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The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 12:25
I haven't found a conclusive answer on the car forums I have read or on the DVLA website, so knowing that PPRuNe is the fount of all knowledge here goes.

Background
Picking up a new car for the missus tomorrow
Missus' same insurance policy for old car and new
Transfers at the point when new car is collected
Old car then uninsured
Fine, as new owner collects it tomorrow evening

Question
Can the old car be used to go and collect the new one and then driven home afterwards by me on the basis that I have "any car third party" cover on my own insurance for my car? Missus' old car worth peanuts so premium increase aside not worried if it gets bent with third party cover, just the legal aspect of having a taxed and MOTd car on the road for which there is not an insurance policy for it specifically.


TVM

Blacksheep
12th Aug 2010, 12:29
You can drive any car on your own insurance if the policy covers you for third party risks in any vehicle. I just had a mix up over insurance when buying a new car and had to drive my old one home on the new car policy, cos the new car wasn't ready for delivery.

jimma
12th Aug 2010, 12:55
In order to drive another vehicle that is not on your insurance policy using the third party in any vehicle option, the car MUST be insured in its own right (eg be the named vehicle on an insurance policy).

Therefore, if the old car does not have its own insurance policy, you can not drive it on your policy.

Most insurance companies are sensible about this though, and insure both cars on the same day.

The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 13:06
Blacksheep:
Thanks. I know I am covered "insurance-wording wise" it was just whether legally the vehicle had to have an insurance policy connected to it. If not, then I could go to the post office to buy a tax disc for any car I don't own and show the "any car third party" clause on the policy for my car as evidence that the car is insured.

So, you drove the car you mentioned, and you were insured third party according to the wording of your policy, but strictly according to the law, was it legal?


jimma:
Thanks, too. This is the crux of it and is what I thought. My wife's insurer has indeed insured both cars on the same day but the moment she takes ownership of the new car, the old one is no longer covered. This was explained clearly by the insurer several times to stress the point.

I don't think we will be using her old car tomorrow for the drop off!

Gordon17
12th Aug 2010, 13:17
When we picked up my wife's new car last year her insurance policy covered both cars for a few days at no extra charge. I think the cover on the new car started at midnight on the day we were collecting it and the old car was covered for 7 days.

Keef
12th Aug 2010, 13:23
It depends very much on the insurer. Some will provide overlapping cover, some won't.

Storminnorm
12th Aug 2010, 14:47
Best to contact the Insurance Co to check how long the cover
would be for the old car.
Better safe than out of pocket.

The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 14:48
It depends very much on the insurer. Some will provide overlapping cover, some won't.

Correct, Keef, and the little red telephone insurer is one of the latter; I even tried to pay an additional premium to get overlapping cover but the answer was a polite but firm "no".

My wifes car is therefore NOT (confirmed, NOT) insured after we collect the new one, and on the basis that my understanding of the law was probably correct and my own third party cover is not enough, this means it needs to stay at home tomorrow.

Cheers All,
XV

Parapunter
12th Aug 2010, 14:56
Drop the misuss outside the showroom. Make her stand there in the wind & rain until you get home in the old banger & then tell her to get the new car. Simples.

G-CPTN
12th Aug 2010, 15:05
I knew of someone who drove a transporter to collect his new car, then, when unloading it, it ran away and crashed into his 'old' car (Pontiac GTO) parked in his driveway. The damage was such that the new car was winched back into the transporter and returned to the manufacturer (in Italy) to be repaired (Lamborghini).

As it happened, I don't suppose the existence of insurance would have been a factor for the person (ie his family was extremely rich).

BombayDuck
12th Aug 2010, 18:47
While this thread is running, I'd like to ask you lot: What does the term "Excess" mean when you hire a car? I'm sure it's called something else back home. I'm a bit embarrassed to ask the rental guys. And is purchasing Excess Reduction worth it?

Parapunter
12th Aug 2010, 18:56
An excess is a financial contribution that you the policy holder agree to make in the event of a claim. Usually the greater the excess, the lower the insurance should cost. it's just a quid pro quo.

G-CPTN
12th Aug 2010, 19:22
is purchasing Excess Reduction worth it?
That depends on whether you expect to have a claim. Even if the incident is not your fault, the excess still applies (though you may be able to reclaim this from whoever hit you). If you receive damage to the vehicle when it is parked, then you might have no idea who the third party is - or who their insurer might be).

In short, if you are happy to 'accept the risk' that you may be charged the excess (for example if the hirer decides that there is damage of which you are unaware!) then don't pay for the additional insurance. This is frequently an expensive charge, and, if you are a regular user of hire cars you might like to arrange your own insurance (probably cheaper than the per diem cost of using the hire company's insurance).

