Training in South AFrica

[sa_pilot]

Hello all

I am a brand new member and am currently looking for the best flight school to train with in South Africa. I know that you prefer to not get involved in "which school is the best" type discussions but I was referred to this forum from Pilots of America.

I was hoping that you may be able to offer a good outsiders opinion on training in South Africa as my son is about to put down a deposit on his flight training. After spending a year working to save up for this course I want to make sure that he makes the best decision.

I have been told that 43 Air School (http://www.thepilotportal.com/Pilot-Training-and-Flight-Schools/43-air-school.html) is one of the top 3 flight schools in the world.
I have also been told that Aptrac Aviation (http://www.pprune.org/url=http://www.thepilotportal.com/Pilot-Training-and-Flight-Schools/aptrac-aviation.html)trains many international pilots.

It is a difficult choice but Aptrac is quite a lot cheaper than 43 and many say at least as good.

Does any one know anything about these two schools?

[Leo777]

Hi,

I Have heard from many guys that 43 is very over-rated and expensive.

It is a large flying school and you're just a number there and train with many different instructors (no personal attention)

Don't know anything about Aptrac though...

Leo1

[sa_pilot]

Thanks Leo

We have heard about similar issues from pilots who we have spoken to in South Africa. My son has decided to go with APTRAC in the end. It looks like a good school an its close to home.

[GgW]

http://www.flightacademy.co.za (http://www.flightacademy.co.za/)

A very good flight school outside Port Elizabeth.
They have their own airfield, but also do a lot of training at Port Elizabeth airport.They also have a much newer fleet than 43 and Aptrac.

[ct2003]

Pls also use search function. Topic was already discussed on pprune several times.
Nevertheless, have fun!

[captain.weird]

Why don't apply to a cadetship with SA Express or something like that..

[Cardinal Puff]

Is that the sound of a can opener releasing a crop of worms I hear...?

[jbayfan]

You are not helping yourself asking about a flight school on a general forum. There are many schools trolling these forums and recommending their own schools.

I suggest that you visit the various schools in SA with good reputations, meet the management, view their facilities and speak to their students. Then you will know which school to attend.

I suggest, on the coast, 43 Air School, APTRAC, Progress, FTC George.

Around Joburg, SAFTA and FTS.

Cheers

[swagger]

I belive you put him in different schools based on the stages of training he is going through.But recomend Progress for PPL up till he has gotten he's CPL subjects,because they have a very good ground school which APTRAC don't have.I trainned in both schools and Progress was much professional APTRAC had a standard training and was more about money and now they have new management and not sure wat it's like now but if u talking value for money go to Progress

[sa_pilot]

Thank you for all of your input.

captain.weird: Do you know anything about affirmative action? As a white male I have been told that that is out of the question. Am I wrong? can a white male stand a chance of scoring a cadet-ship at a major airline?

swagger: My son is looking at a cadet program to help get to CPL. Sticking with one school may help.

jbay fan: thanks for your suggestions. In the end he joined up with APTRAC. He is having his intro flight today.

gGw: Progress was one of the schools on his shortlist

Everyone's help is appreciated!

[CCUaviator]

hello everyone,
Can anyone please tell me if there is any flight school in South Africa(around Jo'Burg preferred) who has a C206 which I can fly for a few hours. I have a Canadian CPL with 250TT. And also to fly PIC there Do I need to convert my license?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance .

[sa_pilot]

Hi CCUAviator

Checkout The South Africa Pilot Training Portal (http://www.thepilotportal.com), they have an advanced search function where you can search by anything including training aircraft. This page shows flight schools with a c208 (http://www.thepilotportal.com/reviews/tag/trainingaircraft/c208/?criteria=1)

Contact details for the flight schools are included there.

I hope this helps.

