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SoundBarrier
5th Aug 2010, 23:25
Refugees, disputes of land ownership, weaker and stronger currencies and more are problems created by these imaginary lines we have created around the world. What would happen if we disestablished all countries and created a singe country, we could call it 'World'.

What problems would be have performing this task?
If we managed to rid all borders overnight, what would see happening globally, would we see mass movements of poorer countries to the wealthy?
Would there be a growing wealth gap between the rich and poor?
How would some sort of order be brought to this new existence?

The resultant answers may drive me to apply for the role of 'King of the World".

SoundBarrier
5th Aug 2010, 23:51
OK so that is a prerequisite then...some countries will need to started planned culling! :P

con-pilot
6th Aug 2010, 00:12
Hang around the US/Mexican Border and you'll think that there is no border already. :p

SoulManBand
6th Aug 2010, 00:34
One just has to look at Europe. For all practical purposes there are no borders. Is that what we want for the rest of the world?

larssnowpharter
6th Aug 2010, 00:34
Is it true that the cannucks are building a fence to keep economic migrants from the USA out? :p

Captain Dart
6th Aug 2010, 00:35
It may take two hundred years or five hundred, but one day everyone on this planet is going to look like Tiger Woods.

Bandoleer
6th Aug 2010, 00:39
OK so that is a prerequisite then...some countries will need to started planned culling!


It would seem that some very close to us have taken the "think globally, act locally" part of your statement to heart. Odd that this is a commercial site.

rh200
6th Aug 2010, 00:42
I think Hitler wanted to do that, come to think of it, its the Islamic dream as well. Was probally a Christian one once to.

It'll never happen without a lot of blood on the floor. How would "World" be governed, who's values. Its far to complicated task to be realistic possibility. Europe is only a mild example that plods along from one crisis to another, It will be a wonder if it survives the next few decades.

G-CPTN
6th Aug 2010, 00:47
How would "World" be governed,
Seems only fair that the longest-serving ruler should take precedence - either that or hold an election and whoever gets the most votes wins . . .

SoulManBand
6th Aug 2010, 00:53
So then Obama will be the King of the World, at least according to world's sentiment 2 years ago...

glad rag
6th Aug 2010, 01:28
For all practical purposes there are no borders.

Yeah so you say you don't need a passport to move about B.S.!!

rh200
6th Aug 2010, 01:31
Seems only fair that the longest-serving ruler should take precedence - either that or hold an election and whoever gets the most votes wins . . .

Thats an interesting thought experiment, I wonder what the new ruling party would look like. I see shades of the situation in Iraqi, where you try and Align against cultural grounds. Then what happens when a large bloc decides well we don't want to live under those values.

pigboat
6th Aug 2010, 02:16
"World" would need an anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA).
The people would sit in a circle to sing it. :p

SoulManBand
6th Aug 2010, 02:16
Yeah so you say you don't need a passport to move about B.S.!!

I've driven from France into Germany and into Italy without stopping for any border control. Also Belgium. No passport or any ID needed.

SoulManBand
6th Aug 2010, 02:18
"World" would need an anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA).
It would be sung sitting in a circle. :p

We already have "The Internationale", that should do.

sisemen
6th Aug 2010, 02:35
No borders? The poor and feckless instantly migrate to a country they believe is nirvana and, in the process, make that country resemble the one they left. Then move on and repeat the process until the whole world is ungovernable, poor, lacking in resources, and overburdened with population which will not have any kind of social back-up to rescue the genuine needy.

Hate to say it but the likes of Africa, SE Asia, Eastern Europe and South America will have to go through an awful lot of pain before they stabilise. And somewhere, the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for.

It's funny, but up until about the start of the 20th Century the world effectively didn't have borders. The world did, however, have colonialism where the poor and needy were kept at a reasonable level by altruistic home countries. Just take Zimbabwe as one example!

larssnowpharter
6th Aug 2010, 03:09
The poor and feckless instantly migrate to a country they believe is nirvana and, in the process, make that country resemble the one they left. Then move on and repeat the process until the whole world is ungovernable, poor, lacking in resources, and overburdened with population which will not have any kind of social back-up to rescue the genuine needy.

