CX Huge Profit $6,840 (only interim)

[crewsunite]

Only an interim: huge $6,840m

Staff get addvance 14day profit share end Aug.

A350 (30) B777 (6more) would have expected more aircraft.

:ok:

[saviboy]

i suppose the 350 deliveries won t happen before a while. and probably just for replacement?
if this is true, would this order affect anything in terms of DEFO hiring?
thanks

[Oval3Holer]

For those who chose not to take SLS, you may be categorized as employees who, in the opinion of Cathay Pacific, have failed to make sufficient contribution and support to the Airlines’ success and therefore may be considered not to be included for the interim profit share ex-gratia payment.

[crewsunite]

Yes mostly for replacement.

From now until 2015 there are 30 aircraft arriving, but also 29 departing (Mostly leases & freighters moving to Air China ending):}

The lastest order (30+6=36) is due in 2016-2019.

Thus in the next nine years only a net gain of (1+36) 37 aircraft.
4.1 Aircraft per year. A growth rate of 4.1/153 = 2.7%

Not very good considering our Market & Balance sheet.
Not great for promotions either! sorry 18+yrs to CMD despite profits.:ugh:

Just look at Emirates > 15% growth per year for the next 10years.:8
May be worth considering if their pay is increased.

[Flap10]

Oval,

Not sure why you're trying to stir the pot, but not paying the profit share to those who did not participate in sls would be deemed as discriminatory and grounds for legal action.

Firstly it was stated clearly that there would be no penalties in choosing not to participate as it was purely voluntary. Secondly you can't work more than those who participated and be seen as not contributing to the airline's success.

[Humber10]

Oval is just pointing out part of the policy on profit share, if you click on the link on the company website, you can read it for yourself.
2 weeks is better than a slap in the face, but now watch them drag their heels with pay negotiations :}

[Lowkoon]

Don't count all the tails fellas, they are 'Group' aircraft remember? :ok:

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

At this point, let me explain our approach towards salaries and profit share. Put simply, the market determines salaries, and staff are rewarded for good Company performance through the profit-sharing scheme. We are in a very cyclical business: there will be always be good times and bad times, following each other in turn as markets boom and bust. When the Company is performing well, it’s only right that our hard-working staff should share some of the rewards.

But it would be a mistake to set our salaries on the assumption that today’s great results were guaranteed for the future. When today’s up-cycle becomes tomorrow’s down-cycle, doing that would turn a slump into a crisis. Too many airlines have made that mistake - you don’t need me to tell you who they are.


A veiled but noticable little "hint" from Tyler-the-Liar that he is not interested in any form of salary negotiations.

So "the team" that worked so hard to make this handsome profit happen are once again screwed over, while the fat cats laugh all the way to the bank, with their massive bonusses in their clutches...

Now is the time for CONTRACT COMPLIANCE, followed up by INDUSTRIAL ACTION until salary increase demands are met.

Different team, different dream:eek:

[joebanana]

Just to put this figure into numbers we can understand.

6840 million HKD is 880 million US$ or almost ONE BILLION US$ and that is only for 6 months.

Put another way we made US$ 3348 every minute. :eek:

According to the profit and loss table, staff costs were 6190 million HK$, ie total staff costs for the whole airline was less than the profit generated. A not unreasonable rise of 10%, considering the lack of any increases in the best part of a decade, FOR ALL STAFF would still have left the company with a profit of 6221 million HK$ or 801 million US$.

It is simply inconceivable, despite Tyler's clumsy warnings about costs, that we should be denied a significant double digit pay rise this year.

[The Wraith]

Oh, we will be denied it, no doubt about that at all. But between the AOA and a group of pilots who couldn't unite if their lives depended on it, nothing will be done about it. Sad but true.
:ugh:

[stillalbatross]

Yes mostly for replacement.

From now until 2015 there are 30 aircraft arriving, but also 29 departing (Mostly leases & freighters moving to Air China ending)

The lastest order (30+6=36) is due in 2016-2019.

Thus in the next nine years only a net gain of (1+36) 37 aircraft.
4.1 Aircraft per year. A growth rate of 4.1/153 = 2.7%

Not very good considering our Market & Balance sheet.
Not great for promotions either! sorry 18+yrs to CMD despite profits.

Just look at Emirates > 15% growth per year for the next 10years.
May be worth considering if their pay is increased.


So for the next 5 years the entire fleet only grows by one aircraft?

[Sand Man]

"The amount of the Payment will be offset against any annual profit share that may be awarded under the Policy by April next year."

