Was 1940 really like this?

[Park82]

Hi,

Here at the RAF Benevolent Fund we’ve recently launched a campaign to bring the Battle of Britain alive for a new generation.

www.1940chronicle.com (http://www.1940chronicle.com/) is a new online 1940s style newspaper which breaks daily news of Britain at war from the same day 70 years ago, as though it’s happening in real time.

Interwoven with this are the stories of five fictional but historically accurate characters: a Hurricane Pilot, a Radar Operator, a Plane Mechanic, a Nurse and a Journalist. Their personal accounts of the Battle unfold in real time against the backdrop of the war through a series of blogs.

We would really like to know what Pprune readers think of this site. Is it historically accurate enough? Do the characters ring true? Please visit, explore and give us any comments you have here on the forum.

[clunckdriver]

Would love to see the site, but in Eastern Canada nothing comes up, hope we can partake in this soon!

[603DX]

I was a mere child in July 1940, having been born in April 1939, but lived throughout WW2 in Kent and have a number of vivid memories of the later years. The news item about the massive German guns on the French coast reaching Dover certainly rings true, Dover was badly bombarded by that artillery over several years. The Germans installed even larger guns with much increased range later in the war, and in June 1944 these were fired at Maidstone, the County Town, in order to create confusion and spread panic during the initial firings of the V1 flying bombs at London.

I clearly remember seeing the whole corner of a two-storey house at the junction of Hayle Road and Campbell Road, Maidstone, wrecked by one of these long-distance shells, with the bed hanging precariously from the upper floor and pictures askew on remaining two walls. In later years I learned that an unfortunate woman had been killed in the night by this shell hitting her house. The range must have been about 50 - 60 miles, so these were obviously exceptional guns.

My initial impression of the site is quite favourable, it seems reasonably authentic, though perhaps the pilots would not in fact have kept referring to Biggin Hill by its full name, I believe it was generally just called Biggin.

[26er]

Whilst not wishing to carp - but doing so nevertherless - professionals do not refer to aircraft or aeroplanes as "planes". The groundcrew at that time were most likely known as "fitter engines" or "fitter airframes".

[fijdor]

I am from Ontario as well ( Geraldton) and have no problem getting on the website.:)

JD

[Noyade]

new online 1940s style newspaper Just a thought, but maybe sprinkle your "newspaper" with ads and posters of the period? (British of course! :ok:)
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9637/asprob.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/asprob.jpg/)
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1457/postere.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/postere.jpg/)
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3769/pokandbeans.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/pokandbeans.jpg/)

[Brian Abraham]

professionals do not refer to aircraft or aeroplanes as "planes"A common notion, but incorrect, the term has been in use since WW1 and is still used today.

[onetrack]

The style of writing is not 1940's wartime style. The true style of that era was based on extensive censoring, and on encouraging a war-fearful population to support the cause.
Remember that a percentage of the population wasn't supportive of the war, they were just overwhelmed by the % that were, and the pressure needed to be kept up, on just how well the Allies were doing - when at times, the true position looked pretty hopeless.

The style of writing is a more truthful and direct 21st Century style, as compared to the ebullient, "what-ho, chaps" style of the early 1940's that glossed over the severe losses and hardship that were actually taking place. Few people of today realise that the civilian population in many places suffered nearly as much as those in the forces, and with little ability to defend themselves. Children sent away to safer areas with foster parents and groups, civilian deaths by the hundreds every week, severe rationing, destruction and homelessness, nightly bombings, the constant worry of invasion - these were all part of civilian life in that era.

I know that the newspaper has an RAF/military slant, but perhaps what is missing is the regular reports, often untruthful or slanted, of wins over the enemy, that were later proven to be untruthful or overstated - or losses played down, for fear of losing the populations support.

The newspapers of the day were the major communication between events, the people and the Govt, apart from radio, and the newspapers were eagerly sought for good news, which the Govt tried to make appear more often than it would have, if the whole truth was known.
Back then, there just wasn't the massive media and communications presence that we have today, and people went for days, sometimes even weeks, not knowing what was happening, as regards important events.

