CHINA medical

[skybullitt]

Hi everyone,

I'm considering a position in China, the package says they do not accept any kind of color blindness.
Now I hold an unrestricted ATPL and a class 1 medical but I have a problem with the ishihara test (those colorful plates with letters and number embedded in them) and can't see many of them.
I did pass what they call a lantern test no problem and was granted an unrestricted calls 1 medical.

Wanted to ask you if you have any experience with the chinese tests and requirements in this respect.

Thanks

[Rotorhead1026]

The two tests I took were Ishihara type plates, but seemed a bit harder to make out. A true Ishihara test is, I'm told, designed to be read under natural sunlight or - at worst - incandescent (soft white) light. The first company did the test in a room light by flourescent tubes; the second was in a room light with incandescents, next to a window on a sunny day.

Here

Ishihara Test for Color Blindness (http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp)

is the Ishihara test. There's a plate at the very bottom that is more like the Chinese test.

[VRSCSE2]

I have seen 2 guys who could not identify the numbers or animals on the Ishihara test here in Shanghai. Both were denied the Chinese medical.

vrsc

[retflyboy]

In the last (bottom one) I don't see either a 5 nor 2; I see an 8. Since 5+2=7 which is less than 8 then I must still have my super-vision.

[Rotorhead1026]

In the last (bottom one) I don't see either a 5 nor 2; I see an 8. Since 5+2=7 which is less than 8 then I must still have my super-vision.

Oh, I forgot. Not only natural or incandescent light ... the subject must be SOBER! :)

[PROBEUSMC]

I can only answer for the airline that I am (trying) working for right now on this and it is not good, but it might be different for a different airline here. There is one pilot with the same problem with color blindness. The solution here is to go to a sim and show the doc that you can tell different colors in the sim. The problem? Nobody will pay for sim time for that, or pay a doc to do that. The Chinese solution? Don't ever call that pilot back.

Sorry. This is Capital/Deer. Don't know about others. I hope it works out for you.

[Fat Ron]

Well, here is my report. I went to Beijing for Deer Jet. I prepared for the written. I passed. As for the medical, I had an issue. I am 35 years old, work out regularly, 5'7" at 165#. I play racketball 4 days per week and weight train 3. I do cardio everyday. During this screening process for the company, I was the youngest and probably most fit person there. Not that these other guys were out of shape, they were not. Just that being a regular gym rat and 35 well had an advantage. Then not really.

During my stress test, I guess there was something that the techs did not like at the top of the test. Hmmm hmm. Like what. Well my cardio exam went on and on. I went for a CT Scan two days later. Following the CT Scan, I had a color Echo performed that came back negative (negative being good). About a week and change later, I received the news that I did not get passed the medical. There was no explanation as to specifics, as to why, etc. So now I am wondering what the issue may potentially be. I am not loosing sleep over this "abnormality" at 160 BPM. Heck I would smoke most people on a treadmill and most cardio.

I have spoken with some other folks about this "abnormality" now that I am back home. One gentleman has spoken with his cardiologist about an abnormal heart beat. In good shape, has had a checkout and given a two thumbs up from his specialist.

So in the end, if you are not perfect, any hearing or vision issues, High BP, operations, wear glasses, on meds, etc...... I would suggest you do not hold out much hope or faith on getting a Chinese medical. Basically, any limitations on your FAA medical is not going to get you by in China

Maybe one of my mistake was checking yes on HEADACHES. Have you ever had a ....................... Who the hell has not had a headache? You have not had a headache, you have not drank enough or your not a real pilot. So, I checked yes, of course I have had a headache.

The B.S. I had to go through and explain this to the techs about what I meant by headache, and the language barrier being clearly present..... was difficult. So check "No" on everything. I think what was meant was Migraine......... no, not really. I know people who do get migraines and they are not pretty.

Out of the 4 of us at this screening process, 3 out of 4 of us had medical issues. One had a vision issue. One had a BP issue. And then there was me, the kid at 35 having a so called heart issue. I watch my diet fairly well. I do eat what I want but do not do beer and pizza every weekend while sitting on the couch watching Ben fondle a girl, I mean watch the Steelers play football.

Anywho....... so there was only 1 man who passed the medical. I was in limbo the rest of the time I was in China. As for the Written, we took this on Friday, our last day there. Out of us 4 Expats to be + 1 local kid (his 3rd attempt),only myself and one other of my fellow peers made the written test. So now, without medical information, 2 out 4 US guys are passing and a chance of only 1/4 making it through this screening.

