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green granite
24th Aug 2010, 08:13
The lunatics are trying to run the asylum again:

Don't label heroin users as 'junkies' - Drug Commission
The report said the government must tackle what it calls the "extreme prejudice" against drug users

People should stop calling heroin users "junkies" or "addicts", an influential think tank on drugs has said.

The UK Drug Policy Commission said such names stigmatised users and made it more difficult to get off drugs.

A report suggested that the policing of drugs on the streets and methadone programmes forcing users to go to chemists were "publicly humiliating".

Instead, the report said that British society needed to show more compassion towards drug users.

Authors of the six-month study said the terms "junkie" and "addict" were distrustful and judgmental and led to feelings of low self-worth among drug users.

Full article: Calling drug users 'junkies' hinders recovery, says study | Politics | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/aug/24/stigmatising-problem-drug-users-affects-recovery)

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2010, 08:24
The PC brigade always go for the ostrich option and stick their heads in the sand. Their only way of tackling a problem is to disguise the label that identifies it.

Meanwhile CMD has the solution.........

Cameron to push ahead with 'cold turkey' drug policy - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7959320/Cameron-to-push-ahead-with-cold-turkey-drug-policy.html)

Blacksheep
24th Aug 2010, 08:30
There is only one certain cure for heroin addiction and I'm afraid it does involve extreme prejudice. There are cases of heroin addicts overcoming their addiction and returning to being useful members of society - Eric Clapton springs to mind - but in general they're a hopeless case. :(

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 08:52
heroin was in the vernacular referred to as junk. Quite literally it is.

hence, junkie.

People should stop calling heroin users "junkies" or "addicts", an influential think tank on drugs has said.


an addict is defined as someone who has developed a substance dependence...

Substance dependence.....

"When an individual persists in use of alcohol or other drugs despite problems related to use of the substance, substance dependence may be diagnosed. Compulsive and repetitive use may result in tolerance to the effect of the drug and withdrawal symptoms when use is reduced or stopped"

heroin has significant withdrawl symptoms. As such.. an addict.

The UK Drug Policy Commission said such names stigmatised users and made it more difficult to get off drugs.

Rubbish.. there is no way of getting off something like heroin that is not difficult

A report suggested that the policing of drugs on the streets and methadone programmes forcing users to go to chemists were "publicly humiliating".

mmm.. yes, because this is so f**king dignified...

http://heroinaddictionhelpguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/odddd.jpg


Instead, the report said that British society needed to show more compassion towards drug users.

No. The UK Drug Policy Commission needs a foot up it's ar$e.

Authors of the six-month study said the terms "junkie" and "addict" were distrustful and judgmental and led to feelings of low self-worth among drug users.

mmm because drug users delve into drug use and up like the picture above because of a warm and fuzzy feeling and high self worth.


morons.

Tigs2
24th Aug 2010, 08:54
Instead, the report said that British society needed to show more compassion towards drug users.

Right, we must all remember that. Next time a poor drug user breaks open my car again and rips out any electrical item they believe will pay for a fix, perhaps I ought to leave a pair of gloves on the windscreen to make sure they don't cut their hands. Maybe an envelope of cash on the passenger seat with a note on the front saying.

'You poor thing sorry you had to cause criminal damage to my car to get your next fix. Take this 100 and go and get yourself a jolly good meal and a new pair of Jeans. Make sure you get at least 500 for the audio equipment and the GPS.'

Cacophonix
24th Aug 2010, 09:11
As for the naming of things or conditions one should endeavour to be definitive and descriptive without being pejorative. Surely one can describe addiction as addiction, whether it be to alcohol or one of the other assortment of drugs.Calling someone a junkie is to my mind pejorative however and shows a lack of courtesy at the very least.