Like happened to the US of A?

Matari
6th Aug 2010, 04:56
Like happened to the US of A?

Well, up till now our immigrants have been a source of our great strength and vitality. Assimilated and happy to leave their oppression behind, immigrants quickly (within one or two generations) became as American as the guy next door. Economic growth, upward mobility, unlimited opportunity, limited government...all contributed to the fantastic mosaic.

The current invasion of the southern borders brings fears of exactly what siseman wrote. And we now have a government that promotes sloth over self-reliance, no growth, government dependence, trade protection and all the other failed policies of the past. The good thing is most Americans won't stand for it.

Ixixly
6th Aug 2010, 05:04
I don't think you'd ever really get rid of "Countries" as such, they are necessary, we need some form of borders in the world for various reasons, its an integral part to almost every culture.

I think the idea of a Central Earth Government though is definitely something that would bring the world closer together, sort of like the UN...but with balls and with an elected Earth President. It would take many years of sorting out of the laws and constitution so that they could apply to every country and then many more years of slowly introducing those laws and constitution under a CEG (Central Earth Government) banner. But in the end I believe that such a way of ruling will only really be feasible once we start looking towards colonising other planets as our current mindset just doesn't really allow for it, we still all feel too far apart, colonising other planets would put things into perspective a bit better and allow for such thinking to finally occur.

Matari
6th Aug 2010, 05:07
I think the idea of a Central Earth Government though is definitely something that would bring the world closer together, sort of like the UN

One of the reasons I celebrate "Independence Day" every year.

Captain Stable
6th Aug 2010, 05:08
OK so that is a prerequisite then...some countries will need to started planned culling!No need - the USA is doing it already - to Afghan civilians, Iraqi civilians, their allies in combat... :}

Matari
6th Aug 2010, 05:14
Captain Stable:

No need - the USA is doing it already - to Afghan civilians, Iraqi civilians, their allies in combat.

Not even worthy of an ironic chuckle.

You'll find that the vast, vast majority of civilian deaths in Iraq and Afganistan have been perpetrated by fellow Muslims. And as for allied deaths...somehow you never hear our British friends mention the thousands of lives saved by brave coalition soldiers, nurses, medics, corpsmen and pilots.

Captain Stable
6th Aug 2010, 05:22
Blimey - they do all that as well as shoot their allies?

Well bless! They must be really nice people - and there I was thinking they were just doing the job they were paid for...

Capetonian
6th Aug 2010, 07:37
I can think of few things worse. The world would become ungovernable, there would be no security, social order would break down. I know what we have now is far from perfect but this idea is horrendous.

Perhaps an analogy to consider would be to consider how life would be if we had no doors (other than to keep the elements at bay) on our homes, which of course in reality would cease to be ours, no safes or banks to keep our valuables and assets, and cars which could just be driven away.

Even Lenin, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Mao Tse Tung and those other well-intentioned but deluded gentlemen didn't go this far.

ThreadBaron
6th Aug 2010, 07:55
There will be a borderless world about the same time the promised paperless office kicks in!

RJM
6th Aug 2010, 08:10
How boring it would be. I put those 'One World Government' proponents in the same bin as temperance societies, Plymouth Brethren and crusading vegans.

In their perfect worlds, we'd all slowly die of boredom.

I like difference: I like tribes, countries and borders, fortified and open.

Vive la difference!

Friction is the cost of variety, and is cheap at the price.

rh200
6th Aug 2010, 08:19
ThreadBaron

There will be a borderless world about the same time the promised paperless office kicks in!

