Passenger window blinds.

[gordon2uk]

hi,
I have only travelled on three long haul flights, these being to Hong Kong with Cathay Pacific. On every occasion passengers we were asked to close the window blinds for most of the flight. This happened on both the night and day flights. Does anybody know why they do is and is this standard practice with all other airlines. To me it was frustating of not being able to see out.

[Juan Tugoh]

Generally IFE screens can be viewed better in dark cabins, it also allows those who wish to sleep to do so - remember not all passengers will be on the same daylight timings as you.

However, if you want to look out of the window that is entirely up to you, you have paid for the ticket, so enjoy the experience. That said, if the light is obviously disturbing those around you, then common courtesy dictates that you shut the blind.

[Dubaian]

It's fairly standard practice now. On a daytime flight, it keeps the bright sun out. If your aircraft is for example doing circuits while waiting for a landing slot, the way the sunlight appears to swing around the cabin can upset nervous fliers. And as pointed out it makes the video screens harder to see.
On a night flight I'd guess it just sort of contributes to a calmer cabin environment with fewer reflections and possible distractions.
In any case, I find that given the height that long haul aircraft generally cruise at these days, together with what might be haze or air pollution, it's rarely possible to see very much out of the windows other than at take-off and landings - when all the blinds must be up.

[Juan Tugoh]

take-off and landings - when all the blinds must be up.
Dubaian is online now Report Post Reply

That is not true for all airlines. BA for instance have no requirement for blinds to be up for take-off and landing with the exception of a couple on either side of the upper doors on the 747.

[Dubaian]

OK - I stand corrected. But I've been SLF long haul for many years and CC have frequently said it is a requirement to have blinds open then. I thought it was some sort of IATA safety regulation. But if it's not, it's not....
Me I use aisle seats now - used to like window seats but ease of movement plus the fact that you can't see much from 40,000 ft anyway changed my preference.

[HandyAndy]

It may or may not be a legal requirement to have the shades up during take-off and landing however it is my understanding that the reason for such requests is that one's eyes are adjusted to the light levels on the outside of the aircraft just in case there is a need to evacuate.

[Betty girl]

Window blinds can be up or down for landing or take off but thoes on a door have to be up. Cabin crew may ask passengers that are seated adjacent to an exit to put theirs up also as it is important for the cabin crew to be able to see outside if nessasary. ie if an incident happened.

Some airlines may adopt different procedures to this however.

On a night flight the blinds are put down to stop the sun waking passengers up on a night flight. Because of the time changes sometimes it could be 3am in the morning for thoes sleeping but actually 6am outside where you are flighing over so therefore the sun would be very bright and low and it shines directly into your eyes.

Daytime flights are different and mostly it is left up to the passengers but if the sun is low or very bright it can affect the video screens so maybe this is why Cathay do this.

[PAXboy]

Hi gordon2uk and welcome to the cabin. There are a number of points covered in the Forum FAQ at the head of the page. This one may help you.

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/292584-why-window-shades-up-during-nightime-ldg.html

[Skipness One Echo]

BA for instance have no requirement for blinds to be up for take-off and landing with the exception of a couple on either side of the upper doors on the 747.

I'm pretty sure I've flown BA and they have always insisted on all blinds up?

[Juan Tugoh]

I'm pretty sure I've flown BA and they have always insisted on all blinds up

I could quote chapter and verse on this from the relevant manual, but Betty Girl has already covered this in her own words. It is not a BA requirement.

[Common Sense Flyer]

I've lost count of the amount of times an inconsiderate, ill-mannered oaf has decided to disturb my rest by flooding my row with light. If people want it shut, then leave it shut.

[ZFT]

....and if someone wants to look out of the window, why shouldn't they? What's ill mannered about that?

[Lotpax]

I've lost count of the amount of times an inconsiderate, ill-mannered oaf has decided to disturb my rest by flooding my row with light. If people want it shut, then leave it shut.

Maybe time to invest in a good eye mask, if sleep is so important to you?

An airliner is a public transport vehicle and disturbance is part of the deal. I use an eye mask and also in ear sound cancelling earphones playing soft music.