[Tankertrashnav]

A common notion, but incorrect, the term has been in use since WW1 and is still used today

Maybe so, Brian, but I'd still say that "aircraft" would be more authentic for the period. In Reach For the Sky (a dramatisation, admittedly) Bader is heard reprimanding an NCO for referring to aircraft as planes. Certainly during my own RAF service in the 60's and 70's it was always aircraft. In the same way nobody within the service ever referred to "the Raff", it was always spelled out.

[teeteringhead]

Exactly so TTN. On my first day of service (last century - won't say when ;)) I was told forcefully:

1. Planes are a carpenter's tool for flattening wood.

2. "Raff" is only ever said after "Riff". "Which you 'orrible lot will NOT be when I've finished with you!"

As to the oddity of air warfare 70 years ago, I was on an exercise a few years ago "down the hole" with a Colonel of the Royal Marines. In the small hours when not much was happening talk covered a vast variety of subjects.

Said Colonel's father had been a fighter pilot in Kent (can't recall if it was BofB or later), and he said the most remarkable thing was after a day's flying (and fighting and kiling one assumes) he would still sometimes manage to get home in time to put the kids to bed ..... an odd concept .....

[forget]

It may sound a little Biggles but ground crew up to the 60s still referred to aircraft as kites. Hard to believe I know.

[Noyade]

A common notion, but incorrect, the term has been in use since WW1 and is still used today. Well, that's what I always thought?!

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2627/colonials.jpg (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/colonials.jpg/)

[Centaurus]

In 1951 we sometimes called them "Crates".

[WHBM]

Mr WHBM Senior (Halifaxes and Dakotas :ok:, RAF only "for the duration") also always used to refer to these past steeds as "kites".

Accidents were "prangs" (as in "um ..... er ..... had a bit of a prang, sir").

[603DX]

The archetypal character who was always having "prangs", according to RAF folklore during WW2, was Pilot Officer Prune.

The similarity of this non-existent (but hopefully educational) clot of a pilot, who was constantly doing the wrong thing, to PPRuNe forums is not entirely a coincidence, I suspect!

[WHBM]

I might add that accidents where nobody was hurt but spectacular damage was done, often if there was some form of stupidity or comic element, were referred to with gusto, and recalled to juvenile me, as "Wizard Prangs" by those who had witnessed them, for 10,20 or 30 years afterwards in their periodic get-togethers.

Strangely, as they had all witnessed so many tragic events as well, I got the feeling it was a bit of a stress reliever, to laugh at them.

[Brian Abraham]

Accidents were "prangs"And also

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww142/JDCAVE/GelsenkirchenDec2944.jpg

The son notes "The term "prang" was used to characterise 13 of the operations entered in Dad's log book: "Fair Prang" presumably for mediocre performance; "Good Prang" for better than average performance, and for absolutely superlative performance, "Beautiful Prang"."

Tankertrashnav, you may well be correct as to RAF lexicography as used on the squadrons, however the word was used in printed matter, but not in RAF pilots notes from what I've seen. Common usage in US pilot notes though.

[Hipper]

I wondered if a prang often referred to a dodgy but ultimately safe landing?

[Captain Dart]

'Prang' referred to 'damage', and could be a noun or a verb; a 'good prang' would have meant 'better than average damage to the target'. You could 'prang a kite' (crash an aircraft) or, in 1950s and '60's Australia, your bike could be 'all pranged up' (not serviceable, or damaged).

What were the criteria for 'wizard prang', chaps?

[astir 8]

Interesting refrence to scarecrow burst in the log. Post war analysis seems to indicate that there were no scarecrow flak shells, only real exploding bombers.

Were "scarecrow" shells an ingenious figment of someone's imagination to help maintain aircrew morale or can anyone shed further light?

[Tankertrashnav]

Tankertrashnav, you may well be correct as to RAF lexicography as used on the squadrons, however the word was used in printed matter, but not in RAF pilots notes from what I've seen.