[tangowisky]

hie my friend well i think i can remember one school in jobourg that has that has that aircraft its U CAN FLY OR LEARN TO FLY i think one of the two. its at Rand airport in Germiston very fast aircraft and yes to fly bas PIC u will need to do ur validation couple wit some thoeretical exams maybe Airlaw and procedures, Meteorology, maybe Navigation couple wit some few hours of flying to make up wit the CAA hour requirement. or simply check the site. Hope this helps

[pevans_om]

Hi CCUAviator

You might try contacting MAF (Mission Aviation Fellowship). I believe they're now offering conversion training on their C208 and C206's. They're at Lanseria.

Paul

[COCKyPIloT]

Career Guidance - Flight Training South Africa Pilot Training Garden Route (http://www.flighttraining.co.za/index.php?comp=content&id=17)
Give the above article a read, very informative(Wish I had taken Captain Waldeck's advice). As mentioned by Captain Waldeck be wary about school's that requires a huge non-refundable deposit. Don't become fixated with this "Top" school ****, there are plenty of smaller cheaper schools offering better training than supposed "Top" schools.
If you insist on a "Top" school pay the deposit for a PPL only, if you are satisfied with the school then go ahead and pay the deposit for a CPL. As said over and over again visit the school's; talk to the students.

[gluvsleeds]

Hello All

Can anyone tell me please what it would involve to convert a Canadian CPL or PPL to the South African equivalent?
I hold a Canadian CPL and am considering training for a multi/ifr rating in South Africa.

Also which of the South African schools would anyone recommend for a multi/ifr rating?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Cardinal Puff]

Plenty of schools around. Which area would you prefer? Highveld thunderstorm season coming up but the days are usually good until about 3pm. Coastal weather has usual cycles of rain and sun but a bit dryer than their winter weather now. Highveld in winter is cold and clear on the whole.

As for aiming for the so called top rated schools, it's down to the individual in the end. I've worked with a couple of real doozies from the supposedly best school in SA and heard of a couple more that slipped through the net from friends and colleagues. Flown with some good crew from the lesser known schools too, so it gives the lie to the idea that the school has much bearing on the issue. Problem is, some try to use the school they attended to score points and are quite miffed when it gets them no additional bump up the ladder.

[gluvsleeds]

Cardinal P

I'm not particular about the area too much although i have had a look at the schools on the garden route (George) and they look good, well the websites do. Having said that it would probably be more convenient to train at Johannesburg so either really. And ideally i'd like to fly real IMC as opposed to under the hood. 1st thing to do will be to convert my Canadian CPL though.

I agree with what you're saying about schools & students. I trained at a highly regarded school in Canada and saw students there of varying aptitude. Of course we want the best training available but ultimately it's down to the students attitude and ability.

[BrendanWilliamson]

I am instructing at Skyhawk Aviation operating out of lanseria, 172's, cherokee's & a twin commanche for multi IF stuff, smaller school than 43 and you will be less of a sausage coming out, lanseria provides large airport experience, with full instrument approach facilities. Training here will give you the confidence to operate into any airport in South Africa.

[cavortingcheetah]

One of the problems with Lanseria is the inordinate amount of time and money that can be chewed up taxiing over the horizon and into the dim blue. That's without holding at the holding point for a couple of aircraft on a long final.
Once you're airborne of course the instrument facilities are pretty good although who has any idea what the booking time for an approach and go round and rejoin might be like?
Advanced training as in IF from Lanseria perhaps but basic training up to PPL and even initial twin rating at least, then I'd stick to Grand Central. That airfield can get quite interesting at times when it's busy.There are a couple of schools there both of which I think run ground study courses. Of course in the glory days Rand used to be the gold standard. If you could hack that place on a busy circuit day and not stray into controlled airspace, then you were on your way. But the Transvaal Aviation Club was a flying club in those days with its own aircraft and the right of admission was reserved and executed sufficiently to keep standards fairly high most of the time.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Do your son a favor and send him to the States for a real licence. SA aviation is a joke.

[cavortingcheetah]

This post is also in Professional Pilot Training. I apologise if that's not allowed but the two threads seem to run together. The Great Powers will of course delete as they see fit.