On Mr Cameron's pledge to reduce or remove benefits for those addicts who don't follow a course of treatment or rehabilitation, such fine sounding bites cut a dash on the front page of the Daily Heil or the Telegraph but do little to convey the inadequacy of services and funding to treat or rehabilitate the millions of people in this country who are addicted in some form (alcohol etc). Perhaps he will seek wiser counsel when he looks at the comparative costs of ensuring more prison space, treatment centres etc, vis a vis just paying benefits. As for removing benefits does he not realise that one of the primary causes of crime in many areas is theft based upon drug addiction. Perhaps he will vote a large increase in funding to put more policemen on the beat?

Given the experiences of an old friend of mine, who as a result of his own failings and a tragic life became an alcoholic, I am highly sceptical of Mr Cameron's stance. My friend is a well educated man from a middle class backgound who has been seeking treatment for his addiction for over 18 months now. If an educated man is unable to find a place in the current inadequate system what hope do the many illiterate and damaged people who haunt our streets have?

NF

Pontius Navigator
24th Aug 2010, 09:31
The predilication for calling a spade a flat metal, manual ground opening instrument is not new.

We tender hearted English have for years refused to eat cows, bulls, horses, hens, sheep and pigs. We do eat lambs however but we call it lamb and not the darling little things that scamper around the field. Similarly we don't see beef, pork or bacon in the wild although we do see some porkers.

We are now encouraged to call people FAT so what should we call societies chemically castrated misfits?

Flyt3est
24th Aug 2010, 09:57
The whole attitude that someone gets their sorry ass hooked on this sh1t, then it's up to the state to sort it out grips my sh1t. I'd give them a triple dose.. good riddance.

Junkies, crack heads, smack heads, druggies.. sorry if this hurts your feelings you poor little loves.. get over it :mad:


Rant over.. jeez what a waste of taxpayers money.. that and the BBC going to court to try and hide the fact that Ben Collins is the Stig.. whats next?? The mind boggles!!

critter592
24th Aug 2010, 10:14
Who paid for this half-a:mad:sed "study"? (Stupid question, I know.)

More huggy-fluffy PC bolleaux.

Take yer so-called "study", roll into a not-so-tight tube, and shove it up yer a:mad:. Then f:mad: off.

Rant over.

If the chaps who share my views on druggies (Bruce Wayne, Flyt3est et al) would like to run for Parliament, you have my vote...

lexxity
24th Aug 2010, 10:32
If an educated man is unable to find a place in the current inadequate system what hope do the many illiterate and damaged people who haunt our streets have?


What about AA? Daily meetings are a bloody good start on the road to recovery. The old adage applies, you have to want to help yourself before others can help you. Harsh but true.

For the most part nobody forces that drink/drug on the user. I am not include those who are hooked on drugs via there pimp/trafficker, which is a whole other subject and debate.

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 10:36
If the chaps who share my views on druggies (Bruce Wayne, Flyt3est et al) would like to run for Parliament, you have my vote...


i'll have my dip$hit campaign manager contact you. :E

sitigeltfel
24th Aug 2010, 10:36
The current policy of treating the junkies and pursuing low level dealers is misplaced. Political Correctness emasculates the police from naming and targetting the "communities" that are responsible for the influx of drugs from their homelands. If the police had their shackles loosened, and politicians backed them, then a large amount of the traffic could be stopped.

At the moment all they are doing is following the Darwinian principle which gets rid of the incompetents at the bottom of the food chain and allows the savvy ones to flourish.

Gainesy
24th Aug 2010, 10:36
Just looking at that pic, isn't it bad workmanship to have all the noggins in line like that?

