XP Disk Clone/Acronis True Image

[BOAC]

I would like to clone my 80gb IDE OS drive to a 160GB SATA drive. Is this possible or will I have problems booting due to HAL issues?

[Saab Dastard]

Is indeed possible, but you might need to research it a bit - google clone ide sata.

e.g. How to clone IDE to a SATA for boot drive - Hard-Disks - Storage (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/245557-14-clone-sata-boot-drive)

SD

[BOAC]

Thanks SD - the post there by 'neilslade' looks particularly useful. I was assuming that if I installed the new SATA and made it bootable/partitioned, the potential HAL problem after cloning would be solved, but 'ns' reckons I need to install a new XP on the SATA first? I guess I could just put a bigger IDE in and clone but that seems a retrograde step.

Any readers actually done this?

[Feline]

FWIW - Have been having some problems with a Dell Optiplex 745. Plugged in the USB disk which had the most recent image on it, told Acronis to Restore - and did just what was written on the box (and in less time than it took to create the image in the first place).
Switched system off and re-started - and there everything was.
Impressive - first time I've actually had to do a recovery for real.

Now - admit this doesn't quite answer the question asked (80Gb to 160Gb hard disks). But it could be worthwhile just to try and see what happens.

From the manual, it certainly looks as though what you want is possible. From the manual:

6.3.7 Changing the restored partition file system
Though seldom required, you can change the partition file system during its restoration.
Acronis True Image Home can make the following file system conversions: FAT 16 -> FAT
32, Ext2 -> Ext3. For partitions with other native file systems this option is not available.
Let’s say you want to restore a partition from an old, low-capacity FAT16 disk to a newer
disk. FAT16 would not be effective and might not even be available for the high-capacity
hard disk. That's because FAT16 supports partitions up to 4GB, so you will not be able to
restore a 4GB FAT16 partition to a partition that exceeds that limit without changing the file
system. It would make sense here to change the file system from FAT16 to FAT32.
However, keep in mind that not all operating systems support FAT32. MS-DOS, Windows 95
and Windows NT 3.x, 4.x do not support it and will not be operable after you restore a
partition and change its file system. These can be normally restored on a FAT16 partition
only.
6.3.8 Changing the restored partition size and location
You can resize and relocate a partition by dragging it or its borders with a mouse on the
horizontal bar on the screen or by entering corresponding values into the appropriate fields.
Using this feature, you can redistribute the disk space among partitions being restored. In
this case, you will have to restore the partition to be reduced first.
These changes might be useful if you are to copy your hard disk to a new high-capacity one
by creating its image and restoring it to a new disk with larger partitions.

If you need any more information, drop me a PM. I rather think you can actually download the entire Acronis manual from their web site.

Good Luck!

[Frelon]

The (250gb) hard disk on my grandson's newish Dell was indicating that it was about to die (appropriate messages on boot up).

Called Dell who said they would replace it under warranty and install Windows Vista OS on the disk, and nothing more.....

I asked if I could keep the disk to try to back up the data, they said I could have it for a week after the new one was installed.

Bought copy of Acronis TI 2010 online and new 320gb hard drive (eBay).

Put new hard disk in PC and attached old disk via USB and HD Caddy. Fired up PC with Acronis Boot Disc in CD, followed the instructions and cloned old disc to new disc (took 24 hours or so).

Result is that the PC now boots up with no problems on a 320gb disc with all his old stuff (including Flight Simulator and other software). We have a new 250gb disc in case of emergency from Dell, and a suspect disc still awaiting collection by Dell!!

Well done Acronis.

[Saab Dastard]

cloned old disc to new disc (took 24 hours or so).

That is a surprisingly long time!

I recently used Ghost to clone an 80 GB Win XP pro system disk to a new 160GB disk (both IDE) - took all of 35 minutes.

Total time from opening the case to closing it and firing up with the new disk was a shade over one hour. That was an instance of everything just working like it should - which seems to be the exception rather than the norm with PCs! :}

SD

[BOAC]

Having read Saab's link and a dozen others it appears that it is very easy to trip up as the source disk is IDE so I will be 'missing' the SATA drivers. Does that make sense? So, this is my plan - I'm sure you can tear it apart:)

I have one SATA drive already, just storage at the moment, so not bootable
I will install the new SATA drive
I will load a fresh Windows XP on it and check it boots. SATA drivers are on the mobo CD.
I will then clone the IDE to the SATA

By my reckoning, that should give me a bootable cloned SATA drive?