What exactly does this mean? Assuming profit share equals 30 days next April and we get 14 days in August what will CX actually pay us in April?

There are two possibilities for the final payment in April that I can see:

1. 30 days (i.e. 1 month) at your current pay increment as of April minus the dollar amount paid in August.

2. 30 days - 14 days (advanced payment) at your current pay increment as of April.

Either way it probably will not make any difference to about half of us, but for those that have a pay increment or the luck few that will get an upgrade between June and April will have less money in their pockets if the second option is used to calculate the final payment. From the quote above it does not clearly define what "amount of the Payment" means. Does it mean, the days or dollars?

Would be worth keeping an eye on next year or be worth the AOA getting some sort of clarification.

[Numero Crunchero]

sand man,
profit share is based on your Dec salary. So I would expect you would be paid X days of your Dec salary amount less the advanced amount of 14 days of your Jun 2010 salary. So if your Dec salary was exactly double your Jun salary and say X=28 days, you would get a further 21 days of salary in April 2011 since 14 days of June 2010 salary = 7 days of Dec 2010 salary.

clear as mud?

[Numero Crunchero]

crewsunite,
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I can tell you this airline does not order planes to cover the next 10 years without variation. Several years ago I did go through the painful process of looking through every annual report and I can tell you that the planned 10 year growth rate is always below the actual 10 year growth rate.
Don't take my word for it. Download the last 10 years or so of reports and see what was planned for the next 10 years in any given year and you will see it was below the actual amount achieved.

The long term growth rate has been around 6-7% - but that has varied from 0% to over 10% in 1-2 year blocks. So I would say by Dec 2020 we will have around 250 a/c.

[Pomerian]

Sand Man,
your question is being answer in the FAQ of the Advance Profit Share

5. I expect to be promoted before the end of the year. If part of the profit share is paid now when I am earning a lower salary, will I lose money compared to having it all paid at year end at my new salary level?

Subject to the public announcement of the Airlines’ audited consolidated annual results, the total amount of annual profit share for 2010 will be calculated according to the formula as stipulated in the Profit Sharing Scheme Policy. Therefore, employees who are eligible for annual profit share will have their eligible amount calculated in full and the Payment they receive in August will be offset. As a result, the total payment will be made in accordance with the annual profit share formula.

[Cider30]

Numero you can probably answer this,

How will this advance profit share impact the annual result and therefore also the total profit share received next year.

If the total staff cost is 6190 mill HKD, 14 days advance profit share would be 238.076.923 HKD. I assume this will affect the total profit for the year, i.e. the advance profit share is in the books for 2010. If the 238 mill HKD was not paid out and added to the full year result how would that impact the total profit share paid for the year.

I am happy to get some profit share now, but I think having it all paid in March 2011 would actually be better than having it paid some now and some later.

Cider30

[Oval3Holer]

Flap 10,

Isn't PPRuNe the PLACE to stir the pot?

Read the policy for the ex-gratia payment on the CX website for yourself and see: if you have been deemed to not have been part of the team who helped CX in the hard times, you can be deemed to not be eligible for this EX-GRATIA payment!

Discriminatory? Sure it is! But, I betcha it's legal!

I'm glad I took SLS!

[superfrozo]

I'm glad I took SLS!

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. Oval3Holer, you must be so proud.

After this INTERIM profit, If you can't see that the act of being "coerced" into taking SLS was a farce, then I weep for the future.
:rolleyes:

[Flap10]

Read the policy for the ex-gratia payment on the CX website for yourself and see: if you have been deemed to not have been part of the team who helped CX in the hard times, you can be deemed to not be eligible for this EX-GRATIA payment!



Yup it is the same policy in regards to the payment of 13 months, and guess what, I got that one already.


Discriminatory? Sure it is! But, I betcha it's legal!


Can't be discriminatory and legal at the same time. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I'm glad I took SLS!

Well what can I say to someone who puts two weeks of ex-gratia payment ahead of their moral values. I betcha you work on G days too. Read the thread titled "cheapest hoars at Cathay". :yuk::yuk:

Oh and BTW Oval, this is one of your previous posts, posted 18th of May


Who Still Has B*LLS?

Well, there it went... Care to now state what you have DONE or NOT?

My achievement: NO and NO (never a click for ME!)


You just answered yourself you lying sack of sh!t

[PanZa-Lead]

Unfortunately those of you that have had operations and been on sick leave will also be punished. No profit share for you. Only people that have been on annual leave or SLS will get it.