I think I was the most motivated out of everyone there about the potential of moving to China. I have family there already. Made some good contacts, and was looking for a real life adventure.

Just that this so called issue............ prevented me from going further. If I had my medical details, I would gladly offer you my diagnosis. I doubt I will be offered this information. The Chinese could probably care less about my individual health.

I will not be going further ahead in investigating this here at home as to wake a sleeping dog. I have passed my 1st class medical here and plan on doing so for the years to come. I need not volunteer for a stress test here and end up in the medical circus and being prescribed meds at 35 that I would have to take the rest of my life. These would probably kill me before some cardiac event either by Kidney or Liver failure, or BP or some other great side effect.

I know I am a conspiracy theorist. Not really but.... I care not to get on that pharmaceutical bus.

So as for some other people's questions about the medical, you really need be solid.

For a country of 1.3 Billion people, even if .1% of the population wants to be a pilot, there is still a lot of supply there for them too. So the Chinese airlines can be picky.

I wish this could have worked out. I really do. This event was well beyond my control, clearly. So best of luck to you guys or gals that may be looking at venturing overseas to China. Be positive, stop complaining, thank your lucky stars and God and if you do not like it, then shut the hell up and leave. Nothing bothers me more than cry babies who talk and do nothing. I will check back to see if there may be any further questions. An adventure it was.

[Fareastdriver]

The CAAC doctors work, like the rest of the CAAC, to a set of rules. They will follow those rules to the letter with an initial medical. Fail the colour blindness test, you fail. Once in the system then various slight medical and physical deficiencies are tolerated because you have the company to lobby for you; but they will not do that in the beginning.

Not good news, I am afraid, but that's the way it is.

[2GE]

corrected visual acuity with glasses ... no more than 2 of myopia ... is accepted?

[Rotorhead1026]

I'll second Fat Ron's comments (but wonder, if he's in such good shape, why he calls himself Fat Ron :)). I, too, can do really well on a treadmill or bicycle, and my resting EKG and pulse reflect this. The docs over there actually consider this abnormal, and re-did this test after having me do 25 push-ups (so my resting EKG wasn't quite "resting"). I also have some high-frequency hearing loss (what 55 year old pilot doesn't?) and some fairly common surgeries. I didn't pass the medical either. Overall I'm in as good or better shape than a Chinese pilot twenty years younger than me, IMHO. These folks are either going to have to relax their medical standards, reduce their expansion plans, or start issuing ATP's to 350 hour "captains".

I liked it over there and would go back, but until then it's a situation that'll be fun to watch - until somebody gets hurt. :eek:

[Rotorhead1026]

corrected visual acuity with glasses ... no more than 2 of myopia ... is accepted?

I don't know for sure. Do you mean 2 diopters? They actually test vision with your glasses on, but did ask me what my prescription was.

[Inigo Montoya]

EKG magic number: 60-90BPM

A few years ago when I did the initial Chinese medical, I got called back the next day to redo the EKG. They said my resting BPM was too low, and I needed to do some squats or something to increase it. I was below 60 BPM at the time, and they wanted it 60-90. I had to monitor the BPM myself until I was over 60, then take the test before it went back down. Not to mention they still had to run it multiple times because they were using suction cup sensors and they kept falling off my skinny self. Other Asian countries do the same tests, but some aren't as strict on the BPM or other test results.

[PROBEUSMC]

I am here in China with Capitol for the last 2.5 months. I haven't turned a wheel yet, as we are waiting for more beaurocracy. It has actually taken a turn for the worse the last 2 weeks. In their defense they have treated us very well, and have paid us. The bad? We may never work here.

Each carrier here is a bit different. Even after you pass the med, ATPL, and sim, quit your job and show up for work in China, you still have some other "steps" to pass. Airport ID, which is a criminal and aviation background check, and a work visa. Guess what? They are not no brainers. It is now Sept 6, 2010. Out of the 9 pilots that showed up for work this year, only 2 are on line. 2 others (50%) that started at the same time as the first 2 are home, unemployed. They gave up their day job thinking they had a job here, and didn't pass the airport ID check for some reason.

A few other small carriers are the same, and worse. Some (Spring and I think Sichuan) you also have to pass a CAAC checkride when you get here and they do fail people on that.

Bottom line? Even after you give up your job, come here for work, YOU MAY NEVER WORK HERE. To be honest, unless you are currently unemployed, or your old job will take you back, I don't think it is worth coming to work for most Chinese carriers. Despite the pay promises, the chance of being unemployed is just to great. I wouldn't do it again.

