Bad day at the office!

[Chap6168]

Upset flight attendant activates chute, goes home - Travel - News - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38629517/?gt1=43001)

[Mark in CA]

More details here: Flight Attendant Uses Emergency Slide to Escape Dispute - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com (http://goo.gl/nroS)

JetBlue at JFK.

[crippen]

Air steward storms off plane on emergency slide
An airline flight attendant who swore at an unruly passenger before storming out of his plane via the emergency inflatable slide has been arrested in New York.

By Robert Winnett
Published: 12:33AM BST 10 Aug 2010

Flight attendant Steven Slater ranted over the intercom, passengers said.
Steven Slater, 39, argued with a passenger in America who was attempting to retrieve his hand luggage from an overhead compartment while the plane from Pittsburgh to New York was still moving on the runway.
When the passenger abused Mr Slater, the "runaway" flight attendant appears to have lost his temper and dramatically resigned.

He grabbed the intercom and said: "To the passenger who called be a mother ------, ---- you.
"I've been in the business 28 years. I've had it. That's it."
Mr Slater then activated the emergency exit and slid down the inflatable slide on to the tarmac.
He then boarded a train to the terminal, stripping off his tie and discarding it to the astonishment of bemused onlookers.
He then drove to his nearby home. He was quickly arrested and charged with reckless endangerment and criminal mischief.
Mr Slater is a long-standing flight attendant who worked for budget airline Jet Blue.
According to his online profile, he has previously worked for other airlines.
His arrest appears to have triggered an online movement, with others who work in jobs which bring them in to contact with rude customers demanding his release.Air steward storms off plane on emergency slide - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7935962/Air-steward-storms-off-plane-on-emergency-slide.html)

[dwshimoda]

Steven Slater, 39,

"I've been in the business 28 years.

Not bad starting as CC at the tender age of 11...
:ok:

[hetfield]

Wasn't there a senior US 727 Captain leaving his plane via aft airstairs on the taxiway tired of additional major delay?

[One Outsider]

Well, the man clearly had enough. Perhaps not the most elegant way of showing it but no doubt very satisfying.

[Basil]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/nyregion/10attendant.html?_r=1&hp

Neighbors in California, where Mr. Slater grew up, said he had recently been caring for his dying mother, a retired flight attendant, and had done the same for his father, a pilot.

Mr. Slater instructed the person to remain seated. The passenger defied him. Mr. Slater reached the passenger just as the person was pulling down the luggage, which struck Mr. Slater in the head.
My bold - could be a little legal let-out there.

[Beanbag]

IMHO it's a pity the passenger wasn't arrested, since if anyone was indulging in reckless endangerment it was him. All too typical at NY though, to have a line forming at the door before the aircraft gets to the gate. A well-publicised prosecution might have done something to reduce the problem.

[shogan1977]

JetBlue Airways flight attendant storms from plane after row with passenger | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/10/jetblue-airways-flight-attendant-exit)

The New York Times quoted a police officer who said: "Mr Slater asked for an apology. The passenger instead cursed at him. Mr Slater got on the plane's public address system and cursed out the passenger for all to hear. Then, after declaring that 20 years in the airline industry was enough, he blurted out, 'It's been great!' He activated the inflatable evacuation slide at a service exit and left the world of flight attending behind." :ooh::)

[CargoMatatu]

I don't blame him! :ok:

It always amazes me how the CAs put up with the behaviour of modern air passengers!

There's got to come a point when enough is enough. :eek:

[skidbuggy]

I guess I can understand the popular notion of "Take this Job and Shove It", but I see a greater safety issue here.

The mental instability of the individual and also what-if a ramp hand were in the path of the slide when the he blew the slide? The outcome could've been much worse.

Not a good way to gain one's fifteen minutes of fame.

[Lonewolf_50]

It always amazes me how the CAs put up with the behaviour of modern air passengers!
Given the way modern airlines treat their passengers, please consider that the cabin crew are set up to be faced with a tube full of discontent.

[flyinthesky]

Not normally a forum I would post on, but it never ceases to amaze me how many SLF think that they have the right to stand up as soon as the aircraft touches down. Does anybody actually believe that standing up immediately and getting your bag down, gets you off the beast any quicker.

Personally, on taxi, I always have the PA button selected so that I can hear what my crew are saying over the PA. If I hear those immortal words ' could you please remain seated until the signs are turned off', I give a gentle dab of the brakes. Almost without exception, it has the desired effect and the pax sit back down. Well that's if they're not flat out in the aisle :ok:

This chap maybe was pushed a little too far, and his actions were a little OTT, but I do think cabin crew are pushed to the limit. People just don't seem to be able to stick to the rules anymore!

[TowerDog]

Given the way modern airlines treat their passengers, please consider that the cabin crew are set up to be faced with a tube full of discontent.

Hmm, I guess the result of selling cheap tickets is that you get white trash of all colors as passengers...:sad:

[flash8]

Becoming irate, Mr Slater then used the loudspeaker to tell him off, before grabbing a beer from the galley and activating the slide.

and he even had the presence of mind to grab a beer on the way out :)
Classic!

[flyburg]

It's absolutely brilliant, just deploying the slide makes him an asshole, however, he totally redeemed himself in my book when he grabbed a couple of beers on the way out and probably had angry sex with his boyfriend at home.

In one word "respect" :D

When I read the story, I laughed until I had tears in my eyes!!!

Edit: for those in the unknown, another report said that the police went to his home to arrest him, they found him in a sexual embrace with his boyfriend

[Mark in CA]

>Not bad starting as CC at the tender age of 11...

According to one report I read, Slater's father was an airline pilot and his mother was a flight attendant.

[Mark in CA]

IMHO it's a pity the passenger wasn't arrested, since if anyone was indulging in reckless endangerment it was him. All too typical at NY though, to have a line forming at the door before the aircraft gets to the gate. A well-publicised prosecution might have done something to reduce the problem.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, no word yet on the identity or plight of the passenger, who appears to have committed at least one federal felony.

[glad rag]

Neighbours in California, where Slater grew up, said he had recently been caring for his dying mother, a retired flight attendant, and had done the same for his father, a pilot.

Well I hope that the judge takes a lot of things into mitigation...poor bloke.

[Bill Harris]

This incident reminds me of Kelvin Throop III ("a minor bureaucrat in Canada's NWT who one day cracked and answered all his office mail with the honesty and simplicity of a child"). From Analog SF magazine of the early 1960's:

Kelvin Throop III Quotes - General Discussion - Analogsf.com Forums (http://www.analogsf.com/aspnet_forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=348#post6458)

--Bill

[Mark in CA]

Latest update from the NY Times:

JetBlue Attendant Held on Bail as Lawyer Cites Abuse on Flight - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/jetblue-attendant-held-on-bail-as-his-lawyer-offers-details-of-flight/)


While he sits in jail, there's still no word on the passenger or why s/he hasn't been arrested.