:D:DNever has a truer thing been said:ok:

tony draper
6th Aug 2010, 08:40
I suspect if such a thing came about(God forbid) 95% of it would be empty and the entire population would be trying to squeeze into the 5%. that is worth living in ie the west.
:rolleyes:

Rollingthunder
6th Aug 2010, 08:55
Yeps, let's invite all those who ruined their country or did'nt work to help it be successful to come over here and repeat... welcome you useless sobs

Wod
6th Aug 2010, 09:12
When the Balkans were convulsing, some observer said "History is about the movement of people".

In the broad sweep, I think that is about right.

People move in numbers because of famine and war.

So if we are looking for a more or less homogeonous world we need to manage conflicts and share the wealth.

Easy really!

I also believe that fertility rates are ultimately related to wealth and health experience.

So called peasants breed prolifically because infant mortality is high and there is no-one but family to look after the elderly.

So sharing the wealth is the go folks.

Not my wealth, you understand, but yours.:ok:

tony draper
6th Aug 2010, 09:21
Movement of people was fine when the population stood a less than a billion (and that is not very long ago)at the thick end of seven billion forget it, the bloody place is full,the only form of birth control that has any hope of success now involves E=Mc2 and a plutonium sphere.
:)

Shack37
6th Aug 2010, 10:10
A borderless world would be a bad thing. How would you keep the aliens out?:rolleyes:

Fitter2
6th Aug 2010, 10:21
Countries' borders are only one example of a scale phenomenon.

Do you suppose your neighbour (or some vagrant from 100 miles away) has a reasonable right to come and park in your garden (if you have one) and eat your vegetables (if you grow your own)?

Saintsman
6th Aug 2010, 10:48
What would happen if we disestablished all countries and created a singe country

The World Cup and the Olympics would be pretty boring.

tony draper
6th Aug 2010, 11:11
The Olypics are already boring.:)

Smeagol
6th Aug 2010, 11:13
TheWorld Cup was incredibly boring.

Does that mean.........................?

OFSO
6th Aug 2010, 11:33
Ever since the Scheningen Treaty (I think I spelled that correctly) it has been illegal (under EU law, whatever that is) to 'control' travellers at the local border crossing between Spain and France (La Jonquera).

Result is, money launderers carrying cash heading north, Russian mafia transporting Rumanian prostitutes south into Spain (thousands of them, and yes I do mean thousands), people-smugglers transporting illegal immigrants north into France (again, thousands), truck-loads of cocaine heading north, ETA terrorists going either way carrying bombs and guns..... all have free unhindered progress across the border.

Ask me, or anyone else, if I think an open border is a good idea.

NO !

I'd happily put up with the minor inconvenience of showing my documents every month when I cross the border in exchange for getting rid of some of the loathsome scrotes with which we are now inflicted.

tony draper
6th Aug 2010, 11:50
Yup the West should build wall around their countries Harry Houdini could not get through otherwise you are going to finish up with African style shanty towns on all your public spaces and the West reduced to the level of the third world,hopefully I wont be around when such times comes to pass but coming to pass they are.
No need to feel guilty,fate, Karma call it what you will dictated you were born where you were born and the rest were born where they were born, it is the fluffy guilt fest of the Western Liberal Democracies that will lead to their ruin.
:cool:

G-CPTN
6th Aug 2010, 11:58
the West should build wall around their countries
Yet it's interesting that the Wall built by the East Germans was to keep people in . . .

Capetonian
6th Aug 2010, 12:15
Precisely as OFSO has expressed it is the awful reality of a Europe - 25 countries or so - without borders. How much worse would a world without borders be.

I'm not sure if it's actually 'illegal' to check border crossers, as there are occasional checks, but it's very rare indeed. I'd also gladly put up with a few more minutes at the crossing in return for some, however limited, assurance that the free movement of the undesirables is hindered. I know there is the argument that they will always get through, but opening the borders makes it easier and encourages many who otherwise might not even try.