There is talk of 'sysprep' and other obscure stuff, but will my 'simple' solution work?

[Saab Dastard]

BOAC,

AFAIK, a disk clone is a block-by-block copy of one disk to another. Nothing on the target disk will be maintained across the process, including the MBR.

I know that my Ghost 7.5 boot media is able to "see" a SATA disk as a target, so that shouldn't be an issue.

So assuming you can transfer the image from the IDE to the SATA disk, you might then try to run a Windows install / repair to add the SATA drivers.

Another approach would be to add the SATA disk into your existing windows installation, so that your existing C: drive will have the SATA drivers installed when you clone it.

Since the process is non-destructive, why not just start trying it? Play around until you get it to work, then tell us how you did it (with a smug grin).

BTW, Sysprep is only useful when you want to make multiple copies of the same system image as part of a deployment to multiple PCs. It effectively "de-personalises" the source prior to imaging, allowing a mini-setup to run post-distribution when the cloned PCs are booted, where system name and other unique details (and SIDs) can be added. You certainly don't need it in your situation.

SD

[BOAC]

Tks for the advice on sysprep.Another approach would be to add the SATA disk into your existing windows installation, so that your existing C: drive will have the SATA drivers installed when you clone it. - that is what I thought I was proposing or have I missed something?

I look forward to coming back with smug grin :hmm:(PS Haven't bought the new drive yet.....)

[Saab Dastard]

BOAC,

I will install the new SATA drive
I will load a fresh Windows XP on it and check it boots.

I assumed you meant load Windows onto the SATA disk.

I am suggesting that you leave your existing IDE disk in place, and add a SATA disk to your existing system (so now you have both IDE and SATA at the same time) to have the SATA drivers on the IDE disk before making the clone.

SD

[BOAC]

Aye, but the drivers are already there since I am running a SATA but not as a boot.drive. Well out of my depth now but several of the Google links suggest a pre-install on the disk to be cloned and check it boots to eliminate one possible problem. No-one seems to know 100% of the mechanism for IDE to SATA, and that is the problem.

[IO540]

I don't think you can clone an IDE HD to a SATA one because the windoze installation will not have the SATA driver on it.

This is why when installing e.g. winXP on a SATA HD, one needs to insert a 3.5" diskette with the SATA drivers on it.

Most motherboard which have on-board SATA drivers, and come with a driver CD, have a directory on the CD called something like "floppy" and this is the stuff you copy to a formatted 3.5" diskette.

However I think that if you install the SATA drivers into your existing windoze (IDE HD) installation, windoze will use them when it wakes up sitting on the SATA HD. I did this at work recently, replacing a SCSI HD with a SATA one.

The problem is that you won't know you have done this right until you have cloned the HD :)

[BOAC]

IO - as per #7 I have a SATA already installed but running as storage only. Will this affect the drivers I need or does installing the drivers from the mobo CD to get the storage SATA to work do the lot?

[Rushed Approach]

If you ask me attempting to clone an IDE drive to a SATA drive is mad.

Whilst you might get it to work, why would you want to? You'd be much better off partitioning the SATA drive into separate data and OS partitions, copying all your data to the data partition from the IDE and then reinstalling the OS in the OS partition (newly fully formatted, not quick formatted) of the SATA after leaving the IDE drive well out of it (you can always add it back in later for data backup). You then have a fresh copy of the OS that has "seen" the SATA drive as it installs and therefore has the correct drivers and registry settings.

Yes you will have to reinstall your programs and drivers, but you will end up with a much stabler and faster running system than trying to clone on old HD to a new one IMHO.

[IO540]

Yes you will have to reinstall your programs and driverswhich could be a huge job. Nowadays, installing windoze, its updates, and a load of apps can easily take 2 days. I have done it many times. Built a new PC week ago, at the office; took a few days to get everything from the old one transferred and working (using a 128GB SSD, BTW, lightning fast).

as per #7 I have a SATA already installed but running as storage only. Will this affect the drivers I need or does installing the drivers from the mobo CD to get the storage SATA to work do the lot? I saw that, but I don't know. I think it depends on the motherboard SATA controller. ISTM that when one first connects a SATA drive, the SATA controller presents it as an IDE drive, which windoze can access using its built-in drivers (which is why there is never any F6+diskette business if installing windoze on an IDE drive). This is how windoze initially starts up when you are doing a fresh install, and it may be how it may be accessing a second (non-boot) drive. But really I could be wrong.