[OFDM]

Sometimes you just have to act. I doubt he'll regret it

shame the human scum he was dealing with werent arrested too.

well done Mr Slater! :cool:

[Navigator33]

What a hero!

[Robert Campbell]

When I was flying night cargo in DC-3s and DC-4s we used to listen to an all night gazillion watt country radio station in Albuquerque, NM. Our favorite song was, "Take This Job and Shove it".

We'd crank it up real loud on the NDB, but, alas, it was just the two of us and a lot of freight listening.

I would love to see some support for Mr. Slater.

[Two's in]

All the evening news coverage in the US taking up a very sympathetic position with Mr Slater. He's definitely in the limelight in a good way now, he just needs the $2500 bail money and he's out for the time being.

[Robert Campbell]

After Rant, Many See JetBlue Worker as Hero | NBC Bay Area (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/breaking/After_rant__many_see_JetBlue_worker_as_hero-100359649.html)

Now comes the book!

[faffod]

Rumour has it (this is a rumour network thread, isn't it) that it was a U.S. Congresswoman. Surely an ordinary mortal would have been taken off the plane in handcuffs. Maybe her secret is in not complaining about the sandwiches.

faffod

[SalNichols94807]

I've been flying commercially since the 70's. I remember those days when you dressed up to fly and the flight crews actually treated you like a cruise ship passenger (yeah, I flew Pan Am a lot). So I've flown and been around enough to witness the change in attitude; from air travel being something special to air travel as a quicker version of Greyhound. I've also witnessed the change in attitude of flight crews towards their passengers; that being one of respect to one of nothing more than grudging tolerance.

Until I retired, I flew weekly; and I always had an appreciation for those crews on TWA and AA that took the time to treat me as a human being. After all, I was actually flying more than any of them, because road warriors don't have monthly flight hour restrictions. I didn't much care about anything else, as long as the plane took off close to on time and arrived within an hour or so of scheduled time. (Yeah, I flew TWA and AA a lot). Even when things went sideways, I NEVER once witnessed a case of a passenger initiating an altercation with a member of a flight crew. I wish I could say the same about flight crews initiating "events" against passengers.

You guys carry the attitude of YOUR PASSENGERS as being nothing more than Self Loading Freight (SLF-your phrase, not mine) on board, and you treat them as such (i.e. cattle). Now you sit in amazement that those same people might not treat you with the respect that you feel that you're due?
Honestly, each and every one of you need to get a grip. You're in a service industry, and your income depends directly on YOUR PASSENGERS continuing to buy tickets on your airlines. You don't DESERVE respect, you EARN it by your actions and your behavior. Try acting like human beings and a little less like air Nazis and you just might notice a difference.

[S76Heavy]

Speaking as a pilot who positions a lot in the back as SLF I prefer not to have some idiot drop their overweight "handbaggage" on my head in the final minutes of the trip because they cannot wait until the a/c comes to a full stop at the gate to get their precious belongings.

Even after it is parked, it will take some time to open the door(s) and only then will anybody get off the a/c; not one second earlier.

So I applaud any Flight Attendant who enforces the logical rule of staying seated with your belt on until we're at the gate; I have also witnessed on occasion the effect of a quick dab on the brakes that is sure to get everybody's attention.

Using the slide to escape from his job was a bit OTT but at least he got a world wide debate going..

[crippen]

As a simple SLF,what does it cost to 'put the slide back'??:hmm:

[Rollingthunder]

Minimum $3,000

[TightSlot]

Rollingthunder is correct

[LH2]

You don't DESERVE respect, you EARN it by your actions and your behavior

Yup, goes both ways though, you know?

Mate, buy your own plane and pay your crew well enough that they would be willing to put up with your pomposity. Problem solved! :E

[crippen]

OOps!:= .

[extralegroom]

"Try acting like human beings and a little less like air Nazis and you just might notice a difference."

air Nazis?! What a ridiculous thing to write. You seem to have lost sight of the fact that cabin crew don't make up the rules of aviation safety, they TRY to enforce them. It's people like you who seem to think you're above the rules, and that makes the crew's job that much harder. Never in the history of aviation has a passenger reached the terminal before the aircraft has, so it's beyond me why anyone would feel it necessary to stand up before it's been deemed safe for everyone to do so by the captain. This particular steward was simply trying to enforce that rule, believe it or not for the passenger's safety and the safety of those around her. She ignores him, and look what happens - he gets hit with her bag. If it hadn't been the steward who was struck, it would have been another passenger who, knowing americans, would probably have then sued the airline for not enforcing the safety rules properly. He's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't.

So I think you'll find you're the one that needs to get a grip. Respect works both ways, and if passengers would just have respect for the job the cabin crew do and follow the rules laid out for everyone's safety, incidents like this would never occur.

[tezzer]

I travel, a LOT. Probably 70 sectors this year already, mostly in premium cabins, mostly long haul. I always resect the cabin crew, and expect the saem in return. I have however witnessed an appalling deteriation in how people behave on planes, for the UK guy in EK business class giving his wife a drunken slap every few minutes to people coming close to a physical confrontation because the overhead bin was full of somoene else's luggage.

I flew Delta from Amsterdam - Mineapolis last week, in Y class and had forgotten just how the attitude is different when I travel on US flagged carriers. I was treated with disdain, food was virtually thrown at me, and the moaning I got when I had the front to ask if I could borrow a pen to fill in my Customs declaration form had to be heard to be beleived. I didn't expect to be treated like a C class passenger, despite being elite plus on Skyteam, but it was truly appalling, and I was at my most polite.

We ARE actualy human beings, and some of us have the class to treat you politely, it would be nice if sometimes this was reciprocated, to those who try and make a difference, witha cheery hello on boarding, and a please and thank you when you sling the tray at us.

As for this guy whi did a runner down the slide, beers in hand, man I wish I had the balls to do that to my boss some days. Respect. :D

[doubledolphins]

So this story has gone global. Masive internet intrest and support for the guy. And it gets moved to SLF. pprune you have lost the plot!!!

[Lonewolf_50]

... it never ceases to amaze me how many SLF think that they have the right to stand up as soon as the aircraft touches down.
Good point, though in the past few years, I have noticed that the cabin crew and the flight deck crew communicate very clearly to the pax the need to stay in the seat/seat belt until all motion stops. If the plane has to stop suddenly, injury if folks aren't in the seats with seat belts on. Just like in a car ... which some passengers don't make the linkage to.
This chap maybe was pushed a little too far, and his actions were a little OTT, but I do think cabin crew are pushed to the limit. People just don't seem to be able to stick to the rules anymore!
The FA did something unprofessional. That said, I certainly understand his frustration with passengers who won't stick to the basics of safety regs.

