View Full Version : To The PPRuNer of PPRinCiple

23rd Aug 2010, 20:18
The RRuLes of PPRuNe forbid, I believe, that one dwell at all on the idiosyncrasy, however innocent, of another PPRuNer, and naturally I shrink from the very thought.

If I did tend to any such solecism or gaucherie, mind you, which I do not, my mind might turn to a Small White Hound, and through it to its owner ............ but enough! Moderation in all things. This is just of general application.

Anyway it is a fact universally acknowledged, and premise of this posting, that SWH owners rarely if ever delve into fiction, and what could be a wiser habit? Certainly that is what one of them claims as a PPRinCiple. Factmen, they; nane o' yer wee lassies' stories.

On the other hand some of them, never in their active moments happier than when walking the SWH around the park, protected as they are these days by man’s estate from the long-gone interference of Parkies, will in their more passive hours delve occasionally into Studies, and these Studies have been known to lead to the brave days on the Border, when even a renegade Monro might be caught by the ears.

Lucky am I therefore to have stumbled on a work of fact, not fiction, that may come to the eye of a noted PPRuNe RReaDer.

It is by George MacDonald Fraser and is entitled “The Reavers” [sic!], published by Harper/Collins; a narrative of the Scroops, the Bucceluchs, and the Carletons, and of their sworn enemies Ill-Drowned Geordie, Nebless Clem (antecedent, surely, of the noseless villain in “Cat Ballou”), Curst Eckie, Fingerless Will, Evilwillit Sandie, David-no-good-Priest, Black Ormiston, Buggerback and many others.

One might, indeed, fear from this that our honest PPRuNer is being seduced into FFicTion, but a GGLance at the text provides reassurance and that in PPLenTy.

The very first case-file tells of the famed expedition over the border by the Scottis-men Black Dod Pringle (nom-de-guerre “Bangtail”; saddle-bags full of a selection of ladies' fine cashmere goods lest a good sales op. arise) and his henchpersons Fire-the-Sheep, Blacklugs, Grunt, Slackarse, and Wandered Tom, as they plotted GBH and armed robbery at the AGM of the good ladies of the Foulbogsdyke Women’s Institute, there to rape the committee and make off with the prize entries of crochet and home-made jam, fabrics and comestibles ever in short supply. No possible FFicTion there, to be sure.

Alerted by espionage, these women, hardy although English, made blocksafe the tower of the FWI building, from which they assailed the raiders with potted meat, jellies, raffia-work and blazing handbags. Gone, or at best diminished, were the plans to rape. Bangtail and his men were reduced to driving off the livestock in the form of half a dozen hens and a brace of cats.

Behind them on the battlements the Treasurer of the FWI, saucy minx, flaunted her curves and mocked their parting, casting roguish and provocative double-ententes at the minor glory of the League Second Division. The repartee to be expected from the lads at home did not bear contemplation.

Worse, Alas! Was to follow! ................................... but there I pause, in fact stop, leaving further research to the SWHman if this interests him; and not if does not.

tony draper
23rd Aug 2010, 20:49
Aha! crashed a mailed fist upon your gate Mr Davaar? is the moss fetlock deep?
do you know the road that runs by Kale and Jed across the Carter Fell ?
One shall look up this work,the Borders are always of interest,our own wild west,only much wilder than the wild west.
Now Parcy Reed has Crosier ta'en,
He has delivered him to the law ;
But Crosier says he'll do waur than that,
He'll make the tower o' Troughend fa'.

23rd Aug 2010, 20:54
The real story:- Border Reivers (http://www.sorbie.net/border_reivers.htm)

I fear that the work titled Reavers is but a Girl's Own account of events.

From the same author:- The Steel Bonnets - George MacDonald Fraser (http://www.complete-review.com/reviews/frasergm/sbonnets.htm#ours)

(considered to be factual)

23rd Aug 2010, 21:24
By God yer a violent bunch up there. Should've had you lot down here when that Ffrench bloke came ashore

23rd Aug 2010, 21:24
Reavers is great fun, and has a soundtrack by Korngold (natch!). :}:ok:

Lon More
23rd Aug 2010, 21:37
The General Danced at Dawn, semi-biographical, is also well worth a read. Everybody should have a McAuslan in their lives :E

23rd Aug 2010, 21:41
Aye Lad, and the toll road frae Scotch Corner tae Carlisle is no fur the peely-wally, it's no but, an' wha's collectin' the tolls this week, the Scroop or the Buccleuch?