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 10:44
lexxity,

true AA is a good start, though there has to be some personal stand made at some point. i don't subscribe to the AA attitude, where former alcoholics, who have been dry a number of years still refer to themselves as alcoholics.

that's still hiding in a bottle. you were an alcoholic, but don't drink now so you're not. drop the past and move forward don't keep clinging to addiction as crutch.

same with drug abusers. its hiding from the reality that surrounds themselves. if you want to stop, then stop. and move on from it.

those that use drugs due to being locked in a cycle of hooking or being trafficked for nefarious reasons are doing the same thing escaping from the reality of the situation and deferring control of their life to someone else.

trafficked or being prostituted, walk in to any police station or outreach center and help IS there and readily available to those who WANT it.

considering pejoratives.

this whole thing for people being victims...

it's like when someone is in court for kiddie fiddling, the excuse they were abused as a child is oft a defence. no it not. if they were abused as a child then they would know what it put them through.

in respect of junkies, being called something else, considering them as victims or calling heroin 'happiness in a syringe' or whatever euphamism would be used is playing to it.

calling a junkie a junkie should be the motivation for them to not be a junkie. you dont want to be a junkie, then stop doing junk.

a kick up the arse will do more than a f:mad:king group hug.

bingofuel
24th Aug 2010, 10:57
Okay, lets think aout this.
Drug addicts are addicted to controlled substances.
Possession of a controlled substance is acriminal offence.
If you are using a controlled substance, at some point you must possess it.

Lets call them CRIMINALS!!!

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 10:57
Just looking at that pic, isn't it bad workmanship to have all the noggins in line like that?


the builders were stoned.

Flyt3est
24th Aug 2010, 10:59
Okay, lets think aout this.
Drug addicts are addicted to controlled substances.
Possession of a controlled substance is acriminal offence.
If you are using a controlled substance, at some point you must possess it.

Lets call them CRIMINALS!!!



Damn good idea.. How much did you charge for that report fella??

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 11:02
The current policy of treating the junkies and pursuing low level dealers is misplaced. Political Correctness emasculates the police from naming and targetting the "communities" that are responsible for the influx of drugs from their homelands. If the police had their shackles loosened, and politicians backed them, then a large amount of the traffic could be stopped.

At the moment all they are doing is following the Darwinian principle which gets rid of the incompetents at the bottom of the food chain and allows the savvy ones to flourish.


or just send them out to the 'stan. that'll cut down the drug trafficking industry in one move, reduce drug related crime and put the junkies right into the heartland of the product and when it comes to rules of engagement with the taliban, well, smack heads have none.

i'm seeing some more benefits to this idea already....

angels
24th Aug 2010, 11:06
Having mixed with an eclectic bunch of alcoholics, druggies and nervous wrecks whilst recovering from my own mental breakdown -- in which alcohol played a big part towards the end -- there are some of you here who are taking a way too simplistic stance.

Bruce - your approach is Pythonesque, as in their piss take out of Blue Peter.

"How to rid the world of all known diseases."

"Tell the doctors to find cures sharpish."

if you want to stop, then stop. and move on from it.

They're addicts for crying out loud. It doesn't happen that way.

An alcoholic remains an alcoholic, even if he's not had a drink for years. His/her problem is, as one of their mantras goes, "One drink is too many, 50 aren't enough." IE No matter how long they've been dry, if they have one drink they're off the rails again.

The junkies I met/know didn't give a toss what they were called.

I remain good friends with some of them, now back as functioning members of society, thanks to expensive private treatment.

The City has a surprisingly large drug taking culture. I know several coke heads who survive despite their habits, but sadly have lost a couple of friends to the stuff.

As I say, this is not as simple as many would think.

BlueDiamond
24th Aug 2010, 11:07
Authors of the six-month study said the terms "junkie" and "addict" were distrustful and judgmental and led to feelings of low self-worth among drug users. So ... let me get this straight here ... being called a junkie and an "addict" hinders their recovery etc. etc. but being a junkie and an addict causes their self esteem no problem?

Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

lexxity
24th Aug 2010, 11:18
trafficked or being prostituted, walk in to any police station or outreach center and help IS there and readily available to those who WANT it.

And what if you don't speak any English? The help is only there if the children/women know where to look and who to ask and how to ask for that help.

Anyway sorry back to the topic under discussion.

BlueWolf
24th Aug 2010, 11:21
Political Correctness, like pacifism, anorexia, addiction, and many other conditions, is a mental illness.