But here is an interesting point from a related article ...
The 38-year-old airline veteran, who lives steps from the beach in Queens a few miles from the airport, had been flying long enough to see much of the gleam of the air travel experience tarnished by frayed nerves, rising fees, plummeting airline profits and packed cabins.

"One by one all of these niceties have been removed from the customer experience. I think subconsciously, it's causing passengers to be very angry," said Pauline Frommer, creator of the Pauline Frommer Guides and daughter of Arthur Frommer. "There's an us-versus-them mentality."

That mentality is nicely illustrated by the use of the term "Self Loading Freight" by industry professionals on these forums ... ;) but there has already been a thread about that over in the SLF forum. :cool:

[Lotpax]

I trust that due process will be followed and that (barring any emergent defences) this gentleman will be terminated.

This behavior is unacceptable.

[Scarbagjack]

Yeah look, we all have crap days and a hell of a lot of us have been at our jobs for 30+ years.
As much as it appeals to the free spirit in most of us, and was something that most of us would love to do in our respective jobs, it really was a stupid and un-professional stunt to pull ( excuse me ).
I'm not aviation, although I fly fairly often and have utmost respect for the drivers and then the cabin staff of these machines, but ****,what if he bundled it up and then decided to make his statement on his next job at 35000 ft?
The poor guy needs some help, not applauded as if he was Ben Stiller in some movie.
Just my take on it.
Cheers, SBJ

[clunckdriver]

If in fact he recently nursed his father till his death, and is at this time tending to his very sick mother then why is he not being paid to stay home and do just that? Oh, silly me, its our brave new world, where its only the bottom line that counts, not the wellfare of long time employees, in an industry in which profit is the only consideration. {See many threads on this forum from P2F to EK to get this} Further to this, why was the pax not prosecuted for standing when the belt sign was on? Where is the Captain in this?Where is the company?why are they not nailing the pax for endangering the other SLF on the aircraft? Im so glad Im retired if this is the new working enviroment.

[Midland Alpha9]

Skid Buggy has made the most valid point whilst we are slapping this crew member on the back for his actions thank god there was nobody in the immidiate vacinity of that chute when it was deployed.

[Lonewolf_50]

I trust that due process will be followed and that (barring any emergent defences) this gentleman will be terminated. This behavior is unacceptable.
From the story, he apparently already quit, so termination would be redundant. (I enjoyed that pun … )
As much as it appeals to the free spirit in most of us … it really was a stupid and un-professional stunt to pull. The poor guy needs some help, not applauded as if he was Ben Stiller in some movie.
Bingo. Life imitates art.
The guy appears to be an attention seeking toss-pot, nothing more. I would say that this guy perhaps had a slight pysological issue and was more highly strung than most. I' betting he is one of the pre-madonna types we see in the industry and HAS to always be the centre of attention!
Pre-Madonna or prima donna? Madonna is also a bit of a drama queen … as such, I liked your pun! :)
Eitherway, his colleagues in the cabin and those on other aircraft all around the world will continue to cope far better with annoying passengers than he obviously did. How is it every other crewmember around the globe can contain their frustrations? What a tosser! What's the betting he now does the round of talk shows?
And that's the tragic part of America today: Oprah will most likely try to turn this numbskull into a folk hero. I understand there is already an online defense fund for this fella, though he did posts his $2500 for bail already ...
I wonder if the judge will simply stare this man in the face and state the following:
"Mister, it's not all about you."

[moosp]

As a pilot with an international airline I am surprised that more incidents like this do not occur.

The stress level that you guys in the cabin have to deal with, sometimes when exhausted after 16 hours of duty, and the rudeness of some passengers defies belief. Add to that the personal stress that you bring to work but try to repress, and I can only add to the previous comments of 'respect'.

I smiled when I heard it on the news. There but for the grace of God go I. I think many of us have got near the point when we would like to go out in a blaze of glory, tell someone to stuff it and walk off the job.

Perhaps his HR and medical departments might listen more closely to the next person to come in and say "I need some days off for some stuff at home." This is not an office we work in, it requires sharp people to do sharp things when it all goes wrong.

I wish him every success in his new ventures.

[The African Dude]

clunckdriver I totally agree.

Once, landing at Munich in an RJ100 as we came off the runway the guy sitting next to me popped open his seatbelt with a leisurely sigh. After asking him if he knew that, if we stopped suddenly, he would probably knock out the guy in front and break his own neck, his only answer was "Ja, but how often does that happen?!"

It's one of the few things that makes me angry when I think about it, years later. There's no excuse for putting others at risk. I just wish I'd known a better way to get him to see that.

[ConstantFlyer]

Hope the rude, selfish pax concerned gets the book thrown at her, rather than get away with it. It just takes one pax to stand up, and if the crew don't deal with it straight away, several more will follow suit. Any word from this flight's captain?

[Larry the K]

This man is no hero; he abandoned his post, his were the actions of a hysterical amateur.

[Vld1977]

Frustration often comes also from knowing that, no matter what the passenger does and no matter the abuse they throw at you, the company will try to keep them happy and seldom does anything substantial about it.

The passengers don't pay our wages, I'm getting sick of hearing that. The COMPANY pays our wages, and it's the responsibility of the directors of that company to have a clear strategy to make those passengers want to fly with us, as well as our responsibility to keep them happy. My company is obliged to pay my wages every month, regardless of how many passengers "who pay our wages" have we managed to take.

If we go down that road, everyone in society pays everyone's wages.

The problem is that the companies are increasingly trying to attract passengers by reassuring them that they can do what they please, that they have no responsibilities, and that we are supposed to be their servants. And no, we are not servants. If you have missed the flight because you were expecting someone to personally go and tell you to move while you are sipping your whisky in the lounge, without even bothering looking at the flight information screens, don´t expect from me to keep smiling while you engage in a tirade of utter abuse. Respect goes both ways, and we are not talking about grumpy FAs not smiling when they serve the food, we are talking about passengers who insult, threaten and even assault employees because they try to make them follow safety rules or immigration and security procedures, or for not getting an upgrade, for that matter. THAT is a real problem in airports and aircraft around the world, and if this gentleman has managed to bring that to the attention of the media, and that makes our employers to take more responsibility for their employees dignity and wellbeing, then I applaud him, becuase I wouldn't have had what it takes to do that.

The kind of abuse we suffer every day from passengers doesn´t happen enywhere else, supermarkets, train stations, etc. It´s only at the airport, and that is a direct consequence of the companies' policy of pretending to provide a privileged service to their loyal customers.

[cauldron]

Civil suit against the pax is in order I reckon ;)

[Lotpax]

The kind of abuse we suffer every day from passengers doesn´t happen enywhere else, supermarkets, train stations, etc. It´s only at the airport, and that is a direct consequence of the companies' policy of pretending to provide a privileged service to their loyal customers.