An whatna verse wis that frae Archie (mind you, my ain orthography wad ha'e been Erchie mair liker) Noble:

We hangit two coos on the gallows tree,
We hangit them high, wi' screech an' shudder;
They twisted and turned in the wild, wild wind.
An' ye couldna tell one frae the udder.

Mmmphmm! A' the same, like ye say, as oor ain reivers i'the wast. Twas but yestreen we had them oan CFCF, Gene an the groaners, aye ettlin' oan about the lassie coming roon the mountain when she comes, or maybe gin she comes. By my faither's dirk, thoan Gene is gonnae git claimed ae day sune gin he disnae jive up the rhythm whiles. Cannae complain, tho': Ye git Gene, ye dinnae git Gabby.

23rd Aug 2010, 21:47
Erbitte Übersetzung! I dinnae speak northotheborder.

23rd Aug 2010, 21:58
Ach! (Schottisch; Deutsch; oder Hollaendisch).

Nicht noch einer!

Versuch es in zwei Schritten:

1. Von Schottisch in Hollaendisch;

2. Von Hollaendisch in Deutsch!

Easy Peasy!


23rd Aug 2010, 21:58
I founded a Northumbrian Society when I was at University (aimed at bringing together those from the region - so that they could coordinate their travel arrangements at the beginning and end of each term - but also as a social society).
One young lady politely declined, pointing out that she was, in fact, a Douglas . . .
(her ancestor was killed by Harry Hotspur's men at Otterburn in 1388)

. . . that seemed reasonable, though 574 years seemed a long time to bear a grudge . . .

23rd Aug 2010, 22:03
Not really, G-C.

In fact some here -- even a Moderator, by Golly! and I have not forgotten -- have suggested that an innocent like myself shares at least one quality with the elephant.

tony draper
23rd Aug 2010, 22:08
Indeed the Newcastle Sunderland feud is but a mewling youngster hailing only from our civil war when yonder makums were dirty Parlimentarians and we of course Cavaliers.
Some of the good Border traditions were carried across the pond by the likes of the Hatfields and McCoys of course.

Lon More
23rd Aug 2010, 22:18
574 years seemed a long time to bear a grudge . . .

revenge, like porrige, is a dish best served cold.

23rd Aug 2010, 22:38
. . . that seemed reasonable, though 574 years seemed a long time to bear a grudge . . .

You've never been to the Balkans, have you, Cptn?

23rd Aug 2010, 23:15
Oh! Okay, then, Keef. Here we are from page 26:

"Doesn't anyone north of the Humber knock" demands Lady Godiva, bosom flashing and eyes heaving.

For the rest, buy your own.

23rd Aug 2010, 23:20
There are those of us who are descended from the Border Reivers, and many of our feuds were of world class viciousness.

We gave the English a whipping at the Battle of Sark and put down the Clan Douglas at Threave Castle.

Our sworn enemies the Maxwells dared to try and take our town of Lockerbie for their own. We kept our main force hidden sending only small parties out to taunt the blackhearted Maxwells, then as the Maxwells were crossing the Annan, we attacked their amassed force of 2,000 troopers with our smaller force of 800. The attack was vicious and rammed straight into the heart of their formation, causing confusion and uproar. They did not fare well on that day of the 7th of December 1593.

We showed them the pain and agony of what became known as Lockerbie Licks, the downward sword strokes we as a clan had perfected. We killed 700, and wounded many more, Lord Maxwell, who had shown no mercy previously begged for surrender but ultimately had his right arm and head displayed from the battlements of Lochwood Tower. The next generation of Lord Maxwell showed himself to be just as cowardly by shooting our chieftain in the back and going on the run - finally being hunted down and hanged like the criminal he was.

We gave the Moffats a damned good thrashing as well, when they got a bit too above themselves. We were for a time the most powerful clan in the West Marches. We would ride with both English and Scottish flags in our saddlebags, and decide which side of the border were from dependent on how much of a fight we fancied or how many cattle we needed.

Our time came to an end when James the 6th (or 1st if you must) decided upon crushing the border spirit and embarked on his programme of Plantation Scots into Ulster.