It needs to be recognised and dealt with accordingly.

Seriously.

Parapunter
24th Aug 2010, 11:33
We have experienced Heroin addiction in our family at very close quarters. I laugh at the outraged Daily Fail brigade who say here that no one is forced to take drugs, it's a choice, there should be no sympathy, no treatment, pull yourself together, die quickly.

These people, these unknowing, cosseted lives have not seen what I have seen. If you had you would not make such blithe pronouncements in such pin sharp black & white.

I wish I could live a life so unfettered by doubt, shades of grey, misery and heartbreak, that I could stand up here and be counted among the no doubt battalion. But I can't. I have had to witness lives led down the wrong path, a mother's despair without end, the absence of hope, the police at 6am at the door, the headlines in the local paper, prison, stealing, the knock at the door at midnight asking for a 'loan', funerals.

These things are not black & white, they are not straightforward lifestyle choices and if you believe they are, you haven't been close to them at all.

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 11:43
These people, these unknowing, cosseted lives have not seen what I have seen.


That's equally judgemental.

some have.

Storminnorm
24th Aug 2010, 11:46
Well said Parapunter.
Been through all that sort of Crap ourselves.
(And, of course, the battles in the Family Courts for custody.)
It was painful, but thankfully was sorted out in the right way.

CherokeeDriver
24th Aug 2010, 11:53
Mrs C-D was involved within the criminal justice system for several years, a while ago.

Most of her "customers" were heroin addicts. It totally and utterly fecks up your life. Her customers were young, old, working class, upper class. Educated, Professional, English speaking, Foreign.

Heroin doesn't discriminate.

I wonder how the "Notting Hill" set who enjoy a handful (or two) of the colombian party power on a Saturday night feel about this article?

Angels - good to see you back. I think we've both seen the "excesses" that some of our colleages indulge in. Heroin is very rare in the City - Cocaine is as common as sparking water on a dinner table.

CD

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 12:04
Like i said above..



A report suggested that the policing of drugs on the streets and methadone programmes forcing users to go to chemists were "publicly humiliating".


dying like this with needle stuck in your arm isn't dignified.

http://www.narconon.ca/images/email/2009/drugawareness/heroin/009.jpg



it needs to be called as it is

heroin is nothing more than injecting $hit into a vein. nothing glamorous about it, nothing rock and roll about it.

how about 'happiness in a syringe' or injecting a rainbow ?

Parapunter
24th Aug 2010, 12:09
I think we all know what a dead junkie looks like without the emotive pictures adding to the debate. And where here has anyone said it's glamorous or rock & roll?

vulcanised
24th Aug 2010, 12:53
How come all these 'think tanks' are said to be influential?

I was going to say 'and who pays for them', but I have a nasty idea I know the answer.

Blacksheep
24th Aug 2010, 13:27
The City has a surprisingly large drug taking culture. I'm hardly surprised to learn that the thieving rascals who plundered the world economy were nothing but a bunch of raving drug addicts. :rolleyes:

The enforcers are not making a significant inroad into the drug trade; despite seizing several tonnes of cocaine every year and the drug wars going on in Colombia and Mexico that even national armies cannot handle. How many nose's doses does a couple of hundred tonnes service? How many armfuls of "shit" are growing in the fields of Afghanistan? The poppy fields stretch as far as the eye can see. How many hundreds of thousands of hopeless cases are out there shooting that stuff up?

Now, how does that happen?

One of our extended family started drug taking while he was a 14 year old schoolboy. First with free cigarettes handed out by the 'kool' guy from the amusement arcade. Then free ganja that gave a lift and was fun. Stronger free gifts followed and another group of teenagers were on the slippery slope that ends in a back alley with a candle, a spoon and a needle. Pushers are just that - they're the marketing team who lead the way and create the market. Jo doesn't do drugs any more - he got religion and was 'saved' - but he's a total wreck. He weighs just 40 Kgs and though he's only fifty years old he looks like he's over eighty. While at the market with his mother, he was mistaken for her husband.