If your car hire is being paid by your employer then take the extra cover (unless specifically told otherwise). You might be able to discuss this with your employer (or it might be better not to mention it . . . ).

In summary, an (insurance) excess is the amount of any claim that is not covered by the insurance. For regular folk it stops minor claims - for someone hiring a vehicle it means the user pays . . .

M.Mouse
12th Aug 2010, 20:22
In order to drive another vehicle that is not on your insurance policy using the third party in any vehicle option, the car MUST be insured in its own right (eg be the named vehicle on an insurance policy).

My policy with a well known insurer states no such thing.

In the case in point I presume the old car is OWNED and registered to the wife.

Capetonian
12th Aug 2010, 20:45
On the topic of rental car insurance and the excess, this is a real money spinner for the rental companies, along with the 'can we sell you the tank of fuel?' scam whereby they sell the same 1/4 tank or so of fuel remaining in the tank over and over again.

Typically the excess waiver is 5/day. This company sells annual policies starting at about 40 and you only need to rent for about 10 days and it's paid for itself.

Car Hire Insurance | Car Rental Excess Insurance (http://www.insurance4carhire.com/index.asp?langID=1&refID=1666&curID=1)

They are an efficient and helpful company and I can recommend them.

The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 20:47
I think I've found a snippet that confirms what I suspected before posting and what some of the other posts had indicated.

In this link (http://www.insurancesos.co.uk/articles/car-insurance/requirements.html) I read "It is compulsory for vehicle owners to have at least third party insurance against liabilities."

Given that my wife is the registered owner, the car indeed stays on the drive tomorrow and cannot be driven using my third party cover.

Thanks to all for contributing and Parapunter for spilling my coffee. :)

boseuk
12th Aug 2010, 21:18
You could explore the possibility of buying "day insurance" - it's typically used if you borrow a car from a dealer or maybe if you are test driving a car.

It normally costs 10 a day :)

M.Mouse
12th Aug 2010, 21:25
You are reading more into the statement than can be deduced from the loose wording.

The implication from that sentence is the fact that it is compulsory to have minimum insurance to drive on a public road.

I maintain that I can drive a car belonging to someone else and meet the minimum legal requirement of having third party insurance provided by my own policy. Nowhere does it say that the driven car has to be insured in its own right.

Cron
12th Aug 2010, 21:32
Cron may be purchasing another car and if so will thus have old car sitting on drive.

So, if I sell the old one and the purchaser drives off and through a speed camera how do I prove it wasn't me at the wheel?

Sorry to be a bit dim about this..

Many thanks for any input.

G-CPTN
12th Aug 2010, 21:34
However, you cannot tax a vehicle unless it has appropriate insurance, and, if stopped by the Police they will want proof that it is covered by insurance. I'm not certain, but I believe that someone, somewhere has to have it covered, otherwise it won't show up in their system. Producing the certificate for another vehicle isn't likely to impress them, either.

Parapunter
12th Aug 2010, 21:35
Yeeees, you are right, but there is a world of difference between being right & being smart. Good luck to you when you T-Bone that Carrera 4 GTS in your mates F Reg Polo 1.2. shitbox.

The bank manager will probably welcome the opportunity to save a Christmas card. Still, you were right all along though to be fair.:)

Parapunter
12th Aug 2010, 21:39
You make him sign the little strip on the logbook - V5 & send it off to DVLA. If you're really anal, you photograph it with one of those time & date stamp cameras once the deal is done.

Alternatively, you go round there with Paulie Walnuts & Silvio Dante & make him an offer he can't refuse.

G-CPTN
12th Aug 2010, 21:40
You should ask for a receipt for the car with the date and time on it and the buyer's signature - in return for a similar receipt for the money (will you be accepting cash - or a cheque?). Most people expect to have any cash transfer 'cleared' and this should include a time.

You should have the relevant section of the V5 document in your possession.

The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 22:03
will you be accepting cash - or a cheque?

I'm too kind... I'm giving, that's g i v i n g, this fit, totally reliable, and pro-actively maintained 306 to the mechanic at the terrific local Peugeot dealer that has done the things like cambelts that I've not had the time or inclination to (gone are the days of my teens when I rebuilt an engine from scratch) and who has always gone out of his way to be helpful.

By pure chance as my wife and I lived nowhere near where we do now when we bought the car second hand eight years ago, he PDId it when it was supplied new to the original owner fifteen years ago, too.