23rd Aug 2010, 23:39
As a member of a branch of the family Nixon I think a veil is better drawn over some of the activities of my forebears - although it appears that, although bearing a totally different surname, my great great antecedents went into legend as the fighting men of the locality.

As great grandfather also married a Crosbie from Dalbeattie, I am well represented in those parts - perhaps that why SWH's sleep on my settee too!

Loose rivets
24th Aug 2010, 00:26
Moderation in all things.

24th Aug 2010, 05:26
Border Reiver - Mark Knopfler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHiAmNqUBYk&feature=fvw)

Cardinal Puff
24th Aug 2010, 05:59
G MacD F deserves to unseat that Willy Wobbledagger bloke and become required reading for those chained like galley slaves to a school desk. McAuslan has caused one many near disasters in one's trousers while seized in a fit of mirth.

Those things run deep Davaar. The skirl of the pipes is still enough to cause one's porridge wog ancestors to pound the war drums in one's head and bring forth thoughts of jumping the fence clutching a large stick to shout at the neighbours.

24th Aug 2010, 06:15
Indeed the Newcastle Sunderland feud is but a mewling youngster

Reminds me of the Mackem couple standing on the steps of the county court after being divorced. They were both crying and he blurted out through sobs 'no matter what I still love you and you will always be my sister'.


24th Aug 2010, 07:51
Should've had you lot down here when that Ffrench bloke came ashorePerhaps a good time to remind one and all that the "Domesday Boke" ordered by The Bastard stopped its recording at the southern bank of the Tees. No Doomsday Inquisitor returned alive from beyond the Steel River. The usurper kings of England ventured not into the Danelaw beyond and contented themselves by pretending to rule through the "Prince Bishops" of Durham. What rot!

tony draper
24th Aug 2010, 08:13
That's true even in my small town we sent a clear message to William the Bastard by burning alive his Bishop and entourage he had sent up to see to our spiritual needs,that's why William found it necessary to build a new Castle across the water,hense Newcastle.

24th Aug 2010, 15:02
On reflection, Keef, I realise that The Reavers is not for the beginner in Scots. "Glesca" is one thing, but "Kelvinside", which one character speaks, is quite another. It is to ra Scoatch as Edinburgh "Morningside", say, is to basic Midlothian; but more of a shock when heard the first time. I expect Stock will understand. The last good "Kelvinside" was done many years ago by (the late?) Stanley Baxter on BBC as "Constable Gilmore Hill".

P.S. Keef, I have just deleted a screed, a digression a bit too digressive. I'd beinterested in your thoughts, though, so I may intrude with a PM, and you can respond or just ignore it.

24th Aug 2010, 16:32
I spent a few years in regular contact with the fine folk of Edinburgh University (and indeed, Heriot-Watt) some decades ago, and was exceedingly well briefed about Reivers, Highland Clearances, and more. All display compelling evidence of man's inhumanity to man, I fear.

Unfortunately, this excellent education on things Scots was spoiled by an academic team member with apparently a single interest - an excessive emphasis on the evils of gender discrimination and the horror of the use of the word "man" when one meant "person." Rather out of proportion, I thought, and displaying a lack of linguistic understanding: English doesn't have separate words for "Mann" and "Mensch", or the issue may never have arisen. While I understood the "women's lib" concerns, meeting the provisional wing thereof in full flow, in parallel with Highland Clearances, rather distorted my perception of the priorities.

As to the rest, Davaar, PM received. Reply to follow.

24th Aug 2010, 16:55
Keef, I understand. Used to know a lady lawyer, good looking, bright, but afflicted with the same fixation. Next to me at a Bar dinner she was descanting on marriage. When she got married it would be 50/50, eeksy peeksy, a week this way seven days that. Well I probed, let's take scrubbing the kitchen floor. Is that included? Yes, especially that. But, I said, suppose he has other virtues: he loves you, he takes the dog for its walks, he listens to your father on meteorology (a trial in itself), and so on. Can there be no trade-off?


But, I said, N****, you know and I know that there is no chance in Hell that this putative husband will scrub the kitchen floor; and you know and I know Why!

Why then?

N****, scrubbing the kitchen floor is woman's work.

For a few seconds I thought I was going to have the minestrone over my head.