I take your point, my experience is mainly RAF. However when I was doing a PPL many years later my instructor, who had no military background, used to correct people in the clubroom when they talked about 'planes'

Re Scarecrow shells - Len Deighton brings this up in Bomber, with one of the crews noting what they think is one of these shells, but Deighton goes on to explain that there was no such thing. I am sure if I had been on Bomber Command I'd have clutched at any straw such as this to keep my morale up - brave men indeed!

[Lightning Mate]

Slang in aviation is always interesting.

In my day we called them "jets" and those who flew them were "mates".

However, I still admonish my students for using the term "plane".

As someone else has said, that is a tool used by carpenters.

Any fixed wing aircraft should be correctly referred to as an "aeroplane".

I'll get me coat....

[Park82]

Thanks a lot everybody for your comments, we take on board your point about "planes" - one of our own ex-Royal Air Force colleagues has reprimanded us for this as well! We will be careful to change this as we move forward.

Some fascinating history emerging here - the story about Maidstone, posters and Log Book extract, style of 1940s reporting etc.

If you want to share this with people following the campaign you can visit 1940chroncile on Facebook and post stories/ items like this there - 1940chronicle | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/1940chronicle/133784226647710?ref=ts)

Thanks again, it's incredibly useful to get all your comments.

[forget]

Park82, As all you've heard so far is (constructive) criticism here's a new slant - you're doing a cracking job. :D:D (So long as 'plane' goes.)

[Union Jack]

Noyade

Many thanks for the reminder about Bundles for Britain. When I first served with the RAN, I remember being put to the test by one of my petty officers, shortly after I arrived. He asked if I could stand where he could get a good look at me, then asked me to turn round, then asked if I would stand on a chair for a different view. I went along with this rigmarole that far on the basis that I had been briefed to jolly the natives along, rather than being too stiff upper lipped, but drew the line when he asked if I could stand on the desk for another view.:=

When I asked what this was all about, he explained how, as a small child in rural NSW, he was always being deprived of sweets, tinned fruit etc "because they're needed for the Bundles for Britain for the poor starving kids there", and he had just wanted to know whether it had been worthwhile! When I asked the obvious question, "And was it worthwhile?", he replied "I'll let you know, Sir"! When he left he base a few months later, I was foolish enough to ask again, to which he replied, "The jury's still out, Sir"!:uhoh:

Thank you, Petty Officer Gardner - I won't ask again ....:ok:

Jack

[Double Zero]

I happen to have had the honour of meeting or working with people who flew or worked with Bader; I wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire !

Probably a brave pilot, but a complete b***** otherwise.

I knew someone who as a child was evacuated from London to Wales, as he openly told me, he was keen to go - terrified of V1's.

When he was in mid 60's, I took him to Duxford and had him touch their V-1 on it's launch rail, then be photographed next to it giving a ''V-sign'; this seemed to finally lay many ghosts for him...

[WHBM]

Probably a brave pilot, but ...
Hmmm, seems to have been a common approach. Father came to the same conclusion having encountered comedy actor/pilot Jimmy Edwards (later Jimmy Edwards DFC by the way, after Arnhem).

I think it must have got to all the guys more than they wanted to show, actually.

[Noyade]

Probably a brave pilot, but a complete b***** otherwise.That reminded me of a passage in Leonard Mosley's book...

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4724/bader.jpg (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/bader.jpg/)

[Noyade]

One more. From my dad's wartime recognition exercise book. Down here "Pacific" is spelt "Pafic".

LOL :)

(RIP dad, I still miss you)

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/585/dadp.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/dadp.jpg/)

[Brian Abraham]

Re the usage of the term "planes". I asked an esteemed gentleman who flew with Bomber Command during those halcyon days of WWII and his verbatim reply is,
In 1940 I was 16 years old and when we witnessed the Battle of Britain we called them planes. However, when we at our operating squadron, we called them aircraft.

[Centaurus]

often if there was some form of stupidity or comic element, were referred to with gusto, and recalled to juvenile me, as "Wizard Prangs" by those who had witnessed them, for 10,20 or 30 years afterwards in their periodic get-togethers..

I am certain it was nothing more than "good show".
Ex: "I met this beautiful woman today".
Answer: Did you really? Oh - wizard prang, old boy".