What goes around comes around, and on this occasion it's nice that we can ensure that it's to thank for what we have received. I tend to keep cars - most things actually - for their economic life or at least until I've well and truly had my money's worth out of them, so although I will no longer care I am pleased that the 306 is unlikely to be crushed by this time next week. That would be a sacrilege.

BTW - The comment above about the Carrera 4 made me smile... Having decided to replace the 306 with an MPV, my wife said "Why? We can only drive one family car at a time, and we have the V70 for that. Buy the Carrera 4S you've long wanted instead. I came oh-so-close, but in the end couldn't. I'd worry every time it was out of sight at home, let alone long term car parks*! Instead, her replacement for the 306 is rather different... a C30 T5 SE Sport (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/articles/2009/01/cars/volvo/c30/volvo-c30-t5-car-review)! :) Same red, too.

*Given the disparity between types of car now, swapping according to need will be vital!

The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 22:24
This is asking for a Mod snip, but forgive the changed thread title.
Not my poor English! :)

G-CPTN
12th Aug 2010, 22:33
Yes, XV105, a fifteen year-old 306 isn't worth a bundle - except to the owner. My 306 is ten years old and I can't find a worthwhile deal to replace it. It's a 2.0HDi GLX estate.

The late XV105
12th Aug 2010, 23:21
a fifteen year-old 306 isn't worth a bundle - except to the owner

How true, G-CPTN. How true.

We bought it at seven years of age intending to keep it for one as a stop-gap car, but it proved so good that one year turned in to eight and it's still going strong. As well as pro-active maintenance I've cared for it cosmetically inside and out too, including routine cleaning inside shut lines and so on. Anodised parts on the engine still shine, and the sticky alloy label on the starter motor is still completely legible! Yes, this is a fifteen year old daily driver with eighty-something k miles on the clock. To therefore know it is worth but 300 tops today is galling, let alone that 200 of that is the tyres(!), so I'd rather give it away to a good home than have the potential hassle of sale.

Enjoy yours whilst you've got it!

My mechanic rates 306s as probably the best Peugeot ever built from an ownership perspective and agrees with me that as a bonus the ride and handling combination will stand up to pretty much any car at any price; magic carpet suppleness without Citroen complexity yet with tight float control and pin sharp reflexes. All this on skinny 165x14s, too. Must stop. Beginning to think we should be keeping it! :)

SyllogismCheck
13th Aug 2010, 06:33
Like M. Mouse, I have never seen it declared in the wording of any motor insurance policy I have had that a vehicle driven under the third party entitlement on other vehicles section must also be covered by insurance held elsewhere and relating specifically to it.

I think it's another one of those misconceptions which has been bandied about until it becomes 'fact'.

The only conditions specified in my current policy are that I am licenced to drive the vehicle and that I am doing so with the owners consent. Fulfill those two criteria and I'm insured, end of story.

Blacksheep
13th Aug 2010, 07:36
So, you drove the car you mentioned, and you were insured third party according to the wording of your policy, but strictly according to the law, was it legal?The nice lady at the insurance company said so. Also, the words on my insurance say that I'm insured for third party risk when driving any vehicle with the owner's consent, provided I have a driving licence valid for driving that particular class of vehicle. It says nothing about the vehicle in question being insured by the owner.

I suppose that with my old car now being the property of the dealer (and my own car still being in the dealer's workshop having the extras installed), the new car would have been insured under the dealer's insurance.

If your own circumstances are different you could call your insurer and have them provide temporary cover for the overlapping period.

jimma
13th Aug 2010, 09:01
M.Mouse.

Although your policy may not say that the car has to be insured in its own right before you can drive using the third party cover, it is, in fact, UK law. To be used on the road, a vehicle in the UK must be covered by at least a third party insurace policy. The DOC (driving other cars) option on your policy covers you and not the vehicle.

This rule has been put in place to stop people abusing the DOC option. For example, an 18 year old lad insuring a 1.0 Punto and driving a top of the range Mercedes CLK using the DOC option.

Gainesy
13th Aug 2010, 15:34
Get the new car delivered to you.

The late XV105
13th Aug 2010, 16:54
A lift from a kind neighbour later, I picked it up today. I've heard the C30 called a "Marmite" car, and if so I'm certainly in the "love it" camp. A metallic dark green 306 suddenly looks very sober next to a lipstick red, factory bodykitted, 18" wheeled, lowered, long wheelbase with a wheel in each corner, dual tail piped, C30 T5. I don't think my wife (thirty something) or I (forty six) are having a mid life crisis but the last time I bought anything so overtly striking was in my very early twenties (and even then it didn't have the poke to go with it)!