She is married now, but I have never asked.

Pugilistic Animus
25th Aug 2010, 22:13
Now it my turn to finally ask...


Wot are you all on about:confused:?


I love the British:}

26th Aug 2010, 12:06
My mother's Family are from the Borders, among my forbears are the Grahams, credited by GMF with practically inventing blackmail up there, my lot exported to Ulster then snuck back again. The Borderer is a wonderful breed, I spent most of my childhood holidays in Cumberland, and one thing I do remember is their long memories, especially for a grudge. I would still take pains to avoid starting a feud with any of them.


26th Aug 2010, 22:48
Wot are you all on about

Well, I know Pug, if I may be so familiar, that you understand full well. It is a recherche of an iron time and iron men, recollected by lesser men, perhaps, with a pinch of anachronism and analocality thrown in for entertainment. That's all.

Just looking over the posts, though, it provokes in me far one more than I had in mind when I started it.

In "The Territorial Imperative" published fifty years ago on the animal impulse to defend its own property, Richard Ardrey made a nature study, so he thought. Then he writes (I am going by memory) that in that work he had looked on himself as a mild dispassionate American academic studying phenomena in the abstract. How interesting, he says he had thought, to see what the lion or the sheep or the parrot would do when its territory was attacked.

Then of a sudden came an event all unexpectedly that raised the hair on his neck in a fury of hatred and the urge to war; President Roosevelt's announcement of the attack on Pearl Harbour. Gone in an instant was the mild dispassionate American academic, replaced by a fighting mad animal intent on defence of its own.

Then I looked back at the "imagine holding a grudge for five hundred years" posts above, and at the same time I picked up "The Trial of Patrick Sellar", the SOB who oversaw the clearance of people from the Sutherland estates in the early 19th century to be replaced by sheep, the time and place when earlier Davaars were pushed out of Lairg by His and Her Grace. I am content with the comment that I can well understand the Ardrey reaction. From nowhere I had a total recall of:

Fa saw the Forty second?
Fa saw the Forty twa?
Fa saw the Forty second,
Marchin doon the Broomielaw?

There are many verses, of course, and many variations, not about the Sutherlands but of the Black Watch (42nd of Foot, Royal Highland Regiment), kidnapped for service abroad.

I believe the song refers to their trip to the Crimea, but when and where did I hear it?

It cannot, as I calculate the dates, have been much more recently than
1938, when I first heard it, and I do not recall having heard it since. At the time I must have been much too young to understand at all what it meant ..... save that I understood very well exactly what it meant.

My Goodness! If the call went out tomorrow for Kerrs and Armstrongs and Grahams and Elliots I wonder how long it would take for the long-gone to turn out "marschiern im Geist in unsern Reihen mit"*?

*march as Ghosts in our ranks.

tony draper
27th Aug 2010, 00:01
Wha Saw the 42nd (http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiMARCH42;ttMARCH42.html)

Searching for that also found this,interesting.:)
Children's Rhymes. Children's Games, Children' s Songs, Children's Stories (http://www.electricscotland.com/kids/bairns/page1.htm)

27th Aug 2010, 01:30
Thank you for that treasure. Some of them I have; some not. That is one to print off.

Dottered, dune, and doited bodie

Of course the "doited" is old, old, old. Long before the good Dr Alzheimer was out of his diapers we all knew a "puir auld Mr/Mrs So-and-so, fair dottled he/she is".

Once someone is established as "dottled" what can "Alzheimer" ever add?

Loose rivets
27th Aug 2010, 03:31
analocality perhaps.:}

27th Aug 2010, 07:37
Hey Man! I made that one up! 'Tis the PPRuNer wi'oot PPRinCiple that I am. Not bad! I thought. Whaddayasay?

tony draper
27th Aug 2010, 08:05
Wonder what the fluffy guardians of childhood innocence who hold sway now would make of it.
As I gaed owre the Brig o' Perth
I met wi' George Bawhannan;
I took of his head, and drank his bluid,
And left his body stannin'.