I disagree with your analysis and believe that this type of abuse does happen in the places you describe.

Furthermore, I believe that it is a two way street.

Standards in society have fallen and it manifests itself everywhere.

I have seen very rude passengers, ground staff and crew in the past 5-10 years, behaving in a way that rarely happened 20 years ago.

[onboard]

Skid Buggy has made the most valid point whilst we are slapping this crew member on the back for his actions thank god there was nobody in the immidiate vacinity of that chute when it was deployed.

With that much experience under his belt, I'm sure he didn't fail to look out, making sure the slide area was clear.

[lowcostdolly]

Onboard I was just about to post the same view :ok:

As experienced CC myself I don't condone the use of emergency equiptment for anything else than the purpose it as designed for. That said I think Mr Slater, having deployed the slide, should have perhaps used it to perhaps evacuate the offending pax as well...she did after all want to deplane quickly :E

Vid1977 makes some really valid points re a company's approach to dealing with unruly and abusive pax. I have no idea how Jetblue operate but can certainly comment on what is going on at my own.

At present we have a flight to a certain balearic island on which the cabin crew are abused verbally and physically on a regular basis just for asking passengers to observe very basic safety regs and behave in a civilised manner. There have also been cases of female crew being groped inappropriatly and sexual innuendo's and assumptions are made towards our young male crews.

The only support we get in dealing with this is from our flight crew on the day who will call the police and file ASR's on a monotonously regular basis. This is always after we have had to put up with this behaviour during flight. They cannot help us then as they are behind a locked door. We just have to deal with these "valued customers" until then.

The pace of response to dealing with this issue from our Cabin Crew Manager is glacial at best. In fact in the interests of company profit we operate on minimum crew on a flight in which the enviroment has been deemed unsafe at times. He does not seem to want to adress any of these issues so now our union have taken this up

Maybe Mr Slater had just had to deal with one too many abusive pax without the support of his managers and snapped. Whilst his reaction was OTT this is understandable IMHO.

[rogerk]

I think the posting on here from a serving Captain should be made standard procedure.

1. Leave the PA on so you hear the "Please remain seated and keep your seat belts fastened until the aicraft comes to a complete standstill"

2. Count to 5 slowly

3. BUMP THE BRAKES TWICE !!

:D:ok::D:ok:

[Diplome]

I'm rather surprised, and a tad concerned, that many Cabin Crew and Flight Deck personnel are so admiring of this individual. As a passenger this individual would have had me fearful for my safety.

The Devil is in the details.

JetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater's fuse was lit before plane left the gate (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/12/2010-08-12_rage_just_took_off_jetblue_jumpers_fuse_lit_before_flight _left_gate.html)


A few quotes of interest:

Agitated, unkempt and bleeding from the head, Slater dramatically flung aside a life jacket and oxygen mask after giving a demonstration


For Laura Dominijanni, the trip got off to an odd start when she noticed spilled coffee in her second-row seat and asked Slater for help.
"He said, 'Not right now. Maybe when we're in the air, but I have to take care of myself, honey,'" Dominijanni recalled. "I could tell that there was something wrong with him."




Briskin said Slater became irate and cursed at the passenger, whom he is believed to have feuded with in Pittsburgh.
"It really blew my mind," Briskin told The Journal. "It was so inappropriate."


While I have sympathy for Cabin Crew when it comes to rude passengers this individual is hardly an appropriate icon.

As for the presumption that he blew the slide only after making sure it was safe to do so..his behavior hardly indicates an individual acting with concern for the safety of others.

[Lonewolf_50]

Passenger: Flight Attendant Started Fray - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704216804575423932483801118.html)

According to this link, "the rest of the story is" that this FA copped an attitude, as witnessed by at least one passenger other than the one from Pittsburgh who seemed to be up and about when she should not have been.

In light of additional information (of what quality, I know not) I considered commenting upon the knee jerk response in re passengers, rude and otherwise, by some of the posts in this thread.

But I won't bother. It is quite possible that this gent had been considering leaving his job for some time, and this particular day it all came to a head ... if the linked news report is close to accurate, the decision to quit occurred at some point in the air, with consideration of going out with a bang given adequte time to ferment within his mind.

So long, Mr Slater, best of luck in your future endeavors.

[Mpharn]

Being an American living in London, I fly back home to the states several times per year to visit my family.
I've used all different air carriers and all different routes- I go for cheapest, but mostly Delta.
Anyway, I've seen and heard many, many derogatory remarks made to the cabin crew from passengers. I dont know how or even why they have to take that crap.
If it was waitress, they'd probably end up spitting, (or worse) in the food.
So, I understand that guys frustration. It probably built up over many trips and he just couldn't take it anymore. Just like a 'real bad day at the office' LOL.
I think he deserves an apology from the sob passenger and I was also thinking his union should be sticking up for him.
There is no way passengers should treat air crew in this manner....NOT acceptable- IMO.

[Johnny767]

The guy's a psycho and deserves to get locked up. I've seen far more "Passenger - F/A" altercations, started by the F/A.

Comments like this:

The passengers don't pay our wages, I'm getting sick of hearing that. The COMPANY pays our wages, and it's the responsibility of the directors of that company to have a clear strategy to make those passengers want to fly with us, as well as our responsibility to keep them happy. My company is obliged to pay my wages every month, regardless of how many passengers "who pay our wages" have we managed to take.

Passengers, are Customers of your Airline, not the inconvenience that plenty of F/A's think they are.

[stepwilk]

Excellent. The posts by Diplome and Lonewolf 50, just above, are beginning to make it plain that all the "facts" that everybody has been hyperventilating about are simply untrue. Those of us who got today's Wall Street Journal on our doorsteps at dawn already knew it.

Apologies in order from the "Ready, fire, aim" ranters? Of course. But will they? Of course not.

[robertbartsch]

There is NO excuse for pulling the slide handle at a gate and endangering ground crew.

My hope is that this jerk will get the maxium punishment and hopelfully we will not see this again.

I don't undestand why the media would treat this guy as some kind of hero. We don't need heros like this guy.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Why are some nitwits still mindlessly blethering on about "endangering groundcrew"?

Have none of you unimaginative fools stopped to consider that this Professional crewmember might actuallyhave checked the viewfinder before firing the slide? Unless, of course, you have evidence to the contrary. Which of course you do, don't you???

No! Thought not.


IMHO this fella has done this industry a big, and I mean BIG favour in illustrating the imbecilic and undisciplined behaviour of some of our pax, and had the guts/suicidal impetus to make sure the rest of the world saw the reality of "life" as that most despised member of society, the airline cabin crew.

Whether his oh-so public breaking point is professionally defendible or not, I salute him as a man of guts, principle and sheer chutzpah!

Well done, fella! Even if you were wrong in the event, the message was right on target!