Malaysia and Singapore both execute drug dealers - scores of them every year. They even have triple-rope gallows to keep up with the workload but it makes no difference. The marketing teams know their stuff and the profits are worth the risk. You can't catch the real top men because they're the same top men who run the police, large business organizations and all the way up to the government itself. I don't know how to deal with this problem and have nothing to contribute in that direction, but one thing is for certain: calling junkies by any other name isn't going to restore their self respect or get them off the stuff. It takes more drastic measures like religion to do that.

Rollingthunder
24th Aug 2010, 13:30
I agree. We should all call them S**t for brains A**holes, we would be better off without.

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 14:56
parapunter.

the pictures are not meant for emotive purposes, but are fact. There's no argument that heroin is ugly and horrific. It is what it is that should not be hidden or detratced from with any other name or euphamism.

as sitigeltfel stated:

The PC brigade always go for the ostrich option and stick their heads in the sand. Their only way of tackling a problem is to disguise the label that identifies it.


something like controlled substance abuse, like heroin addiction needs to faced in it gory reality.

to quoute blacksheep:

The enforcers are not making a significant inroad into the drug trade; despite seizing several tonnes of cocaine every year and the drug wars going on in Colombia and Mexico that even national armies cannot handle. How many nose's doses does a couple of hundred tonnes service? How many armfuls of "shit" are growing in the fields of Afghanistan? The poppy fields stretch as far as the eye can see. How many hundreds of thousands of hopeless cases are out there shooting that stuff up?

Now, how does that happen?

So, how does it happen ?

The reasons and circumstances are varied as the ondividuals that use and abuse. but you know what, if the true horrific nature of what it is, is in the public eye and not brushed under the carpet with euphamistic terminology, then if that stops 1 or 2 or twenty from never going near the stuff, then thats a start.

it doesnt matter what end of society one is from it's something that too many people will have borne personal witness to.

hiding heroin addiction behind some PC huggy fluff name detracts from the true ugliness of what it is and to come from The UK Drug Policy Commission, i maintain, they need a foot up the ass.

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 14:59
The damage to the economy was triggered by Democrat attempts at eco-social engineering followed by UK de-regulation - of which the banks took advantage


and the Notting Hill huggy fluff PC brigade. once the regulations were removed the flood gates opened and the dam emptied and its going to take a long time to refill.

sea oxen
24th Aug 2010, 15:48
Hmm, I am unconvinced that we can explain the woes wrought by heroin through its own effects - in and of itself, it does not cause mendacity.

However, this (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/junkies-to-be-renamed-%27heroin-buffs%27-201008243031/) is possibly the way forward :)

SO

Moira
24th Aug 2010, 18:09
BruceWayne

the pictures are not meant for emotive purposes

Maybe not, but nonetheless to me it seems coldhearted to post this kind of picture right after at least two people have indicated that at some point they were confronted with drug addiction from really nearby.

Tigs2
24th Aug 2010, 18:19
Moira

So should those people wear blinkers when they walk around a major city in case they see people such as those in the photos at the top of the thread? I have had someone very close to me with a major drug addiction, and the photos don't bother me a jot. They just remind me what my relative would have looked like had we not all worked him through the problem. It's life, and sometimes it's tough.

Bruce Wayne
24th Aug 2010, 18:33
moira,

a friend of mine's corpse was found in similar repose still with the needle in his arm when the police broke down his front door after the neighbours complained of the smell.

perhaps a my little pony picture would be more fluffy.

heroin is not fluffy and euphamisms and not accepting the ugliness of it does no one any favours.

he came from a wealthy background and didnt steal or resort to crime to feed his addiction.

he was an addict, addicted to heroin. it cost him his life. there's no dignity in addiction. it was nasty and the reality of it needs to be in the open not hidden away.

perhaps at the time, if such media was available, the stark horrific reality of his future may have been the kick up the arse he needed to work with the help that was available. several times in the priory didnt help.