It's too long since I trained at Van Nuys for specific comment to be fair about US flight training.
Something is afoot with flight training in South Africa and I can't quite put my finger on it.
It seems to me as though training schools are being pushed into a corner either by the CAA, whose old style hands on approach to training seems to have gone, or by the airports from which they operate. It's almost as though training establishments are not wanted and has their client base changed completely? What has happened to Private Pilot Licence Training as opposed to training for the Commercial Licence? Is private licence training for its own sake a dead fly? Schools seem to have a preponderance of commercially orientated pupils from the east across the waters or up country across the deserts. If South African schools have become training centres for foreign students that may well be in part because certain foreigners find it difficult to obtain Visas for the USA these days. That's probably bread and butter for the local schools but do I detect or imagine a change of attitude among instructors that indicates that training is now not so much a vocation as a turkey farm? That's understandable if the first set of circumstances which I spoke about is correct but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that there is a great danger here for a gradual and involuntary erosion of attitudes as well as standards. Flight training was always a stepping stone of course but I don't suppose it's helped outlooks that thanks primarily to economics the progression across that stony path has been slow. Then too there is the quality of ATC at certain airfields. Dangerous situations due to inexperience or lack of ATC training cannot always be explained away by calling them character building or whatever excuse one wants to dredge up for inefficiency.
If I were starting out with a bundle of bucks and an acceptable passport, I think I would very seriously consider going to the USA for my training. I think the experience of training from of a relatively busy US airfield with its functioning instrument systems, weather considerations and infrastructure would be of such value to the aspiring South African commercial pilot as to be worth considering. The fact that attitudes at American airfields might be utterly commercial is no longer of any disadvantage whatsoever to the student pilot at whatever stage of his training he may be.

[jbayfan]

As a shareholder in an SA flight school, I have to admit that most schools in SA are under pressure, mainly from an overly bureaucratic SACAA.

Our theory is cumbersome and, although very comprehensive, it is not presented or tested in a way that will offer the student the most benefit. I have no problem with the flight training requirements.

Additionally, the maintenance oversight section of the SACAA seems intent on creating as many obstacles and hurdles for GA and commercial operators without any regard for common sense or commercial viability. They grounded one of our twins a few months back because one screw was missing from the tailcone fairing. They require two qualified and type rated engineers to sign off every major maintenance function, but will not allow a small AMO to use the services of the second qualified engineer from another AMO that is not based at the same field.

Small and / or dodgy operators are allowed to continue training and even after being closed down they generally open again a few weeks later. They charge low prices, often below cost, and make their money by skimping on aircraft maintenance, administration positions and by other devious means such as charging students exorbitant financial penalties for leaving their schools when they want to cancel their training.

Then there is SARS who do not allow us VAT exemption on the training of individuals. All educational institutions in SA who are registered with the Dept of Education are VAT exempt, but ATO's are registered and licensed by the SACAA so we are not able to gain this exemption. Most schools outside SA are tax exempt.

Would I train in the USA if I had to start all over again. Yes and No. It depends on my end goal. Cost and efficiency are a big plus for training in the USA, but there is a definite stigma to having trained there when it comes to getting a job outside the USA. The FAA license is seen as an "easy out" by many doing the hiring in countries outside the USA. My only saving grace was my military flight experience in the US Army and that I had spent two years flying for an SA operator before my SAA interview.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Good training doesn't have to be classed as difficult for it to be good. It needs to be sensible, comprehensive and well structured. That's where the FAA is way ahead of the rest.

There is an old stalwart frame of thinking that training systems need to be nigh on impossible in order for them to be good. The 'easy out' view is, in my opinion held by those who feel they need to protect their own overly tedious syllabi and systems that don't necessarily make sense, or produce the best pilots, but sort of define that country's training standards. Protectionism if you will.

There are huge problems with training in SA. Yes the schools are raking in cash, and waving their flags proudly to anyone with a fat enough wallet, however, there is a fundamental shortfall in the transfer of experience that is taking place. The pyramid of knowledge and experience is turned on it's head, and we are building pilots with serious, deadly voids in their aviation foundations.