[The Management]

If it were up to some of us in Management, we would not give any pilots ex gratia payments. Especially those who chose not to participate in the SLS program and clearly some on these forums that state they will not help Crew Control when needed.
We feel the ground staff/cabin crews are our front line employees and only they should receive the ex gratia payments.

We have saved our profit distribution on the bases and will be looking to reduce salaries on most bases in the future. Most airline pilots in based areas have had their salaries reduced as much as 20-30% and that will be our target in the upcoming pay negotiations. Some of us in Management believe that this ex gratia payment not be given to based pilots as they are not entitled to a profit share scheme.

With Hong Kong base pilots, 14 days of ex gratia payment is just over a 4% pay increase and will not have any increase in salary payments. We believe this 4% is the needed increase for being based in Hong Kong this will cover our inflation figures. I hope you all appreciate it.

Us Managers deserve most of the payments, as we are the skill around the success of The CPG. Without us Managers, the Airline would wither away as Oasis did. Our Superior Management Skills deserve most of the bonuses.

To My Bonus
The Management

[Harbour Dweller]

Lowkoon,

Don't count all the tails fellas, they are 'Group' aircraft remember? :ok:

Read the update from Tyler again.

The letter of intent with Airbus relates to the purchase of 30 Rolls-Royce-powered Airbus A350-900 aircraft. The all-new A350 XWB ("Extra Wide Body") will form the backbone of Cathay Pacific's future mid-size wide-body fleet, with the 30 new acquisitions being delivered between 2016 and 2019.
The A350-900 variant is capable of flying over 8,000 nautical miles non-stop, which will enable Cathay Pacific to operate the aircraft across its route network, including on non-stop flights to Europe and North America. Two new-generation Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines will power the aircraft and the A350 XWB will enable Cathay Pacific to benefit from the lowest operating costs of any aircraft in its size category.
:ok::ok:

[Ace Man]

The A350-900 variant is capable of flying over 8,000 nautical miles non-stop, which will enable Cathay Pacific to operate the aircraft across its route network, including on non-stop flights to Europe and North America.


Except JNB - moving JNB'S dep slot to 730-8pm (where the temp is below 20deC year round) will help. Hell you could even leave the A343 on it then!

[Toe Knee Tiler]

Only an interim: huge $6,840m

Staff get advance 14day profit share end Aug.


Staff really get some more of their robbed 13th month,

[cxhk]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Cathay Pacific Group made a 1H profit of HK$6840million at a group profit margin of 16.5% (with airline operating profit margin of around 10.5%). Assuming the second half is as good as the first half of the year, we can expect similar profit margin and roughly doubt the total profit (minus the HAECO & HACTL sales). With the airline operating profit margin of 10.5% and a estimate total 2010 profit of HK$8630million [(6840-2165)x2], base on our new profit share scheme, the company will need to take out 10.5% of that profit and share that with their employee. So roughly, there will be HK$906million to share [8630x0.105]. So base on our six month salary expenditure of HK$6190 million, this give us a monthly company wide salary expenditure of HK$1031million. So this mean, we could expect a profit share at the end of the year that is roughly equivalent to just 1 month (26 days to be precise)? Please correct me if I am wrong with my assumption. So base on our profit sharing scheme, even if we make record profit, our profit share will not be more than a month? Is there something fundamentally wrong here?

Also, I estimate roughly that if the company book the 2 weeks of profit share as their salary expenditure for Aug, with my above assumption remains the same, the actual impact of the profit share at the end of the year will only be 1 day. In other words, we will receive 1 day less profit share in March next year when the company is giving us two weeks advance profit share in Aug. So is it worth it? I guess it depends, I rather have the money now, in-case things turn **** in the 2H of 2010.

[Numero Crunchero]

cider 30
I think they will pay it now but 'charge' it post profit. That is, they will say "2010 total profit was $10Billion of which $2.1B was share sales". Then in the distribution of that profit will be payout in dividends and payout in profit share. So I very much doubt they will charge the profit share as salary expense but if they did it would affect total profit share by about 5% so probably 1.5days less.

cxhk
if you read the AOA update of 13 July 2010 you should have some of your questions answered.

[crwjerk]

It's quite embarrassing actually. To have all this penny pinching and whingeing about doom and gloom for the past two years......... and then post an obviously record profit.........

[Oval3Holer]

Flap10:

How easily you get riled!