Moira
24th Aug 2010, 19:08
Bruce Wayne

Sorry to hear that, I suppose you could say that my reaction was prejudiced too, my apologies for that.

It just remains a sore subject to me after losing a friend to (prescription) drugs a few years ago. Still hurts that apparently the support of his family and friends was not enough to get him through rehab, even though I do know we did everything we could to support him and stepping out of life was his own conscious choice. Tough world indeed.

Mike X
24th Aug 2010, 23:06
A few random, related thoughts.

Addiction has to be experienced before comment is passed.

Gee, the world is in turmoil. "Educated" people rule the world. 1+1=?

Time to light up.

TBirdFrank
25th Aug 2010, 00:04
We are very lucky people - we have the capacity to sit here after a gin, or a smoke, and debate this issue intelligently

Lucky because we have NOT tipped over the edge where that enjoyment has become addiction, and where the need for a fix or a drink has NOT become the most important thing in our lives well beyond a mere want - but a pressing all encompassing compulsion .

It is impossible for those who have never been an addict to understand it. I am currently watching the effect of alcohol destroy a friend, whilst I can cheerfully go to the pub or attend bashes - because I am lucky.

I don't understand the addiction; I do now understand where help is needed - and how people can so easily condemn. or give up through frustration as the addict repeatedly refuses help and carries on with self abuse that no thinking entity would inflict on themsleves.

But watch for yourself the rabbit in the headlamps reach for that bottle even though it has destroyed her relationships, driven her kids away, lost her job and her dignity, driven her to a skeletal shadow of her former self, lost her car and given her a criminal record, caused liver damage, jaundice and mental incapacity - a virtual cripple who can now barely walk - and still the hand reaches out for the bottle.

That isn't enjoying a drink - that is real - life destroying addiction and I have seen it destroy and even kill friends before, and I am damned if I am going to watch it happen again to anyone I know.

My friend was admitted to hospital last night and I spent the day clearing her house of bottles - all of them, before going to see a trembling skeleton in a hospital bed who simply wants her life and her health back, but who the system was simply sending home to an empty house with the comment "Pull yourself together" or "Its up to you" - what?? on your own, with Jeremy Kyle on the box, in an empty house - sure - that's easy!

The saddest thing has been the repeated encounters that I have had with the authorities, medical, social services, alcohol and drugs services, AA and the Samaritans, and the various benefits agencies. Little or no help was forthcoming until she was taken for a medical yesterday and seen by a locum, while her support worker was carrying a print out about the Korsakoff syndrome, with which which a friend's brother has just been diagnosed, and which I supplied. Off she went - straight to hospital

The lack of help, hoops to jump through which I barely understood, sober and switched on - it has been one hell of a journey to understand how these unfortunates have to plead for common dignity and assistance that we take for granted.

I just hope this is the start of the way back for her - but also that some of these agencies would also look at how they can do more before the depths are plumbed.

AA is alright - but to be preached at - in your face - week after week "I'm John, I'm an alcoholic" wouldn't persuade me to come back time after time - but group coffee meetings or shopping trips - without alcohol, could be more sociable - and curative

The Samaritans - "we can't advise any agencies who could assist but your friend is welcome to ring direct - are you depressed?" I was after that!

The Agencies - weasel words! They don't answer the phone except between ten and twelve, and two and four - and they do even less!

Then I found an agency called Stepping Stones at just the same time as the Probation Service brought it in to play - nine months in. That is the Agency that took her for the medical, after starting work on the finances, getting the electricity and gas under way again, sorting out the Benefits Agency. Now I need them to house her dog whilst she is in hospital - because with six tail waggers here whilst we accommodate the younger generation we are dogged out. They undertook to do it - please God they do - because she needs to come home to her furry friend when she gets out.

So - don't disguise it - don't dismiss it - recognise it for what it is as soon as it rears its head - it might be your friend, or family, or - God Forbid - you - But don't diminish addiction. It is a compulsive killer.