What kind of BIOS settings do you see for the SATA controller? If you see something like "compatibility mode" (which I get on my Thinkpad, for example) that will probably be an IDE-lookalike mode.

If you look at Properties and Driver for the SATA HD, what driver do you see there? Is it the M$ one, or is it the SATA controller vendor's one? Having said that, I have just looked at the Driver for the a.m. SATA SSD (which is definitely running via a 3rd party SATA driver) and it shows a 2001 M$ driver.... :ugh:

Edit: the other day I cloned an IDE drive to a SATA one (purely to speed up one old and awfully slow machine) with the latter on an Adaptec SATA/PCI controller. Prior to doing this, I installed the Adaptec drivers (off their CD) on the windoze installation. Then I closed the HD with Trueimage, pulled out the old HD, set the BIOS to boot off the SATA controller, and off it went.

[BOAC]

To close this thread off and 'back up' IO's post - I finally plucked up the courage and bought a new SATA 160GB. I am now fully 'cloned' and booting off that drive.

Since there appears to be a bit of 'confusion' around in Google I thought I would document the process in case anyone else is unsure.

1) New SATA added to existing multi-boot mobo which has 1 SATA already (SATA drivers had previously been installed from mobo CD)
2) OS Disk cloned to new SATA
3) Now the fun starts - of course it will not boot. At this point, out came the very best bit of systems/diagnostic software I have ever had was used - Hiren's Boot CD, transferred to a bootable USB stick. The beauty of this is that as one who is known to be deficient in command line programming, I was able to use its inbuilt 'mini-XP' to open my machine in an XP GUI. Thus I was able to use Disk Manager/Partition Magic etc on my existing drives and see exactly what needed to be changed in boot.ini.
4) Change done, and it re-boots normally and re-aligns the drive letters.
5) Tentative, nervous 'disable' old system drive
6) Here I am.:ok: As far as I can see all is functioning.

Now I have a spare 80GB IDE - time for W7.................?

[Saab Dastard]

BOAC,

Thanks for writing this up. Glad it is working.

What did you have to change in boot.ini? Was that the only change you had to make?

Cheers

SD

[BOAC]

Yes - the call to the Windows partition obviously changed and once that was sorted 'you'd never have known':) Initially the partition allocation ( I have a few.....!) looked haywire in the MiniXP Disk manager - letters all over the place, and I had to look at the folder contents to establish the OS boot partition required - but once boot.ini was sorted and I rebooted successfully it all settled down. Is the HAL rewritten at this point? (asked in blissful ignorance:))

[Rushed Approach]

I still think it's daft.

The OS "thinks" it is on an IDE drive, so any OS machine level code it has that would have taken advantage of the SATA drive will be disabled. Likewise any programs you are running that have I/O routines that control the hardware directly (rather than using the OS's) may either not work or may run slower than they would have done had they been installed "seeing" the SATA drive was there.

The machine may well boot apparently correctly, but you may be missing out on the enhancements (e.g. speed) that SATA potentally gives the OS and your programs.

For the sake of a few hours spent reinstalling the programs you still use, you gain a much slicker setup with all the extraneous programs, spyware, etc you don't need cleared out and now have your software stored in contiguous and hence faster to read sectors. If your old IDE drive had bad sectors by cloning it you just build the bad sector map workarounds the old drive used into your new one unnecessarily, and if it does have errors, you clone these too.

[BOAC]

PPRunePop kindly reminded me of an excellent freeware version of 'XXCLONE' which, apart from some nice 'bells and whistles', has the advantage over my existing Paragon and Acronis that it will back up an individual partition rather than a whole drive.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Is the HAL rewritten at this point? (asked in blissful ignorance)

If it's the same machine, and you purely changed the boot.ini, then the HAL will essentially be the same. It's unrelated to the boot.ini.

The HAL is "rewritten" to a greater or lesser extent whenever you plug in any plug & pray device anyway. It's not necessarily a singular entity anyway, more a collection of device drivers written with standard interfaces. :ok:

I still think it's daft.

The OS "thinks" it is on an IDE drive

No it doesn't. PnP deals with that on first boot (if it actually needs to).

[BOAC]

Thanks MB.

Forgot to add the other advantage of XXClone is that it writes the files contiguously = defrag.