Quote:
Read the policy for the ex-gratia payment on the CX website for yourself and see: if you have been deemed to not have been part of the team who helped CX in the hard times, you can be deemed to not be eligible for this EX-GRATIA payment!
Yup it is the same policy in regards to the payment of 13 months, and guess what, I got that one already.

The thirteenth month is not ex-gratia, so I bet CX can be more discriminatory with this EX-GRATIA payment. Hope you get it. You'll need it to buy high-blood pressure medicine!

Quote:
Discriminatory? Sure it is! But, I betcha it's legal!
Can't be discriminatory and legal at the same time.
A company makes distinctions among employees all the time for promotion, etc. It doesn't mean those distinctions are illegal unless they are unfair and prejudicial. There's nothing unfair about rewarding employees who make a commitment over and above other employees.

Quote:
I'm glad I took SLS!
Well what can I say to someone who puts two weeks of ex-gratia payment ahead of their moral values. I betcha you work on G days too. Read the thread titled "cheapest hoars at Cathay".

My moral values have nothing ahead of them. Unfortunately, the majority of CX pilots put monetary value ahead of everything. That's why we all kept working (and many FO's took upgrades to captain, to replace those who were fired) after the 49ers were fired. It's obviously every man and woman for him and her self at CX. I have NEVER worked on a G day and NEVER WILL. That is a fact.

Oh and BTW Oval, this is one of your previous posts, posted 18th of May

Quote:
Who Still Has B*LLS?

Well, there it went... Care to now state what you have DONE or NOT?

My achievement: NO and NO (never a click for ME!)
You just answered yourself you lying sack of sh!t

I did NOT click, so I'm not a lying sack of sh!t It WAS NO and NO for me, too. Boy, you sure have a lot of aggression. Have you ever walked a picket line? I have.

Did YOU get one of THESE emails?
Dear Crew Member,

With regard to the recent SLS/COS initiative, the Fleet Offices need to ensure that everyone has understood the options and had the opportunity to make their selections before the deadline expired. There may be a variety of reasons why selections may not have registered, not least of which may have been due to technical difficulties. To date no record of your selection has been recorded which may or may not have been your intention. Can you please indicate either way whether you intended to respond or not. This will allow us to reopen the process for a limited period in order to give you a further opportunity to make a selection if you so choose. Many thanks.

Well, I did! I stuck out my b*lls and DIDN'T take SLS. That was the email I got. After trying to stand together with all those who "swore" they would not take SLS (they were really just spouting hot air on this and other forums), and then seeing that 93% TOOK SLS, I decided that I would NOT be a martyr, be singled out by CX, be denied an upgrade, and be targeted in PCs and line checks, and chose, a week later, to take SLS after being contacted and "reminded" by the fleet office. I don't know how long YOU'VE been around, but it's not good to try to prove a point at this company. CX will always win; one way or another.

It's appalling that we consider ourselves "unionized."

[Flap10]

:yuk:
Well, I did! I stuck out my b*lls and DIDN'T take SLS. That was the email I got. After trying to stand together with all those who "swore" they would not take SLS (they were really just spouting hot air on this and other forums), and then seeing that 93% TOOK SLS


Trying to hide behind numbers aint exactly sticking your b*lls out!!!!!! If you've been here as long as I have then you should have known that 90% + were going to sign up for it, that was no secret. I and others voted NO with the full knowledge that we would be the minority, that's sticking your b*lls out!!!

What I don't appreciate is you taking a pot shot at those that did not take SLS by cynically insinuating that they might not be eligible for the profit share. We didn't exactly have 20 g days for several months. Most of us were flying into overtime month after month, and I will be damned if we don't get our deserving slice.

You should at the very least be grateful that there were some that did what you couldn't do and said NO to management. You're coming across as if you would somehow take pleasure if the company withholds the payment to those who did not participate in SLS.

I wouldn't come here exclaiming to those that said NO that you are GLAD that you took SLS because it assures you of a measly 2 weeks extra pay, that is downright disrespectful. Maybe the pilot group is not properly unionized because of people with your sort of attitude. :yuk:

[Oval3Holer]

I and others voted NO with the full knowledge that we would be the minority, that's sticking your b*lls out!!!

Yes, that IS sticking your b*lls out, and I COMMEND YOU and the others for doing so, and sticking to it! If the "union" had more like you, maybe we could achieve something. I stuck my b*lls out, naively, from the day after my initial line check. It caused my promotion to be delayed and, in general, put a big target on my back for management. I can't live like that without the support of a strong pilot group willing to go to the line, if necessary. CX pilots are not that kind of group. Once again, I COMMEND YOU AND THE OTHERS WHO STOOD YOUR GROUND TO MAKE A POINT AND DID NOT TAKE SLS. Your b*lls are definitely bigger than mine! :D

What I don't appreciate is you taking a pot shot at those that did not take SLS by cynically insinuating that they might not be eligible for the profit share. We didn't exactly have 20 g days for several months. Most of us were flying into overtime month after month, and I will be damned if we don't get our deserving slice.

