young and jobless? what kind of future can you afford?

[dogmaster]

I know a few guys who start their pilot training 2-3 years ago when everybody said it was a good time to become a pilot, they finished last year.

They have no job, and still live with their parent's money.They have around 300-600 hours and they have no attention to do anything else outside of flying.
They try to log some hours on single engine plane.
They didn't want to go to university(they could, but they believed flying a jet was more fun), at 22-24, what can they do?
what kind of future they will have?

It is is not the first time I see young men coming out of flying schools and having nothing, why they don't want to learn something else? at least they will have a fall back ? how long parents are going to sustain them in their hobby with (maybe)no future?
don't you think it's better to have a normal profession before going to a flight school?

what's your opinion ?

[Ireland105]

Well I for one have no sympathy for them. They must have known what they were getting themselves into when they signed up. And I think the parents are even worse - supporting 22/23 year olds living at home and spending their money....talk about more money than sense. But maybe that was the whole problem from the beginning. Maybe the parents wanted them out of their hair for a few years so off abroad to flight school - out of sight out of mind ?

[dogmaster]

ireland05,

3-4 years ago, it was not so hard to get a job as flight instructor, pilot, ...
parents believed their son will go fly for an airline, if not for a corporate on charter jets, or become a flight instructor.(with 200h!!!), or Africa as a bush pilot.

parents usually don't know this domain very well. They think a pilot make lot of money (like 99% of people I know) and have a long and secure career.

parents I know are now pissed off , after all this money spent, (probably for nothing!...)

I tell to all young pilots, go to learn a profession before touching aviation.
example: chef, car mechanic, account, IT,University..., etc.

and keep flying as a hobby as long you are not fully a professional with a degree in your pocket! When things turn bad(lost of your medical by exemple), you have a plan B.

[v6g]

I know a few people like this in the UK in other walk of life. Young men pumped out of often private education with degrees, then just sit around for years doing nothing. One guy I know is 31 and has only had a job for 1.5 years in his entire life - he hasn't worked for over 3 years now - justs lives at home with mummy. Even that wasn't a professional-level job - just packing parcels for delivery. Frequently from a wealthy background. It all stems from bad parenting and an era of easy money. Not registered as unemployed since they're "too posh" for that and therefore don't show up in any official data.

I don't see it as a problem - it's their own future.

Oddly, it seems an entirely UK and male phenomenon.

Meanwhile, in China and India ...

[v6g]

oh, and another thing..... they won't qualify for a UK state pension if the don't register as unemployed.

[Muddy Boots]

They will if they pay their National Insurance stamps as though they are self employed. About 12 pounds a month.

[bournemouth_pilot]

Why are all pprune threads so negative? I thought this forum was for wannabe pilots - so why so many sceptics?

Yes, its a tough industry with very few jobs at the moment but there is nothing wrong with people working hard, following their dream. If you're friends are passionate about flying, and are able to maintain it (albeit from bank of mum and dad), then good for them - i have no doubt that their time will come to be flying as a career. The industry

Of course, it would be better to have something to fall back on to provide an income but going to university can create just as much debt as flying - so please dont be so hard on your friends.

Surely, if financially able, its better to pursue your goal of being a pilot first and then get a secondary job after? If its done the other way round the risk is you may not ever get round to that CPL....

[MartinCh]

BMH pilot,
speaking from experience of??
The OP touched situation/topic that isn't just about 'following your dream' blah blah stuff.

'Their time will come' Really? With such crap attitude to being active, working to cover own living cost, not having been forced to work hard/save towards their licences/ratings, not looking for casual jobs, improving their qualifications? Now that's pretty good joke.
How do you expect those to actually properly look for jobs if/once the upturn comes? Also, until then, as well?

Of course, it would be better to have something to fall back on to provide an income but going to university can create just as much debt as flying - so please dont be so hard on your friends.

Surely, if financially able, its better to pursue your goal of being a pilot first and then get a secondary job after? If its done the other way round the risk is you may not ever get round to that CPL....

Well, this kind of persons don't really bother in the first place. Also, the idea of back up education/experience is about having it when it hits the fan. Or after flight training without pilot job. Risking not 'getting round to do CPL'? What a load of :mad:

I wish my daddies had too much cash lying around so that I don't have to save, or later, after training, letting me to scratch my balls not working and living in their house..

How much, or how many years have you spent supporting yourself, saving for your training, improving your job prospects for 'plan B' times, BMH pilot?

That's the negative thing others replied about. Being passive, living off parents.
WAKE UP.

[dogmaster]

Of course, it would be better to have something to fall back on to provide an income but going to university can create just as much debt as flying - so please dont be so hard on your friends.you don't have to go to Uni, you can do a professional course, like nurse, police officer, build buildings,...


the chance to get a job in a hospital when young are much higher than getting a job in the aviation field. Parent have to be careful when they choose a job for their children, of course many want their son to be an airline pilots or professional footballer, and girls want become an actress,... but how many achieve their dream (often it's the dream of their parents and what is the cost if they don't?)

in a few years, many will say:"I have not been lucky, I don't know to do anything else in my life, my parents chose the wrong job for me..." .

what they will do then?, stay at home ? eat chips and watch scifi movies all day long?
Unshaved?, drunk? waking up at 12, bed at 0300?,...what kind of companies want a guy like that?

airlines usually ask for non-flying back ground experience, ...(they wanted see your professional degrees or Uni degree )?


if you are nice with your friends, tell them what's going on in this market.
don't tell them to follow their dreams.

personally, I have several degrees, I start to make lot of money when I was 22 by working 5 days and half and I was saving as much I can.
I start to fly as a hobby mainly the week end.