Air China is different. They don't call you to work until you have passed everything but a line check. Same at most airlines.

[169west]

@rotorhead
yes and thanks for your reply! I guess also over there pilots with experience (read age) loose a couple of diopters!

[Rotorhead1026]

I guess also over there pilots with experience (read age) loose a couple of diopters!

Like somebody said earlier, the trick is to pass the first exam. The renewals are not as extensive - plus you (should) have your airline in your corner.

I think the basic problem is they're not used to seeing new applicants that are my age. My fitness level / health is about 99th percentile over there, but most Chinese my age with my medical history are dead. Makes it hard to fit a hiring profile! :eek:

In their defense they have treated us very well, and have paid us. The bad? We may never work here.

I'm sorry you're having trouble. From my experience in Asia the most frustrating thing is the non-communication in such matters. It's the same in India, although they - like Air China - don't call for you until all the security clearances are done. You may yet work, though, due to a bit of controversy. I'll post it on another thread.

Here ... http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=5917938#post5917938

[JotaJota]

@probeusmc

I am here in China with Capitol for the last 2.5 months. I haven't turned a wheel yet, as we are waiting for more beaurocracy. It has actually taken a turn for the worse the last 2 weeks. In their defense they have treated us very well, and have paid us. The bad? We may never work here.

Second medical, CAAC ride or Crew Pass? Just curious...

[non0]

... is there any CAAC publication for the minimum requisite for a class I CAAC? thanks

[PROBEUSMC]

Crew pass for me. Second medical due next month but I have heard once on line they are no brainers. It is the first one that requires you to be perfect.

As for info on Class I, I don't know. I have heard that it can be different depending on who is there doing it. In general, no meds whatsoever, decent eyes and hearing. No abnormalities in blood (my cholesteral is slightly high but I passed).

No stones of any kind. You can get them blasted and come back and pass. Better to do it before you come.

[JotaJota]

Yep, second medicals are always easier. Doing my 6th in a few weeks... No sweat!

The Crew Pass? Woow... Have heard of some having problems on getting it. No clue why the CAAC is so picky about this, and so lenient about other more important things... Oh well...

Know base yet? See you on the line.

[PROBEUSMC]

Sitting in my CAN. Just did emergency training in Chengdu. There were 4 expats, and 6 or 8 locals. We were the "Trailblazers". Hotel blows. Sichuan Airlines contract training. As good or better than any I have ever received.... if.... I was fluent in the local language. It really was a first rate operation, for a Chinese speaker. The instructors were extremely professional.

I have done this training so many times it doesn't matter if I can speak the language. It is a bit troubling that were the "trailblazers". If you know what I mean.

[Fat Ron]

Well to answer the question of how I received the name Fat Ron. It is a fond nickname from High School. My middle name is Ronald. While on our senior trip I ended up attracting some pretty good looking ladies from some other school that were also on their senior trip. Hanging out with my guys, of course through all of the excitement that as 18 guys easily achieve with ladies soon to arrive........ one of my buds starts doing the Fat Ronnie dance outside the hotel with an improve song....

I guess you had to be there. It was a good time..:ok:

As for the lesser, not as exciting details......... as for "Fat" being part of the name..... well I may have been a little chunky....., I stress little ((looking at Kids today and the X-box factor), I was still in good shape then. I pretty much weighed 185# in high school. Like then, I started weight training at 13. So I was still pretty solid too.

Fast forward to today. I weigh less than in high school and still do pretty well. Still ski, cycle, weight train, play racquetball..... etc.

So that is why I go by Fat Ron. It is a fond memory and those that are closest to me, know me well call me that with love, friendship and camaraderie.

If ever reading newswire posts...... and you see Fat Ron, me and the same.

So I use this nickname on forums. Only those who know me well, were there.....know the real Fat Ron. Good people.

Nothing much to do about Chinese Medicals but.........

Good luck fellas.

[Always Moving]

Most are assuming that China is your country!
"Is there some papers where..." "but I am more fit than..."

It does not matter, If you do not pass you do not pass (I heard of a guy in very good shape that the doctor told him that hir BPM was too low, solution do it again doc, he just run up and down the stairs a little, "hmmm ok, ok , ok" THAT is how they roll, the less they do the less possibility of doing something wrong, you do not get promoted for doing things right, you get promoted some other ways....)

It is unfair for them to call you before EVERYTHING is done but like I say that is how they roll.

Also if you know the Doc there is no problem a Hong Bao an dinner "party" the previous day with the doc and you do not even need to show up.

It is useless to fight it, you will only spend money