They missed one

Four dilly danders
Four stiff stander
Two lookers
Two hookers
and a fly swat

A Coo of course

Pugilistic Animus
27th Aug 2010, 19:27
Davaar ---yes Pug, PA etc..is fine in fact I've been called far worse here you can imagine what folks do with that handle:}

your response was poetic, I guess you mean a little ancestral grief...

very British :D

Sorry, do carry on:)

28th Aug 2010, 00:32
Brilliant, and truly evocative of atavistic urges, is this wee collection of resurgent ruminations.
Don't recall any ancestors directly involved with the Borderers, since we're all (mostly) fra' the Western Marches. With a longstanding enclave in Ulster.
The ancestral seat is at Dumbeg. We were hereditary pipers to the MacDonalds, after they ousted us.
Dread were the Campbells and tis very ironic my good friend is a Campbell. So much for feuds.

Add to the mix a grandma of Schroeder descent - out of either Mecklenburg-Schweinn or Hannover - and one from W Yorks.

28th Aug 2010, 00:54
Yes, Pug, you got it in one:

Perhaps the plaintive numbers flow
For old, unhappy, far-off things,
And battles long ago

One really should not dip into these books, especially about a puckle sheep stealers down there in the borders. There were other events still infusing further North.

Much worse, though, in my current reading "The Trial of Patrick Sellar" (by Ian Grimble, pub. by The Saltire Society, 1993, ISBN 0-85411-053-4), He was the factor (bailiff) for the evil lady aristocrat [Note to Moderators: Nothing I can write of her will match what has been in the public domain these two hundred years].

I should stop here. What the [landowners honoured in society] did to the Davaars and others (e.g., veterans of the 93rd Regiment of Foot back from Waterloo; later to be the Thin Red Line at Balaclava) is not to be dwelt on lightly.

It is not only for me that I stop, though, for this will upset young Dr draper. Oh Well, if I put the rest in shaded text he may not notice it:

Drapes often lets us think he is a Geordie, but we all now he is a Munro or Monro. There you are, then! That's what he is, and the Munros are hielan', the Munro blood is hielan', ergo his blood is hielan', and we all know that and what flows from that. Think of that feud at Ticonderoga. See! Long before the Hadfields and that other lot.

So we have (Mrs) Henny Munro, at Grumbeg, widow of the sojer Munro, late the 93rd Regiment of Foot. "She had followed her husband in all his campaigns, marches and battles in Sicily and Spain" and came back to her birthplace in Sutherland to spend her last few years and die. Her friends gave her a small cottage, a cow, and fodder for the animal. That was all she had.

Then arrived Sellar, the Fiscal, constables, and sheriff-oficers to evict the people and bring in the sheep. Henny pleaded for her valueless furniture and was told that if she did not take away "her trumpery" in half an hour it would be burned. They set a match to the roof and all was destroyed, the moveables included.

She was not so badly off as the crippled auld body of over ninety whose house was burned and died five days later in a shed.

What is that scratching I hear? Is it young Munro bringing down the broadsword from the rafters in that shed he writes about?

Mind you, there are people here desperately opposed to the right to "carry".

What happened to Sellar at his trial on a range of indictable offences? Not much. Acquitted after fifteen minutes by a jury of landowners.

How long should the Munroes remember?

The hat-trick aristo (she had titles by the number, lucky girl) knew how to get things done in America too. She was a patroness of one Mrs Harriet Beecher Stowe. By amazing good luck neither of these girls was killed at Gettysburg or Shiloh, but that is Okay: many others were.

tony draper
28th Aug 2010, 08:09
:uhoh:The Bishops Curse.

Good folks, (herewith) my Archbishop of Glasgow's letters, under his round seal, directed to me, or any other chaplain, making mention with great regret, how heavy he bears the pitious, lamentable, and dolorous complaint that passes over all realms and comes to his ears by open voice and fame, how our Sovereign Lord's true lieges, men, wives, and children, bought and redeemed by the precious blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and living in his laws, are innocently, some murdered, some slain, burned, hurt, despoiled and cut openly by daylight and under silence of night, and their farms and lands laid waste, and themselves banished therefrom, also church lands as well as others, to be common traitors, rapists and thieves, dwelling in the south part of this realm, namely, Tevidale, Esdale, Liddesdale, Ewisdale, Nedisdale, and Annandereaill; they have been, in diverse ways, pursued for punishment by the temporal sword of our Sovereign Lord's authority, and they fear not the same. (The church has condemned them in fear for their souls, and it has no prohibitory effect on their actions)"

"And therefore, my said Archbishop of Glasgow has thought it necessary to strike them with the terrible sword of Holy Church, that they may not long endure and resist; and has charged me, or any other chaplain, to denounce, declare and proclaim them openly and generally cursed, at this market crossroads, and all other plublic places."