It was all bit Biggles and Archy foppiness, and reading it now makes one want to laugh and call them stupid wankers..

Actually, while on that description. Over the years listening to some types being interviewed on the BBC, I notice some have an apparent speech impediment Ex: "Was he a good batsman?" Reply: Yes - he was vewwy vewwy good"

Or another example" "He is a fwightfully good batsman"
Can someone tell me is that a true speech defect or is it an affectation? My old auntie came from Yorkshire and spoke with what I presumed (when I was 7 years old) a normal accent.

But when a neighbour gave me a gift she said "Centaurus my boy - now go and thank the vicar vewwy vewwy much...." And I thought at the time what a funny way of talking and 70 years later I still wonder about that.


Other than that, I only ever heard this apparent affectation from British actor types or Harris Tweed wearers with plummy Oxford accents. Never heard it used by normal types. Certainly never heard it with English language speakers around the world.

[Tankertrashnav]

Other than that, I only ever heard this apparent affectation from British actor types or Harris Tweed wearers with plummy Oxford accents. Never heard it used by normal types


Presumably down there in the Antipodes you've been spared Jonathan Woss (sorry Ross). Google him and find a clip to listen to and you'll hear for yourself.

Harris Tweed wearer with a plummy Oxford he certainly ain't, although I admit I wouldn't call him a normal type!

[Mechta]

The article in todays 1940 Chronicle about the millionaire MP donating £100,000 to buy 16 Spitfires ends sugggesting if everyone gave JUST £5... That was a fair bit of money then, so I doubt the word 'just' would have been used in front of it. Mechta Senior often tells me how Tangmere's Furys (biplanes) were sold off at £5 each... Oh for a time machine!

Anyway, good to see the authors are inviting 'those who were there' to constructively criticise, I'm sure Mechta Senior will have plenty to add having been a schoolboy/firewatcher/Air Cadet through it all.

With regard to the bit about accents, my mother is a twin, and her twin sister emigrated to Canada in the mid 1950's. My aunt has a far more 'plummy' accent (not Canadian) than my mother does, so could it be that accents evolve unless one is displaced to somewhere where the accent is very different?

The question I have always wondered on terminology is when 'Archie' became 'Ack-Ack' and when 'Ack-Ack' became 'Triple A'?

[LowNSlow]

Archie - WW1 RFC slang for German anti-aircraft fire

Ack-Ack - WW2 British slang for British anti-aircraft fire using the phonetic alphabet of the time. British WW2 slang for German anti-aircraft fire was Flak

Triple AAA - American slang for all anti-aircraft-artillery post WW2

[Tankertrashnav]

Actually Flak was the term used by the Germans themselves, from Fliegerabwehrkanone. Certainly the word passed into English usage pretty rapidly.

Talking about "ack" etc does anyone know the complete phonetic alphabet of the period. I always thought that A was "able", so when did that replace "ack"?

[kevmusic]

TTN - echo that request. Phonetic alphabet history could make a book in itself, methinks.

[PPRuNe Pop]

To be honest I didn't place them like this, it was simply a pooter 'idea.' But you can see word as it was from WWI on. I seem to remember we changed to NATO standard at midnight on ??/??/1955 during a big exercise in Norfolk. The THIRD word in turn is used today.


AFFIRM


ABLE


ALPHA


BAKER


BAKER


BRAVO


CAST


CHARLIE


CHARLIE


DOG


DOG


DELTA


EASY


EASY


ECHO


FOX


FOX


FOXTROT


GEORGE


GEORGE


GOLF


HYPO


HOW


HOTEL


INT


ITEM


INDIA


JIG


JIG


JULIET


KING


KING


KILO


LOVE


LOVE


LIMA


MIKE


MIKE


MIKE


NEGAT


NAN


NOVEMBER


OPTION


OBOE


OSCAR


PREP


PETER


PAPA


QUEEN


QUEEN


QUEBEC


ROGER


ROGER


ROMEO


SAD


SUGAR


SIERRA


TARE


TARE


TANGO


UNIT


UNCLE


UNIFORM


VICTOR


VICTOR


VICTOR


WILLIAM


WILLIAM


WHISKEY


X-RAY


X-RAY


X-RAY


YOKE


YOKE


YANKEE


ZEBRA


ZEBRA


ZULU

[WHBM]

More here :

ICAO spelling alphabet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICAO_spelling_alphabet)

I have always wondered who was the dance enthusiast at NATO when the alphabet was being assembled !