G-CPTN
6th Aug 2010, 12:19
UK Border Control monitors incoming but not outgoing, therefore there is no idea of how many have overstayed their visas. :ugh:

sprocky_ger
6th Aug 2010, 12:38
Yet it's interesting that the Wall built by the East Germans was to keep people in . . .
Technically correct. But "The Wall" itself was built around West Berlin. Official statement from the East: "to keep the Western imperialists out". :ugh:<- what a different use of that smiley :} We (living east but not in Berlin) used to say they built The Wall around the wrong part of Berlin. The Berlin people were not popular around the rest of East Germany. ;)

As long as we do not meet E.T.'s the world will not unite. Why should one give away his power? The truth is that after the wall came down many more countries started to exist through seperating from a huge one: USSR became Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, etc. Yugoslavia became many tiny countries latest example is Kosovo. The stupid thing is now that all want to be a part of EC. :rolleyes:

vulcanised
6th Aug 2010, 12:44
First, you would have to abolish all religions.

That's the end of that.

Capetonian
6th Aug 2010, 12:44
First, you would have to abolish all religions.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Now that would be the best thing for the entire planet.

corsair
6th Aug 2010, 12:58
A borderless world? Yes we had that once. Soon people were forced to build defences around their towns and villages to defend themselves against attacks from local and distant invaders or migrants. Rapidly certain people rose to power locally, formed alliances, set boundaries and fought neighbouring warlords. Tried to expand their territories by conquest, formed empires and drew borders. Finally fighting ruinous wars that nearly led to the extinction of mankind.

Do we really have to go through that again?

OFSO
6th Aug 2010, 13:06
I'm not sure if it's actually 'illegal' to check border crossers

To put it more precisely, it's forbidden to deprive cross-border travellers of their freedom to cross without hinderence.

The EU has just threatened France with millions (or something) of euros in fines because they have not demolished the police/immigration officials 'cabins' on the border crossings on the AP-7 motorway and N-II main road at La Jonquera. The cabins have been unstaffed since the Scheningen Treaty came into effect, but even standing empty they are viewed by Brussels as a threat to unrestricted crossings by all and sundry.

The Spanish Guardia Civil have over the past month set up control points on the above roads for the purpose of checking vehicles operated by North Africans resident in France, heading south into Spain, to catch car ferries from Spain to North Africa. A very large number (I won't say majority, but...) of these vehicles are incredibly overloaded, often there are twice the number of occupants for which there are seats, with large roofracks usually containing goods piled to twice the height of the car or van. Not unusual to see a mattress on the roof tied on with string, and on top of that a three piece suite and some dining chairs...I AM NOT JOKING. Plus huge hessian bags of clothing, bedspreads etc.

The operators of these vehicles are not being fined, but must dump their goods by the roadside (don't ask me what happens to excess pasengers) to return their vehicles to legality under Spanish vehicle law, before being allowed to continue. Needless to say, with cries of horror, wails of victimisation etc.

The control points MUST be established well inside Spain, and not at the border crossing. Why ? The EU forbids such controls at border crossings.

What a fiasco.

tony draper
6th Aug 2010, 13:09
Mankind is already heading for extinction, just that some of us would like to do so in comfort.:rolleyes:
There will be very little comfort for anyone if you open your borders.

rh200
6th Aug 2010, 13:17
corsair


Do we really have to go through that again?


And another good one!

The problem is most of the people who are serious about this, have absolutly no idea of human nature. The reasons for why we are what we are, and the reasons we have religion. To make changes in anything, you must understand the system, warts and all.

Lonewolf_50
6th Aug 2010, 13:21
When I look at how cocked up many governments are, large and small, I do a bit of back of the napkin math and scale that up to One World Government. I end up with the exponential capacity to screw up reaching the infinite, in terms of how the lives of the world's citizens (sorry, subjects) are buggered left, right, center, top bottom, and inside out.


One World Government is a very nice euphamism for tyranny.

For any of you who support this idea, who do you think would be in charge?

Altruists?

Enlightened priest kings?

Benevolent public servants?

Too many fairy stories running around as poisonous memes.