"Herefore, through the authority of Almighty God, the Father of Heaven, His Son our Saviour, Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Ghost; through the authority of the Blessed Virgin, Saint Mary, Saint Michael, Saint Gabriel, and all the angels; Saint John the Baptist, and all the Holy patriarchs and prophets; Saint Peter, Saint Paul, Saint Andrew, and all holy apostles; Saint Stephen, Saint Lawrence, and all holy martyrs; Saint Giles, Saint Martin, and all holy confessors; Saint Anne, Saint Katherine, and all holy virgins and matrons; and of all the saints and holy company of Heaven; by the authority of our Holy Father the Pope and his cardinals, and of my said Lord, Archbishop of Glasgow, by the advice and assistance of my lords, archbishop, bishops, abbots, priors, and other prelates and ministers of Holy Church:"

"I denounce, proclaim and declare all the committers of the said senseless murders, slaughters, burning, torturing, plundering, raping and pillaging, openly by daylight and under silence of night, even on such peaceful ground as church lands; together with their families, henchmen, suppliers, and willing conspirators who give them refuge, their receivers of goods stolen by them, and any benefit or part thereof, and their counsellors and defenders of their evil deeds, generally CURSED, denounced, execrated, in sum total, with the GREAT CURSING."

"I curse their head and all the hairs of their head; I curse their face, their brain (innermost thoughts), their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their leggs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without."

"I curse them going and I curse them riding; I curse them standing and I curse them sitting; I curse them eating and I curse them drinking; I curse them rising, and I curse them lying; I curse them at home, I curse them away from home; I curse them within the house, I curse them outside of the house; I curse their wives, their children, and their servants who participate in their deeds. I (bring ill wishes upon) their crops, their cattle, their wool, their sheep, their horses, their swine, their geese, their hens, and all their livestock. I (bring ill wishes upon) their halls, their chambers, their kitchens, their stanchions, their barns, their cowsheds, their barnyards, their cabbage patches, their plows, their harrows, and the goods and houses that are necessary for their sustenance and welfare."

"May all the malevolent wishes and curses ever known, since the beginning of the world, to this hour, light on them. May the malediction of God, that fell upon Lucifer and all his fellows, that cast them from the high Heaven to the deep hell, light upon them."

"May the fire and the sword that stopped Adam from the gates of Paradise, stop them from the glory of Heaven, until they forebear, and make amends."

"May the evil that fell upon cursed Cain, when he slew his brother Abel, needlessly, fall on them for the needless slaughter that they commit daily."

"May the malediction that fell upon all the world, man and beast, and all that ever took life, when all were drowned by the flood of Noah, except Noah and his ark, fall upon them and drown them, man and beast, and make this realm free of them, for their wicked sins."

"May the thunder and lightning which rained down upon Sodom and Gomorra and all the lands surrounding them, and burned them for their vile sins, rain down upon them and burn them for their open sins. May the evil and confusion that fell on the Gigantis for their opression and pride in building the Tower of Babylon, confound them and all their works, for their open callous disregard and opression."

"May all the plagues that fell upon Pharoah and his people of Egypt, their lands, crops and cattle, fall upon them, their equipment, their places, their lands, their crops and livestock."

"May the waters of the Tweed and other waters which they use, drown them, as the Red Sea drowned King Pharoah and the people of Egypt, preserving God's people of Israel."

"May the earth open, split and cleave, and swallow them straight to hell, as it swallowed cursed Dathan and Abiron, who disobeyed Moses and the command of God."

"May the wild fire that reduced Thore and his followers to two-hundred-fifty in number, and others from 14,000 to 7,000 at anys, usurping against Moses and Aaron, servants of God, suddenly burn and consume them daily, for opposing the commands of God and Holy Church."

"May the malediction that suddenly fell upon fair Absolom, riding through the wood against his father, King David, when the branches of a tree knocked him from his horse and hanged him by the hair, fall upon these untrue Scotsmen and hang them the same way, that all the world may see."