With enough money saved I went for the FAA route, then JAA conversion.
I sill have enough money saved. In fact my money grow up everyday with very good secure investment which will give me a very comfortable retirement.
I am not rich, but I live comfortably, I sleep well, eat well,I have no money problems and I don't have to rely on my parents.

I saved lot of cash by going modular.I worked for different companies after my training , included flight schools.

How did I achieve this so far?: I got a degree, and it helped me to get jobs in aviation. Without any degree, it would have been much harder for me to go into aviation.And the big extra bonus: I built my plan B.

[Ireland105]

Its BS indeed and I have seen it many times over. To those that dont come from the financially privalleged background, dont worry about them. They will piss about for years but in the end the parents will bail them out by setting them up in business - they know this, thats why they have a feckless attitude to life. The real losers are their followers that dont come from such wealth. They are really ******.

Listen - times have moved on. History has it that in the US you went to the airforce and served your time and than 5-10 years later moved over to commercial flying. Same the world over. In fairness to those guys, they had balls, good for them. In the UK, some airlines sponsored cadets, fair enough too. The concept was good, it supported honest folk that could not make it any other way.

....Buying your way to the top.....frankly go p**s off. That type of character will only drag standards down in the end - easy come easy go as they say. We cant have that.

[JLMF]

i´m 19, and i´ll get job before you, trust me ;)
to be young a problem? juass , good joke

[pitot_noob]

You know what... I'm young too. And i'm not going to get into the main discussion and have stayed out of it so far... but with the above post.. I couldn't stay quiet.

i´m 19, and i´ll get job before you, trust me
to be young a problem? juass , good joke

It's attitudes like yours that give the rest of us a really bad name, some of which, actually work our asses off to try and make this feasible, even if some of the above don't agree (I appreciate that everyone has their opinions).

Stop acting like an immature fool.
(And get your CPL / IR before you post things like that too.. a PPL, Class 1 and ATPL theory doesn't mean you can get a job yet.. :ok:)

[Mikehotel152]

When I'm sitting in a professional cockpit I don't give a rat's rear-end whether the other pilot was born with a silver spoon in their mouth or pulled themselves up from the gutter. If they do their job with professionalism, good-humour and consideration, I don't pass judgment.

But that's because I believe in a meritocracy. Sadly, few people actually do.

So, when I come across people who haven't been able to get a flying job in this recession, I look at three things. First, did they carefully research the state of the industry before they staked so much on an aviation career? Two, did they have a fall-back plan in case they couldn't get a job within a reasonable time frame? And three, have they left no stone unturned in their pursuit of their goal to become a commercial pilot?

If I get a sensible answer to all those questions, I have no criticism and they have all my sympathy because it's very tough to get a job in aviation at this time and a lot of very nice, talented people have had no luck whatsoever. I count my blessings on a daiy basis, but I can do so knowing I had a decent answer to all those questions.

If any one of those questions comes back in the negative, I struggle to hide my feelings of dispair and contempt. The modern 'I want' society is churning out too many people who believe they have 'rights' without responsibility; they subconsciously feel the world owes them a good living provided they jump through a few golden hoops.

'Tis not so, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

[JLMF]

you´re so funny actually, i can see in your eyes you are looking for job 10 years.. lol

[pitot_noob]

Oh dear.


Oh and thanks for your pm.. good luck with your job when you decide to get the qualifications.

job is waiting for me as soon as i finish, aven, i dont want to finish yetg, too young to start working, so, if it´s you the person who is scared about to be jobless after spending 70K, is not my problem, is yours, you know, always there are lucky persons, maybe you are not in the group

[goaround737]

Hmmm, Anyone else think Dogmaster sounds somewhat like a320rider who was booted off a few months ago?...

[flyndad]

Hey Dogmaster,
whats the problem here? I often wake up drunk and unshaven but still manage to keep the 8 hr rule. If my sweet Mother wants to pay for my training in the first place thats her lookout, who cares? I have just sent her out to get another bottle while I decide on some further training, how about a nice type rating???

[MartinCh]

goaround737 - don't think so. Unless the person discussed considerably improved his/her presentation, language and possibly personality.

[dogmaster]

I just try to understand what is happening in this market, what is happening in the head of parents who decide their children will not follow the "normal" route, but instead the integrated training "0 to hero" and the consequences I have seen so far with destroyed kids staying at home because they are unskilled for another profession...

[Superpilot]

Are there others out there who like me are actually making a killing* simply because they can't find a flying job? :}

*Modesty is not my finest point and money isn't everything.

[v6g]

Are there others out there who like me are actually making a killing* simply because they can't find a flying job?

Yes, there are.