I was not trying to take a pot shot at anyone, but merely pointing out the way CX operates.

You should at the very least be grateful that there were some that did what you couldn't do and said NO to management. You're coming across as if you would somehow take pleasure if the company withholds the payment to those who did not participate in SLS.

I AM proud of and admire those who choose to make a point on an individual basis and I certainly would NOT take pleasure if any themt were to be denied this payment! I apologize to all of you who did NOT take SLS if I came across in this manner.

I used to try to make points with CX on an individual basis until I found out it doesn't work. The only way to make a point, as a member of a union, is for ALL the members to make the point together. Unfortunately, most of the members of our "union" would never work-to-rule or strike. The only benefit for you and others like you not taking SLS is personal satisfaction. I commend you. For me, being able to support my family takes precedence at CX. I tried the personal satisfaction/principle way when I first joined and found that, without the support of the rest of the pilot body, I was just sticking my head out of a foxhole in the middle of a shooting war.

I wouldn't come here exclaiming to those that said NO that you are GLAD that you took SLS because it assures you of a measly 2 weeks extra pay, that is downright disrespectful. Maybe the pilot group is not properly unionized because of people with your sort of attitude.

I'm glad I don't have a target on my back. I've found, as I said above, that individual actions based on personal convictions and ethics do nothing at CX except make the individual a target for management. If our "union" (meaning WE) would ALL have the b*lls to stand up for that in which we believe, I'd be leading the charge, so don't accuse ME of being the reason our pilot group is not properly unionized! I have the RIGHT attitude.

Have you ever read the ALPA Code of Ethics? I have. I keep a copy in my flight bag for others to read. I live by it, every word, to the limits I can at this company. Here it is:

ALPA CODE OF ETHICS

An Air Line Pilot will keep uppermost in his mind that the safety, comfort, and well-being of the passengers who entrust their lives to him are his first and greatest responsibility.

• He will never permit external pressures or personal desires to influence his judgment, nor will he knowingly do anything that could jeopardize flight safety.

• He will remember that an act of omission can be as hazardous as a deliberate act of commission, and he will not neglect any detail that contributes to the safety of his flight, or perform any operation in a negligent or careless manner.

• Consistent with flight safety, he will at all times operate his aircraft in a manner that will contribute to the comfort, peace of mind, and well-being of his passengers, instilling in them trust in him and the airline he represents.

• Once he has discharged his primary responsibility for the safety and comfort of his passengers, he will remember that they depend upon him to do all possible to deliver them to their destination at the scheduled time.

• If disaster should strike, he will take whatever action he deems necessary to protect the lives of his passengers and crew.

An Air Line Pilot will faithfully discharge the duty he owes the airline that employs him and whose salary makes possible his way of life.

• He will do all within his powers to operate his aircraft efficiently and on schedule in a manner that will not cause damage or unnecessary maintenance.

• He will respect the officers, directors, and supervisors of his airline, remembering that respect does not entail subservience.

• He will faithfully obey all lawful directives given by his supervisors, but will insist and, if necessary, refuse to obey any directives that, in his considered judgment, are not lawful or will adversely affect flight safety. He will remember that in the final analysis the responsibility for safe completion of the flight rests upon his shoulders.

• He will not knowingly falsify any log or record, nor will he condone such action by other crew members.

• He will remember that a full month’s salary demands a full and fair month’s work. On his days off, he will not engage in any occupation or activity that will diminish his efficiency or bring discredit to his profession.

• He will realize that he represents the airline to all who meet him and will at all times keep his personal appearance and conduct above reproach.

• He will give his airline, its officers, directors, and supervisors the full loyalty that is their due, and will refrain from speaking ill of them. If he feels it necessary to reveal and correct conditions that are not conducive to safe operations and harmonious relations, he will direct his criticism to the proper authorities within ALPA.

• He will hold his airline’s business secrets in confidence, and will take care that they are not improperly revealed.

An Air Line Pilot will accept the responsibilities as well as the rewards of command and will at all times so conduct himself both on duty and off as to instill and merit the confidence and respect of his crew, his fellow employees, and his associates within the profession.