I still get disturbed sometimes, but as I can't afford private jet travel .... :E

[Lotpax]

I could quote chapter and verse on this from the relevant manual, but Betty Girl has already covered this in her own words. It is not a BA requirement.

Not doubting you for a minute, but I have been on BA flights where the FA's have asked people to raise the blinds (away from the exits) for landing.

[Basil]

Irrespective of the rules, I think it's a good idea to have blinds raised for T/O & Ldg. Reason? In a catastrophic situation I want to see what's happening outside.

[Juan Tugoh]

Irrespective of the rules, I think it's a good idea to have blinds raised for T/O & Ldg. Reason? In a catastrophic situation I want to see what's happening outside.

I agree entirely, but I hate being lied to, if it is a requirement then fine but if the CC want it up for their own reasons, then that is a different matter.


Not doubting you for a minute, but I have been on BA flights where the FA's have asked people to raise the blinds (away from the exits) for landing.

They may have asked for the blinds up, and I am also not doubting you, but there is as Betty Girl has said no BA requirement for this. Other airlines may differ and it is, as Basil has said, a good idea.

[forget]

Quote. Common Sense Flyer. I've lost count of the amount of times an inconsiderate, ill-mannered oaf has decided to disturb my rest by flooding my row with light. If people want it shut, then leave it shut.

This month's Prune Gold Star for the least appropriate user name. :ok:

[KBPsen]

....and if someone wants to look out of the window, why shouldn't they? What's ill mannered about that? [Sarcastic rant]
Yeah, along with the ticket I bought the seat, the side-wall with everything in it, including the blind, and part of the seat back in front of me. I need that to grab onto to lift myself out of my seat. I would never use the armrests for that. I bought a piece of the carpet too and are thinking of taking it home with me.
[/Sarcastic rant]

[Lotpax]

So you are saying that the person sitting next to the window has no reasonable basis to keep the blind open and that a person not sitting at the window has a reasonable basis to demand that it is kept shut?

[Skipness One Echo]

I've lost count of the amount of times an inconsiderate, ill-mannered oaf has decided to disturb my rest by flooding my row with light. If people want it shut, then leave it shut.

You are free to use a blindfold thingy (what's the real name?) that covers your eyes. Lots of people have them on long haul and sleep better as a result. In doing so you shut out the light from the window and the other guy gets to watch sunrise over the Himalayas and appreciate the wonder and beauty of nature. No I'm being serious, it's a joy to me and privilege to be able to do so, kinldy consider me as well as I love my window seat and want to make use of the view.

[raffele]

You are free to use a blindfold thingy (what's the real name?) that covers your eyes.

Eye mask =P

[OFSO]

Slight TD:

Billy Connolly asked in one routine why those a/c which had windows in the toilet/restrooms always fitted obscured glass: "will there be some pevert flying alongside the aircraft wanting to see in ?"

Good question.......

[Cool Wavy NG738]

How's this for a sensible compromise?, I fly for an airline in the UK and it's quite simple, close the blinds where people are sleeping and there are vacant window seats, and let the fare paying window seat guests that are awake choose for themselves. Why upset your customers by being inflexible over it?

Incidentally I will challenge any cabin crew member over this if I am flying on a ticket I paid for myself, but generally I will only crack open the lower part of the blind unless it is a normal daytime flight.

[SMT Member]

Was on a trans-atlantic flight last year, going East to West. About half-way across, the stewardesses take a walk down the aisle, asking pax to close the blinds. We're sat in Business-class, me at the aisle seat and mate by the window. We're both keeping ourselves busy marvelling at how beautiful Greenland is on a clear day, with icebergs floating down fjords, the snowcapped mountains - those of you who've been there will understand.

Anyway, hostie ask my mate to lower blind, to which he politely says "I'd rather not, we're really enjoying the view". Hostie insists he lowers the blind, mate says 'I'd rather not". Hosties snaps and tell him to lower the blinds for the comfort of other passengers "who are trying to sleep" to which I reply "well then they're a bunch of idiots; nobody should sleep on a westbound unless they wish to suffer from jetlag for days". It should be noted, this was business class and the cabin was full of seasoned travellers. When I stood up to visit the loo about 1/2 hour later, not a single soul was napping.