Cacophonix
25th Aug 2010, 00:17
This thread has made me realise how many intelligent, kind people post here on PPRuNe.

NF

Cacophonix
25th Aug 2010, 00:40
like pacifism, anorexia, addiction, and many other conditions, is a mental illness.

If you looked at the stats on the number of ex servicmen who are being shoved back into civie street here in the UK who go on to struggle with addiction based issues you would be shocked.

Not one of them is a pacifist, anorexic or anything of the sort. Your comment makes you appear unwell!

Slasher
25th Aug 2010, 00:48
Lets call them CRIMINALS!!!

But wouldnt the PC brigade morons insist crims be called "legally challenged"?

Richo77
25th Aug 2010, 00:50
There are far too many sweeping generalisations made by those who have no idea of what they speak. In general but a few on here too.

My Brother was an addict for over 15 years, and we went through hell and back together but he came out the other side. I have seen and experienced things i never want to again. Ever.

In his own words, he is still an addict and always will be. I dare say there is not a day goes by he doesnt think about Heroin. But know he has the tools (so to speak) to deal with those thoughts the right way.

Sometimes an addict does need a good hard kick in the arse, but sometimes they need a hug and for someone to tell them that they love them too.

They dont all steal or thieve, he never did. Was never arrested, he held down a respectable job the entire time.

The reason is never the same, what "drives" someone to their own addictions is usually only known to them. He started because he was tempted by a friend, but even i dont know what pushed him to it time and time again. I was the one who never gave up on him, always tried to be there (and mostly was) and always told him we would come out the other side.

It doesn't matter what you call them, they will often call themselves worse. They know what they are doing and how they are doing it, but they cannot help themselves from doing so.

That is what a lot of people don't realise.

My personal belief is that it IS a mental weakness, because you have to be able to let yourself become dependent on something. It's something i can never fully understand because i could not let myself become like that.

Does that make me mentally stronger? a better person? Not at all. Just wired differently.

I know a hell of a lot more than i ever wanted to about herion and its addictions, but i still don't understand. I just try.

BlueWolf
25th Aug 2010, 01:16
If you looked at the stats on the number of ex servicmen who are being shoved back into civie street here in the UK who go on to struggle with addiction based issues you would be shocked.

Not one of them is a pacifist, anorexic or anything of the sort. Your comment makes you appear unwell!

Don't be so precious. I'm not demeaning the value or integrity of ex-service people whose experiences leave them afflicted with PTSD, and similar conditions, which in turn leads to addiction.

Cause aside, the affliction still has a mental root, and it needs to be treated accordingly, as does, I believe, the compulsion to be politically correct.

Blacksheep
25th Aug 2010, 09:53
This morning on Radio4 there was a young man who worked in a sexual health clinic discussing young people's attitude to STDs. In the course of his discussion he described his childhood experiences - his first STD infection at the age of 14 and getting drunk and taking substances. Thats what made me sit up and take notice.

Substances? What on earth are Substances? He means drugs. Spelled D-R-U-G-S. Can we now say that "political correctness" doesn't contribute to the problem? We have schoolchildren taking drugs and they don't even know what they're taking?

Its fun, its cool and it makes you feel good. Yes but it should be called what it is. So they know they're drug abusers. Uh-oh! There we go again - abuse - another politically correct word used for hiding the truth.

It isn't substance abuse, its drug taking and if you carry on you'll get in deeper and end up as a Junkie, with needle scars all over your arms and legs and your liver ruined by hepatitis. Or your nose rotted away from snorting shit. Being a Junkie may sound nastier than being a "substance abuser" but its the truth.

Cacophonix
25th Aug 2010, 10:32
Don't be so precious.

When I first saw this I thought you had written specious and was about to get all hot under the collar. Precious is fine. ;)

Addiction is of course a psycho chemical phenomenon. One man's political correctness is another one's politeness. We should call a spade a spade but there is no need to denigrate the unfortunate.