• He will know and understand the duties of each member of his crew. If in command, he will be firm but fair, explicit yet tolerant of deviations that do not affect the safe and orderly completion of the flight. He will be efficient yet relaxed, so that the duties of the crew may be carried out in a harmonious manner.

• If in command, he will expect efficient performance of each crew member’s duties, yet he will overlook small discrepancies and refrain from unnecessary and destructive criticism, so that the crew member will retain his self-respect and cooperative attitude. A frank discussion of minor matters of technique and performance after the flight will create goodwill and a desire to be helpful, whereas sharp criticism and peremptory orders at the moment will result only in the breakdown of morale and an inefficient, halting performance of future duties.

• An Air Line Pilot will remember that his is a profession heavily dependent on training during regular operations and, if in command, will afford his flight crew members every reasonable opportunity, consistent with safety and efficiency, to learn and practice. He will endeavor to instill in his crew a sense of pride and responsibility. In making reports on the work and conduct of his crew members, he will avoid personal prejudices, make his reports factual and his criticisms constructive so that actions taken as a result of his reports will improve the knowledge and skill of his crew members, rather than bring discredit, endanger their livelihood, and threaten their standing in the profession.

• While in command, the Air Line Pilot will be mindful of the welfare of his crew. He will see to it that his crew are properly lodged and cared for, particularly during unusual operating conditions. When cancellations result in deadheading, he will ensure that proper arrangements are made for the transportation of his crew before he takes care of himself.

An Air Line Pilot will conduct his affairs with other members of the profession and with ALPA in such a manner as to bring credit to the profession and ALPA as well as to himself.

• He will not falsely or maliciously injure the professional reputation, prospects, or job security of another pilot, yet if he knows of professional incompetence or conduct detrimental to the profession or to ALPA, he will not shrink from revealing this to the proper authorities within ALPA, so that the weak member may be brought up to the standards demanded, or ALPA and the profession alike may be rid of one unworthy to share its rewards.

• He will conduct his affairs with ALPA and its members in accordance with the rules laid down in the Constitution and By-Laws of ALPA and with the policies and interpretations promulgated therefrom. Whenever possible, he will attend all meetings of ALPA open to him and will take an active part in its activities and in meetings of other groups calculated to improve air safety and the standing of the profession.

• An Air Line Pilot shall refrain from any action whereby, for his personal benefit or gain, he take advantage of the confidence reposed in him by his fellow members. If he is called upon to represent ALPA in any dispute, he will do so to the best of his ability, fairly and fearlessly, relying on the influence and power of ALPA to protect him.

• He will regard himself as a debtor to his profession and ALPA, and will dedicate himself to their advancement. He will cooperate in the upholding of the profession by exchanging information and experience with his fellow pilots and by actively contributing to the work of professional groups and the technical press.

An Air Line Pilot the honor of his profession is dear, and he will remember that his own character and conduct reflect honor or dishonor upon the profession.

• He will be a good citizen of his country, state, and community, taking an active part in their affairs, especially those dealing with the improvement of aviation facilities and the enhancement of air safety.

• He will conduct all his affairs in a manner that reflects credit on himself and his profession.

• He will remember that to his neighbors, friends, and acquaintances he represents both the profession and ALPA, and that his actions represent to them the conduct and character of all members of the profession and ALPA.

• He will realize that nothing more certainly fosters prejudices against and deprives the profession of its high public esteem and confidence than do breaches in the use of alcohol.

• He will not publish articles, give interviews, or permit his name to be used in any manner likely to bring discredit to another pilot, the airline industry, the profession, or ALPA.

• He will continue to keep abreast of aviation developments so that his skill and judgment, which heavily depend on such knowledge, may be of the highest order.

Having Endeavored to his utmost to faithfully fulfill the obligations of the ALPA Code of Ethics and Canons for the Guidance of Air Line Pilots, a pilot may consider himself worthy to be called…an AIRLINE PILOT.

[Air Profit]

....sorry, but having dealt with ALPA for many years, their 'charter' is a hypocritical reflection on their actual actions and morals. I would rather hold hands with Tony Tyler than have anything to do with ALPA.

ps. i'm not against organising and standing up for our collective rights and expectations....just don't want anything to do with ALPA.

[DessertRat]

Hey ovalAholer,

I didn't take SLS and I just checked my payslip and guess what?? Full profit share payment! Sorry to disappoint you there.

You said :"I'm glad I took SLS!"

Says it all really...you needn't have been so scared after all.