The blinds stayed up but I suppose we very much made the stewardessess' shyte list.

[PaperTiger]

It's an airliner; it's not a cinema and it's not your bedroom.

Public transport involves being in close proximity to members of the public some of whom will doubtless annoy you. If you want to control the window shade, select a window seat.

It isn't all about you. :=

[KBPsen]

It isn't all about you. :=

If you are in a window seat apparently it is.

[Peter47]

It happened to me, flying BA back from HKG comes to mind. Actually most of the crew wern't too bothered but one FA was being difficult. I compromised left the blind slightly up, put my hands around my head to act as a shield... and continued looking out of the window. Isn't that why you select a window seat?

That said direct sunlight can be very powerful and offputting. I always try & get a window seat on the other side to the shining sun as you can see better (I'm obviously a POSH type). I seem to remember from my youth that the old BEA tridents had both full blinds & also a filter that reduced the intensity of light. Can anyone confirm this? If so perhaps they should be re-introduced. Does anyone have experience of flying Ryanair which I believe have removed their blinds? I think that I would find it offputting to give the sun shining directly in.

I read somwehere that the Boeing 787 may have windows where the passenger can control the level of level of light allowed through which would be a good thing, but that this can be overridden by the crew - which could be a very bad thing!

I am of the school that believes that the view outside the window is the best form of IFE followed by the moving map. As an aside, shouldn't all IFE systems include cameras looking forward & down as I know that Emirates has. Great for a non-window seat, but it would need to be very HD to rival a window view.

[PAXboy]

I'm SOPH as I always take the sunny side of the a/c! :} I also take my sunglasses with me so that I can enjoy the view. :cool:

I recall one flight to HKG (I think) when the CC walked down the aisle with a long handled pole and closed the blinds of those that were sleeping by reaching over them. I was awake (natch) and prevented her from touching mine. I recall that I was in Y and determined to see as much of the landscape as I could. If this WAS the time I was doing a contract in HKG, then it was VS.

Next year, I am hoping to go to NZ for the first time and even if I go West-about, I shall have the blind open on the sunny side of the plane.

[rmac]

I fly long haul overnights often. Eye mask on, earplugs in and then sleep till someone shakes me before landing. By that time the blinds have been up for ages and everyone else has had breakfast and I haven't noticed a thing.

So no need to get precious about those who want a decent view.

[bagsybtmbunk]

Hi Juan

It may not be the law that dictates window blind setting for take off and landing but it most definitely is a VS requirement to have blinds up for t/o and landing.

As previously mentioned the reason is for the crew to easily have a full view of what is going on outside the aircraft with one glance, 'in the unlikely event' as well as a means for your eyes to adjust to outside daylight conditions. The very same reason cabin lights are dimmed for t/o or landing in the hours of darkness.

Whilst it is not necessarily the law, it is the airline's safety requirement and therefore to refuse would go against the Air Navigation Order. The Captain has the final say on board any aircraft and if the blind setting is within the airline's procedures then he would request all blinds up for t/o and landing without a doubt.

[Shack37]

Next year, I am hoping to go to NZ for the first time and even if I go West-about, I shall have the blind open on the sunny side of the plane.


No ifs or buts or unless? Not even if it's disturbing some other pax who's trying to get some rest and has the sun shining directly on his/her face?
Possibly a little inconsiderate?

[Lotpax]

Possibly a little inconsiderate?As others have pointed out, people wishing to sleep can use masks (and ear plugs) - I know I do on long haul.

I certainly wouldn't expect another passenger to miss out on a fab view, because I need to rest.

That would be extremely selfish behaviour IMHO.

[TightSlot]

ANZ also mandates blinds open for take-off and landing. It is, in fact, a quite normal and routine procedure around the world.