Capetonian
6th Aug 2010, 13:38
OFSO :

I drive across the La Jonquera crossing at least twice a year, and further down into Spain, and can vouch for you say and it's far from being a joke. Having nearly been wiped out by a vehicle such as you describe, I fully agree with the need for controls, preferably backed up by machine guns and police ready to use them.

On a recent trip, one of these vans full of camel***ggers on its way to Algeciras cut me up dangerously at the queue to the Peaje, or Peatje as you would call it, and nearly caused the fellow behind to go into the back of my car. So I got out to have a go at Ali Babar and the forty illegal immigrants, and he got out of his van with his keys and 'phone in his hand. I had the enormous pleasure of grabbing them hurling them as far as I could into the grassy scrub at the side of the road, thus immobilising him, hopefully for a long time. Naughty I know but highly satisfying and the Cloggies in the car behind were delighted and they and several others gave me a round of applause.

One of the (very few) things I like about the French is how they help in the making of these ludicrous laws in Brussels and then calmly stick two fingers up at them. I believe, for example, that most of the soft cheeses sold in France are illegal under EU regulations.

The sooner border controls are reintroduced, the better. I believe it will happen.

rgbrock1
6th Aug 2010, 13:53
A borderless world? No thanks. I'm quite happy within the confines of my own country.

And I'm sure Al-Qaeda would love a borderless world as well. Think of all the hapless targets.

Davaar
6th Aug 2010, 14:12
I think Hitler wanted to do that

Not quite. So far as he did control it, though, it would have tolerated the existence of no Jews, not so many Slavs, and the Obama family would not have been upwardly mobile. The in-group would have had the opportunity of education and the out-group would have been kept in near-slavery.

RJM
6th Aug 2010, 15:11
Napoleon was your man for one world - or one Europe at least.

Don't you need to carry ID (not necessarily a passport) at all times in both France and Spain, notwithstanding their both being in the EU?

ATNotts
6th Aug 2010, 18:08
RJM

I would have thought it was common sense to carry ID at all times if travelling in a foreign country.

As for a borderless Europe, travelling across the EU Schengen borders is hassle and delay free. Shame that when you arrive at the UK border it's getting like a cross between US immigaration and a former Iron Curtain country.

Give me Schengen for the UK and the sooner the better! Shame I'm whistling in the wind because as the Daily Mail and Murdoch don't want it, it'll never happen (at least not in my lifetime).

Capetonian
6th Aug 2010, 18:33
As for a borderless Europe, travelling across the EU Schengen borders is hassle and delay free. Shame that when you arrive at the UK border it's getting like a cross between US immigaration and a former Iron Curtain country.

Give me Schengen for the UK and the sooner the better!

So I take it you are in favour of further uncontrolled immigration, free movement of criminals, traffickers, drug dealers, and the detritus of the world into the UK. Read OFSO's posting at 1033 today. Is that what you want for the UK? I think what so many altruistic do-gooder 'human rights' people don't realise is that once these people enter the Schengen zone via the countries whose border patrols are poor, such as Italy, Greece, and Spain, they have complete freedom of movement. It is only a matter of time before the Schengen zone will be expanded and it will then have borders with Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Belarus, etc. Are you looking forward to that? If you are I then I think a reality check is needed.

When I enter the UK, I hate standing in a queue being pushed and jostled, and wasting time. The alternative, which is no border control, is worse.

flying lid
6th Aug 2010, 18:36
A borderless world would result in abolition of national airlines - to be replaced by one hyper-giant lo cost airline

RYAN AIR INTERNATIONAL

Just think, 9 billion chocolate coloured equal ethnic low wage customers.
no need for first or business class.

The list of "extras" is endless

All standing, of course (this is included in price), Probably get 2000 on a A380. Pay extra (or not) for food, drink, pressurised air, toilets, washbasins, soap, paper towels, arse wipe, air conditioning, qualified pilot (one only per plane), in flight entertainment. Charge for use of slides & lifebelts in emergency (cash only at the door - sorry, the ONE cabin crew manning the exit till would be to busy to take cards).