"May the malediction that fell upon Nebuchadnezzar's lieutenant, Olifernus, making war and savagery upon true christian men; the malediction that fell upon Judas, Pilate, Herod, and the Jews that crucified Our Lord; and all the plagues and troubles that fell on the city of Jerusalem therefore, and upon Simon Magus for his treachery, bloody Nero, Ditius Magcensius, Olibrius, Julianus Apostita and the rest of the cruel tyrants who slew and murdered Christ's holy servants, fall upon them for their cruel tyranny and murder of Christian people."

"And may all the vengeance that ever was taken since the world began, for open sins, and all the plagues and pestilence that ever fell on man or beast, fall on them for their openly evil ways, senseless slaughter and shedding of innocent blood."

"I sever and part them from the church of God, and deliver them immediately to the devil of hell, as the Apostle Paul delivered Corinth. I bar the entrance of all places they come to, for divine service and ministration of the sacraments of holy church, except the sacrament of infant baptism, only; and I forbid all churchmen to hear their confession or to absolve them of their sins, until they are first humbled / subjugated by this curse."

"I forbid all christian men or women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, or in any other deed-doing, under the pain of deadly sin."

"I discharge all bonds, acts, contracts, oaths, made to them by any persons, out of loyalty, kindness, or personal duty, so long as they sustain this cursing, by which no man will be bound to them, and this will be binding on all men."

"I take from them, and cast down all the good deeds that ever they did, or shall do, until they rise from this cursing."

"I declare them excluded from all matins, masses, evening prayers, funerals or other prayers, on book or bead (rosary); of all pigrimages and alms deeds done, or to be done in holy church or be christian people, while this curse is in effect."

"And, finally, I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, and their bodies to the gallows of Burrow moor, first to be hanged, then ripped and torn by dogs, swine, and other wild beasts, abominable to all the world. And their candle (light of their life) goes from your sight, as may their souls go from the face of God, and their good reputation from the world, until they forebear their open sins, aforesaid, and rise from this terrible cursing and make satisfaction and penance."

El Grifo
28th Aug 2010, 09:54
Born and bred a Borderer I.
Gally though, one o' the less authentic o' touns.

The family are weel connected historically to the Buccleuch's. A fact that was never lost on the auld wheelchair ridden patriarch.

I entreat any of you to veesit Selkirk in late June to witness the maist authentic o celebrations o' auld borders, namely the Common Ridin.

350 - 400 riders involved with thousands o' tounfolk in tow.

Raises the hairs on the back o' ma neck just thinkin o' it.

Tears tae a glees ee.

El G.

tony draper
28th Aug 2010, 10:53
Apparently of late there have been entreaties to Rome to have this curse lifted,frankly one thinks that would be very unwise, leave it in place ,lest it all kick off again come independance North of the Wall.

El Grifo
28th Aug 2010, 11:04
Seeing that you mentioned "it" here is a bit of lucid and current script laying out the state of thinking in some camps :-

They Have No Mandate: Reclaiming Scotland Part 1 (http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2010/08/26/they-have-no-mandate-reclaiming-scotland-part-1/#more-1182)

29th Aug 2010, 23:39
My Goodness! If the call went out tomorrow for Kerrs and Armstrongs and Grahams and Elliots I wonder how long it would take for the long-gone to turn outgood question! as a member of one of the clans quoted there I also wonder. "Ne Oublie" is the clan motto. but history is down to your own point of view. Is it Bonnie Dundee or Bloody Claverhouse? were we a bunch of murderous barstewards or a bunch of patriotic freedomfighters? we were, it seems, one of the finest of the Scots clans and at the same time were one of the worst. depends on which side you were on I suppose.

29th Aug 2010, 23:59
Basil, congratulations. The emphasis was on the spirits and the vacancies in the ranks, but I added the "march" to entertain the alert. The imagery was the same but the context different from the original, of course.

30th Aug 2010, 00:15
I always found it interesting that my father and those of his generation always talked about where they belonged to. not where they were born but where they belonged to! is that just a Scottish thing? does anyone else say that they belong to a place?

30th Aug 2010, 00:53
The late great Will Fyffe was born in Dundee in 1885, but he lives on his immortal ballad
Ah belang tae Glesca.
An' Glesca belangs tae me.