Bravo Zulu

[Lonewolf_50]

I am curious as to why some of the folks here think it appropriate to attempt to put a pax in prison for being rude to an FA/CC.

What's your rationale?

Likewise, if this is a first offense, I don't see why putting this guy in jail makes any sense if FAA based charges are filed. Fine and probation ought to be sufficient.

Sure seems to be a lot of pitchforks and torches handy these days ...

[Vld1977]

Johnny767:

I know the revenue comes from the passengers paying to fly with us, obviously. But what I am fed up with is that it has become an explanation for the most irrational of behaviours in our everyday life. A passenger wants to stand up before arriving to the stand, "I pay your wages!", a policeman gives us a parking ticket, "I pay your wages", there is a queue at the hospital, "I pay your wages", the clerk at the bank is too slow, "I pay your wages", the waitress says they've run out of whisky, "I pay your wages!"... C´mon! Everybody pays everyone´s wages, that is market society, for pete´s sake! At the end of the day, if a Vodafone or Sky employee is not happy with their seat and tells me that he "pays my wages", I can always reply that I pay theirs as well!

[extralegroom]

"I am curious as to why some of the folks here think it appropriate to attempt to put a pax in prison for being rude to an FA/CC."

I don't think anyone's suggesting that this pax be reprimanded because she was rude. Hell, if we did that, we'd be jailing hundreds of pax a day. She defied the lawful command of a crew member who was acting in the interests of safety. In the UK, it says in the Air Navigation Order (the "laws" of the air) that pax should not do so. Therefore she broke the law, ergo she should be held to account.

[LH2]

Passengers, are Customers [sic] of your Airline [sic]

Not necessarily. With the European low-costs they are not: they are the product, not the buyer.

Just pointing it out (and btw, there is no need to capitalise every other word, unless you're German in which case it might be excused).

[DownIn3Green]

Wow...so much to comment on and so little time...

"Why turn this guy into a "hero"?" Why not...remember D.B. Cooper...???

As for the pax, if it was true that she was the one who caused the cut on Slaters head, then that's "interfering with a flight crew member" at the least, and maybe assult or more at the most...prosecution is in order...

And as to keeping the morons in back seated until the seatbelt sign is turned off...peer pressure works best...in the days when we could open the cockpit doors after landing...when they stood, I'd stop;, set the brakes, and make an announcement that until everyone was seated again, we weren't moving, and if the rest of the rule abiding folks want to make their connections, it would be in their best interests to "encourage" their fellow passengers to obey directions...Always worked...

[capt.cynical]

I think this guy has had more than his 15 minutes of "FAME" :rolleyes:

[Diplome]

..and now ABC news is reporting that the police have information that Mr. Slater was drinking prior to the flight.

Steven Slater Backlash? - KDAF (http://www.the33tv.com/news/kdaf-steven-slater-backlash-story,0,6888554.story)

and not ONE passenger or fellow flight attendant has come forth to verify his version of the story..quite the opposite.

What is bizarre about this story at the moment is that this nitwit wants his wings back.

Some passengers dispute jetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater's claim that he was provoked (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/13/2010-08-13_out_to_launch.html)

Of course, just what every passenger wants, a Cabin Crew member that, in the case of an emergency, shoves past saying "I have to take care of myself first Honey".

[atmosphere]

All Pitchforks and Torches, you could of killed a groundcrew member aside and just looking at the fundamentals here.....

It is hilarious!!!!!

I think it's great that someone would think f*ck it i'm bailing out and just like that he is gone!! Excellent....

I used to work in an office and if someone annoyed me on the phone etc I would regularly step outside for a breath of air...

Good on this guy for showing the world that we too are human, If I was his CCM I would give him his wings back, his length of service and the fact he has only done this once and showing great restrain in not flooring said passenger should be commended... I am sure he won't do it again, and perhaps passengers on his flight will start showing a little respect, nothing like a little fear to keep the punters in line... :D

But remember fun police, this story is plain and clear... FUNNY :ok:

[Juan Dough]

The truth is slowly starting to come out. In a plane full of people, not one will corroborate his side of the story. Yes folks, let's all celebrate the drunken idiot flight attendant. :D

How sad and pathetic is you life to have this moron as your hero.

[Juud]

Mr Dough, what remarkable powers of deduction. Being able to conclude anything at all about people´s lives from a few posts on the internet. Impressive.

Yet another witness account (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-robinson/i-was-an-eyewitness-to-fl_b_677274.html); Heather Robinson makes a few interesting points, worth the read.

I did not feel in any way threatened by Steven Slater's rant, and I didn't take it personally. I was not insulted by it, but amused. I'd rather hear a flight attendant relate to me as a human being-- "F--- you all!"-- than be on the receiving end of phony, passive aggressive politeness. So "F--- you, too, Steven Slater, you lucky Motherf-----! Hope you get a book deal out of this!"

Same journalist also interviewed another FA for her take on the Slater incident. Yet again an interesting read (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-robinson/interview-with-a-flight-a_b_679246.html), with a point of view I suspect many of us here sympathise with.

excerpt:
"Most people are really nice," Andie said. "But every once in a while there's someone who takes advantage of the fact that we can't say anything back" during an altercation.

Most altercations between flight attendants and passengers occur when flight attendants are doing their jobs, trying to minimize safety risk to passengers, Andie stressed.

"Most of the arguments happen for things that are for their own safety," she said. "Sometimes pilots hit the brakes hard and people go flying. [In aviation history] passengers have, like, hit ceilings and broken their necks during severe turbulence. That's one of the reasons for the seat belts. Most of the time people get mad over stuff that's for their own good."

What he did was clearly wrong, for many different reasons, but how come a person under such personal strain was active crew? And if he himself did not understand that he needed to be off from work, or if he was afraid to call in sick, how come his boss or the airline´s HR department didn´t catch him?
While clearly wrong, the fantasy of doing something like that has an obvious appeal to many of us regularly dealing with people who abuse us for trying to keep them safe.
Abusing us for doing what we have been trained to do, and are by law obliged to do.

[Lonewolf_50]

As for the pax, if it was true that she was the one who caused the cut on Slaters head, then that's "interfering with a flight crew member" at the least, and maybe assult or more at the most...prosecution is in order...
If it was a deliberate act of assault that resulted in a cut head, sure, file charges as appropriate, but that isn't apparent from what has been reported to date.

... where I saw the witch hunting ....
Cauldron's comment: Civil suit against the pax is in order I reckon http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gifclunkdriver: Further to this, why was the pax not prosecuted for standing when the belt sign was on? why are they not nailing the pax for endangering the other SLF on the aircraft?OFDM: shame the human scum he was dealing with werent arrested too.Another post: IMHO it's a pity the passenger wasn't arrested, since if anyone was indulging in reckless endangerment it was him.
Though the pax was reportedly a her? :confused:

However, I seem to have mixed up in my head the fact that Mister Slater was in jail before he posted bail, and the calls to arrest the pax whose baggage hit him in the head when pax was up and about when pax should have been in seat until plane landed and Slater was trying to enforce that well known rule of air travel ...

