Hard Landings At KA

[And Then]

It's not me.

As fast as they can, they are putting Cadets next to me with a few hundred hours.

"Flying you to Beijing today, is Second Officer....."

[yokebearer]

And over at Cx I was flying with a 4 year SO the other day - still not suitable for upgrade despite having 4000 hrs with 1000 on a heavy jet as co-jo before joining CX......and senior to every single DEFO .....

[soskipper]

I flew with a skipper not long ago who did a bloodly firm landing @ TPE. Guess What?! It was an A scaler.:D Maybe he was a SO with a few hundred hours years ago too.

[Neptunus Rex]

No chance. All 'A' Scalers joined as FOs and would have had 3,000 hours minimum of good experience just to get an interview. Times change.

[Akali Dal]

How cute, always blame the copilot!

Me thinks once one accepts command, one takes full responsibility to ensure that the copilot make a decent landing.

[Mouwaa]

Neptunus,

3 or 4 years ago almost every B-Scale DESO had 3 or 4000 hours when we joined...and still SOs!

[And Then]

Are the Cathay pilots above trying to relate to what I am saying? How can you? DO they put Second Officers in the RHS at CX with a few hundred hours?

What is going on at KA is plane crazy. Low level Go Arounds, physical take overs below a hundred feet. That's my month so far. That's the month of a number of colleagues I've talked to.

Nice kids. However.Throw away the training rule books and double, triple their training in the simulator or as far back as ab intio. It will cost a fortune I know. Defeating the purpose of cadet pilots as First Officers.

[soskipper]

I heard some DEFOs were sacked during their initial training with KA, didnt they have over 3000hours with turbine time? Parpahs they should review their recruitment standards to make the skippers happier then. But wait a minute, I thought everyone has good and bad days?


Check this out! Seems like bad landings and lowlevel go arounds not only happen on the red tails? By the way, SOs dont get fly here right?:rolleyes:
YouTube - Cathay Pacific Boeing 777-300 Miss Approach - Go Around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm8ei7NQsMo)

[And Then]

The standard expected of a DEFO at KA and a Second Officer are entirely different. Despite doing the same job. I have a problem with this.

A Second Officer who undertakes the duties of a First Officer must be up to the same standard. KA is not a Flying School. It is an operation that requires a fully functioning, multi-crew flight deck. Not a highly political cost saving.

The standard of landings at KA has become professionally embarrassing.

[Capt Vertigo]

A Second Officer who undertakes the duties of a First Officer must be up to the same standard. KA is not a Flying School. It is an operation that requires a fully functioning, multi-crew flight deck. Not a highly political cost saving.


Very well said! :ok:
Refer to AHK ... they are the champions!!! :ugh:

Happy landings!

[soskipper]

Just simply offload the guy/s next time you get to fly with them. If anyone question you about it, the answer is very simple "Professionally Embarrassing".:ok:

[Loiter1]

The airlines are trying to do what most militaries do: but on the cheap. The miltary gets around the relative inexperience of their pilots with continous and extensive post wings training. The airlines don't want to make that kind of expensive investment so they fall back on their captains to keep the show on the road. In the end the captains become default check and trainers and the poor cadets become underconfident.

No one wins but the bean counters. I feel most sorry for the cadets as I can't imagine anything worse then going flying when in your gut you know that you haven't got the required experience to do the job comfortably.

[Neptunus Rex]

How very sad. The A320 is an absolute 'pussycat' to land smoothly. If a pilot can't hack that, he/she should not be flying.

[The Stunned Mullet]

The A320 is an absolute 'pussycat' to land smoothly. If a pilot can't hack that, he/she should not be flying.

I suspect a head will be rolling in KA today.....

[And Then]

Why would a head be rolling ?

[someflying]

the airline wanna save money for using cadets cos they spent TOO
much on the skipper and so if you want a better co pilot
take less salary , maybe they can give you more experience co pilot one day
or you can choose to work somewhere without low experience pilots.

[The Stunned Mullet]

And then,

perhaps because somebody did exactly as Neptunus said, then again this is after all a rumour network...

[sinkingship]

Hear SE had a tailstrike yesterday, returned to HK scheduled as a ZUH TRG flt .

[SlimShadey]

How very sad. The A320 is an absolute 'pussycat' to land smoothly. If a pilot can't hack that, he/she should not be flying.

And the A330 is supposed to be un-stallable...:ok:

Hear SE had a tailstrike yesterday, returned to HK scheduled as a ZUH TRG flt

Blame it on engineering, flt ctl or oleo rigging must be grossly out. Something like that cannot happen to The infallibles; at least the "cover up" team will ensure that. :=

[Mouwaa]

someflying,

you do not make a valid point at all. Why should the captain be paid less??? An airline is not a flying school.
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Go back to playing with your phone and playstation.

[Tembani]

EVA has been doing this for 20 years. In my previous airline, having to assume control from the FO was unheard of. In this neck of the woods, probably 10 times a month.

[trevfly]

51 "cadets" already interviewed, vetted and deemed suitable for ab initio training in Ozz. All to be employed locally, although not all locals :=

Unless KA have future expansion , other than picking up the occasional jalopy A330 from CX (as CX gain the A350s) I doubt there will be a need for over paid Ex pat F/Os.

Here's to our 14 days (ADVANCED) bonus, now you naughty cabin crew, please dont strike:E

[Flap 5]

Airlines worldwide are reducing costs as much as possible. Cathay and Dragon were both very much aware that pilots were clamouring for jobs and introduced the B scale back in 1993. Why pay more when pilots are desparate for jobs? Asked the accountants. It's hardly surprising that there would be an erosion of standards.

[Chingchung]

saving mon$y. :8 tight staff roster. :sad: shrinkle benefits. :eek: cheap crew. :{