[Dengue_Dude]

I don't see the point in getting excited about terminology - especially archaic.

I mean, I still refer to the "RAFF" as an air force . . .

Err . . . I think I just heard the air raid siren . . . just need to pop away and hide chaps, back soon . . .

[Bluey Snuttzov]

Re Scarecrow shells - Len Deighton brings this up in Bomber, with one of the crews noting what they think is one of these shells, but Deighton goes on to explain that there was no such thing.Leo McKinstry - Lancaster - The Second World War's Greatest Bomber pp169
This was confirmed after the war by interviews with Luftwaffe chiefs and German battery commanders I am sure if I had been on Bomber Command I'd have clutched at any straw such as this to keep my morale up - brave men indeed!Again from Lancaster
The real confidence trick was perpetrated by the men of the RAF. Crews were desperately trying to find reassurance that the skies were not as dangerous as they appeared, while the Air Ministry and senior officers were willing to collude with this self-deception to keep up morale

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks PPrunePop and WHBM (or may I call you Whiskey for short?) - just what I was looking for. The changeover to the NATO alphabet may have taken place in 1955 but the old one lingered on for years. Even in the late 60's, the Consol transmitter at Bush Mills which had the ident MWN was still referred to as Mike Willy Nan.


I mean, I still refer to the "RAFF" as an air force . . .



Tut, tut, Dengue_Dude, well may you go and hide :=

[Dengue_Dude]

. . . can I come out now?

And I thought 'wizard prang' was a great party at Hogwarts . . .

Oops, there's that siren again.

My dad was a WOP/AG on Blenheims in WWII, he used the word 'kites' for the aircraft, never noticed him say 'prang' though except in relation to crashes.

[Park82]

Thanks everyone for this discussion and your comments on 1940chonicle -

Dengue_Dude - would be interested to know what your dad thought of the Blenheim. One of the people the RAFBF has helped, Wing Commander Roger Morewood, flew Blenheims at the time of the Battle of Britain and was not a fan of the aircraft.

Interesting side article in today's front page about American claims of a British secret weapon - have any Pprune readers ever heard of these claims? 1940 Chronicle (http://www.1940chronicle.com/)

[Noyade]

American newspapers yesterday reported that Britain has a ‘new and terrifying weapon’ in the fight against the German aerial menace: a ‘movable barrage of steel wire.’
The American papers claim that the secret weapon is shot up from rocket guns based on boats and on land. It ensnares enemy planes.
Just a guess...

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/70/guessb.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/guessb.jpg/)

[Park82]

Interesting!
Noyade where did you find this info?
www.1940chronicle.com (http://www.1940chronicle.com) will soon have real video footage from 1940 to accompany some of its news stories. Do keep visiting and share your thoughts on this forum or on the 1940chronicle facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/1940chronicle/133784226647710?ref=ts)

[Noyade]

From a 'not very secret any more' booklet mate. :ok:

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8969/secret1170496.jpg (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/secret1170496.jpg/)

[Park82]

Hi everyone,

To mark Battle of Britain day we're giving people the opportunity to write a thankyou message to the RAF on the 1940chronicle site -

Visit http://www.1940chronicle.com/day-of-action/ (http://www.1940chronicle.com/day-of-action/) to write your message - see right hand side of the page: 'Show them we are proud'.

The site will be open until Monday 20th.

Thanks!

[Rollingthunder]

Very interesting site Park82. Thx.

[Exnomad]

I believe there was a rocket propelled wire defice used by merchant ships against low flying aircraft. Unfortunately I cannot find the book describing it. It was developed by the department employing Nevil Shute amongst others to deveop low cost unconventional weapons.