SyllogismCheck
13th Aug 2010, 23:34
Although your policy may not say that the car has to be insured in its own right before you can drive using the third party cover, it is, in fact, UK law. To be used on the road, a vehicle in the UK must be covered by at least a third party insurace policy. The DOC (driving other cars) option on your policy covers you and not the vehicle.


Can you point me to the source of this information and the relevant 'law'? I had best check it out and let my insurers know that their policy wording is inadequate and may encourage uninsured driving! :rolleyes:

mini
13th Aug 2010, 23:40
I apoligise in advance for reading the first post and no other.

Get a grip, ring your insurance co. They, not various Jet Blasters will have the definitive answer.

Jeez...

SyllogismCheck
13th Aug 2010, 23:53
Simpler still, read the full policy wording as supplied with the certificate. It's the only thing from which to verify the specifics of your insurance policy as all insurers have different policies and some may even differ their policies between their own different policies. :\

Cron
23rd Aug 2010, 20:50
Anyone ever owned, or had experience of, a diesel golf (TDi)?

I'm looking at a 2002 high mileage GTi and would appreciate comments as to pros and cons.

Thanks

Cron.

ShyTorque
23rd Aug 2010, 21:17
I maintain that I can drive a car belonging to someone else and meet the minimum legal requirement of having third party insurance provided by my own policy. Nowhere does it say that the driven car has to be insured in its own right.

I suggest that you need to be very careful of this. Ask your insurer; you may find that you are wrong. Many companies have changed their stance over the last few years.

goatface
23rd Aug 2010, 21:27
Anyone ever owned, or had experience of, a diesel golf (TDi)?

I bought one privately in 2005 at two years old, low mileage with a full dealer service history. Fortunately my village garage, although not a franchised dealer, was ex VW and specialised in them so I was able to keep it in top nick.
I used it for what it did best, regular long journeys and it never let me down once.
Even using people in the trade, parts weren't cheap but the rest of the running costs were very reasonable.

4 years later I was about to sell it when it was nicked and used in a bank robbery, then burnt out.
I still got 71% of the price I paid for it from the insurers, which I thought very reasonable and did even better out of beers on telling the story!

Despite its high mileage, if the car you are considering has a proper service history it should last you a long time if you look after it properly.
If you're not sure, it's worth paying someone to give it a thorough check out, (there are firms who will also check the paperwork and financial history/HPI check as part of the same deal).

parabellum
23rd Aug 2010, 23:11
XV105 - Why not ask the dealer to deliver the car to you, they should use 'trade plates'?

Cron
23rd Aug 2010, 23:46
Another question I'm afraid prompted by Goatfaces's stolen car experience.

Before I purchased my current Peugeot 406 estate I was the proud owner of an Astra 16v Mk2. After the first theft attempt of the Astra I bought a custom steering wheel and modified it to be easily detachable from the hub (reversed the pins and replaced the nuts with big knurled round ones). Thus I went everywhere with a briefcase and inside was the steering wheel - no more theft attempts for 15 years! - this was the days before stupid air bags.

So, to my question, can one remove the airbag from the steering wheel of a vehicle, which was manufactured with a steering wheel air bag, and still get it through an MOT?

Many thanks

Cron.

Loose rivets
24th Aug 2010, 00:15
Excess approximates Deductible IIRC.

So many American insurance terms are the same as the British, it's just they mean totally different :mad: things.


Drive Other Car is something from the past isn't it? Seems very buttoned up in the UK now. My dealings with the Norwich Union - no car claims other then static vandalization - were very good. Claims cover was honored, no record, no cost. They ever wrote a nice letter to my American insurers that saved me $$$$$$.

THAT WAS A WHILE BACK.

Now, in their new name, no 'Drive Other Car'. A very useful item is no more.

Just to paint the picture, recently they really did mess us around.

Talking of a fully insured claim with claim insurance:

"A claim shouldn't cost you a higher premium, but it always does."

This was all while the car was parked.

After losing it with someone in New Deli, I got the customer services in the UK to review the case. They concedes a lot of what I was saying, but to no real advantage.

Back to the OP. The point being one needs to be really watertight. Honor seems a thing of the past.

Parapunter
24th Aug 2010, 06:54
The answer to that Cron is yes you can, but it's not a good idea for a few reasons - 1st you'll more or less permanently have a fault light on the dash as the brain will detect a missing airbag, it's a lot of hassle to do & cars are far more secure than they used to be such that stealing one is far more likely to involve either pinching the keys or takinga much older and less secure motor such as your old Astra.