Sound daft ? - Unfortunately like it or lump it, thats where globalisation will probably take us.

Lid

Pugilistic Animus
6th Aug 2010, 19:09
YouTube - &#x202a;John Lennon - "Give Peace A Chance"&#x202c;&lrm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeDocgPpGd4)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

tony draper
6th Aug 2010, 19:25
Yer, from the same John Lennon who advocated we all just stay in bed and grow our hair? :rolleyes:

OFSO
6th Aug 2010, 20:15
I would have thought it was common sense to carry ID at all times if travelling in a foreign country.

It is compulsory just about everywhere in the EU. Germany, for example. Even picking up my prepaid concert tickets last week here in Spain, showing the credit card I'd used for the on-line purchase wasn't sufficient and I had to show my residencia - which expired three years ago but was accepted.

Oh what a world of idiots we are become. Time for a Fresh Start, I think. Next time the aliens come they might give cats higher intelligence, as it didn't work with primates. Cats are prettier anyway.

con-pilot
6th Aug 2010, 21:01
First, you would have to abolish all religions.


That's it in a nutshell, we must rid mankind of all and any religion. I don't think that will ever happen. Maybe in another 2,000 years, if man is still around, maybe.

Or, if we get taken over by all powerful aliens from a different part of outer space.

Actually in my opinion, the latter is more likely to happen than the former. :p

larssnowpharter
7th Aug 2010, 01:40
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G-CPTN
7th Aug 2010, 01:50
I was a great believer in the 'Melting Pot' concept introduced by that song (round about the time I went to see Hair - no, that was earlier ISTR).

Whatever happened?

Then there was:-
tcL1TI5wsTY

BlueWolf
7th Aug 2010, 07:29
Foolish humans. There has been a functional world Government since the early days of WW2. The myth of nation states and their borders suits it very well.

Cacophonix
7th Aug 2010, 07:39
The world has no borders just the human mind!

Metro man
7th Aug 2010, 08:05
If we lost all borders they would soon have to come back. People of the same colour, speaking the same language would want to associate with each other.

Throw in similar customs and religions and people divide further. Some groups would work hard and become wealthy, they wouldn't want to share with non contributors. Some groups would find natural resources where they lived.

The groups would fight among themselves. Eventually they would divide up and you'd have countries and borders all over again.

Cacophonix
7th Aug 2010, 09:53
I really miss that bookstore in the UK.

Gas Bags
7th Aug 2010, 10:10
I regret not travelling to the UK 20 years ago when I had the chance. Now I fear I cant see the real thing and have no inclination to ever go there!!!!

GB

Lon More
7th Aug 2010, 10:31
I'm surprised there's been no mention of the New World Order or Bilderberg, or has that been censored by those nice men in black who've just rung the door......

flying lid
7th Aug 2010, 18:10
Gas Bags wrote

I regret not travelling to the UK 20 years ago when I had the chance. Now I fear I cant see the real thing and have no inclination to ever go there!!!!

Depends what you want to see. Big citys & towns (London, Manchester etc) have changed immensely in last 20 years, not for the better either. Get out into the countryside, especially up north, and things have not changed mutch. North Norfolk could be starred in a remake of the film "The land that time forgot".

I've just had an enjoyable week's break in Whitby, Yorkshire. Not a lot of change there, indeed they have brought steam trains back to the town !! Mind you it was a bugger at border control passing back into Lancashire from Yorkshire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other way round for me, I've never been to Ozz, hope to get there one day.

Lid

V2-OMG!
8th Aug 2010, 03:57
Is it true that the cannucks are building a fence to keep economic migrants from the USA out?

Naaah. The Canadians just erected giant fans all along the border. They give them a blast of that Arctic cold front every once in awhile - just to remind 'em that a favourable "job climate" and "Canadian climate" are not one and the same.

Works everytime.