Sirikit
25th Aug 2010, 11:19
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. (Henry David Thoreau)
Humankind cannot bear very much reality. (T S Eliot)

angels
25th Aug 2010, 11:37
Richo - moving post mate. I was so fortunate that I had family to turn to. I would not have made it without them and an understanding employer.

You make my point about addicts not giving a toss what they're called better than I did earlier!

Your brother's story was a common one at the place I stayed in. They were known as 'functioning addicts'.

hellsbrink
25th Aug 2010, 12:15
My personal belief is that it IS a mental weakness, because you have to be able to let yourself become dependent on something. It's something i can never fully understand because i could not let myself become like that.

Well, it's far more complicated than that. Research has proven that the quantity of dopamine receptors in the brain has a direct effect on how addictions develop, and has an effect on how "impulsive" you are as well. That means that many who are hoplessly addicted or easily addicted to anything actually have an issue that has a genetic base and is not necessarily a "mental weakness". And, sure, I know all about addictions since I am hopelessly hooked on nicotine, enslaved to coffee and was almost instantly hooked on cocaine several years ago (totally clean now, as far as illegal stuff goes). I even admit I have to be careful where alcohol is concerned and also have to be careful with prescription drugs too.

Now, sure, something triggers people to take narcotics, especially heroin. After all, I don't think anyone wakens up and thinks "I think I'll stick a needle in my arm today"! Some of it is peer pressure (especially tobacco), other cases are people seeking an "escape" from things like depression. Of course, the process from the guy handing out the "free cigarettes", and then escalating, is a known thing. There are all sorts of reasons people start taking drugs of all kinds. But the thing that keeps them addicted, no matter what "help" they get, if any, can be far more likely to be a genetic thing you have no control over. After all, that is proven with tobacco where you see some people hooked from the first cigarette and others having no problems like that.

I ain't making excuses for addicts, and am certainly not giving those huggy-fluffs any backing either. I'm just saying the reasons for addiction are far more complicated than people think.

Cacophonix
25th Aug 2010, 12:41
A slight drift ; this forum contains substances which may cause addiction as well.Internet Addiction Test (http://www.netaddiction.com/index.php?option=com_bfquiz&view=onepage&catid=46&Itemid=106)

Lon More
25th Aug 2010, 12:57
TBird Frank a Good post. Only thing you can do further is be there for her when she calls. Have gone through this for someone. It meant long discussions on the phone at all hours of the day or night, Discussions is the wrong word, I spent 99% of the time just listening but it was enough for her to know that there was someone who cared

Richo77
26th Aug 2010, 06:49
Angels - Thanks mate, just my side of the story.

Hellsbrink - Agree with your post completely, made light of it in my own (unintentionally) but im not all that good with the physical mental terminology (see, even that sounds wrong to me).


Lon - Sometimes thats all they need. Nice one.

TBirdFrank
13th Sep 2010, 23:24
23rd August - a one day late birthday present as my friend is hospitalised.

10th September she is discharged - weak, still jaundiced, but at present cognitive of how she fell into her present condition, and determined to fight her way back, and not backslide again.

I took her to get her dog as a soulmate and the neighbours, my wife and I welcome her home, and just hope that the determination that she once had as a workmate and mum will kick in again.

Four days on - early fragile days - but so far so good!

ShyTorque
14th Sep 2010, 00:55
Addiction can happen to almost anyone, but not everyone. Saying no in the first place is the critical thing, in my opinion.

My father smoked himself to death. From a very early age (in the 1960s) I knew smoking was a stupid thing to do but back then I was the odd one out because I have never smoked one cigarette. He saw me as a goody-two-shoes. Far from it, but I'm a survivor.

My younger brother is an alcoholic. His choice, too. He has made many bad decisions in his life and has shunned all advice and help from me and others. His main problem seems to be that he can only ever take but never give back. One day soon I will get a phone call about him ....it won't be good news. :(