, and a strut right in the field of vision of the pilot.I climbed into the shredded seat and imagined what it would be like to fly. After a few seconds of reverie, I clambered out of the cockpit quickly.

At night, in olive green cloud, George Bush flew this dinosaur on instruments, successfully, many times.

He may be dumb (who would take off in such a beast) but he has big ones. Big.

Every discussion I read about George Bush has to involve lesser mortals than he. I am one of said lesser types.

If he flew this thing in service to his country, he should have been elected by acclamation.

bear

MagnusP
26th Aug 2010, 15:51
GWB was never dumb. He was a pretty fair achiever at school and university, and as someone else has commented, you don't get handed the F102 if you're a muppet. He rather neatly reshaped his image to good ol' boy despite his undoubtedly privileged background. He may not have been the most articulate man to hold his high office, and I didn't like his politics, but I think that, as a man, there is much to admire about him.

Blacksheep
26th Aug 2010, 15:55
Our Physics teacher "Bullshit Ben" was a Walt. He variously flew Spitfires in the Bob, a Lancaster over Berlin, was in the Observer Corps and an Air Raid Warden. That's when he wasn't busy in the London Fire Brigade during the Blitz. I called his bluff one day and he flew into a purple rage. He gave me marks of 10% in my Physics mocks which meant I couldn't sit the subject at GCE. I sat and passed with no further lessons in the subject a year later while serving in the RAF (which is incidentally why I'm opposed to pupils being graded by teachers rather than sitting exams) so "Walts" aren't always harmless figures of fun.

con-pilot
26th Aug 2010, 18:58
But at least he didn't receive 43 quadzillion deferments because of having "better things to do". (So said Dick Dastardly Cheney.)

True, but don't forget that Joe Biden had the exact same number and types of deferments as Cheney.

But for some reason ya don't hear too much about Biden and his deferments. :p

Sirikit
26th Aug 2010, 19:10
How do you know when a man is lying?

When his lips move!:ok:

rgbrock1
26th Aug 2010, 19:13
con:

I'm well aware of Biden's deferments: both number and types. Which is, in my mind anyway, just as despicable.

The difference is that perhaps Biden thought he had "better things to do". Cheney simply had the gall to come out and say it. (And then became SecDef. How the hell did that work out?)

Sirikit:

When this man's lips move, it's not necessarily because I'm talking!!! :mad::ok:

Lonewolf_50
26th Aug 2010, 19:34
Magnus, it is my opinion that GWB was in over his head, Peter Principle Style. He peaked as Gov of Texas, in terms of fitting talent to task.

Lonewolf_50
26th Aug 2010, 19:55
rg:

Cheney was a decent Sec Def, but I was disappointed in his performance as VP.

rgbrock1
26th Aug 2010, 20:02
Lonewolf:

He may have been a decent SecDef in your view but in my view to hold the highest civilian title in the Department of Defense, thus having a vast amount of control over all things military, whilst having received numerous deferments due to having "better things to do", smells to high heaven of hypocrisy.

It is also my view that anyone who received, or may receive, a deferment is no longer eligible for any position within the DoD, civilian or otherwise.

11Fan
26th Aug 2010, 20:04
Should we apply that same rule to the CIC?

rgbrock1
26th Aug 2010, 20:07
Yes, to the CIC as well.

Note that I am not saying if you did not serve you can't hold those "lofty" positions.
But. on the matter of deferments: yes!

I stand corrected about Dick Dastardly's quote. It was not 'i had better things to do'.

The exact quote was: ""I had other priorities in the '60s than military service."

Which is equally a kick in the arse. And especially to those who did serve during the 60's.

Cheney testified during his confirmation hearings in 1989 that he received deferments to finish a college career that lasted six years rather than four, owing to sub par academic performance and the need to work to pay for his education. Initially, he was not called up because the selective service system was only taking older men.

When he became eligible for the draft, he applied for four deferments in sequence. He applied for his fifth exemption on January 19, 1966, when his wife was about 10 weeks pregnant. He was granted 3-A status, the "hardship" exemption, which excluded men with children or dependent parents. In January 1967, Cheney turned 26 and was no longer eligible for the draft.

con-pilot
26th Aug 2010, 20:14
Well, he went to a lot more trouble avoiding the draft that Clinton; Slick Willy just moved to England. :p

I for one really do not to talk about deferments, as I had one.







And no it was not a mental deferment (I know what you all are thinking), it was a physical one. :p

11Fan
26th Aug 2010, 20:17
Gotta hand it to Dick for knowing how to "work the system".

Maybe some time on the rifle range would have done him some good though.

Sir, The Range Is Clear. Firerers, Watch Your Lanes.

rgbrock1
26th Aug 2010, 20:19
A physical deferment, con, is a whole 'nuther thing. That is not what I mean.

The sickening deferments were the ones based on "I had other priorities". Or "I had better things to do".

Which is code-word for "I'm a pussy."