There was another thread on this in either Jet Blast or Rumors but no matter.

I fail to see reason for arrest of the pax.

On what grounds?

Someone posted this, and I'd like to see elaboration on felonious standing up get get her kit when she should not have.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, no word yet on the identity or plight of the passenger, who appears to have committed at least one federal felony.
I'd recommend that poster read the recent Economist article on the problem of how America is overfilling its jails by setting up rules with inane incarceration requirements for simple infractions.

If the FAA or the State of New York have a statute this pax violated, and testimony to support it, then I suggest the defense will have a field day with whomever brings the case. Why? Apparently, and we have only the media to rely on at the moment, so big grains of salt, there is more than was initially reported here.

Civil suit? Might work out ... I think the case to be made would be made along the lines of a wrong/negligent behavior (getting out of the seat for the kit) ended up in minor injury to Mr Slater (which it apparently did) which required medical attention. Which it did. Damages set ... where?

[clunckdriver]

Lonewolf, You have I doubt never been in command of a long silver tube full of 400 pax. Let me tell you a little story, way back when I was in the left seat of just such a tube, after landing on a very slick runway the pax were INSTRUCTED by both the in charge F/A and myself{AKA The Captain} to stay in their seats, belts fastened as the ramps and taxiways were still in very poor condition, lo and behold one bozo decides to stand, I had to slamm it into reverse and lock the brakes when a snow plow charged at us totally out of controll, the end result? I had to spend my two days of during the next month in court as the pax sued us for whiplash and God knows what else, the judge was not impressed and gave him a large fine for deliberatley ignoreing a lawfull order. After a few years of this behavior it becomes routine to call the cops to meet the aircraft, how the F/As put up with these assholes amazes me. Please dont comment if you havnt been there.

[robertbartsch]

...now this guy wants his job back but JetBlue says it is not possible....

Personnally, if they hired this person back, I would avoid traveling on this airline. Hopefully, they will jail him for a year or so and he will be mowing lawns after that.

Maybe, after prison he can team up with the balloon boy dad and create a reality show. I will not be watching, however.

[Juud]

I fail to see reason for arrest of the pax.

On what grounds?

Someone posted this, and I'd like to see elaboration on felonious standing up get get her kit when she should not have.

Lonewolf, things might be worded slightly different where you are, but I am reasonably certain that the law is the same to all intent and purposes.
In fact, USA laws are usually stricter if anything.

Being more familiar with European law, I easily found Standard Note: SN/BT/2061 from the library of the UK House of Commons.

There are a number of offences that can be committed by aircraft passengers under the Air Navigation Order 2009, such as: entering an aircraft while drunk; being drunk on an aircraft; using threatening language or engaging in threatening behaviour; interfering with an aircraft or its crew; endangering an aircraft; and refusing to obey an order from the aircraft commander. Various penalties are available for these offences, as set out in the following note.


The FSB sign is a direct order from the commander.
The FAs are the representatives in the cabin of the commander; any safety related direction/order given to the pax by an FA is by law considered to come from the commander of the aircraft.

Most seriously, it is an offence under Article 137 to endanger the safety of an aircraft.1 Article 141 gives the ‘commander of the aircraft’ complete authority and states that every person on an aircraft “must obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for
the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation”.

The passenger disobeyed the FSB sign.
She disobeyed Slater´s direction to remain seated.
That´s two clear offenses.
Legal ones.
Or as you would phrase it: "Felonious standing up to get her kit" ;)

When it comes to actual punishment, the situation becomes less clear.

Some countries legislate that disobeying a safety related direction from the crew equals endangering the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, and will fine or incarcerate an offender.
Others don´t.

Perhaps you know what the law says in your country?

PS: Clunkdriver posted while I was typing; from his post it seems that a Canadian judge didn´t see it your way.the judge was not impressed and gave him a large fine for deliberately ignoring a lawful order

[brocstar]

This is my first post on PPRUNE - so be gentle with me please!
My wife is a psychologist and Human Resources professional and I have a consuming interest in the Airline industry and have been following this thread with interest.

It strikes my wife and I that neither condemnation for this FAs action - or praise is appropriate. Perhaps a little bit of understanding is in order. Given the man's home circumstances a passanger ignoring his request to stay seated (however delivered) was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.

When hired the man was probably an A1 candidate for the job - but circumstances change and without Human Resources assessing staff and taking an interest in the mental well-being of their employees events such as this will continue happening.

We have all come across grumpy and unhelpful cabin staff - as well as the sort that make it a joy to fly with them and we have all been on a flight with people that enhance the experience or make it the journey from hell. One has, ultimatly to ask WHY this happened - not jump on one side or other of the bandwagon.

The guy, I think needs rest, recouperation and a different job.
All the best

stuart

[Juan Dough]

Juud:

Being able to conclude anything at all about people´s lives from a few posts on the internet. Impressive.

Thanks. I'm in the impressive business.

What he did was clearly wrong, for many different reasons

Looks like we're having a breakthrough moment. Hugs.

[pb3]

Rogerk:
I think the posting on here from a serving Captain should be made standard procedure.

1. Leave the PA on so you hear the "Please remain seated and keep your seat belts fastened until the aicraft comes to a complete standstill"

2. Count to 5 slowly

3. BUMP THE BRAKES TWICE !!



I dunno - let me pose a couple of "what ifs". What if the silly SLF is a pregnant woman who miscarries as a result? What if the silly SLF falls and seriously injures themselves or worse still another passenger who is seated and buckled up?

Monstrous implications for the pilot and the airline if it transpired that such an incident occured as a result of a "brake check" as opposed to a genuine emergency. The stupidity of the SLF in unbuckling and standing up would not be a mitigating factor.

Chances of the above are slim, but it is would be a brave person who gambles that it could never happen.

I seen a few "stand ups" in many years of flying and in all cases a loud, firm and assertive "PLEASE REMAIN SEATED SIR!" always resulted in the miscreant shamefacedly complying.

[stepwilk]

Don't you people yet know the true story? Try reading real newspapers rather than believing Internet buehlchit. There was no "belligerent passenger. There was no "luggage in the overhead compartment." And it's quite possible, as the real journalists interview more passenger on the flight, that the FA boarded in PIT with his forehead already cut.

[robertbartsch]

I thought the job of the crew was to promote safety. Instead we have this crew member who is endangering the saftey of all including those on the plane and those below the aircraft.

...hope the judge will toss the book at this guy!

As for the passenger who casued the fuss, I hope they put him on the "no-fly" list.