N.B. - British Airways often go their own way on rules, procedures, equipment (to the extent of having their own galley design standards in the past i.e. Not ATLAS or KSSU and the use of AERAD in lieu of Jeppesen) on the ground and in the air. They believe that their way is the best - It may be so, who knows: The rest of the industry tends to watch with an amused and tolerant smile and let them get on with adding costs to their business.

[Juan Tugoh]

VsFsm_Oct1990

It may well be a VS SOP it is not a BA one. I happen to think it is a smart thing to do, but then I think that there are a lot of smart safety related things that people don't do.

You are correct in your analysis wrt the ANO and the Captain's authority. What is more difficult is when the CC decide to tell you to do it for take-off and landing and it is not a company SOP - at this stage you have no way of knowing whether it has come down from the captain and is therefore a legal command or whether the CC on the day have had an idea and it then has no legal authority. Either way I guess it is easier to comply than potentially act in a criminal fashion, ignorance is no defence in English law.

Tightslot

You got it spot on about BA, the "not invented here" syndrome is very much alive and well at BA. As far as management are concerned they are the only ones who know anything about aviation. Just ask an Airbus pilot about the autothrottle!

[aviatordom]

You pay for the window seat, you have control over the window-blind, in my opinion. Apart from T/O and Landing of course where it should be open for reasons discussed before.

Don't complain and make the poor window seat people who paid to look out the window at the beautiful landforms and admire the engineering of the aircraft's powerplant/wing suffer and sit in darkness when the problem can be solved so easily:

a) Eyemask. Its either given away free in an amenity pack or you can get one for a couple of pounds, tops.

b) Improvise! If you don't have a) then you are bound to still have a jacket/sweatshirt/hoodie that you could use to cover your head/eyes.

[Shack37]

Don't complain and make the poor window seat people who paid to look out the window at the beautiful landforms and admire the engineering of the aircraft's powerplant/wing suffer and sit in darkness when the problem can be solved so easily:



As others have pointed out, people wishing to sleep can use masks (and ear plugs) - I know I do on long haul.

I certainly wouldn't expect another passenger to miss out on a fab view, because I need to rest.

That would be extremely selfish behaviour IMHO


In that case you're not really very much in need of rest. Or the other pax is the one being selfish.


OK. I give in, let's reserve all the window seats for six year olds who have never seen the ground (or flown) before.

[Skipness One Echo]

OK. I give in, let's reserve all the window seats for six year olds who have never seen the ground (or flown) before.

I always think of this when I'm at one FL350 crossing the snowcapped mountains with not a trace of human civilisation from horizon to horizon. Then I turn and see my fellow men eating, farting, scratching and watching entertaining pictures on the back of a seat. It's usually at this pint that someone demands that I shut the blind....

No wonder people think meat comes from Tesco (!)

[G-BPED]

In that case you're not really very much in need of rest. Or the other pax is the one being selfish.


OK. I give in, let's reserve all the window seats for six year olds who have never seen the ground (or flown) before.

Better still, if you want darkness you can travel in the cargo hold :ok:

[Rwy in Sight]

No screaming kids there too.

Rwy in Sight

[Shack37]

Hey, I already said I give in.

[spiney]

Jeez... get a life guys..

[choxs]

Afternoon All….

I think it’s quite amazing that you can write three pages on ‘Should the blinds be up or down’ lol…however, I do apologise if this has already been covered.

As I work within this field I hope that I have a reasonable understanding of policy and procedures and legislation. (I hope!) I know that every carrier has different SOP’s, but I must say just from experience all the airlines I have flown with over the years have always requested the blinds to be up during landing and take-off.

I was on the understanding that blinds should be up for landing and take-off so that passengers and crew have adjusted to the natural light.….therefore, in case the unfortunate happens and you have to evacuate the aircraft your sight is already adjusted to your surroundings (within reason)

Remember – it always takes time for your eyes to adjust to natural light, I especially notice it when leaving the office or even when I am at home and turning out the lights in your bedroom – at first you can’t see a thing, after a few minutes you can.

It’s like the real reasons as to why passengers go into the “brace brace” position, why you bend down between your knees and place your hands behind your head…..ill not give away the answer (yet) as I would imagine everyone has a different opinion on this too.

Have a safe evening all