[stepwilk]

Read my lips (and my previous posts): there WAS NO outrageous passenger. It's a Balloon Boy hoax all over again.

[robertbartsch]

Read my lips (and my previous posts): there WAS NO outrageous passenger.


Really? The NY newspapers that are based on NYC police reports must have it all wrong, I suppose. Anyway, what seems clear at this point is that the crew member pulled a dangerous stunt that was totally uncalled for under the circumstances.

This is not a stunt that I want to become common place in the future, so the man should be severly punished and, hopefully, this will provide a sufficent incentive for others not to repeat this.

[stepwilk]

"The NY newspapers that are based on NYC police reports must have it all wrong, I suppose."

Yes, they indeed are, since there were no NYPD witnesses to what happened.

I don't know what NY papers you read, but I subscribe to both the Times and the Wall Street Journal, and the Journal had a particularly extensive piece this morning based on interviews with passengers--actual witnesses. I won't bother to re-report what it said, but virtually none of the original "story" turns out to be true.

I get my news not from TV or, god help me, the Internet but from real, made-from-paper, relatively respected newspapers.

[Diplome]

Yes, I know it makes a good story on first glance..poor, abused Cabin Crew member, beaten to the point he just couldn't take it anymore...

Unfortunately facts are proving this guy may have been just an abusive fool and his initial excuse for his outrageous behavior may be false.


In fact, Slater’s legal aide attorney, Howard Turman, told the media on Thursday Slater actually suffered the injury in Pittsburgh, before Flight 1052 even took off.


While I will agree that we all, regardless of our occupations, have at times thought "It would be amazing if I did this rather than listen to this "*!$" no Cabin Crew member should be expressing anything more than just "ewwww".

Mr. Slater may now, after sobering up, wish to have his wings back, but God help any passengers that were subjected to flying with him.

Time for a career change.

[west lakes]

Serious subject in a lot of ways, this seems to be a Japanese news report and reconstruction

QBvakgglAPM

[newfieboy]

Thank goodnes Im rotary wing, west lakes, that reconstruction is too funny, love the bit where he pops the beer on the ramp.... rest of my crew still rolling on floor LOL:ok:

[west lakes]

I was sent the link by a member of British CC.
Note the aircraft type depicted!

[Vld1977]

I believe the problem is that some passengers think that by purchasing an airline ticket they are purchasing the right to do as they please. Little by little, in aviation customer service, your patience runs out. In my case, I limit myself to a few sarcastic comebacks, or simply enforcing my authority to remember the passenger that they are breaching safety or security rules. If my personal circumstances and psychological state were altered by important personal life concerns, like this guy seemed to have, I don´t know if I could react in another, more drastic way. The problem is, employers don´t recognise personal life. For most of them, you only exist while at work, and work is all you do as far as they're concerned. If I need time off for anything related to personal problems, it'll cost me money, for sure.

But don´t try to condone all behaviour by passengers, please. You wouldn´t loose sight of your suitcase on the street, or in a shopping centre, or at the hospital. That would be a very stupid thing to do, as there are pickpockets and thieves everywhere. But come to an airport, and as soon as they hear the announcement to not leave luggage unatended, many passengers feel the anavoidable impulse of leaving their cases on the floor and start wandering around talking on their mobile phones, as if it was to show off that they do as they please. If you remind them that they have to keep their luggage with them at all times, they ignore you or sometimes even abuse you. Once I had half terminal 2 at LHR evacuated for that reason, and the passenger made a complaint about me because he had told me he was only going to the shop, and why didn´t I trust him? Did he look like a terrorist? Fortunately, the police didn´t let him fly and took him away for questioning (apparently, for running away and leaving a 'suspicious package unnatended'). Of course he wasn't a terrorist (he would have been an extremely incompetent terrorist!), but security rules are there for all of us to comply with. This gentleman wouldn´t do the same thing anywhere else, but in an airport, of all places, where even 4 year old kids know that you don't have to leave your bags unnatended, this man decided to do it. He could have simply carried the wheelie bag with him to the shop when I repeatedly told him, citing the rules, but he decided to make clear that he was special, he was a passenger, and he could do whatever he wanted.

My company, though, kind of told me off slightly, as check-in had been interrupted and some flights were delayed. Something like some people have said about Slater's actions, "it was a bit over the top, calling security, wasn't it?" "You should have waited for a few minutes to see if he really came back from the shop", etc. This is what some, and I repeat, SOME, passengers take advantage of. The companies constant disregard for safety in the name of avoiding bad publicity or delaying a flight. And it has to stop.

[L'aviateur]

"Vld1977" I understand that you followed protocol, and took the most security conscious method. However, what did you achieve from the way you handled that situation? Could you have handled it better, and educated the passenger at the same time?

Unfortunately for many of the infrequent passengers, travelling is a highly emotional and stressful time. They are exposed to an environment that they are not familiar with, they hand over control to someone else, they are following what may seem like an endless list of rules, and I can see how it can become very easily confusing and disorientating.
Emotions may be high because people are leaving family behind, or heading to a funeral etc, Overseas workers may be heading to a new job in unfamiliar surroundings where they could be working away for years at a time. They may all have something preoccupying their minds. You can have people who don't speak English and may have been in a shanty town somewhere remote a few days earlier and may be just overwhelmed.
It's very easy to lose sight of the fact that whilst you have many frequent travellers who bring their own problems, you have a lot of people who travelling is a very stressful means to and ends, and thus it becomes easy to understand that they do strange things.

Some flights, in some countries, it seems the norm for everyone to get up and open the overhead lockers whilst taxying to the stand, and the CC don't take any action. If English is not their first language (which can be expected for people travelling/transitting), then they may be not understand what is wrong with the situation.

[Basil]

CCTV vid of slide blowing: I'll leave further comment to our jokers.

BBC News - CCTV 'shows air steward's emergency exit' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10973733)

[MIDLGW]

CCTV vid of slide blowing: I'll leave further comment to our jokers.

BBC News - CCTV 'shows air steward's emergency exit' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10973733)


Erm, hang on a minute here. If this is the CCTV of the slide blowing, why did the guy blow the slide instead of walking up the airbridge? Wasn't the airbridge drama enough?
The catering truck is attached, as is other ground equipment, so the chocks must be on (unless you're an AA777 in DFW:}). This whole thing is getting more and more odd.

[911slf]

Ref post #80, if the FA head was cut before the flight started, maybe he was for that reason unfit to fly. An apparently minor head injury could be more serious than it looks.

[etrang]

why did the guy blow the slide instead of walking up the airbridge? Wasn't the airbridge drama enough?

Good question. Some pax had already left the plane via the airbridge when he blew the slide.

[Vld1977]

L' Aviateur,

I understand your point of view and I sympathise with what you are saying, but after a number of years in the business, believe me, I can tell a disoriented passenger from a frequent traveller bloke who just wants to make a point. The main difference is that disoriented and unfamiliar passengers usually are confused about the rules and comply with them as soon as you tell them politely, no problems at all.

I can see that, obviously, the pax is just a childishly proud person who just wants to make clear that he wants me to consider him special and treat him as if he was a 'regular' celebrity. But, what if he was a DFT secret shopper testing my response to a breach of security regulations? I would have had my ID and my right to work at the airport removed. Rules are there to comply with them, even when we think of them as disproportionate. To be honest, I was concerned that it could have been a trial, as when the DFT tries to smuggle weapons through security, to check the quality of security procedures, but, nevertheless, a passenger who, despite reminding him of the regulations, INSISTS in leaving his bag unnatended at all costs (in an airport, of all places, a security sensitive building and also one infested by thiefs), is what, in the security training courses, is described as evident suspicious behaviour, and as such, even if I'm sure he is just being pedantic, my duty is to inform security.
It's like being between a rock and a hard place. Your company may have a go at you for delaying flights, but you could wind up in a much more serious situation for ignoring it, just because another know-all frequent traveller had to make a point and make clear that he is above the law. He carried the damned thing from home, and he is all inconvenienced by having to drag it twenty yards to the shop? :eek:

[Lotpax]

VLD1977

Although I am not challenging your account, the vast majority of frequent travellers don't make a habit of doing things like you describe, anymore than cabin crew tend to depart down the slide with a beer. It is simply too risky to get on the wrong side of the authorities.

L'Aviateur has made some good points in his/her post and asked the pertinent question, could you have handled the situation better?

Sometimes it is not what we say, but how we say it, that makes all the difference and there is a well known saying that "the best tool for dealing with difficult people is a mirror", since inter personal chemistry is a two way street.

It is always wise to remember in a service industry, those of us who provide a service are there because of the customers, who we may not always like, but whose money funds the system that pays us.

Like you, I am in a customer facing role and sometimes get very annoyed at the bs I have to deal with, but managing it with a smile is part of the job.

[Lancastrian]

As an observer to this thread may I add a point or two. I have every sympathy with cabin staff who are having to deal with such people for the duration of a flight. Equally, travellers who have no intention of causing any form of disruption also become frustrated with some of the antics. I do feel that much of such behaviour stems from alcohol. Returning from Mexico a boozed up couple had no scruples about their attempted sexual misconduct no matter that there where children and disgusted passengers adjacent to their seat. On another flight a young man sporting headphones and engrossed in the seemingly funny movie (Simpsons) was laughing so loudly he drowned out the noise of the engines...and....kept catching an elderly couple with arms and feet. The holiday charter gets quite a share,(or did when I last flew) popping to the WC,within a minute banging on the door with raised voices. Outside were two mid life painted females, sloshed and being quite rude to all and sundry. The list is endless. All of this makes for quite a tense and fractious journey for all concerned. This particular cabin staff had taken enough. From the passengers point of view...I no longer fly unless absolutely necessary. Was there a time when flying was a joy for all...YES....flying with British Eagle in a turboprop Brittania with seat and leg room. Due to engine problems we eventually landed at Singapore thirty six hours later! :ok:

[Lonewolf_50]

I had to spend my two days of during the next month in court as the pax sued us for whiplash and God knows what else, the judge was not impressed and gave him a large fine for deliberatley ignoreing a lawfull order.
Thank you for the explanation, and I am pleased the judge stuffed in in that fellow's eye.

Your tone considered, I appreciate your providing the Aircraft Commander's perspective.

Beyond that, I'll comment as I like, given the crap sandwich air travel has become in the past ten years. It sometimes takes an observation or a comment to evoke the response that leads to enlightenment or understanding.

@ Juud: thanks as well.

[Vld1977]

Lotpax, no, I don´t believe I couldn't have handled it better. Most of the time, you only need to politely remind pax of the regulations, and they comply immediately. I politely requested that this gentleman kept his luggage with him. He completely ignored me, and I followed him and asked him again, politely, to go back to his luggage, as, first, it could get stolen (an empty coffee shop table is not going to stop a thief), and second, that it was my duty to report unnatended luggage to security (which it is, and it gets drilled into our brains every day, especially back then, three weeks after a bunch of unnatended bags blew up three commuter trains in Madrid). The gentleman smiled and kept saying it was only for a minute, and off he went. I don´t mind that the shop is just across the hall. As I said, it could have been someone official trying to check my response.
I am extremely professional dealing with passengers, but everything has a limit. We once had a passenger disrupting the entire boarding because his seat had been changed. We told him that there had been an aircraft change and the config was different, so that seat didn´t exist, basically. It didn't matter to the passenger, even when we told him he would be compensated. He started to be extremely rude, and when all passengers were on board and the aircraft ready to go, he was still shouting abuse and demanding his original seat. What whould we have done? Call in the engineers and build a nice extra seat for him? After repeatedly been told that that wasn't possible and asking him to please get in the aircraft, as he was delaying the flight, he answered that he wouldn't go on board unless he had that seat, and that he was not getting inside because he had two bags checked in and he knew we would wait in order to avoid a delay while getting his bags off. After a few minutes, the dispatcher tore his boarding pass in two, as the captain had have enough and instructed her to close the door and start offloading the bags, to which the passenger reacted by accepting his new seat and the compensation, quite rudely. The captain didn't accept him for the flight and left him behind, as he had already caused a delay, took the bags off and the aircraft departed 20 minutes later.

Now, what is the correct way of dealing with abusive passengers with totally unreasonable demands, even if it´s not their fault? What should this captain have done, considering the passenger would only accept a solution that was totally impossible, didn't listen to explanations, prevented the gate team leader from organising the boarding and thus slowing it considerably, and was outright abusive? Keep talking to him for 20 more minutes? Cancel the flight and request an aircraft change?

Some times you cannot be as proffessional as you would like, and all of this was done with courtesy and understanding. The passenger was looking for an upgrade, that was obvious as well, but sorry, the aircraft is full and we are not going to downgrade someone who has paid for a ticket in business just because you cannot have an aisle in the bulkhead, especially when you didn't even pay for it.

[Diplome]

Do I detect a bit of thread wandering here?

Isn't the issue really that Mr. SkyBlue is a putz, and though he took a rather dramatic circus ride in his exit he's still rather a huge failure. Nothing for either Cabin Crew or passengers to be celebrating.

All of the side issues being presented have nothing to do with this Cabin Crew failure's actions. Good on him for not only ruining his future but diminishing the view of Cabin Crew in their passengers' view.

Heaven's. Bad enough we have to look at fellow passengers to see if they are trying to light their shoes on fire, now we are supposed to worry about Cabin Crew having snit fits at 30,000. Yeah, keep cheering this drama queen while you insist on being called professionals.

As SLF this is just scary.